oldcpu

This won't help the OP (as his issue is UK specific) but since 'Canada' was mentioned, I note that I was faced with a 'frozen trading account' by Bank of Montreal (BMO) [ a Canadian Bank ] when they noted my residence change to Thailand. After some phone calls, paperwork, and them unfreezing my account,they gave me these choices for my trading accounts I had with them: 1. Maintain my registered account(s) at BMO InvestorLine with no further purchases (liquidation transactions only) 2. Transfer my account(s) to another institution 3. Deregister and close my account (registered account only) 4. Register my securities in my name and accept delivery of them (non-registered account only) 5. Withdraw and close my accounts (non-registered account only) Maintaining an account with no further equity positions means that ultimately I will have my account in only cash (after all liquidations complete) and my money will deflate with inflation. I elected to transfer my trading accounts to another institution. The complexity here is actually finding a Canadian institution that will allow a Canadian citizen who is a non-resident to Canada to open a new account. Most institutions do not want to do this, as they will have extra paperwork to do for such an account. Initially I had read the Canadian CI-Direct financial institution would allow a non-resident to Canada (who is a Canadian citizen) to transfer both registered and non-registered trading accounts to them. But while I was in the process of opening an account with them, they changed their policy and decided to no longer offer such a full service to non-residents to Canada (who are Canadian citzens). I ended going with the Canadian financial organisation Questrade, and I am in the process of transferring both my Registered Retirement Savings Plan (RRSP) - sort of an equivalent to a US 401k, and also transferring a non-registered margin trading account, from BMO to Questrade. For Canadians, not resident to Canada, Questrade is the only Canadian financial institution that I could find, that was willing to provide such a service to Canadians who are non-resident to Canada. If anyone knows of any other, I would be curious - as its always good to have a backup plan if policy in a financial institution changes. For certain, as an expatriate, having one's account frozen, or being forced to close one's account in their original 'home country' is not a pleasant experience, if the options are limited. Good luck to the OP (and also to any Canadians who encountered the problem I did) in coming up with a solution.

I think both words work. I am not certain which is more precise in thus instance.

I agree with this. Krungsri - I use my Krungsri account for my regular transactions, bill payments, credit card use, etc ... If one has more than 5-million THB in Krungsri one can obtain a number of extra perks (Krungsri Exclusive) ... such as a 2 Dragon Pass lounge access per year, 2 Thai airways lounge access per year (if flying Thai airways), use of the Krungsri lounge at the bank, access to the Krungsri specific line at the bank for faster service ... etc .. When I was on a Type-O (and later a Type-OA) visa, I found Krungsri very good (same day service within minutes) in printing the annual statement and accompanying letter for the 1-year visa extension renewals. Negatives? I found Krungsri slow and not so good for international currency exchange between one's foreign currency accounts. Bangkok Bank. For bringing large amounts of money into Thailand I use Bangkok Bank and its good. Krungsri in my experience is not so good here. For foreign currency transfers I have different currency accounts with Bangkok bank and I use it to transfer large amounts of money between different currencies and its good. Negatives? To obtain same sort of perks at Bangkok Bank (that one can get at Krungsri) one has to deposit a LOT more money in Bangkok bank - so such for me is not something I want to do. When I was on a Type-O (and later a Type-OA) visa, Bangkok Bank was HORRIBLY slow (1 week - has to go to Bangkok to have done ) for the providing the annual statement and accompanying letter for the 1-year visa extension renewals. For small currency transfers (or small amounts of money brought into Thailand) I use Wise.

If you have a Yellow-Book/Pink-ID, you could try sending them your Pink-ID # as the Thai TIN and they may accept that. For my LTR visa, in order to meet the wealthy pensioner requirements category that I was applying for, I needed to buy 2-million THB in Thai government bonds. I bought these via Bangkok bank, but they insisted on a Thai TIN for the computer form application they had to fill in. They could not fill that in empty. So at my Thai wife's suggestion, we passed to them my 13-digit Pink ID# and that was accepted (noting that Thai people's TIN is the same # as on their Thai-ID). Then more recently, the Canadian Bank of Montreal (BMO) and also the Canadian Questrade financial organization (and another Canadian Organisation CI-direct) all wanted my Thai TIN for in one case unfreezing an account with a SIGNIFICANT amount of money in my account (BMO) and for the other two in opening new accounts. Again, I gave them my Thai provided (foreigner) Pink-ID number. That satisfied them all. I also added a caveat that the number was currently undergoing activation. As I noted in different threads, I have via my Thai wife's help applied for a Thai tax ID (online) but thus far have not succeeded. My wife was called by a local Thai RD official, who noted in response to a question by my wife that my Pink-ID might end up being my Thai TIN, but that my Thai TIN was not yet activated. ( I don't want to repeat here more than what I already did a couple of times in different threads.) ... and for the Pink-ID haters - I note this ID is NOT nominally needed, so please do not shoot the messenger (me) . I am only noted this worked instead of having an actual activated Thai TIN.

