alphason

Looks like that to me to, But I would guess you need to determine who has first taxing rights? As it first says may be taxed by Thailand, then goes on to say may be taxed in Canada up to 15%, I would maybe guess Thailand has the first shot, then Canada can charge the difference up to 15%. But wouldn't the DTA still prevent double taxation? Canada giving a credit for whatever was paid in Thailand leaving the difference if any due to Canada up to the limit 15%. ???

From my research and advice about the UK Thai DTA, I am informed that the term "may be taxed" actually provides exclusive taxing rights only to that country. This is the intended legal meaning of the phrase. If the property is located in Canada then only Canada has taxing rights.

I'm in a very similar position, spent a lot of time trying to find answers, read a lot and even HMRC can't really tell me, The most credible thing I have found is from Sherrings https://sherrings.com/capital-gains-personal-income-tax-thailand.html I contacted them to confirm and they told me this was correct under the UK / Thailand double tax agreement immovable property in the UK is subject to the Capital Gains Tax legislation in the UK, and not subject to Thailand's tax. For a resident of Thailand deriving capital gains income from a source outside of Thailand and bringing it into Thailand**. Personal income tax on the amount of capital gains income (the amount of the proceeds exceeding the costs of the investment). **not including capital gains from immovable property which most double tax agreements prescribe the tax rights for the country in which the immovable property is situated. This is discussed in a few of my earlier posts before if you look. I am hoping this is correct from Sherrings they should be well qualified to answer this, trouble is no one would want to be the first to try I think the other option as rules stand is to be non Thai tax resident for the year the gain is remitted to Thailand. Or IF the rules change to worldwide in the year the property is sold in the UK.

duplicate

But we don't have to file a joint return though, if I bring in an amount under the threshold? Easier to keep things as they are for now. My wife has always filed a single return. I have filed returns before in just my name to get savings interest back but not for a couple of years sice my main bank stopped deducting the interest.

I had seen that people were saying the filing threshold was more than this 210K Thb? My wife works and does a single tax return (just for her employment but files to get some back for her parents and insurance) not a married tax return. So in this is the case is the filing threshold 60K for me? (I was working it being 60K+150K (I'm under 60)). I have purposely not sent much money over this year since I learned about these changes, so far this year I have sent over to myself very little and direct to my wife little as gifts, just to see how things pan out.

Thanks, I shouldn't have used that original quote, Q5 is about foreign source assessable income in general and rightly says it's not taxed in Thailand when not a tax resident. I'm referring to, the gain from sale of immovable property situated outside Thailand for a Thai tax resident is only assessable in the country where the immovable property is located, as per Sherrings website https://sherrings.com/capital-gains-personal-income-tax-thailand.html (This has been confirmed to me as correct by Sherrings in the case of UK property not subject to Thai tax)

Thanks, Where is this Sherrings Q&A thats referred to? According to Sherrings Thailand Capital Gains Income Personal Tax - SHERRINGS For a resident of Thailand deriving capital gains income from a source outside of Thailand and bringing it into Thailand**. Personal income tax on the amount of capital gains income (the amount of the proceeds exceeding the costs of the investment). **not including capital gains from immovable property which most double tax agreements prescribe the tax rights for the country in which the immovable property is situated. and also List of assessable (taxable) income Thailand Personal Tax Assessable Income - SHERRINGS (5) Income derived from rental of 1. Land, buildings, house (8) Other income includes income derived from 1. Transfers of immovable property in Thailand. Of the 30ish types of income listed this was only one that says 'In Thailand'. I have mentioned this another topic, but here seems busier. Sherrings also confirmed this was correct under the UK / Thailand double tax agreement immovable property in the UK is subject to the Capital Gains Tax legislation in the UK, and not subject to Thailand's tax.

This could be it, explains why its so hard find information freely. And I'm not sure how qualified some of these online experts actually are. If we paid for tax consultations we could still end up with two differing views. At the moment I am clinging to what Sherrings told me, he answered clearly and did not try to sell me anything even I asked what they might charge to handle the Thai side of things when it came to selling UK property.

Expat Tax Thailand, anyone tried the free consultation? The Tax Director from Sherrings seems very well qualified and experienced from the website, I'd just like to hear it from more sources.

