oldcpu

You are right.

Great ! Where did you look ? Patong? Did you visit Laguna? Rawai ? Chalong? Panwa ? If so - how long did you look? .

Indeed. I believe the relevant pink-ID # is the exact same as the Yellow book #. And nominally (most the time ?? ) as an expat one needs the Yellow Book first in order to get the Pink ID.

I had trouble getting a Thai TIN (even thou I have a pink-ID #). The local RD official advised that since I had no local Thai income, and since at present I was not bringing money into Thailand - they would not activate my Thai TIN (even thou I reside in Thailand >180 days/calendar (tax) year). So as noted - for now, I will use my Thai pink ID # with the caveat that it is not yet activated. I will try to have it activated as soon as it meets the conditions appropriate for the Thailand RD.

I was pressured for a Thai tax ID#by my overseas bank/trading accounts. I provided them my Thai Pink ID# with a caveat that it was not yet activated as a Thai tax ID #. They accepted that (so far). .

There is an online Thai tax form, but one needs a Thai Tax ID # in order to fill in the form online. I believe one can download the form, fill it in by hand, and take it to the local Revenue Department office. However whether they will accept such, given one does not yet have a Thai Tax ID # is a question that I can not answer. I am as curious as you about this. .

I can NOT answer your specific questions. My understanding is nominally (in the past) to get a Thai tax ID one needs to earn over a certain amount of money in Thailand per calendar (taxation) year. Recently, there has been a tax interpretation by the Thai revenue department that for any foreign tax resident in Thailand (ie was in Thailand for a cumulative time >180 days in a calender year) who bring foreign income earned after 1-Jan-2024 into Thailand (presumeably if over a certain (small) amount) will in the future have to pay tax (and thus get a tax ID). However if those conditions are not met (for example one is living off of money that was earned BEFORE 1-Jan-2024) then there is no need at present to get a Tax ID. I reside in Thailand > 180 days per calendar year. I do not (yet) have a Thai tax ID . I had a case where a Canadian bank threatened to suspend my Canadian account if I did not provide a Thai tax ID. Further, I recently opened a new trading account in Canada, and again they advised they would only do so if I provided a Thai tax ID. What I did was provide them my Thai pink-ID #, with a corresponding explanation that this was likely to be my Thai tax ID number, but that it was not yet activated. That explanation and number (for a TIN) was accepted (even thou it is not yet activated). Of course to get a pink-ID one must first get a yellow book, which may not be possible for yourself. I don't know how much (if any) of that was applicable to your situation, given the various details specific to your case.

Perhaps - if one (with a pink ID card) fills in tax form and postal mails (or hand delivers them) to the local Thai RD department. I have a pink-ID. Its number does NOT work for the online tax submission. A Phuket Revenue Department official explained to my wife that the pink-ID (of a foreigner) can not be used (online) as a Thailand Tax ID number (TIN) until it has been activated. It MUST be activated as a TIN prior to use as a TIN (for online submission). Activation of the Pink ID to be a TIN may not be as simple as some may suspect.

I don't dispute that assessment. I do note thou that there could be different assessments. Of course Thailand is Thailand - and other countries are different. I note thou, that my wife, who had minimal income in Canada, went for about 5 years without filing a tax return. Revenue Canada contacted her, and demanded she file a tax return for those 5 years. .... So we spent a few evenings finding the paperwork and submitting the returns. When the dust settled, Revenue Canada owed my wife a trivial amount of money. So small - it was not worth the effort to file a tax return. The point here - is sometimes governments want one to file a tax return even when money is not owed. As to Thailand? I don't know. There are changes brooding in the tax situation with respect to expatriates - and I can not predict how it will turn out. For 100% certain I can not say whose view is right or wrong. All I can do is try to structure my finances so not to be impacted until the situation clarifies more.

I type the following 'with respect'. As for my participation in this thread (and others on taxation) - I am participating in this thread seeking clarity. To ensure I do not need to file an income tax return, I have been careful NOT to bring current year income, into Thailand. But there may be a year when I want to do such. I was going to bring income into Thailand (from abroad) THIS YEAR until I discovered even the Phuket RD official could not give an answer as to whether a tax_ID would be needed for an LTR-WP visa holder who brought income into the country. I have the luxury of waiting until the situation clarified. But to state the requirement to get a tax-ID and to file a tax return is clear right now suggests to me that this has not been considered in detail.