Tell that to the tax advisors who disagree.

Its not just dynamic in the interpretation ... but also in the expected means of enforcement ... and the expected implementation to some Visas. For example, look no further than the Thai LTR visa where there is disagreement as to whether it provides full tax exemption from income coming into the country. Some legal advisors claim it ONLY provides exemption to LTR visa holders if the money is brought into Thailand in the SAME year it is earned. They claim income from subsequent years (after 1-Jan-2024) will be taxed if not brought into Thailand in the same year of earning. Other legal advisors say it does not matter - its all tax exempt. There is a CLEAR disagreement by the supposed legal experts (different legal organisations on that). As to enforcement? There is no agreement on that as well. Will this be another Thai law that a blind eye is turned? The requirement to have a Thai tax clearance certificate when leaving Thailand is STILL ON the Thai books. There is ZERO enforcement. Taxation rules could go the same way. We will CLEARLY have to agree to disagree on this. .

I googled, and could find no reference to alien (foreigner) ID # being ok as a Thai tax ID without first having Revenue department 'making it so'. BUT I tend to agree that does not mean the Pink-ID card # can not be used by some method as a Thai Tax ID. I also (when googling) did NOT find an 'official' Thai government page on the "Pink ID" for foreigners. There are lots of 'purported' legal advisor pages (on the Pink-ID), but no government page that I could find. EDIT: One government page I did find does refer to the Pink-ID as an identity card: https://www.dopa.go.th/public_service/service_guide24/view472 That is interesting given: The Pink-ID card itself is very clear on the back, where in item-1 on the back it states (my English translation) "This card is not an identification card", which reads to be contradictory as on the front page on the card at the very stop it translates to "Identification card for people without the nationality" .... and in a lower line: "Foreigners entering the country". In my case, to get the card I had to be registered in a 'house document'. In my case this meant registered in a 'Yellow book' for the condominium unit that I own. I have read that foreigners who already have a Thai tax ID can apply for a 'Pink-ID' but I do not know that is accurate. Still given the card itself on one hand says (on the front) its an ID card, and then on the back says "This card is not an identification card", ... my view is this is not exactly a consistent description on the card. So when it comes to taxes, and tax-IDs, it would be nice to have a consistent description. Is this? or is this not? an ID card? Still - as noted already, I know (from my experience) if one having never (yet) submitted a Thai tax return, if one then tries to tries to use their Thai Pink-ID # in an online Thai taxation submission, it will not work. The Pink-ID # is not accepted (online) by the Revenue Department for an online tax return. And I also know (from my wife on the phone with a local Thai RD official) that a Pink-ID # has to be 'activated' to be used as a Thai tax ID # (but my wife was talking to him, so possibly he was referring to a online tax submission and that detail was lost by my wife). I suspect that if one submitted a Thai Tax return for a specific Thai tax year (by postal mail ?? hand carrying it to the local Thai tax office ? ), using the Pink-ID number in the place of the Thai tax ID, that the tax submission would not be immediately rejected. I suspect instead if at the local RD office, one would instead be asked to sit down for a couple of hours at the local revenue department while the Thai officials scratched their head (and phoned Bangkok) on how to process the tax return?? But that's my speculation. Anyway - I have satisfied myself that I can, for my foreign requirements, (where I have found it necessary to provide a Thai tax ID to financial institutions in Canada) that providing my Pink-ID # is acceptable to foreign institutions as a Thai Tax ID (for it could very well be such - and I further note that I have applied for the Thai tax ID where a copy of my Pink-ID was one of the documents I submitted in the application). And I will continue to watch to see how this 'in-flux' taxation situation for resident foreigners pays out. 1. It may just go away (and can be ignored by all) ? 2. It may (like I hope) not be something those on an LTR visa need watch and can be ignored (by LTR visa holders). 3. It may require tax returns from some foreigner residents (hopefully not given DTAs) 4. ... and it may be a nightmare for some with "Thai tax clearance certificates" making a comeback for annual permission to stay in Thailand renewals and for departures (of those on long stay visas) from Thailand (HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY UNLIKELY in my opinion that there will be a return to 'tax clearance certificates). I note that the present mood in Thailand is to attract foreigners to the country (with the new visa laws) and so I tend to think the concern that foreigners who reside >180 days need to be taxed on income, could be softened or interpreted by Thailand in a way with far far less to hopefully no impact. Time will tell. Possibly I am far too optimistic there.

