oldcpu

There may be more - this was just my experience I would not call that "hardship" ... As I posted elsewhere, most of the time I spent trying to get the LTR visa, was sitting on my condo balcony, over looking the sea (with my laptop PC on a balcony table), while I sipped a drink and enjoyed the ambience. Far from hardship - and further, most of the time when I was NOT on my balcony was simply waiting. I guess you and I have very different definitions of hardship. For the size of my portfolio, I would 100% agree re: USD $500K worth of Thai government bonds is not desirable. And unlike myself, not everyone is into buying a condo in Thailand (where one can easily find incredibly nice condos for that price in Phuket - with fabulous views). I FULLY understand that buying a condo is not something one may desire to do - ESPECIALLY if it is only being done to get a certain Visa. Fortunately Thailand has MANY other Visa options than just the LTR.

Two points - (1) my checks for health insurance to meet the requirements for my age required MORE than 17k to 25k THB. And (2) $100k US$ equivalent, even in an interesting bearing account, as small part of a very large diversified portfolio, is not unusual -and some (dependent portfolio size) might say prudent - and it can give a modest return (together with any larger prudently selected equity returns). As you state - each do what they are comfortable with. I am NOT comfortable putting all my liquid assets into equities. My diversified investment strategy for the past 40 years has worked well for me. Others clearly have different strategies ... I do note I have acquaintances who threw all their assets in equities, did NOT do well in some times - and they are still trying to recover. In my case, the cash was VERY useful for a very rapid rebound to buy when equities bottomed and just started to recover. Again - as you suggest - go with what one is comfortable with and what has worked for one..

Yes. I did similar with BRK with an equity account ... and I still hold more than $100K worth. Yes it has gone up nicely and I have greatly benefited. But as you note, that can NOT be used for Self Health insurance. An equity account will not be accepted for Self Insurance as I suspect BoI do NOT want to accept self health insurance where one is using their equity trading account to provide such, where stocks in an equity account go up and down. BoI do not want to have to judge the value of one stock. Still, I have a diversified portfolio and I do NOT put all my assets in one stock nor do I put all my assets in equities. I hold bonds and cash and other assets. Diversification is very important to me. If keeping $100K US aside for self health insurance stretches one finances, or takes away money that one dearly needs or wants to spend elsewhere, then clearly self health insurance is not suitable for one. But I already have excellent (superior to Thai requirements) Health Insurance which Thailand doesn't accept as my insurance company refuses to provide information in the format Thailand wants. And the $100k amount bearing a low return , which is needed for Self Health insurance was not an issue for me. Clearly those with less money will think otherwise. So that self health insurance works fine for myself. Obviously it is totally unsuitable for others. Clearly for others where not putting that money in equities is a very BIG DEAL then do NOT go the self insurance route. Each of us have different financial situations.

Further, I like the fact that the LTR visa specifically allows self health insurance. I concede that self health insurance is not for everyone (in fact likely not suitable for the vast majority), but for some of us, self health insurance fits well with our portfolio (and our existing insurance). I wish that the Type-OA visa would adopt the LTR visa approach, and allow self health insurance. Neither the Type-OA visa (nor the LTR visa for that matter) would accept my superior (and former employer subsidized) private Health Insurance with Cigna. .... However in the case of the LTR visa (and not in the Type-OA visa case) I was able to avoid paying for double health insurance, by simply pointing to an existing bank account that met the per-requsite for self health insurance. For the LTR Visa, the money for such self health insurance does not even need to be kept in a Thailand bank. .... I do note thou one constraint is such self health insurance can't be obtained from an equity trading account.

I think suggesting you go to the local immigration office before you leave the country was a good idea. As noted ask them (confirm they will accept the money already in your Thailand account that came from abroad and that you have been using with your type-OA for years as proof). A couple of years ago I switched from a Type-OA to Type-O visa , where the immigration office I go to is Phuket immigration. I had been on a Type-OA (with annual extensions) on this Type-OA since year 2019, .. I used the exact same fixed account for the Type-O as I had previously used for the Type-OA. They did not in my case ask for proof for the 'new' Type-O that my money came from abroad. If they had checked their records they would have seen it was the identical bank account. If asked, I probably could have dug up the proof (dating back to year ~2016) but it would have been a pain to dig up.

