oldcpu

5 hours ago, The Fugitive said:

My concern would be that if an annual medical indicated an increased risk of a serious disease (even though you had not actually developed the disease) the insurance company might decline to accept renewal of your policy.  

I think for an individual going for Health Insurance, that is a valid concern if forced to change insurance companies.  I suspect thou there is a good possibility that the existing insurance company would still renew one's policy, BUT they MIGHT put a new clause that a new 'precondition' will not be covered.  I am not 100% certain that would happen, as the pre-condition developed while one was under that Health Insurance company's coverage , but I guess such is possible.  Someone who knows more about Health Insurance than myself would need to chime and and confirm that such is a BIG and VALID concern.  It could very well be.

Also whether or not a developing pre-condition creates a Health Insurance issue (with ones finances, or one's Visa approval (if one has a Visa requiring health insurance)) is not something I know.

In my case there is no issue if I were to develop a pre-condition, as my insurance is part of a group package of possibly more than 1,000 people, and I have been on this insurance plan for over 20 years.  I had no preconditions at the start over 20-year ago (nor since), so anything that develops now, that insurance company is obligated to cover (if they want to keep their +1,000 person contract).

The biggest thing I have noted - as I mentioned, is the Thailand private hospitals, after a medical, will come up with all sorts of recommendations of extra examinations and tests so to make more money for the hospital.  One needs to make a good assessment as to whether such recommendations are really necessary (ie go for a second opinion where possible) - or if one's insurance company covers it all and one is not worried about a renewal with the Insurance company, then I suppose one could go for the Thailand hospitals' possibly unnecessary recommendations.

My Thai wife and I went to MedPark at the end of May this year.  She went for a routine (once every 5 years) colonoscopy, and I went for a routine annual medical examination. 

The cost for both were significantly more expensive than what we would pay for similar procedures in a private hospital in Phuket.  But my wife was very curious about the hospital, and my excellent Health Insurance covers the extra expense, so we were only out of pocket the amount for the travel and the accommodations for a number of nights in Bangkok.  I say a 'number of nights' as my wife used this opportunity to visit highschool  & university friends (from decades ago) and also to visit relatives in Bangkok - plus do some shopping in Bangkok.

MedPark is very luxurious.  Very comfortable waiting areas with wifi in the hospital.  The doctors appeared competent from what I could experience, but then at age 70 I am fortunate to still be very healthy.   My wife was satisfied with their (MedPark's) colonoscopy procedure.

My wife and I have been to Bummrungrad many years back for medicals, and the MedPark expensive cost is comparable to Bummrungrad's costs (maybe MedPark is even more expensive).  My wife has 3 Thai doctor's in the family:  a brother-in-law, a niece, and a nephew (who don't work in Bangkok). She was told that MedPark was going out of its way to attempt to hire Thailand's best doctors by paying the doctors more than what other hospitals pay their doctors, and also MedPark was making an effort to procure the best equipment for the doctors to use.  I am no judge of that, I am just noting what my wife was told.

Will I go to MedPark again for a routine examination?  Unlikely IF by myself as Phuket's private hospitals are decent.  But my wife was happy and she may want to go again, and if she does, I will go with her.  Money is not an issue, and a happy wife is a happy life.

There are Health Insurance companies in Europe that take a different view - where for those over a certain age, they require the person to take an annual medical.  If one does not do so, their health insurance can become invalid.

What I was told was that these Health Insurance companies looked at the statistics, and their assessment was it was cheaper for them, if a medical problem was diagnosed early (and treated) as opposed to diagnosed later, when the treatment was often much more expensive.

I appreciate there are many in this thread who have an entirely different view - but I think when a Health Insurance company looks at this from a straight $$ and cents point of view, one should give more consideration for going for an annual medical.

Now having typed that - I also believe don't always follow through with every recommendation from a medical from a private Thailand hospital, as I believe they are often looking for money. ...  Rather get a second opinion where appropriate. Often one's medical health insurance (I know mine will) pay for a second opinion.

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On 5/29/2024 at 11:09 AM, Ben Zioner said:

I was talking about about keeping the cover from your employer once you retire.

