oldcpu

I went to the Bangkok Bank branch in Central Festival in Phuket. The Bank 'tellers' (lady at the counter) did have to consult with the Bangkok Bank branch manager. The lady at the counter had to make many phone calls, to figure out how to do this, but eventually she succeeded - but it took time (1st lots of time waiting (as this branch is always busy), and then a lot of time waiting sitting in front of the lady at the counter as she struggled as to how she could do this. The manager of the Bangkok Bank branch in Central Festival stated I needed a "yellow book" and "Pink-ID" card, but I am skeptical if that is really necessary (I had such, so I did not dispute this with him). I also have a decent amount of money deposited with Bangkok Bank, so possibly that helped.

I've been going through the Thai line with my Thai wife for over a decade, ... where I entered using multiple visas ... such as Type-O, Type-OA, LTR visa, and even Visa-exempt. In all cases (except for one slightly slower) I had no issues, and it was massively quicker than being in the foreigner line up. In the case of the LTR-WP visa (which was slightly slower), when I entered Phuket immigration (right behind my wife, where she pointed out to the Phuket immigration IO that I was 'with her' (but this time she did not say married), the Thai line IO looked at my LTR-visa, and then had me wait for just over a minute, while he walked to another counter and talked to some other IOs. He then came back and stamped me into Thailand, with my permission to stay matching the previous end date of my 5-year permission to stay. One of the IOs he had talked to was standing close to my wife (where she was waiting for me), and that IO noted to her that they don't often see LTR-WP visas (as of yet) in Phuket. Also, in Phuket, there was no 'fast track line' (as of that time) , where purportedly LTR Visa holders can go through a Thai airport's international fast track line. So in summary, all my entries into Thailand, with my Thai spouse, were very quick going through the Thai line with my Thai wife, with only the above LTR experience, taking a bit longer. I also note, the foreign lines (when I entered the Thai line with my LTR visa) were massive in size - and I would estimate 20 to 30 minute waits.

I have an LTR-WP, and I have not made any special effort to get a Thai tax ID - nor have I filed a Thai tax return. Details: As part of my application for the LTR-WP, I ended up having to show an investment of $250K US$ equivalent in Condo. Since both my name and my wife's name is on my Thai condo deed, I could only use 1/2 of my condo purchase price toward my $250K US$ equivalent (for an investment in Thailand). So I ended up buying 2-million THB in Thai government bonds to put me over the $250K US$ investment (with some margin). As part of the Thai bond application, in the online application system being used by Bangkok Bank, they had to enter a tax-ID, else the application for the bond would fail. I pointed out to them they had been taking a 'withholding' tax from my Thai bank account for years (from interest my Thai account earned), and I asked what Tax ID they used for that? I only received 'blank stares'. In Thailand, I am told the # on Thai people's ID cards, is also their tax ID. So my Thai wife suggested to the bank that the bank use the number on my Thai "pink-ID" for the "Tax-ID" column. They entered that, and their computer accepted that. Having typed that, I doubt that the "pink-ID' is the "Tax-ID" for a foreigner, and I too am waiting to see whether as time passes if I will eventually end up getting a tax ID. At present, I do not plan to file a Thai tax return, (as my Thai income (ie income in Thailand) is less than the level necessary for filing a Thai tax return, but things can change - so I also am curious to learn here.

Please be explicit. Where ? You claim your insurance company will not increase its rates when you age. I asked which company. Please, which company? I don't believe you. You claim one must go on multiple visa runs when I noted ONE visa run to invalidate one's type-OA visa to switch to a Type-O visa. Why more border runs? Please explain. You have yet to explain. And for the OP who started the thread - there is NO health insurance requirement (from a Thai branch of a health insurance company) if you go for a Type-O visa (and apply from within Thailand). It (having a Type-O visa) makes your efforts to get Health insurance MUCH MORE flexible than being forced to use Health Insurance from a Thai branch in the case if one has a Type-OA visa. Don't let misinformation of others misguide you.