It may come to that in Thailand, but in all due honesty, I do not think now is the time. I do have experience with both accountants (to do income tax) and tax advisors, over the course of my lifetime. I once had a tax advisor/accountant do my taxes for me in Canada, and it was a big mistake on my part. I had a number of questions/queries back from Revenue Canada about my tax return causing me (and the tax advisor/accountant) extra work (and cost me extra money to be paid to Revenue Canada). Further the tax/advisor accountant wanted to be paid for their extra fixing what I considered 'their screw up'. In subsequent years I smartened up and did my Canadian tax returns all myself - and it went fine with Revenue Canada from then on. When I worked in Germany, not understanding German language well, I hired a tax accountant/advisor for the 1st six years I worked there (4 years as a company employee and then two years as a freelancer). But in the 7th year I switched to be an employee of a European government run organization and from then on, my wife and I did our own tax returns. When it comes to Thailand, the situation at present, is shall I say ... dynamic? I have watched videos and read articles of different so called "tax advisors" and they do NOT all agree on the details as to the current implications. Why is that? I think that they themselves simply do not know at present how this will 'pan out'. The situation is still in flux. Further, thinking about my situation, most tax advisors are experts in maybe one or two countries (and maybe one or two continents), but not in multiple continents and not multiple national and international pension/income sources such as I have. Hence I have instead spent the time learning what I have on taxes and try to follow the rules best possible. So until the current Thai taxation requirements, ... given the influx (?) interpretations, .. settle down, I think I will stick to the most prudent method forward that I see. And at present that is NOT a professional tax advisor for me.

I don't know the details of Thai tax regulations, and obviously this is discussion is about Thai taxation. Still ... to provide an illustration which may NOT be applicable. .. I am a non-resident to Canada. Still, I have to file an income tax return to Canada every year (as I obtain pension income from Canada) and Canada wants to know ALL of my foreign income on that tax return, every last cent ! Even thou its not taxable by Canada. They still want to know about it. They want that as they determine my tax rate (for my Canadian pension) based on my total global income. And as a non-resident to Canada I can NOT apply most Canadian deductions to my global income on the Canadian tax form to my income from outside of Canada - but rather my total global income is used to 'make' me pay more tax on my Canadian income to Canada. .... So when it comes to a foreigner resident to Thailand, it would not surprise me if Thailand may want to know about ALL of my foreign income, even if there is no Thai tax on that income. But rather it could be used by Thailand (pure speculation on my part) to assess my overall tax rate for any Thai income I might have (such as Thailand interest from the Thai banks or Thai bonds or other). I am not saying that is the case - but I can see that sort of logic could be applied to income which while not taxable, can still be used to assess one's tax rate for other different local Thai income that IS taxable. Hence like others I am watching to see how this 'plays out'. While I hope for the best, I want to be prepared for the less pleasant. .

I did find this: " However, a taxpayer who is an individual or a payer of income who is an individual is not required to apply for a TIN if he has and uses a personal identification number (PIN) in accordance with the civilian registration law. He can use his PIN instead of TIN for tax return filing purposes." however it in my view only refers to Thai citizens and not for certain refers to foreigners with the pink (foreigner) ID.

I just spent the last 40 minutes looking at the Thai RD page trying to find documentation on obtaining a tax ID number. I can not find such that refers to the foreigner Thai (pink) ID card. Only generic statements about Thai citizen tax ID # that are 13-digits long from their Thai ID. Perhaps the RD documentation was updated since you last looked and no longer states such. ... Best I can determine now, there is no such entry any more on the RD web page (and I would be happy to be proven wrong).