 

I think this is available to most US civil servants, many large corporation and the UN. I belong to the last group. The way is works is quite simple: the underwriter assesses the whole group of employees and retirees instead of assessing individuals. The premium (millions) is paid by the organisation and fully or  partly recovered from the employees and retirees.

 

This is not uncommon at all.

Yes - this is the sort of Health Insurance that I have (from a European government controlled/run organisation), and it covers both myself (now age-70) and my Thai wife (age-57).  I pay about 240-euros/per month for 'Health Insurance' plus 'Long Term Care' insurance. This is deducted from my European pension and further, my former employer contributes over 200-euros per month to this as well (as part of a pension perk) where the former employer's amount increases as I get older, while my contribution does not increase.  So overall the Health Insurance costs ~440 to 450 euros/month.  Expensive, but its very good.

As noted, the global health coverage that comes with this is excellent.  Currently this is provided by Cigna, but every few years, the European 'government' organisation I used to work for, renegotiates the pension for the entire organisation (~800 or more employees and  ~200 or more retirees), so to ensure competitive rates and 1st class health coverage.

It is a nice pension perk, and this Health Insurance was one of the main reasons (2 decades ago) I went to work for this organisation, in the knowledge that I would get great health insurance when I retired.

The 'downside' was the Health Insurance was not accepted by Thai immigration for the Type-O/OA visas, nor did I know enough how to get it accepted by BoI for the LTR visa (even thou coverage is unlimited).  (I now know the 'trick' thou for the LTR visa - which is getting a letter from Cigna saying coverage exceeds $50k US$ equivalent coverage - which I may use when I go for the 2nd part of my 5-year permission to stay on my LTR visa).

Of course this information on one should keep their Health Insurance upon retirement, does not help those who are already age-70 and hunting for new health insurance, BUT for those in the age of 30s to 40s, if looking for a different job, take special note if there is a pension and also in particular if there is subsidized health insurance that may come as part of a retirement package.

16 hours ago, DFPhuket said:

 

 The Phuket Immigration Volunteers website suggests bank documents could be generated up to 7 days in advance, but I've found some of that information to be outdated or incorrect (e.g., all passport pages need to be copied). 

That is my understanding.

When I had my type-O/OA visa, Phuket immigration required such on the same day.  Hence when I had a Bangkok Bank account, I had to order the bank info a week advance (as they get this from Bangkok) and when they called stating such would be ready, I had to immediately go to the bank early the next morning, get the letter (dated that very same day), then rush to Phuket immigration.  The fact that I had to wait for the information from Bangkok meant I never knew to the day prior, as to when I could go to immigration for the extension.

I have friends who have have been rejected by Phuket immigration because their bank information was a couple of days old. They were annoyed given the information on the Phuket volunteers page.  Given one of them was 89-year old at the time, having to do an extra trip to the bank and back to immigration, in a rush on the same day, was not so pleasant.  If it were me, I would have considered an agent in such a case (ie if I am so lucky to reach age 89).

The slowness in Bangkok Bank, lead me (while I had the Type-OA visa) to switch to using Krungsri Bank, for the proof of 800K THB in the bank. Krungsri Bank in Phuket will (and did for me) issue such same day , and not have to obtain the documents from Bangkok.

16 hours ago, DFPhuket said:

1. Process

   • The entire process took about 15 minutes. The initial document check was done by a kind and friendly young officer.

Wow !  only 15 minutes.  EXCELLENT.

While I was on a Type-OA visa (and then later a Type-O visa), it would typically take me a few hours minimum at Phuket immigration (and I had all the paperwork every time but once - but I note most of the time was spent waiting), albeit I concede I never went there on a rainy day  (my timing always had me going for an extension during the dry season - no rainy days). 

I have a different Visa now so I don't have to do this annual extension of the permission to stay, but its GREAT to read this went so well in Phuket.  Thanks for posting.

My Thai wife was curious about MedPark hospital in Bangkok, so (last month) she went there for her routine (once every 5 years) colonoscopy, and dragged me along for me to go for my annual medical.