So you are saying you have a Thai insurance, that will never increase after a few years when you age and thus you move to a new age category. What insurance company is that? If you research the costs of health insurance, you will read the rates for health insurance are higher and higher dependent on one's age category. This is common knowledge. I recommend you research this again. Age DOES affect the price one pays for health insurance. "ALL THOSE BORDER RUNS" ( run typed by you as plural to be spelled runs) ? It only takes ONE run to invalidate one's Type-OA visa, re-enter, and obtain a Type-O visa. Why do you think there is more than one run (as you did use 'plural')?

Health Insurance rates are based on one's age. And yes it will increase as one gets older ... Typically there are categories of age, with a few years in each category, so health insurance DOES nominally increase as one moves from one category to the next. EVERY health insurance has this. I recommend you go back and research this if you did not know so, because it IS IMPORTANT> And in MY case my Health Insurance is heavily subsidized as part of my pension. When I get older, my health insurance does NOT go up. Rather my former employer (who provides my pension) picks up the tab for any increases. If I were to give up my superior health insurance, to go with Thai health insurance, that would be a dumb move on my part, given the superior nature of my health insurance. Agreed. EXCEPT its the Thai insurance that is inferior. ...FAR inferior to my European Insurance. It makes sense to LEAVE to invalidate one's OA visa, and re-enter to get a Type-O visa, to avoid being forced into inferior health insurance from a Thai branch. Many of us have done that. it depends on one's age. And it (health insurance from Thai companies) IS INFERIOR and more expensive (at my age of 70) than what I pay for my FAR SUPERIOR subsidized European heath insurance. No. I did not forgot. If you wish to play accusations, I can do that too (given your not understanding the situation of many here ) but in the interest of forum harmony I won't.

Well ... I think more logic applies. Many of us want to follow local requirements, and our foreign health insurance does just that in terms of coverage. For example, in my case, my European Health Insurance greatly EXCEEDS the Thai requirements. But Thailand won't accept such (for a type-OA visa) but rather require one to purchase Health Insurance from the Thai branch of an Insurance company. Further, my European Health Insurance, as part of my pension, is significantly subsidized by my former employer .. and the subsidized cost of my European Health Insurance does NOT increase every year, despite my advancing years. Health insurance from a Thai branch of a Health Insurance company would likely increase every year (due to my age). To go for less coverage, from the Thai branch of a Health Insurance company, and to pay more for such Thai branch insurance, simply makes no sense. Hence I followed the process (leave Thailand & reenter) to change my visa from a Type-OA to a Type-O. Why discard superior (and less expensive) health insurance and be forced to buy less coverage (and more expensive) health insurance from a Thai Health Insurance branch? The original intent of the Thai health insurance requirement was to ensure foreigners were not a burden on the Thai Health care system, but in part it evolved into a profit motive to funnel funds to Thai Health insurance companies. I say 'in part' because I also believe Thai immigration find it easier to check compliance with Thai branch of health insurance companies, than to check compliance with foreign branches of Health Insurance companies. So from a compliance checking point of view, it is easier for Thai immigration if one is restricted to (more expensive/less coverage) with insurance from a Thai health insurance branch. In the OP's case, if I read correctly, they are considering a Type-O visa, which will not force them (where a type-OA visa may force them) to obtain insurance from a Thai health insurance company, but instead they can use their own possibly superior and cheaper health insurance.

I am on an LTR visa now, but when I was on a Type-OA and later on a Type-O, I never had to show my bank book for a 90-day reporting drive through at Phuket immigration.

