oldcpu

My non-expert view on this is if your income source country DTA with Thailand says the income can only be taxed in the income source country, then there is no need to include remitted foreign income (from that source country to Thailand) in a Thai tax return - and if that is one's only income, there is no need to file a Thai tax return. However I speculate the "except in cases ... " wording could apply if one's DTA with Thailand allows Thailand to tax the pension. That could mean filing a Thai tax return is needed (only) if foreign income remitted to Thailand. As to how the details work out on the tax return ... I don't know and I have not looked at that as such does not apply for me, given I am on an LTR visa and further given that I am remitting no foreign money to Thailand at present time (I remitted a bunch previously when I was a non-resident to Thailand).

I took a quick look at the pension section in the Belgium-Thai DTA. From that DTA: ... note the words "may be taxed" ... That suggests to me both states (Thailand and Belgium) may be able to tax the pension. Why do I think that? Well contrast that to the words in the Canada-Thai DTA which state: Note the difference in wording. The Belgium-Thai DTA states "may be taxed" while the Canada-Thai DTA states "shall be taxable only". The Belgium-Thai DTA goes on to note Belgium civil service pensions are only taxed in Belgium (unless one a Thai citizen). Although I believe for Belgium (non-civil service) pension income to be taxed in Thailand one needs to remit that income to Thailand. Where your approach not to remit seems to work to manage your tax exposure. ... anyway ... its interesting to see differences in the DTAs. as for residency, in the case of me and Canada, becoming a Canadian tax resident would be a big mistake for me, as Canada would then go after all of my global income and assets. Its better for me at present time to be a Thai tax resident. I suspect everyone is different here. Note also - I am no tax expert , so readers should come to their own conclusions - and not blindly follow my opinions.

... further - you need to read a bit further as there is "except in cases where it is necessary to show ..." and at that point it gets even more confusing. But re: your question, what does the DTA of the source country of your income say?

May I ask what country? In the case of Canada - only Canada can tax Canadian sourced pension even if one is a Thailand resident. Thailand is not to tax such (per the Canadian-Thai DTA). I doubt Canada forwards anything to Thailand. In the case of Germany? its the opposite. Only Thailand can tax a German sourced pension if one is a Thailand resident. Germany is not to tax such (per the German-Thai DTA). Germany might ??? forward something to Thailand. but ... its not clear. Important here is one still has to remit the German pension income into Thailand to be taxable by Thailand. This is also true for other foreign sourced income. Currently if the income is left outside of Thailand it is not taxable in Thailand.

The small print at the bottom is interesting where it states: It has me thinking the view of some of us that remitted pension income noted in a DTA as not being taxable in Thailand , but only taxable in the pension source country, does not need to go on a Thai tax return. Further if that is one's only income then there is no need to submit a Thai tax return. ...and it goes on a bit to provide some ?? guidance where a DTA provides for both countries (source & Thailand) to tax a pension.

Thanks for the reference to Royal Decree No.18, B.E.2505 (1962). I note (an English language translation) in Section-3 states: So that makes it clear that taxes on income can be exempt dependent on the wording of a DTA. Further, the Minister of Finance is the one who needs to implement any of the details in regards to foreign tax credits ... and also if such tax exempt income need be included in a tax return. Given the Minster of Finance (via the Revenue Department) has elected to put no place in the Thailand tax return forms (neither English language nor Thai language that I can find) for such exempt income to be listed as tax exempt, then I believe that supports the viewpoint that such tax exempt income (per the specific DTAs as authorized by Royal Decree 18) need not be included in a Thailand tax return. Edit: Obviously this is my opinion. I am not a tax advisor nor a tax expert.

Its possible whether a non-Thai language statement is accepted could be up to the local RD office. Frankly I don't know, but I suspect each RD office has flexibility in its requirements and hence by having such in print it means if they are short of staff and don't have enough staff familiar with English language, they can insist on only Thai language.

What part of the reply I made don't you understand? There is a discussion going on in this forum about whether non-taxable (ie tax free) remitted foreign income should be treated as assessable tax exempt income (and hence included on a tax form) , or treated as non-assessable income (and hence not included on a tax form). I interpret the RD official , by stating that "state pensions" are tax free, she means it should not be included on a Thai tax return. But you did not type that and I am curious if she stated that. If she did, that would support the view that such a state pension is non-assessable and should not be included on a tax return.

... and it might not. TIT. Who knows?

To quote from the Wizard of Oz .. "We are not in Kansas anymore". If one is no longer living in the country of one's citizenship, ... and if a foreigner to the country where one lives, and if one is not an officially recognized permanent resident by local law, then we are not only expected to comply with local law - but also - its up to us to find out the law. No one said it would be easy. Ok ... apologies for being hard nosed about this. ... That is the truth. Now forums like this help provide information ... and the internet is a great tool ... but I repeat ... its unlikely anyone will hold our hands. .