In MedPark she had to show up early in the morning (around 9am), where she was assigned a hospital room (with an 'in-the-room' toilet), she was provided the medicine, and did the preparatory 'cleaning' before the colonoscopy.  At around 3pm on the day, they conducted the colonoscopy.  She had them put her to sleep for this, and so I showed up at her room at around 6pm (where I completed my annual medical in MedPark hours prior).  

This is a luxurious hospital, with incredible views of Bangkok and relatively luxurious waiting areas.   Its also very expensive.  I brought my laptop PC with me, and given the luxurious waiting areas, I was able to use my laptop PC in reasonable comfort while waiting for my wife.

For her colonoscopy, the actual costs were
* Colonoscopy : 23,100 THB (believe it or not - this was a promotion price !! (its already relatively expensive))
* Lab Pathologists fee : 600 THB (my wife had some polops that were snipped)
* Physician fee (surgery and procedures): 1,000 THB
* Laboratory - GI biopsy : 1,900 THB
* Medical supplies : 2,225 THB
... Where the above all added up to 28,825 THB ( ~725-euro or ~$785 US$).

A friend of mine in Germany noted it cost him 1/2 that price in Germany, also including some polops snipped and tested.  He did thou have to do the preparation at home, the night before ... where (in my experience) on the trip from home to the hospital - one is always worried one could have to go to the toilet while traveling and not be able to make it to a toilet in time.

Fortunately, for my wife and myself, our (expensive) medical health insurance paid for the all medical expenses.

We were out of pocket for the air fare to/from Phuket, and for the accommodations in Bangkok, as we could have much easier (and for a less expensive outlay of money) stayed in Phuket and conducted such procedures in Phuket. 

But my wife also took the opportunity to visit friends in Bangkok (staying a few extra nights), do some shopping (which she loves).  As I have posted elsewhere, a happy wife is a happy life (and she was happy), so this worked out to be a fun travel in the end.

And my wife did get to checkout "MedPark" hospital, where she was VERY KEEN to see the hospital first hand.

4 hours ago, JimGant said:

Several months ago I asked BoI about mail-in 365 day reports. They weren't too keen on it, but advised to look at the SMART site and use the address given there. Well, yesterday I brought up that SMART site to get the address -- and it had  disappeared. So, I asked BoI about it, and about reporting by mail. Here's their answer:

 

So, no more mail-in options for 365 day reporting, for both LTR and SMART visa holders.

 

Thankyou for your post.

I thought the BoI reply to you was in part encouraging where they stated:  " Please contact your local Immigration office if you wish to do a one-year report near your location, or visit the Immigration office at the Chamchuri Building in Bangkok. Each Immigration office may have different guidelines for the one-year report, so we recommend contacting them directly for specific information."

It has been reported on this forum already of an individual who remained in Thailand for the entire year, and was able to do their one-year report at their local immigration office (sadly, I did not write down which office - and I am not about to dig through this long thread to find it). 

But given that story, and the quote from the BoI reply that you provided, I am hopeful that we could see more and more local immigration offices be willing to process the 1-year reporting (although I concede it may take a while - and I won't hold my breath).  Fortunately in my case, as long as my health holds out, I am likely to travel out and back in Thailand a couple of times per year, which means I won't need to go to Bangkok.  Now that's my perspective, where instead I note that my Thai wife loves going to Bangkok to visit high school and university friends and to shop - and a happy wife is a happy life ... so one could say there is still an optimistic outlook for some of us when it comes to this annual reporting.

39 minutes ago, connda said:

Really there is no "rocking the boat."  The Thai government doesn't listen to any of us men married to Thai women. 

In this case, for the sake of foreign women and Thai men who are married and live in Thailand, I hope you are right.

Still - cynic that I can be at times, ... I still think an underlying nationalistic (and possibly subconscious anti-foreigner sentiment) , if there should ever be a case of "saving face", ...  could make this an exception to your view.  Cynically I wonder if there could be one-sided listening by the government. .... worst case resulting in foreign women could be required to show limited income, much like foreign men (married to Thai women) have to show reduced income.