I note the word "assessable" ...That is the key word here (in regards to my situation). If one reads the 'Royal Decree' for the LTR visa, it states that income tax is exempt for a foreigner classed as a Wealthy Pensioner with an LTR visa under the immigration law for assessable income derived in the previous tax year (and brought into Thailand) ... So it refers to assessable income - CLEARLY. And it notes for such that it is tax exempt. CLEARLY. But it does not state the assessment of one's income can be ignored (ie it doesn't state one's foreign income is not assessable). Rather it states the tax on assessable income is exempt. This is important (IMHO) when it comes to assessing if a tax return is needed and hence if a tax-ID is needed. Yet one reads this forum, (and also watch videos of purported tax experts) and many claim the foreign income is thus not assessable for LTR visa holders (who have been in Thailand > 180 days in a tax year). Is that that same ? Is it? Is "assessable income that is tax exempt" the same as "not assessable income"? If it is the same, then why does Thailand have a tax form where one lists "assessable income that is tax exempt". You claim the tax rules are very clear. Despite the clarity you see, I think you will find even the experts disagree. Even the Phuket RD official could not answer the question. So it gives me pause to think and wonder as to how clear is this really? Best wishes.

I have lots of income from outside of Thailand. I don't bring it into Thailand at present. Perhaps in the future I might. My main area of concern is will I, at sometime on the future, need to submit a Thai tax return to prove such to Thai RD satisfaction? For example, Canada wants tax returns from people who reside in Canada if their global income exceeds certain levels, even if the person earns no money in Canada. Clearly it is very prudent to monitor what is transpiring in Thailand as I am here for >180 days a calendar year.

What tax rules are that given my tax situation? I don't bring money into Thailand. My money that I need to live is already here and has been here for a while. If in the future I bring more money into Thailand it will be for income earned and savings saved from long before 1 Jan 2024. I am also on an LTR visa which may or may not be relevant. So I ask you again, what tax rules say that someone in my case must have a tax ID?

My approach is to always tell the truth to the tax people. Lying simply to get a Thai tax ID makes zero sense to me. At present I don't bring money into Thailand, and I am on an LTR visa I am supposed to be exempt tax on foreign income brought into Thailand. Now if Thai RD makes it clear LTR visa holders must file a tax return in a case such as mine, I will go to the Phuket RD office and sit in their office until they give me a tax ID. At present thou, having been told by Phuket RD that they don't want to give me a tax ID just risks causing the government official to lose face. I prefer to avoid such unless they are blatantly wrong. So instead I plan to monitor the news re expat taxation, re LTR visa tax return submission requirements ( if any) , and check out the Thai 2024 tax year income tax return forms to see what I can learn. But I won't rush to potentially p*ss off the local RD officials. I draw the line there. I think everyone has to look at their own income and residency situation, and take the best legal approach that they can in regard to tax IDs, tax returns and taxation.

I am curious about this also. As I have posted before - my wife applied on line to get a Thai tax ID for myself. This resulted with a Phuket RD official phoning my wife. After hearing (1) I resided in Thailand for >180 days , AND, (2) my income was from OUTSIDE of Thailand (pensions), and (3) I was not at present bringing money into the country, the official stated I did NOT need a tax-ID. When asked about my "pink-ID" and could that not be used as a tax-ID, the official noted it had to be activated first, and the official saw no need to activate it given my situation. .

For those not familiar with the Thai Revenue Department order no. P.162/2023 ... Here is a google translation (from Thai to English). Obviously a google translation is NOT official. Again - disregard the format !!! as its a Goggle Translation. It is not an official translation - rather this is the presentation google gives when one drags an image document into Google to translate.

According to the Thai Revenue Department order no. P.162/2023 this only applies to income earned from 1-Jan-2024 onward. Money earned prior can be brought into the country after 1-Jan-2024 with no tax by Thailand. I suspect one will though need to keep good financial records to credibly show the money (brought into Thailand after 1-Jan-2024) was earned prior to 1-Jan-2024. Of course this could all change, but that is my understanding from the Thai Revenue Department order no. P.162/2023.

Anyway, if, like me, you'll never have any income -- remitted or worldwide -- that would be subject to Thai taxes - A minor point (please correct me if I am wrong), this was clarified to be as of 1-Jan-2024, and that any income earned prior to that date treated separately. Hence (independent of any LTR tax exemption) for those without LTR visa tax exemption, who have large savings OUTSIDE of Thailand prior to 1-Jan-2024, for the time being it may be simply a basic book keeping and financial record keeping effort, to show that any funds we bring into Thailand after 1-Jan-2024 were credibly (and proven to be by our financial records) earned outside of Thailand before 1-Jan-2024. Hence such money brought into Thailand is not taxable per the the Thai Revenue Department order no. P.162/2023. Of course this could all change in the future, but that is my understanding of the current active status.