I'm not surprised too much there ... if they are to process a tax return form from a foreigner, they prefer the language of any supporting documentation to be in Thai language (and to keep one honest they wish the translation to be certified). Pardon me if I laugh a bit ... but this is going to be most interesting to watch all of this unfold ... I think it drives home the point ... check one's DTA and be certain one needs to pay tax to Thailand (for if tax exempt in Thailand it may not be appropriate to put in a Thai tax return). ... and also understand the implications of Thai RD ministerial interpretation por.161/162 and whether one can make the case that remitted money to Thailand in year 2024 was actually pre-1-Jan-2024 savings/income, only recently in 2024 tax year remitted (and hence tax exempt and hence not appropriate for a Thai tax return).

That looks like the year 2023 tax return form. Its not the year 2024 tax return form. So when she stated "state" pensions are tax-free to you, I assume by that she meant, they are not to be included on the tax return form as they are non-assessable income. The nation of your pension ? (apologies if you told me earlier and I forgot). A lot as to what is tax exempt depends on the source country of one's income. Edit: The year 2023 tax forms can also be downloaded from here: https://www.rd.go.th/english/65308.html

As foreigners to Thailand ,we are expected to learn and follow Thailand law. This includes Thai tax law relevant to our situation. No one will hold our hands on this.

Interesting. The one I think is most likely is it will all go away. The next one I think next most likely is (1) it will become MUCH more clear that pre-1-Jan-2024 savings/income remitted to Thailand is non-assessable income and hence is not to be included in Thai tax calculations and hence not to be included on a Thai tax return form, and (2) that it will be MUCH more clear that income noted as exempt for tax by Thailand in selected DTAs is non-assessable income and hence is not to be included in Thai tax calculation and hence not to be included on a Thai tax return form and finally, the one I think least likely is what you believe most likely.

Again, check the Thai-UK DTA. https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/nation/english_e.pdf

Do I detect a note of sarcasm? ... lol.

I guess I am from Missouri on that. My suspicion is any deletion was due to in-polite bickering, and not because of any possible immigration-RD link.

Allowance? Cheers , but I don't know what you mean. Did you check the Thai-UK DTA?

Who did not allow it?

I am not from the UK. You should check the UK-Thailand DTA as to what it states in regard to your UK income type and source.

There is more to this. There is a specific amount of annual THB assessable income that a tax resident of Thailand must receive before they are required to file a Thai tax return. Further, one needs to have a Thai tax ID number before one can file a Thai tax ID. Be careful in drawing conclusions on what some are saying on this forum and the internet. If you are uncertain, you can always go down to your local Thai Revenue Department (RD) office, tell them your actual financial situation in terms of local Thailand income (if any), whether you are bringing in post 31-Dec-2023 assessable foreign income into Thailand ,and any salient details of the Thailand DTA with the country where your income is sourced ... They will then decide if you qualify for a Thai Tax ID, and they will give you their assessment (as representatives of the Thailand RD) if you need to file a Thailand tax return. Its likely best to have a Thai language speaker with you to translate if/when you go to the RD.

That may be true and specific to the USA-Thai DTA (and some others as well) but it is not true for all DTA. Some DTA for a pension give only the pension source country taxation rights, and in those cases Thailand has no taxation rights on the pension whether or not remitted to Thailand. For example , the Canada-Thai DTA. There is no-difference clause like you note in such cases (where I assume there is such 'difference' aspect for the USA-Thai ?? DTA - I don't know re: USA as I have no income nor savings from that country). I suspect you knew that, but others may not have known, which is why I make that point. It really behooves each expat to know the implications of the DTA of their income source country with Thailand. Also , for any new to this , note there is also Thailand Revenue Department (RD) ministerial instructions Por-161/162 which note that any foreign income/money outside of Thailand, earned/saved from before 1-Jan-2024, nominally can anytime in the future be remitted to Thailand and be exempt from Thailand taxation. Only income earned after 31-Dec-2023 if remitted to Thailand might be subject to Thailand taxation if not made exempt due to other reasons.

As the saying goes : TIT (This is Thailand). If you wish representation, then try to become a Thai citizen or head back to your home country. That is the harsh reality.

Yes -and the sky could fall tomorrow and you and I could be run over by a truck. I think the best we can do is understand what is place today, and not speculate excessively on tax aspects that have not come to pass.

wow ... One needs to be careful as everyone can make mistakes. My concern for Cyclist would be that if they file their income tax the way it was incorrectly suggested to file in, someone else in the RD will review the tax submission, reject the exemption (in the wrong place as there is no place) and charge full Thai tax on the tax exempt pension. Then one is into the annoyance of appeal territory. ... best hope would be that the RD official reviewing the tax submission phones and asks why was the exemption placed in a place in the tax form which was not designed for such an entry. .. and then sort it out on the phone. But even that would be a PIA. That comment is very relevant IMHO Again , that was one factor that lead me to modify my view, ... and I now believe that non-assesable remitted income (due to Por.161/162, or due to a specific DTA clause, or due to a specific LTR visa exemption) is not to be included in a Thai tax calculation, and hence not included on a Thai tax form. That view is IMHO consistent with all Thai tax 'english' language tax forms going back to 2017 up to year 2023, and also consistent with all Thai language tax forms, including the year 2024 and year 2025 Thai language Thai tax forms. The tax forms (both Thai and English language) would need to be changed for such exemptions (and hence for the associated remitted tax exempt income) to be entered in the tax forms. .