Investing in the Thai government bonds was one of the more difficult aspects for me to obtain the LTR-WP visa. I went (with my Thai wife) to a number of different banks to see if I could purchase bonds through them, and in the end, Bangkok Bank was the only one that would facilitate the selling of Thai government bonds to me, if I had the appropriate bank account with the necessary funds (for the bond purchase) in the account. We had to talk to the head manager of this specific branch of Bangkok Bank, who stated I could buy such a bond ONLY if I had a foreign "pink-ID" card and "yellow book", which I had. I do not know if such is nominally required but he insisted on it. So please do not shoot the messenger. So I transferred a couple of million THB into Bankgok Bank account (as the amount I transferred was all the additional amount (above the nominal amount I had in the bank) that I needed for the bonds to achieve the $250K US$ equiv investment in Thailand) ... and I waited for the next announcement of a sale of Thai government bonds, which came up in December of last year. Through Bangkok Bank I placed an order for the bonds, which took a lot of time at the counter to place said order. Possibly what took the most time at the counter was they wanted a Thai tax-ID to enter into the online bond purchase entry form. To the best of my knowledge I have no such number. The person at the counter started making noises that i could not likely then buy such a bond when I pointed out the bank regularly deducted tax money from interest in my account - so what do they do with that tax money they deduct? ... What number do they apply for that? The then went into a 'pow-wow' (a few employees puzzling over this question), when my wife broke the impasse by suggesting they enter the ID # from my pink ID into their system, and see if it is accepted as a tax #. IMHO it is likely it is NOT a tax # on the pink ID (although it IS the tax number on nominal Thai IDs), but the bank entered the number and the Bangkok Bank system accepted it. Go figure. A few weeks later, I received a phone call that my bond had been purchased and I was to come to the bank. I showed up, and they gave me a Thai bond bank book, but no bond certificate. According to the bank, only bonds with no certificate were issued now adays. Fine. So I submitted photo-copies of my bond book to BoI for my LTR-Visa application and they rejected it !! They insisted on getting a bond certificate (where a certificate typically provides more information on the specific bond, than information a bond bank book provides - such as the bond maturity date, the bond interest ... None of which is nominally in the bond book ). I went back to Bangkok bank, asked for a certificate, and after a long time (where the person at the counter made many phone calls asking how to do it), they had me fill in/sign a form, pay them a nominal (trivial) amount of money for a certificate, and stated they would call me when the certificate arrived. A week later no certificate. We phoned. No certificate. Two weeks later the same. Eventually after what seemed the longest time, I was asked to come in to the bank. They advised they would not issue a certificate, but instead gave me a letter simply stating I owned the bond. I almost went ballistic but my wife calmed me down, and I explained to them that would not likely be accepted by BoI as BoI had explained to us on the phone, they needed formal indication of bond maturity date and bond interest. So after a short pow-wow the Bank staff had an entry printed formally into the last page of my bond book, stating bond maturity and bond interest. I then scanned that, sent it to BoI and it was accepted. That was an adventure, and it was part of the delay in my LTR_WP visa application being accepted.

For the LTR visa, I think the reason why the BoI like to see a tax return, is because it provides a proof of income. I receive a German pension and Germany (Deutsche Rentenversicherung) does provide me a letter every year stating how much pension they provided for that year. I believe that official Deutsche Rentenversicherung letter to be pretty reasonable proof. Deutsche Rentenversicherung specifically provides this for taxation paperwork purposes. I did not provide that letter to BoI for proof of some of my income because (1) I did not want to bother obtaining an official translation from German into English, and (2) I had sufficient pension funds from elsewhere to meet the required > $40k US$/year for the LTR-WP ( and also used my condo in Thailand and some Thai government bonds to meet the $250K US equivalent investment). Still - I believe (speculate) that BoI would accept that Deutsche Rentenversicherung letter if I had needed it to show more income to meet the $40K US equivalent criteria.