IMHO it is similar with regard to Pattaya .... where many think it is only about Walking street (and a couple of other smaller areas) which are in essence RLD spots ... Where there is a lot more to Pattaya and Jomtien than such spots. I have a number of friends who live in Jomtien - and its very good ... for most of the same reasons as Phuket ... Good shopping, not too far from an International Airport (in this case @ Bangkok), lots of banking facilities ... many international schools .... and more isolated spots for those looking for such away from the main madness. Obviously I prefer the relatively 'out of the way' spot I found in Phuket, but I do note Pattaya/Jomtien have some pretty good spots - with many condos with fabulous views ... close to a beach where one can go to exercise. As noted, Pattaya is the location of choice of a number of my friends who never visit the night life areas.

Re: the 60 days - its also easier said than done to get a Thai tax ID#. As I have posted before, my Thai wife tried to get such earlier for me this year, and did not succeed. My case is I have an LTR visa, I have only brought money into Thailand BEFORE 1-Jan-2024 (and not since), and my income source is outside of Thailand. A local Revenue Department official was quite clear that if I did not bring income into Thailand (from outside of the country) I did not have to file a tax return at present time, so he would NOT activate a Thai tax ID# for me. My wife noted I am on an LTR visa and she suggested I may wish to bring foreign income (pensions) into the country in the future. So would I thus need a Thai tax ID? The Thai official noted he saw no need for me to have a Thai tax ID (since I had not brought money into Thailand) and further he noted that he never heard of an LTR visa, and that he would call back - which he never did (this was months ago). From this I deduce there appears to be some 'fuzziness' around the enforcement of the '60-day' requirements, and even the local tax offices don't know yet all the details. I suspect it may be even sometime after November this year - before there is a more clear guidance on this tax return submission (and hence Thai tax ID) situation.

With respect ...and I do mean that ... with respect ... you are expecting too much from BoI, ... and given that, you are correct. LTR visa likely is NOT the Visa for you, as I suspect you don't see the need for the patience to follow up (or restructure finances to meet the form BoI want). Which is ok. Thailand has many Visa options. There is no need to go for an LTR visa. Reference the points I quoted above on tax notices ... I ended up giving 3 years of tax records, (an extra year at BoI request) when nominally only 2 required. But so what? I could upload such from the comfort of my condo balcony with a great view of the sea, sipping a drink, and watching the sunset. That is no hardship for me. As for a written document from your broker - I am surprised BoI even entertain such. Nominally they prefer NOT to handle paper work about regular money from a brokerage (although I think they will reluctantly do such). They MUCH prefer for pensions to be regular pensions from a government. One needs to make SPECIAL EFFORT to try to expect BoI to handle brokerage pension? withdrawal? amounts? for the WP-wealthy pensioner. The BoI point of view is likely your case an exception and they are very leery of giving an LTR in such a case. Reference summing the pension amounts? I obtain old age security from Canada (paperwork in English). A pension from Germany (paper work in German language). A pension from an EU organisation (paperwork in English). The sum of just my Candian Old Age Security and EU pension exceeded the $40K US equivalent per year. I did not provide the German pension paperwork. BoI asked for the German pension paper work. I replied by paper (politely) AND also phoned and politely explained that both my Canadian OAS and European organisation pension exceeded the $40K US$ , and hence I did not want to bother translating the German pension paperwork into English language, since I already exceeded that $40k amount. They did NOT need to consider my German pension. Then the BoI asked for proof of my Canadian Pension (which I do not get yet, but I am entitled to as I am over age 65). I figure this was a quality control check to confirm I was not some sort of scam. I pointed out to BoI (by both upload PDF and by a very polite phone call) that I had deferred my Canadian pension to age-70, and so I was not in receipt of such yet, so I could not give them such proof. But that once again both my Canadian OAS and European organisation pension exceeded the $40K US$ requirement. They accepted that. Note that when you deal with BoI, you are not dealing with the BoI decision maker. You are dealing with a 'screener' who is at a lower level and presents your material to upper management, who do the approval. So dependent on the interaction between the screener and the upper level management, you could have extra requirements thrown your way by the screener (who was pressured by their manager). Honestly, even IF you point out precise para number of a large insurance document, I would be VERY surprised, if BoI accept that. Again, others have addressed this by (1) an appropriately written letter from the health insurance company or (2) showing $100K in cash in any bank account anywhere in the world (being in the account for >2 years). This is after all, a "WEALTHY pensioner" visa, .... For BoI,the wealth has to match their requirements, and if the funds of VERY wealthy people don't match the form of the BoI requirements, BoI expect one to restructure one's finances to meet BoI's requirements. Thats just the way it is IMHO. I suspect MANY who are wealthy, have their finances structured in a manner not suitable to BoI, ... and those individuals if they won't restructure some funds to precisely meet BoI requirements , likely are best to apply for a different visa. I am thinking you may be in that latter category. Best wishes to you in the Visa approach (and/or retirement location) you chose instead.