Unfortunately when it comes to meeting specifics of Health Insurance for Thailand, they have criteria in place that means some excellent health insurance from non-Thai branch of health insurance companies can be rejected. So one can have health insurance SUPERIOR to Thai requirements which won't be accepted. Hence a POINT is that there are cases of those with EXCELLENT health insurance, whose health insurance was not accepted. And further as Dr.Jack54 noted, one can enter Thailand visa-exempt, and immediately apply for a 90-day Type-O visa, if one already has a Thai bank account. If one doesn't have a Thai bank account, one can still try but it has a risk as one must somehow immediately obtain a bank account after arrival (and this is very difficult when Visa exempt). Given opening a bank account as a foreigner to Thailand is bank policy (and not a legal restriction) as to whom the Bank interpretation allows for bank accounts, this is an area where I believe obtaining help from an Agent (to open a bank account when on a Visa exempt permission to stay) could be very useful.

Hassle? I had to first get a yellow book before I could get the ID. That took over 2 hours in a local city office , where I had to bring copy of official translations of my passport (which I had) ... Bring a copy of the deed to the condo that I owned ... For the pink-ID it was almost 3 hours waiting in city hall, with similar documents, (including copy of yellow book), together with a visit to a local police station to be finger printed, followed by a return to city hall with documents from that police station, and then more waiting in city hall offices. I don't consider that quick nor simple.

In regards to the utility of the "pink-ID", while it was my Thai wife pushing me to get such, I do concede that both have come in handy at times. The YellowBook came in handy for me when renewing a Thai driver's license, and also when going for a one year extension on a Type-O visa (for reason of retirement). Did I need the YellowBook for such? No, those can be done without. The Pink-ID has enabled me to get a discount entry price at a Thai Aquarium entrance (I obtained the Thai rate). Could one enter the Aquarium without the ID? Yes, and the price difference trivial (between Thai fee and foreign fee). The Pink-ID (with Yellow Book) enabled me to buy Thai government bonds (which I needed as part of an investment in Thailand for an LTR Visa) from a local Bangkok Bank branch. The Bangkok Bank branch manager would not let me buy the bonds without such. Two other (different) Thai banks would not let me buy Thai government bonds at all. Is it possible to buy Thai government bonds without a yellow book and Pink-ID? I would guess YES, but having those two 'documents' (Yellow Book and Pink-ID) did make it easier for me (and I did not have to investigate further). So was my wife right in pushing me to get the Yellow Book and Pink-ID? Frankly? I don't know. Sometimes it can be difficult to admit one's spouse is right. :-)

For me it was a hassle. But my Thai wife wanted me to have a yellow book and a pink-ID, and putting up with the hassle to get these was far less than the pain of my wife constantly nagging me. I don't think a Thai friend is needed for certification. I note thou my Thai wife was with me the entire time pushing me - and doing all the talking to the authorities.

I hope you are correct ... but I am not yet certain this will be the case. The RD 743 is clear the LTR foreign income is non-taxable (for LTR visa holders), but it is not clear from what I can read that income tax returns are not required. If it specifically states exempt from 'income tax returns' (and not just 'income tax') I would like to read such as I must have missed such clear statement (and I looked). I am not keen on submitting more income tax returns than I have to so I would like to read such. There are countries in the world (Canada for example) which want all INCOME reported and not just income that is clearly not-taxable. The revenue department of Canada likes to make their own judgement on such matters on a case by case basis. Will this be the case for Thailand? I don't know. I hope not and I hope you are correct, but when I read the translations of the Royal Decree and the relevant Thai tax chapters, at best I can say is that it is ambiguous. Again - I would like to be proven wrong and have a clear statement from authorities that no tax return is required.

That's good. However the RD743 notes the LTR foreigner is exempt to pay "income tax" under "Section 5 - Part 2 of Chapter 3 of the Revenue Code". It does not say "income tax return" is exempt. So I dug up "Section 5 - Part 2 of Chapter 3 of the Revenue Code". Its long. Very long. That Revenue code section does thou note income tax "returns" are required for specific incomes over certain amounts and as near as I can tell (where I am reading a translation) it makes makes no distinction between local nor foreign income. Again, we are talking about "tax return" submission requirements here. So while clearly RD 743 exempts one from paying income tax on foreign income, it does not make it clear that a "tax return" is not required. This is VERY ambiguous to me. My hope is a tax return is not required, but it is by no means clear to me at present. I think with time it should become very clear.