Good point - I believe thou (as you found out) is that they won't accept an equity sale as the type of regular/consistent cash flow they are looking for. I speculate they have specific criteria for consistent/regular cash flow (ie income), and equity sales do not nominally satisfy them as being consistent enough - which is not to say its not cash flow - rather its just to say they won't accept such. Reference the 'willingness to spend' that applies to all the LTR visas even if one meets the requirements to their 100% satisfaction. One can be a billionaire, get the LTR visa, be able to prove an income of millions every month, and yet never spend a cent in Thailand. So they can only do their best and try to ensure one has the consistent incoming cash (and also other wealth) such that they are happy (based on their requirements) that one has the means to spend. They can not force one to spend one's money. When it comes to equities, it reads to me that they are very reluctant to accept very much associated with equities. Possibly dividends / interest may be an exception to their reluctance. It reminds me of my efforts to prove self insurance. One has to prove > $100K US$ equivalent in a bank account for self health insurance. I provided proof of an equity trading account that had such amount in cash and they refused to accept it, because it was an equity trading account. I then provided proof of a self directed (by me) registered government retirement savings plan, that also exceeded the >$100K US$ equivalent in cash, but because I was allowed to purchase equities within that registered retirement savings account, they would not accept that as meeting their >$100K US$ cash amount for self health insurance. They appear very reluctant to accept equity accounts for some of their self insurance and also reluctant to accept equity sales as income (ie as a consistent 'cash flow' ) for their requirements. They appear to me to be very cautious in their approval when it comes equities (or equity accounts) meeting some of their requirements. When one holds equities (as a stock) there can be good times and bad times to sell, and I guess they struggle to believe one will regularly sell equities to meet what they wish to see as a consistent income.

Its a good point - and my assumption is that they want proof of more than just wealth. They also want proof of cash flow. Its possible to be very wealthy but with cash flow so low (due to the type of investment/wealth that one has) that one has very little money to spend. So I speculate (and speculate is the 'operative word' ) that proof of one's cash flow is also very important in their criteria. They want the foreigner to spend money in Thailand, and if a foreigner can't access their wealth easily while at the same time the foreigner has small cash flow, it means that the foreigner will not be spending very much of their money in Thailand. For the Wealthy Pensioner LTR category, $80K US$ equivalent annual income, that full amount is not necessary if one has $250K US$ equivalent investment in Thailand (such as ownership in a foreign freehold condominium that is worth that amount), in which case $40K US$ equivalent annual income will suffice. But again, I suspect its not just proof of one's total wealth that they want - they also want proof of one's cash flow .... At least that is my speculation - and it being speculation means I could be wrong.

My speculation is they figure anyone over age-50 won't live as long as someone under age-50. Hence (if there is inflation) it is 'safer' for BoI to set a specific income/wealth that is lower for those age 50 and older than it is for such a limit for those who are younger. They likely believed, once they set a 'lower wealth' criteria for "Wealthy Pensioners", as opposed to a higher 'wealth criteria' for Wealthy Global Citizens, they then needed to select an age limit to assign as a demarcation. Since age-50 is used for other immigration visas, they possibly that that was a good age to select. Again that is just my speculation as to what they may have been considering. .

Thankyou for that document. I'll make a note to save it. .... I guess in case needed, I will have to dig around to get the exact Chamchuri Sq Immigration office address. I suspect I won't need such thou for some years. I'm age-69 but I hope to keep traveling out of the country for short visits once or twice a year for the next 5 years and possibly longer. Fortunately in setting up the LTR visa, BoI had the foresight to allow "the counter" for one's one-year report to be 'reset' each time one left Thailand and returned. I obtained my LTR in June-2023, but left the country in August-2023 and did not return to Thailand until the last day in September-2023. Hence my 'report' is not due until end-September-2024, and I am likely to exit/return to Thailand long before then. Given the 90-day on-line reporting rarely worked for myself, I find this 1-year reporting (and it being reset after each journey out/into Thailand) a bigger psychological benefit than I anticipated.

It must be locally in case of Cigna. My health insurance is from Europe and from Cigna. It is superior to Thai requirements but it was not accepted by Thai immigration. Cigna Europe also refused to sign any Thai forms for insurance. I contacted the Thai branch of Cigna and asked if they would indicate to immigration my insurance adequate ( for a nominal fee) and they refused. They insisted I buy new ( double ) insurance from them, which wasn't as good as my current insurance ( and was more expensive as my current insurance is subsidized as part of my pension). As pointed out, proof not required for extensions. But if you are on a Type-OA visa and have left the country and are applying for a Type-O ( to avoid health insurance from Thai branch proof requirements) you may have to prove money from abroad dependent on the immigration office. In my case, when I switched from Type-OA to Type-O, I used same account I used years earlier (with proof of money coming into Thailand) and I was not asked to provide the proof.

I thought your post (that I quoted) by itself could be misleading (for someone who does not read the entire thread) which is why I bothered. I agree with you that calling a visa a "Retirement Visa" can be misleading and not helpful if one is trying to help. As pointed out, there is no such visa that goes precisely by that name.