I tend to agree. Others who posted about such a letter specifically noted the letter stated over $50k US dollar equivalent coverage.

As I noted - you can call BoI on the phone, and (if you have an English language speaker or a Thai language speaker with you) then you can obtain clarification. The BoI screeners all speak Thai and English. My experience, having lived in Canada and Germany, is that German authorities are pretty efficient. Canadian, on the other hand, are NOT as efficient. So I would be very surprised to see BoI matching Germany efficiency. This is a very long thread ... so likely you did not see my post where I posted on the effort I went through to get my LTR visa (but I succeeded in the end). I posted about it here (below). Good luck. Good luck

I believe a few (who have posted on this Asean Now forum) have explained their experiences in obtaining BoI approval of their foreign (non-Thai branch) insurance company health insurance. My understanding from their posts is that they all noted they obtained a letter from their foreign health insurance company, that stated certain things in the letter. I believe it would be helpful if a sanitized copy of the letter of these successful LTR applicant individuals (with personal info from the letters removed) were posted on AseanNow, such that we could see the exact content that was acceptable to BoI. In my case, not knowing a letter approach would work, and knowing the documentation of my superb European coverage was massive - I did not try to ask BoI to wade through the MANY DOZENS of pages explaining my health insurance coverage. It was simply too much documentation provided by the insurance company and frankly, I can not see ANYONE wanting to wade through such Insurance company documentation. I don't blame BoI for one second for NOT wanting to wade through a foreign language document. The BoI approach of wanting a letter from the Health Insurance company, stating exactly what BoI want, makes sense. The problem is (from my view) is it is not clear exactly what should be in the letter, which is why it would be helpful to read of some example Health Insurance company letters that were acceptable to BoI. In my case, I did not know of such a letter approach, so I went the $100K US$ equivalent in a bank route for self health insurance. As for asking your insurance company for another letter. Why not? The worst that will happen is that they will say no. What are you afraid of there? Do you think the insurance company will deny your health insurance because you ask for a different letter? You are not making up the requirements. BoI is asking for such and you can explain to the insurance company this request does not originate from you. One suggestion I have, is when you communicate via writing to BoI (as a cover page to a document you submit), DO NOT PUT IT ALL IN ONE LARGE PARA (like you did in the quoted post). Its unpleasant to have to wade through one long paragraph - especially in a foreign language. Instead, split up the content to multiple relevant subparagraphs which is MUCH easier to read and review. Note - if you are unsure of the status of your BoI application, and if it has been a long time since you have heard from them, you can always phone BoI and very politely ask for a status and very politely ask if there is any other documentation you can provide. As noted - it took me about 5 months, ... but I was VERY polite with BoI through the entire process. Good luck in your efforts.

I spent about 6 weeks in Hua Hin (on 3 different visits combined) looking around. In the end I decided against and went for Phuket. Why? Phuket has more quality hospitals (albeit Hua Hin has some quality hospitals too ..., just a lessor number) Too many local tourists from Bangkok flood Hua Hin on holidays - with massive numbers at times approaching Phuket ill informed tourist area madness The main highway that runs through Hua Hin is horrific and makes the entire area unsuitable for me Less sea tours / expeditions from Hua Hin than Phuket Hua Hin has less international schools compared to Phuket Hua Hin is Much MUCH MUCH further from an International Airport such as Phuket has In Hua Hin, after viewing over 3 dozen different condos on the massive long beach , I could not find one in decent shape, for a decent price, that I liked ... [ also one only gets a sunrise view over the water - and not a sunset view]. Not as wide a restaurant selection as Phuket (although Hua Hin does have many) Don't get me wrong. I do like Hua Hin. I think it a great place. I believe it will be ideal for some. I have friends who live in that area - so it would be nice to be living in that area close to friends. Overall Hua Hin is SIGNIFICANTLY less expensive than Phuket also. The massively less expensive price can be important to many. I urge many to look at Hua Hin. But Phuket edged out Hua Hin for me.