Chatting just now with my Thai wife. She noted, as a test (with no intention to follow through) she started submitting an online tax form for me, ... and she entered my pink-Thai-ID 13-digit number into the tax-ID field, and it rejected the pink-ID # (as a tax-ID #) saying 'not recognized'. So it appears, (my speculation) that until the pink-ID is 'activated' as a 'tax-ID' it won't be accepted for an online completion of the tax submission. I assume then that one can print out the Thai tax paperwork , fill in with a pen, and submit such by postal mail ? (I guess I should check this) ... and maybe then one may (or may not) be able to do an online tax submission with one's pink-ID tax number for a subsequent year. But I assume (unless someone made a mistake in the Thai RD for my pink-ID) that by default, the pink-ID # is not recognized as a Thai tax-ID for an online submission until some sort of 'activation' on the Thai RD side takes place. I think am going to wait until the end of this year until the new Thai tax forms come out (?) and maybe (emphasis on "MAYBE") early next year submit a Thai tax return (by snail mail ? if possible ? ) using my pink-ID # as the Thai tax ID. This will be more for the interest (and withhold tax) associated with Thai bonds/bank accounts in my name - than for my foreign income which is tax exempt (by Royal Decree) and which even the local Thai RD official does not know how it should be handled (for foreign income money brought into Thailand by an individual on a Wealthy Pensioner LTR visa). I am not going to hold my breath expecting the Thai tax official to call my wife back, as I don't expect them to call my wife back (as they may be worried about being asked more questions that they can not answer).

I am happy to read such. If the Phuket RD official phone calls back, my wife may mention that to him. I also used that pink ID # as a Thai taxID # for two Canadian financial institutions (with a caveat it is not yet activated) so that makes me content I am doing things proper. Sometimes Canadian financial institutions can be vindictive ( my words) if they think one is misleading in following their guidelines.

I think it more complex than this. According to my Thai wife there is a way to check ones Thai tax ID online. When she entered my pink ID it was not recognized as a Tax ID. .. So when she talked to the Thai RD official, that official noted there 1st needs to be an activation for the pink ID to be the tax ID. He emphasized it is not by default active as a tax ID . One has to apply for the tax ID for the activation to take place.

Again, where does it state foreign income (from an LTR resident) is 'non-assessable'? I have read in the Royal Decree it is Tax exempt (it does NOT state non-assessable), and there is a Thai form where exemptions are listed when one files a Thai tax return. My hope is that this all clarifies as the months go by. Currently, even the local Thai Revenue Department officials don't know the answers here - which again makes me wonder how we can be 100% certain of our our answers as foreigners? I believe the best we can do is make our best assessment, and I do appreciate very much your assessment and I also very much appreciate the assessment of others.

I don't think I am confused. I have not checked for a while, but my interest income INSIDE Thailand from bonds/bank accounts is > 100,000 THB. As noted withholding tax already taken by Thailand is > 15,000 (closer to 30,000 THB). Where is the confusion you refer to ?

IF so - then why as part of the Thai tax forms is there one where exempt income is to be listed?

Financial savings/bond interest of some number well over 100,000 but not yet over 200,000 THB. Currently Thai withholding tax deductions are 15%. Again - it all boiled down to the Canadian financial institutions wanting a Thai Tax-ID and my being happy I can prove I did 'due diligence' to follow regulations in Thailand to that regard (and also give them a possible Thai Tax-ID # that they were happy to put in their computer forms).

The main 'driver' for me asking for a Thai Tax-ID was one of the Canadian financial institutions (where I have a SUBSTANTIAL amount of money), when they discovered from Revenue Canada that I was now in Thailand, froze my account. One of the things I had to do to unfreeze the account was provide them a Thai tax-ID. So obtaining an official from the Thai RD state a Thai tax-ID for me could be my pink-ID if and when it was activated (and it was not yet active) was important to me. I could then pass that information to that one Canadian financial institution. Further, I was also opening an account with a second Canadian financial institution, and they also REQUIRED my Thai tax-ID - so again, I passed them my pink-ID # with the caveat that the tax ID was not yet activated. I could also truthfully state in that application that I applied for such ID to be activated. I am happy to be on the LTR visa - but I note that the wording (translations) in the Royal Decree documents on the LTR visa note foreign income for 'Wealthy Pensioners' is "EXEMPT". The wording "NOT ACCESSIBLE INCOME" is NOT used in the Royal Decree on the LTR. Further, the Thai tax returns require accessible income is to be reported, and that income can then subsequently be deducted as being tax exempt (and there is a form for exempt income - which I note at present has no mention of income exempt by the LTR). That is why I believe the questions in regards to "is an income tax return required" was important, and it was a reason for the questions being asked to the Thai RD official (which they could not answer). And if the Thai tax officials can not answer the questions, how confident can we be of our answers?