I read translations of the Royal Decree, and best I can read, no where does it clearly state that my income from outside of Thailand (as an LTR-WP), is not assessable income. I do read its not taxable, but thats not the same thing. Based on my reading, I can not conclude that only my interest from Thai investments is used in the 120,000 THB assessment for whether a Thailand tax return is required. While I would like to infer such (no tax return if Thai investment less than 120,000 THB) , I also don't want to let my wishful thinking drive my assessment. The translation I read (where I have a LTR-WP visa) from the Royal Decree states: "Section 5 Income tax under Part 2 of Chapter 3 in Title 2 of the Revenue Code shall be exempted for a foreigner categorised as Wealthy Global Citizen, Wealthy Pensioner, or Work-from-Thailand Professional who is granted a Long-Term Resident Visa under immigration law for assessable income under section 40 of the Revenue Code derived in the previous tax year from an employment, or from business carried on abroad, or from a property situated abroad, and brought into Thailand." I do not know what "part 2 of chapter 3 in Title 2 of the Revenue code is". Is that the definition of assessable income? or is it something else? If that is not the definition of 'assessable' income, then that suggests to me that while no income tax will be due, it does not suggest to me that no income tax return need be filed. I would be happy to be wrong on this. Further there are also (and these are translated words) in the Royal Decree which state: " In order to be granted exemption under paragraph one and two, the foreigner shall file a tax return reporting assessable income which is exempted from having to be included in computation of income tax. " Does that refer to an LTR-WP ? I would like to think not, but the translation to English language is not clear to me. For certain, that translation suggests for some of the LTR visa types, that an income tax return must be filed. Whether that applies to an LTR-WP is not something I can tell reading the Royal Decree translation ... My hope is that this will become more clear as time goes by.

Like everyone else - I too am unclear how this will all play out. But in regards to your statement which I quoted, in regards income that may be considered non-assessable, there are countries in the world that are interested in all such global income for their citizens or for people who earn income in their country. And they don't care if they still can't tax such. They want to know. For such countries, ALL GLOBAL income for them is 'assessable' even though clearly no tax is required on such. Case in point: Canada. I receive interest income from Canada investments, Old Age Security, and Pension. Accordingly I have to file a Canadian Tax return every year, even thou I spend > 182 days per year in Thailand. Further, in that Canadian Tax return, Canada wants to know ALL my global income, even thou they can't tax it. They want to know every last cent earned from outside of Canada. Why? Because my global income is what they use to assess my tax rate and hence assess how much they will tax my Canadian Old Age Security, how much they will tax my Canadian pension, and how much they will tax any interest I get from funds in Canada. In fact, if my global income is too high, they will claw back part or claw back all of my Canadian Old Age Security. Its my TOTAL GLOBAL INCOME that Canada uses to determine my tax rate for any income from Canada. And this is as a non-resident to Canada. If I was a resident to Canada it would be much worse. As it turns out, as a non-resident to Canada, most of my income comes from OUTSIDE of Canada, and as a result I pay MUCH higher taxes on my Canadian Old Age Security, my Canadian pension, and my interest from Canadian savings (than I would if I had no such extra income from outside of Canada). Even thou I am not a Canadian resident, for me to not declare my global income to Canadian authorities would be illegal from Canada's perspective. And as noted, if I was a resident to Canada it would be worse (as they would tax all income from outside of Canada (if and as governed by any DTA with other countries )). I am NOT saying this is what Thailand may be thinking, but I do note that there are examples of other countries, where such countries require one to state ALL their global income, even thou it can not be taxed and even thou it is covered by a DTA. So at this stage of us not knowing, possibly Thailand is pondering something like that. And possibly not. I simply don't know - and I think at this stage we are all just giving this our best guess. My hope is that there will be no requirement to file income tax returns in Thailand for the majority of us resident here (where our income comes from abroad) but at this stage I think we have many educated guesses , but we really don't know yet exact how this will turn out.