It depends .... (as has already been pointed out on this thread). You are correct that for an underlying Type-O visa, one does not need to show health insurance for a one year extension based on retirement. But its a different story for a Type-OA visa where one does need to show health insurance (that meets rather specific Thai requirements) for a one year extension based on retirement. Initially, when the Health Insurance requirement was implemented (when I was on a type-OA visa), to avoid go for worthless (double) health insurance from the Thai branch of a health insurance company, I switched from an extension for reason of retirement, to an extension for reason of marriage. But where money was not an issue, the paper work requirements (and time to get permission to stay in Thailand extension approved) were more of a 'bother' with the marriage justification, then with the 'retirement justification' for the extension. So a number of us on this forum (such as myself) on Type-OA visas, (despite having great health insurance and despite having a Thai spouse), left Thailand to invalidate our Type-OA visas, and re-entered Thailand successfully visa exempt, and applied for a Type-O visa. We did this because of the implementation of the Thailand immigration health insurance requirement on extensions on Type-OA visas and because retirement extensions had less paperwork and were quicker then marriage extensions for both Type-O and Type-OA. Perhaps a salient point in regards to the Health Insurance, is one pretty much has to obtain their health insurance (when on the Type-OA retirement extension) from the Thai branch of a Health Insurance company, and not from a branch outside of Thailand (even thou our insurance from outside Thailand was massively superior). (I wish the type-OA visa would follow the lead of the Long Term Resident Visa where one on the LTR visa is allowed to self insure with $100K US equivalent in a bank account anywhere in the world - but to date, the Type-OA visa has not implemented that). Hence I think the recommendation of many is to go for a Type-O visa, and further if money is not an issue, go for an extension for reason of Retirement. Possibly the 'elephant' in the room is the recent concern about taxation of money being brought into Thailand but that is not relevant to the question asked in this thread, and further that topic is being beaten to death in other threads and need not be discussed here.

As others have noted, I suspect you should have no problem going through the Thai immigration line with your Thai wife. I have a passport from an EU country, and I have been going through the Thai line at immigration, when accompanied by my Thai wife, for the past two decades in both Phuket and Bangkok airports, with no issues. .

My recollection is when one obtains an information request, and then goes to one's BoI account login, one will see an entry "Staff Name". Under that it will have typed "screen-x" where "x" is some number. For the sake of an example, lets say it says "screen5". When I phoned BoI and asked for confirmation what I submitted was adequate, or asked for clarification on the request, I would typically be asked, what 'screen number' processed the request. After providing such , if that person was in the office, they would forward me to them. If they were not available (busy or away from the office) then typically the person on the phone would try to handle my case. I never once asked to speak to the specific person listed in the "Staff Name". Rather I was asked whom.

In my case I applied in January and obtained approval (and the LTR-WP) in June. However I think it was pretty clear as to what was holding mine up each step of the way. Despite providing all the information per their requirement list at the start, I received multiple requests for more documents (in some case asking for the same document twice (they failed to spot the document in the initial upload), and in other cases because they rejected the document proof in my initial application - and they wanted different proof). My pension income coming from multiple sources (different countries) complicated it a bit for BoI, I suspect. After the first couple of document rejections, I started calling the BoI office to get a better handle on why they did not like any specific document I provided, ... or ask BoI if a document I had just provided after a request was satisfactory. The biggest delays for me were being asked for my 2022 tax returns [I initially provided my 2020 and 2021 returns] .. (when I still had not filed the 2022 return in January 2023) and a delay in proving to their satisfaction the paperwork I had was adequate to prove my investment in Thailand, meeting their investment requirements (this also took me some weeks).

Friend one - as long as the country he worked in had a Double Tax Agreement (DTA) with Thailand, he should have nothing to worry about, assuming he has already paid tax on his savings, and any money he brings into Thailand will be covered by the DTA. Again - no worries, as as long as the country he worked in had a Double Tax Agreement (DTA) with Thailand and he paid taxes there. There is a massive amount of unwarranted scare mongering about this topic. Simply incredible.