I say reduced as I am thinking of the 400k THB Type-O/OA non-immigrant financial requirements (for reason of foreign man married to Thai woman)  as opposed to the 800K THB Type-O/OA non-immigrant financial requirement (for reason of retirement).  ie The amount can be reduced for a foreign man (if married to a Thai woman) but not eliminated. 

.... So if the government is pushed into a 'loss of face' by too many public complaints, would a similar 400k THB requirement be applied to foreign women?   I think not - unless of course there is a LOT of publicity around such - after which, I would not want to venture nor risk the outcome, for foreign women married to Thai men.

While there is definitely an imbalance here (arguably unfair to both married Thai women and to their foreign husbands), IMHO it may be best not to 'rock the boat'.

Cynic that I am, I I suspect if this were to be addressed, the result would be to require the foreign woman to prove her income. ie I believe a Thai perception of foreigners (having wealth) would be stronger than the Thai perception in regards to a Thai men being the main bread earner in Thaliand.

This then would make life difficult for foreign women in Thailand (who have Thai husbands - unless protected by a 'grandfather' clause).

But as noted - i can be a cynic.

14 hours ago, stat said:

I used Hanse Merkur expat 5 year insurance. I did not go into extension with the OA as I was only 2 years in TH. I wondered myself that Hanse would sign the cabinet ruling certification but I got it within 24 hours as they are used to it. I can highly recommend hanse Merkur just 59 or 69€ per month and they shelled out more in the 2 years then I paid them without any problems other then it took them like 6 weeks. NB: You do have to have a residence in GER when applying.

Thanks for the recommendation.

I think thou, I will stick with my current Global Health Insurance with Cigna Europe. It does cost a LOT more than what you pay Hanse Merkur, but it has excellent coverage, and further it covers both my wife (age-57) and myself (age-70), and it is heavily subsidized as part of my pension.

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3 hours ago, stat said:

It is my understanding that german government pension is not taxed by Germany. Did you contact Neubrandenburg Finanzamt regarding your taxation? For company pension they may be taxed according to the way they were accrued.

They sent me a letter - advising me NOT to file a tax return unless my income situation (globally) was to significantly change - they stated in the letter that was because I was a non-resident to Germany.  However if one looks at the pension amount, and the statements they provide online, it is clear there is a withhold amount.

2 hours ago, stat said:

All Emails I received so far from BOI state that ONLY remitted income remains tax free. I have asked 2 times about unremitted income and they apparently can or do not want to answer the question about unremitted income. I now asked a third time about unremitted income being tax free from thai tax.

 

Please let us know if you get an updated reply.

3 hours ago, stat said:

 

Capital gains ....

 

Many of us do NOT rely on Capital gains for our income.  I definitely do NOT.   Those that do rely on such (IMHO) need to give serious consideration as to where they live - and not just in regards to Thailand.

3 hours ago, stat said:

You can use all kind of health insurance countrywise for an OA visa like I did. You just need a signed letter from the insurance company that it is according to some thai rules cabinet decission etc. Insurance company filled it in and it was OK for the thai embassy.

May I ask (out of my curiosity) as to what (1) immigration office in Thailand, and (2) what non-Thai branch of a Health Insurance company? 

My understanding is the 'signed form' is ONLY applicable for the initial Type-OA visa application and not for the subsequent extensions. I know Phuket immigration do NOT accept that form for an extension. Instead they give one a list of Thai branches of Health Insurance companies and one MUST use one of those.

Further, my Insurance company Cigna Europe FLAT OUT REFUSED to sign that form re: Thai cabinet rules. They replied they did not know the Thai cabinet rules (even thou I provided to them both Thai language and translations to English language version of the Cabinet ruling) and they further replied they had no interest in doing so. Instead they advised I had to use their 'stock ' form.

4 hours ago, khlongtoey said:

 

4 months might be OK for the next trip

 

You could cut this up into two shorter visits.

Show up and enter Thailand Visa Exempt (currently that gives one 30-days (but it could change soon, which means this post could be soon out of date)).  The day after you arrive in Thailand go to the local immigration and apply for a 90-day type-O visa. You need to meet the Visa requirements (over age-50 + 800k THB seasoned in the bank for at least 2 months prior to your application (assuming you are applying for reason of 'retirement'). 