I believe a Thai income tax return is DEFINITELY required by a foreigner with an LTR Visa if they have a Thai sourced income over a certain amount ( 120,000 THB income/year ?? < unsure > ) . An LTR visa does not exempt one from paying tax on Thai sourced income. I think thou, with the updated tax situation, we all are wondering if LTR visa holder (whose local sourced Thai income is less than 120,000 THB) will be required to file a return if their foreign sourced income is > 120,000 THB, even if not taxable per Royal Decree. I suspect we all will need to wait for further guidance from the Thai Revenue Department.

It is sad if that happens. But the simple fact is they are not Thai citizens, they likely have not been paying Thai tax, and their presence here in Thailand is due to the grace of the Thai people and the Thai government. It's not uncommon for expats in Asia ( and not just in Thailand) who run into financial problems, have no choice but to return home to the country of their citizenship. As harsh as it may read, Thailand is not interested in those who don't follow Thai law. This is IMHO especially true when it comes to financial matters. Thailand puts in place financial requirements for foreigners to long term stay in Thailand to benefit Thai citizens and not as a social benefit to foreigners having difficult financial times. Maybe its sad but that is true for most countries and not just Thailand.

My understanding is that typically when it comes to legally using an agent, (where one meets the nominal requirements but wants the convenience of an agent) one signs over a very limited power of attorney to the agent, (ie either for some immigration aspect, or some banking aspect) where they can legally conduct an activity on one's behalf. Obviously it behooves one to ensure the power of attorney is strictly limited to this activity and limited to a specific timeframe. When it comes to opening bank accounts, I believe one is facing HQ (main bank) bank policy as to which accounts they allow to be opened, and not so much any legal aspects preventing an account to be opened for a given expat.

When I am traveling with my Thai wife ( first on Type-OA, later on Type-O, and recently on LTR) and I have always gone thru Thai line.

I don't think it is easier in Phuket. It could be just as difficult, if not more difficult, than Bangkok. Back in 2016 I opened a bank account with Bangkok Bank (in Phuket town) when on a Visa Exempt status. Prior to that I had visited Krungsri Bank, SCB Bank, and UOB bank, and they all refused to let me open an account when Visa exempt. Bangkok bank only let me (then) because I convinced them I was about to buy a condo, and possibly also because I had my Thai wife with me (who had an account). Possibly if I had tried a bank (then) in Patong Beach, Phuket (which was more touristy than Phuket town, in year 2016) I would have found it easier - as banks there are more used to tourists. ... and possibly not. In the end I succeeded in Bangkok Bank in Phuket Town (and since then, once on a Type-OA visa, I successfully also opened an account with Krungsri). Having typed that, starting a few years ago (BEFORE COVID) I started seeing big signs in the Bangkok Branch office, stating (words to this effect, albeit a bit different) no new account opening on Visa-Exempt/tourist visas. Only new accounts with Long stay visas. The banks can be difficult sometimes for opening accounts. When the 10-year LTR visa first came out, we heard a few stories that the LTR visa was unknown to a couple Phuket Banks (SCB, UOB, and Krungsri come to mind) and some initial LTR visa holders were initially denied a new account. (We heard this from a friend who is a manager at one of those banks). But in the end that was sorted and the LTR visa was accepted for opening new accounts. I know - that sounds incredible - a 10 year visa and there was difficult opening a new account - but the bank branch managers had never heard of such a visa initially, and they did not want to go against their bank's policy for foreigners opening bank accounts. So possibly an agent is needed to help on Visa exempt, or on a Tourist Visa, to open a bank account. I don't know of any agents in Phuket, and it may be easier to find an agent in Bangkok.