Yes it makes the whole thing unclear. Keep looking and reading more articles mostly from experts who clearly aren't, the more I read the more confused I become. I did find a useful list of assessable Income, section 40 of the revenue code, it lists all the types of income that are assessable including: (5) Income derived from rental of 1. Land, buildings, house (8) Other income includes income derived from 1. Transfers of immovable property in Thailand. What I found interesting is for the whole list of 30ish types of income this was only one that said 'In Thailand' like it excludes property outside of Thailand? Its worth a read of the Sherrings website. Maybe foreign rental income is taxable, less 30% expenses without proof or actual expenses with proof - I don't know what is allowed as expenses, agent fees, mortgage interest, maintenance, insurance? This could be over 30% if allowed. If tax is due on the gain from sale of foreign property are there allowances over the purchase price, for the time you may have lived in the property (equiv to PRR in UK), costs of buying/selling, mortgage interest fees? When would Thailand count the gain from, (in UK its from when the law changed April 2015), gain from Jan 2024 when it became taxable in Thailand? So many questions and hard to find answers. Maybe Sherrings again. I did contact another tax adviser who asked for 12kish THB to detail how the DTA would override Thai tax laws. Hoping it becomes clearer soon, no one want to be the guinea pig without having the facts first.

Yes 18%/24% CGT in UK, but that could be 5-35% in Thailand as PIT, 25% Band 1mTHB is only £21K ish 30% band 2-5MTHB £42K, 35% band 5MTHB £105K. And UK non residents are only taxed on gain from April 2015. I would feel happier to get more confirmation also, there is so much contradictory information and guess work. I dont expect there is anyone at HMRC or Thai RD who would be able to interpret the DTA, but This Tax Director at Sherrings should be a reliable resource though if you look at the website. Maybe the way is consult someone like this as a group.

Thats what I have been told, see above reply

I've been looking into the same thing I saw an article on Sherrings website regarding CGT on sale of a UK rented property but the wording used is the same 'may be taxed' ... "(1) Capital gains from the alienation of immovable property, as defined in paragraph (2) Article 7, may be taxed in the Contracting State in which such property is situated." So I contacted Sherrings, and the International Tax Director confirmed to me this would not be subject to Thailand Tax law. He said regarding Article 14, paragraph 1, of UK Thai DTA. The words "may be taxed" do not have the usual laymans meaning, instead the legal meaning of these words is that because the UK's tax law has Capital Gains Tax legislation, then the immovable property in the UK is subject to the Capital Gains Tax legislation in the UK, and not subject to Thailand's tax law.

I would think he does, this is the only person that seemed to answer the question and explain why. I thought a big company like this wouldn't be so helpful to an individual so I was impressed with the quick response from Sherrings.

Thats what I thought from reading the word "may" but, I have been in contact with Sherrings, and the International Tax Director confirmed to me this would not be subject to Thailand Tax law. He said regarding Article 14, paragraph 1, of UK Thai DTA. The words "may be taxed" do not have the usual laymans meaning, instead the legal meaning of these words is that because the UK's tax law has Capital Gains Tax legislation, then the immovable property in the UK is subject to the Capital Gains Tax legislation in the UK, and not subject to Thailand's tax law.

Thanks, maybe should have sold earlier also. UK CGT on property is 18%or24%, Thailand PIT could be as high as 35%. (£45k 30%, £110k 35%). How do they calculate gain, from when. Also if you owned the property before April 2015, as a UK non resident you can rebase the valuation to April 2015, so taxed only on gain from April 2015.

I've been struggling to find out about this, but from found this on Sherrings Thai tax pages... Taxation of Capital Gains Income. Specific types of assessable (taxable) income, for a resident of Thailand* is taxed as follows: * A resident is a person in Thailand for 180 days or more in a year For a resident of Thailand deriving capital gains income from a source outside of Thailand and bringing it into Thailand**. Personal income tax on the amount of capital gains income (the amount of the proceeds exceeding the costs of the investment). **not including capital gains from immovable property which most double tax agreements prescribe the tax rights for the country in which the immovable property is situated. Is this saying the UK Thai DTA prevents Thailand charging CGT/PIT on the sale of a property in the UK ??