Nominally dependent on your immigration office location, I believe this could take up to 30 days and possibly shorter.  So it makes it a bit difficult to plan precisely.  The very day in which you receive the Type-O Visa, at the same immigration obtain a single (1000 THB) or multiple (3800 THB)) re-entry permit. This allows you to leave Thailand immediately without invalidating your Type-O visa.

Then return to Thailand about 30 days prior to your Type-O visa expiring. As soon as you get back to Thailand (with only ~30-days left in your Type-O visa's permission to stay in Thailand) go to your local immigration office and apply for a 1 year extension on the permission to stay that comes with your Type-O visa.  Again, you will need to have had the 800K THB in the bank (so simply keep the 800k THB in the bank the entire time).  Dependent on your immigration office you could receive this extension very quick or it could take the entire 30 days. 

And once you get the extension on your permission to say, immediately apply for a re-entry permit on that permission to stay extension with your type-O visa. You are then free to leave Thailand and return anytime within a year  ... just be certain to be back in Thailand one month before your 'permission to stay' in Thailand expires, so you that you have adequate time to apply for another 1-year extension on your permission to stay.

So that means only 2 months total (about 30-days per trip).   Maybe less. Maybe more.

I see such an approach mainly for those who don't plan to live in Thailand full time, but maybe only visit Thailand for 179-days or less per year.  Visiting for 179-days or less could be important for taxation related reasons (but that is something for ANOTHER thread and not this one).

Possibly with the new Visa changes coming out, there will be much superior ways to go about such an approach - and this could OUT OF DATE VERY SOON.  ... and again - it could be I made a mistake here - so if I did, I hope others will chime in and correct what I typed.

1 hour ago, khlongtoey said:

So, all this might require 4 months total in Thailand ?

 

 

Once on the 90-day type-O visa (but before obtaining the 1-year extension on the type-O's permission to stay), I suspect you could get a re-entry permit, that would allow you to leave Thailand for a portion of the 90-days.  Likely in that case, if you get the re-entry permit immediately after getting the Type-O visa, and if you then leave Thailand, you should return to Thailand after about 60-days (ie with 1 month or so left in your Type-O visa) and immediately upon returning apply for your 1-year permission to stay based on the Type-O visa.

Hopefully, if I have that incorrect, that others on the forum will correct me - but I do not believe you are required to spend 4 months total in Thailand - you do thou, need to plan your exact time in Thailand carefully to match the dates in which you will need to do things.

Back when I was on a Type-OA visa, I had a case where I forgot to do the 90 Day report before the due date.

I realized my mistake 6 days after the due date, and I showed up at the local immigration exactly one week after it was due. The volunteers who vett people coming to immigration advised me their computer system was down, and that the 90 day report could not be done on that day, and suggested I return the next day and pay the fine.

However at my request, they agreed to let me talk to an IO in the immigration office (while I was at the office), and the IO filled in some paperwork without the computer, gave me part of the paperwork,  and I was not fined and I was OK for another 90 days.

Still, I learned my lesson and I was on time for my 90 day reports from that time forward.

15 minutes ago, Presnock said:

Yes you are wrong - can be a reputable foreign company that in my case wrote a letter and sent it via email to me for the BOI stating in fact, "the unlimited hospitalization in Thailand" covered more that 50K US dollars.  The letter was accepted immediately by the BOI as was my US health insurance.

It would be helpful, I think, for BoI note on their website that such a letter (stating > $50K US coverage) is acceptable, instead of the 'stock/generic unlimited health insurance coverage' form that some Health Insurance companies provide.

42 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Yes, I was aware that government/state pensions are taxed at source in many countries. But my point was that very few will reach the 80000 USD threshold with such income. Therefore they must have other forms of pensions (or whatever) that remained untaxed while living in Thailand. The US being the exception as their citizens, wherever they live, have the duty to declare their worldwide income.

tax exempt 

 

Also, I never "structured my income", I just chose the right employers. 