I've been puzzling over the legal tax wording between 'assessable' income and 'exempt income'. While I am not a US citizen, I do get pension from Canada, Germany, and a European Government organisation. I also have an LTR visa. Both Canada and Germany have DTA with Thailand. My understanding from reading the DTA is that the pension income is still assessible income but it is tax exempt in some cases under the DTA with Thailand. That wording (assessible income or exempt income) makes a difference not interms of tax not being paid but rather could be in terms of "is an income tax return required" ? I have tried (unsuccessfully thus far - and I am in NO hurry) to obtain a Thai tax ID. My wife applied online for a Thai tax ID for me. That goes to the Bangkok Tax office, and they in turn passed it to the Phuket tax office. My wife then received a phone call from a Phuket Revenue Department (RD) branch official asking why did I want a Thai tax ID? The specifically asked: (1) what was my source of income? and (2) was I bringing my income into Thailand? My wife noted I have a Thai Pink-ID, and if I were to be given a Thai tax-ID, would it be the same # as my Pink ID? The Phuket RD official noted it might be, but it would need to be activated first and it was NOT activated. (My wife asked this question as a couple of Canadian financial institutions (who discovered I live in Thailand) have asked for my Thai tax ID # ). My wife advised the RD official that my income was from pensions abroad, and that I was not (at this time) bringing my pension income into Thailand. The Phuket RD official told my wife if I was not bringing my pension income into Thailand I did not need a tax ID as I would have no taxation in Thailand. My wife then noted I receive interest income from Thai banks and from Thai savings bonds (where there is a withholding tax already deducted by Thailand). At what amount of money would I have to submit a Thai tax return on that ? The official advised they would have to check the regulations and they would call my wife back. My wife then noted I am on an LTR visa and asked if my being on that LTR visa (and given BoI notes foreign income brought into Thailand is tax exempt) would I need to file a tax return to report that exempt income when I bring the income into Thailand? The Phuket RD official noted they NEVER HEARD of an LTR visa. They advised my wife that they would have to check the regulations and also call my wife back on that. That, I believe, was over a month ago. I wonder if the Thai RD still has not come to a conclusion here? My wife still has yet to receive a phone call back. Frankly I am in no hurry to get an answer. I simply gave the Canadian financial institutions my Thai Pink-ID # with a note that the Tax ID number is not yet activated. I can not help but think that the information on any changes to tax interpretations are slow in being thought through, and slow in getting to the various Thai regions. Further I can't help but think that the Thai RD is in no hurry to assign foreigners tax IDs.

My experience is normally, if there is a check for an onward ticket, it is done before boarding at one's place of origin, and not upon arrival at the airport in Thailand (although that is no guarantee). I do know of Thai Airways warning on their web site that there may be checks being done in Frankfurt (by Thai Airways), before flying to Thailand from Germany. I don't know about the UK. For 'peace of mind' for an onward ticket, they can be obtained for an inexpensive amount of money. As noted to you already, web sites such as "onward ticket.co" offer throw away tickets. If that approach makes you uneasy, and if you wanted to spend a bit more buy a real ticket (with the intention never to use) you can find some pretty cheap ones. I just looked, and I picked an mostly arbitrary date (20-Nov-2024) (being careful to avoid holidays) ... and here are some example cheap one way flights out of Thailand (which I believe include all taxes): - DMK (Bangkok) to KUL (Kuala Lumpur) : 1,333 THB (Air Asia) - Krabi to KUL (Kuala Lumpur) : 1,259 THB (Batik Air) Of course, since the ticket is intended not to be used, the departure times may be rather ugly, and likely no check-in luggage in those prices. Possibly if one researched more, they could find even cheaper prices.