What aspects of Koh Samui are more expensive than Phuket? According to numbeo.com: * Rent Prices in Koh Samui are 26.3% lower than in Phuket * Restaurant Prices in Koh Samui are 20.5% lower than in Phuket * Groceries Prices in Koh Samui are 4.0% lower than in Phuket Which as noted before supports a view that Phuket has very expensive rent and restaurant prices compared to most places in Thailand. According to numbeo, grocery prices are similar between Koh Samui and Phuket. However numbero.com also notes it does not have enough data to calculate difference in Consumer Prices nor enough data to calculate difference in Local Purchasing Power between Phuket and Koh Samui.

I agree that its very difficult at this time to be certain anyone's speculation on this will be accurate. A number of us are doing that - but as noted there is some speculation involved here as well (that its a safe approach) although my hope also is that bringing some additional funds to Thailand before the end of this calendar year might be a partially mitigating approach if any tax law is implemented in an unsatisfactory manner. My view is that it is not simple to enforce, but also that it is not too too difficult. Expat friends who have been here for decades, advised me there was a time when an expat (on a long term stay ( > 180 days)) in Thailand, would leave Thailand, they had to obtain some taxation document first, and have that available to show immigration upon departure from Thailand. According to my friends, it was annoying to enforce, so it was eventually done away with. So IMHO that aligns with the 'difficult to enforce' assessment. But possibly more likely (and this is pure speculation) is that if there was indeed a determined attempt to tax expats who have been in Thailand > 180 days, then this should be done when they go for their extension of stay. For any on an extension for long stay visa (such as Type-O or Type-OA) for Thailand, when they go for their 1-year extensions, they could be asked by immigration to show a Thailand tax document (if their passport indicates a stay > 180 days). That would put the onus back on to immigration to force one to either prove they submitted a tax return, and if not, the expat could be denied an extension. Again - pure speculation - but it might be a way to partially enforce such. My hope is that none of this speculation comes to pass, and clarification to any such taxation exempts expats on long term stays ... especially my hope is to exempt those living off a pension. Pushing expats to file tax returns (especially considering many may be covered by Double Tax Agreements with no tax to Thailand due) could needlessly massively increase the paperwork for Thailand's revenue service. Maybe it could cost them as much to enforce this (especially for expats on pensions) as it would for any tax gained. But that is a hope and has as much probability of happening as any of the speculations I noted. Maybe by next summer (2024) or possibly even as late as spring (2025) we will find out how this all is implemented.

Taxi costs has always been something Phuket should be ashamed of. The "taxi mafia" (as the expression goes) in Phuket have inflated taxi prices for years. I suspect other factors are more representative in regards to Chiang Mai being less expensive. I tend to agree with the 'numbeo' website assessment that the big differences between Phuket and Chiang Mai prices are rental prices, and restaurant prices (where Phuket is about (more or less) to being 2x more expensive). I also tend to agree with an assessment that in most cases (Taxi, rental accommodation, and restaurant meals excluded) that Chiang Mai is 75% to 85% of the nominal Phuket prices.

That comment, asking about the locals, brought memories of Whistler BC Canada. Many of the locals who work in the resort of Whistler BC, Canada can't afford to live there ... so they live in Squamish BC, Canada. They drive (or in many cases share a drive) back/forth from Squamish to Whistler every working day - about a 50-minute drive on a highway (in good weather conditions). When weather conditions are bad, it takes much longer. Sometimes the road is closed due to weather. Some live in Pemberton BC, which is a bit closer, but also can have bad weather conditions trying to drive to Whistler, with a 30 minute drive if they are lucky, and often much much longer to drive to Whistler. I'm not saying ideal - Far from it. Its not good. But sadly, that is the way it often is in this world, in regards to tourist resorts - and Phuket (and Patong) is no different in this regard - where local workers often can not afford the accommodation in the area close to where they need to work.