My point is one need NOT reduce the "Planet to the USA" as the vast majority of us are NOT from the USA and we have already paid tax on our foreign sourced income.  I gave two EXCELLENT examples, that being Canada and Germany.  Clearly we are NOT part of "planet USA" as coined in your post but we have paid taxes elsewhere.

And as Presnock pointed out, one does not need $80K USD equivalent (for LTR-WP), but rather for obtaining the Thailand LTR-WP visa only $40K US equivalent, plus a $250K investment in Thailand (such as the ownership of a foreign freehold condo worth that much). MANY pensions do reach the $40K US$ equivalent (such as my pensions, if one adds them up and I hence I qualified for the LTR-WP, which I currently have).

Again, I believe those most concerned here are those IN A MINORITY who structured their income (either by choosing the "right" employers or by other means).  I DO CONSIDER choosing the right employer a method to 'structure one's income'. 

I also note the other group who may be concerned, are those in a minority whose country does not have a DTA with Thailand (and those without an LTR visa).

Still, I note at present time, this is ALL speculation about tax with regard to LTR visa holders. As has been posted by others, BoI when asked still maintain foreign income is NOT taxed for LTR visa holders, whether or not it is brought into Thailand.

34 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

True for on year extension of stay - but new procedures within the last decade allows conversion of a visa exempt or tourist visa entry into a non immigrant visa entry at immigration if meeting requirements and this costs 2,000 baht - during the 90 days this new visa entry is valid it can be extended for one year and continued to be extended using normal TM7 extension procedures.

Interesting ... I had not read of that.  Although rather than sit at the airport immigration to do that (after a LONG flight), I would rather do what I did, which is once I am back home in Thailand (on a visa exempt) to in the next few days head down to the local immigration office, at my leisure, and then only then apply for the Type-O visa. 

Typically, when I arrive at the Airport immigration, I am totally jet lagged and exhausted.

34 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

Your understanding is incorrect.....................obviously each Immigration may view things differently.

 

 

I know several people who have entered visa exempt and gone 'O' Visa 90 days then 12 month extension - via their local Immigration office.

You misread my post.

I noted one can not go visa exempt DIRECT to a 12 month extension.

I myself went visa exempt to a Type-O to a 12 month extension.

31 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

This is probably true if you reduce the Planet to the US. None of the EU countries taxes citizens, some tax Government pensions at source though. ...

Well - IMHO it is NOT confined to USA citizens in how this should be considered.

Canada taxes both residents AND non-residents for any income derived in Canada.  This means I pay Canadian tax on all Canadian sourced income, ... which means I pay Canadian tax on my Canadian Old Age Security, I pay Canadian tax on my Canadian Pension, and I pay Canadian tax on any interest earned from money in Canada. And that is covered by a DTA with Thailand so I do not pay double tax on that - regardless of whether I was still on a Type-O visa or on an LTR visa.

Further, Germany has a withholding tax on my German pension (ie I pay tax to Germany on German sourced income), even thou I live in Thailand.  An that also is covered by a DTA between Germany/the EU and Thailand, so again, I do not pay double tax on that.

So as I noted, I believe for many of us, for our foreign sourced income, we DO PAY TAX in the source country, and further there is a DTA agreement and we will not pay double tax.  

Possibly only those, who have managed to structure their income such they pay tax no where, might be concerned here.  And I suspect that 'lucky' group who did an excellent job of managing their income, are in the minority. ... I do fully appreciate they (this minority) need to watch this carefully and they may have some concerns.

On 6/15/2024 at 5:20 PM, khlongtoey said:

sorry to ask this, if it it is in many posts and repeat.

 

can one enter on Tourist Visas or other visas, and convert to extension of stays ?

 

and/or why do folks enter visa exempt, then do Non-Imm O's, the do the extensions vs just entering on regular tourist visas?

Further to what Rob Browder noted, my understanding is IF one is in Thailand on a Tourist Visa, or Visa Exempt (but not on a Type-O nor Type-OA non-immigrant visa) one can NOT obtain a one year extension on one's permission to stay in Thailand. 

Nominally the Type-O / OA visas are the underlying visa when going for the one-year permission to stay in Thailand extensions (for reason of retirement or for reason of marriage to a Thai).