I don't know if you will be asked to show Health Insurance upon entry, but i would think not. I believe typically for a Type-OA visa, the check to prove one has Health Insurance is done when one applies for the Visa. I am VERY surprised you obtained a Type-OA and was not asked to show your foreign health Insurance. IMHO that was a major omission not to check, by the Embassy office where you applied (I am assuming the reason for the visa is for "retirement' and not for 'marriage to a Thai' ). Note thou, my experience is that while foreign health insurance may be accepted by Thai embassies around the world in getting a Type-OA visa, ... once one is in Thailand, and one is trying to obtain a one-year extension (on permission to stay in Thailand on the Type-OA visa) it is a TOTALLY different story, and typically foreign health insurance is NOT accepted. Instead one has to obtain health insurance from the Thailand branch of a health insurance company to obtain an extension on a Type-OA visa. It was that (being forced to go for health insurance from the Thailand branch of a Health Insurance company (and not able to use our superior and in some cases (such as mine) subsidized foreign Health Insurance)) resulted in many of us (foreigners) deliberately leaving Thailand in a way to invalidate our Type-OA visas, and re-entering Visa exempt, and applying then for a Type-O Visa. From my perspective, the main advantages of a Type-OA visa is to get it once (which if managed carefully can give up to almost 2 years), but never extend it. Rather get the Type-OA visa from outside of Thailand (using one's foreign Health Insurance) and then if one plans to stay in Thailand permanently, once in Thailand obtain a Thai bank account (obviously not applicable to OP as the OP likely already has a Thai bank account). That way one can later easily apply for a Type-O visa and have a bank account. Currently, those entering Thailand visa exempt, who don't have Thai bank accounts, find it very difficult to open a Thai bank account (an agent is almost essential now to open a bank account for those who are in Thailand visa exempt). Without a Thai bank account one can not obtain a Type-O visa while in Thailand. But if one has a long stay visa (such a Type-OA), it is much easier to open a Thai bank account. EDIT: Note the above assumes the visa's are being obtained for reason of "retirement". If one has a Thai spouse (and the visa justification is for reason of 'marriage to a Thai'), then there is no Health Insurance requirement for a Type-OA visa, and that could explain why you were not asked for such. Do you have a Thai spouse?

I have had two Canadian organisations (Bank of Montreal and also Questrade) ask for my Thai tax-ID number. I simply replied that I had not yet been given a Thai tax ID # and passed to them my Thai Pink-ID card number, noting it could eventually be my Thai tax ID # once activated (but that it was not yet activated). I previously was on a Type-OA, and then a Type-O, and finally I am now on an LTR visa. As I posted in another thread, my wife filled in the online form for me to obtain a Thai tax-ID number. That online application goes to Bangkok. My wife learned the Bangkok tax office passed the application to the Phuket tax office. The Phuket tax office called my wife and inquired why was I applying for a Thai tax ID and what was my source of income? My wife noted I am retired, that some years back I initially brought a lot of money into Thailand, and that my current income is my pensions and investment accounts from outside of Thailand. And she noted that I stay in Thailand for greater than 180-days every year. The taxation office told her that as long as I do not bring the money I have outside of Thailand, into Thailand, that I do not need to file a Thai tax return, and hence do not need a Thai tax ID #. My wife then asked how about if I am on an LTR visa and I brought money into Thailand? Would I then have to file a Thai tax return? The Phuket tax official had never heard of an LTR Visa. My wife also asked, given I obtain interest in Thailand from bonds and bank accounts, at what amount would I need to file a Thai tax return for that income (and hence need a Thai tax ID #). The Phuket tax official stated they would look for the answer for those 2 questions and call my wife back. That was weeks ago - and we still have no answer back from the taxation official. I can't help but get the impression that Thai taxation officials are in no hurry to give foreigners Thai tax ID numbers. Perhaps in the future that could change, but at present time, that is the sense/feeling that I get.

I am on an LTR visa. My Thai wife always submits one for me. As to whether it is needed? I don't know. I suspect the policy implementation varies according to the immigration office and maybe even according to an IO one might have cause to deal with.

New Zealand $2,000 NZD? That is close to $1200 USD equivalent. Could that NZ price be a typo? It reads to be totally out of proportion compared to the other prices.