I googled this and I read for the UK : "A double tax agreement may specify that the pension is taxable only in the UK, or only in the other country. In the latter case, the double tax agreement effectively overrides the UK domestic position and no UK tax is due" (but one still may be required to report the pension the the HM Revenue & Customs). So again, DTA (double tax agreements) plays an important factor here and one may not in the UK have to pay tax on foreign pension money brought into the UK, based on the DTA with the originating country of one's pension. Also - even if taxed in the UK on one's foreign pension, the DTA typically allows one to get the taxes back that one paid in the foreign country. So there is no double taxation by bringing pension money into the UK.

I seriously doubt for LTR visa holders that savings from past years (prior to obtaining the LTR visa) will be taxed when transferred to Thailand. Further in many cases those now on pension in Thailand were likely already taxed by countries that have tax agreements with Thailand, and they have saved that already taxed money, which means no double tax (due to such tax agreements). Obviously, if a pensioner in Thailand was also working in Thailand, prior to obtaining the LTR visa, and they did not pay Thai tax the LTR visa is NOT going to suddenly exempt them from what they failed to legally do in previous years. But to see beyond that to think past already taxed savings from abroad would suddenly be taxed when the money is brought into Thailand to invest, or to use for Thailand living expenses, is contrary to the entire reason of the LTR and in my view highly unlikely. Honestly - I just read a bunch of scaremongering on this thread about potential tax changes - full of speculation.

Reads to be good news for LTR visa holders whose pension income brought into Thailand comes from abroad ....

I recently returned to Phuket after 1 month outside Thailand, traveling in Europe. I could not find a 'Fast Track' line at the Phuket International Airport, so my Thai wife and I entered the Thai line, which I note had no one in line waiting to clear immigration. This was in stark contrast to the line to clear immigration for non-Thai, which was very long. I venture a 30 minute or longer wait in line to clear immigration. My Thai wife entered first, and noted to the Immigration officer that I was 'accompanying her' (she did not say we were married, although we are married) and she advised the IO that I was on an LTR visa. At my turn on line, the Immigration officer (IO) looked at the LTR visa in my passport, and then the IO left the immigration booth for about a minute with my passport. I could hear in Thai the word LTR being noted back and forth among 3 or 4 immigration officers talking. Then the IO returned, stamped my entry into Thailand in my passport (with a permission to stay until June-2028) and I cleared immigration. All in all, very quick. Maybe a few minutes at most. It sure beats 30 minutes in line if forced to go in the non-Thai line. Although I note when I had a Type-OA Visa (and also when I entered Thailand visa-exempt) that when I was accompanied by my Thai wife, I would often go through the Thai line, which was faster than the non-Thai line at immigration. After my clearing immigration and talking to my wife, she noted the Thai immigration officials were chatting (while my entry at Phuket immigration was being processed), about the fact that I had an LTR visa and that they had not seen one very often. This was also the first LTR visa that the specific IO processing my passport had seen before. My wife also noted she had asked the IO (who processed her Thai passport) if there was a Fast Track line in Phuket International Airport for LTR visa and she was advised that Phuket had not yet setup such a Fast Track line.

It is actually very standard that those renting long term in Thailand will also, in addition to the rent, need to pay for water and electricity. The landlord can not guess in advance how much water and electricity the tenant will use, so the bill for those will be passed on to the tenant. As for cleaning, many landlords will require that the tenant pay for a maid to come some TBD time per month (from 1 to 4 times per month) to clean. Having the placed cleaned after departure is very common. I rented in Germany for 2 decades, and it was common there for the tenant to pay for electricity, water, and for cleaning.

I am curious if you had any success with your Cigna Health insurance for the LTR visa? Today I went to the Cigna site and printed out the latest certificate, so I have proof of my Health Insurance during some upcoming travel where one of the countries that I am passing through may ask for Health Insurance proof. I noted in the small print of the one-page Cigna form, that it has the date in which the print out was produced (ie today's date) and then further in the small print it states the form is valid for only one month ! As you known the "end date" of Health Insurance coverage in the one page form is blank, but the small print does clearly state that the form itself is only valid for one month after its print date. That makes me very suspicious that BoI won't accept that form for Health Insurance proof for the 5-year permission to stay in a 10 year LTR visa.

Further to Dr Jack54 suggestions, note that this would be a Type-O based on marriage to a Thai. At your age of 46, if you and your Thai spouse were to split, I suspect it could be difficult to maintain that Type-O Visa (as I believe one needs to be age-50 or over to obtain 1-year extensions of the Visa of reason of retirement). Hopefully all is well in your relationship and that my comment is a mute point, but its something worth understanding, I believe.