I found this on Sherrings Thai tax pages... Taxation of Capital Gains Income. Specific types of assessable (taxable) income, for a resident of Thailand* is taxed as follows: * A resident is a person in Thailand for 180 days or more in a year For a resident of Thailand deriving capital gains income from a source outside of Thailand and bringing it into Thailand**. Personal income tax on the amount of capital gains income (the amount of the proceeds exceeding the costs of the investment). **not including capital gains from immovable property which most double tax agreements prescribe the tax rights for the country in which the immovable property is situated. Is this saying the UK Thai DTA prevents Thailand charging CGT/PIT on the sale of a property in the UK ??

This is the issue for many. If income in the UK in under the UK threshold of 12,570GBP you pay no UK tax, on 12,570GBP (around 565K baht) as an example tax is around 15% in Thailand (less some allowances). Will Thailand look at your income, or your assessable income stated by HMRC (income less deductions, used to calculate your tax). UK CGT on property is 18%/24%, Here there is no CGT so I think you pay tax on that at normal income tax rates (not 100% sure ??). So for example a UK property with a gain of around 100,000GBP would pay 24% tax in UK, but 35% in Thailand. (possibly??)

CGT on Sale of UK Property. If a UK property is rented out, I am looking at what if any taxes may be due in Thailand in the future. UK Nonresidents did not have to pay CGT in the past, but that changed. There is now an option to calculate gain from purchase date or rebased to 5 April 2015 (when the rules changed). So UK CGT is only payable on the gain from April 2015 until disposal. Assuming a Thai tax resident at disposal, it looks like there is no CGT in Thailand it is just taxed as income, is that right? Presuming tax would be due in Thailand for the difference between whatever is taxed CGT in the UK (18%/24%) and whatever is due in Thailand (5-35%?) - (assuming the money is remitted into Thailand, or Thailand decides to tax worldwide income). How would Thailand calculate the gain, will they accept the gain that the UK HMRC says I have made which is the gain after they rebase to April 2015, less allowable expenses and the CGT exempt amount? Or would Thailand use the original purchase price and calculate the gain at disposal, are there any allowable deductions given by the Thai system? Very confusing!

Looks to me like you are not liable for Thai tax until you bring in over 210,000THB or possibly more? Personal Allowance 60,000 (+ 60,000 if your spouse is not working and doesn't submit a tax return) (+190,000 if you are over 65 years) (+30,000 up to 3x if you have kids in education and your spouse not already claiming) (+ up to 25,000 for health insurance) ++ then the first 0 - 150,000 THB is charged 0% Tax band. So taxed only on what you bring in over at least 210,000THB? Right? A much lower personal allowance though than some other countries, UK allows 12,570GBP (550,000THB ish). On the UK SA302 annual tax calculation it shows 'Total Income Received', then it takes off allowances and shows 'Total Income', depending on which of these figures Thailand uses will make all the difference.

I think the reporter and the applicant are one and the same person, or its the foreigner with a Thai employee to help? from the article... "the foreigner, who works in local media". Maybe the IO is not a fan of the media outlet he works for "Col Thanet said It's back to the question of what job he [the foreigner] does... It is case by case"

I did marriage extension last month (still under consideration), on the day I went there was a ceremony outside as someone new had just arrived that day. I knew beforehand that there were new photo requirements from the volunteers, an extra photo in bedroom and kitchen and the front house pic should be one close up so the house number is visible and one wider shot full body. The video call was the same as we did last year, the IO showed me on his phone what he needed and its just recreating the photos you have supplied, not really a walkthrough. They take a screen shot from the video call with the small window of the IO in the photo - in lieu of a home visit (only had home visit once on the first extension) takes around 2 minutes no trouble at all. Polite and friendly IO There was no mention of Chanote, just the usual house owners house book, id, rental agreement. He did pay more attention than usual to the documents, he noted our rent agreement was drawn up 10 years ago and had no end date, he accepted it as have done other times but said it would be better if it said unlimited or no expiry date on it.

Seems to have all come back to normal in last hour or so. I've done nothing new so it must have been TOT even though they said everything was Ok.