IsaanAussie

Hey Fruity,

Can you imagine doing an internal at farrowing with a miniture pig sow in trouble. I doubt even your talented wife's smallest finger could manage that let alone your great ham fists.

Right now I have twelve pigs at or about that size if anyone wants one, cant guarantee they will stay that small, borne yesterday. Just gagging.. Mine aren't stunted.

I am fascinated by the antics of piglets, do these minatures stay like piglets? Or do they grow into individual adults just like we do?

I have got to be honest, a pig is a pig, a barby doll is a barby doll. Teach me the difference anyone? For me, as TV member Fruity's handle states, "pigs treat us as equals" and being that small would always put you in control. Whereas with a 250 Kg sow its a bit like the large parrot that tells you "Polly want a cracker, NOW!"

Isaanaussie

s

Hi.

I miss some posts here .

Did it die or something?

I really enjoy the guys posting here. Please keep up the good work

Great well I tried, I spent close to an hour typing up my final report for the year, pressed the reply button and got a thing saying they were shutting down the site at 6pm to make the mess they have made of it yesterday. It was 5:30 pm and there was no way to retrieve my script so it was all for nought and I hate to type and doubt I'll do it all over again so you probably won't hear from me for a few months here. It was shear stupidity that they did it that way but what else is new in this land of ineptitude, you bet your horse's a..s that I am p'd off big time. May all your fresh manure smell like the fools that did this without warning or recourse for the people on site without a sensible warning, what a complete joke.

FEF,

How completely a-typical of you, sounds more like my reaction to wasted effort. Jai Yen Yen my friend. I too was surprised by the earlier than announced closure, but hey, Mai pen Rai TIT after all. There are no doubtedly more species of Pla in the pond and co-ordination isnt a Thai strength. When I looked this morning the old PMs were missing and I was pleasantly surprised by the almost immediate reaction by the support staff. Most things take a little longer here than where we all come from.

Give it another crack please, we all appreciate your input.

IA

Just take a deep breathe, and realise that just occessionaly we dont get our vinegar strokes aligned, after all isn't your motto FORD Fix or Repair Daily

[Khonwan,

Agree with your comments entirely. Here in Sisaket the situation is largely the same. There some, a very few, traditional families here that have small holdings and enjoy a simple hunter/gather diet who sell enough of their rice to cover what small bills they incur. These simple folk reside in the village full time, grow a few vegetables in the off season, tend a few cows in exchange for everyother offspring, and appear to do little else. I would be jealous but I am corrupted enough by material things to say that I would not like to live that way.

As you point out there also the very large property owners at the other end of the spectrum who in almost fuedal fashion, are well off.

I am one of the wannabes somewhere in the middle enjoying the mirade of daily challenges.

My take on it is the answer lies in having many different interests, a lot of little bits that contribute to the pocket. Are my early efforts profitable? No, but some are now slightly ahead of breakeven and the others arent adding so many negative numbers to the available bank balance.

Good luck to you and the cassava.

Isaanaussie

10 days or so ago, some goverment fella phoned the mrs, turns out he is from the present goverment and from south Thailand, [how he got her number, god olny knows?] but he is looking for nor sor sam or chanote land with 6/7 year old rubber trees, 100k per rai or barren land with the same paper for 70k, but will only buy in parcels of 2000 rai or over, so at 3% commision, mrs is very busy,

Im sure i dont have to explain what this would do to the local farmer,

Lickey,

Maybe I am just getting old and cynical, but a government guy from the other end of the country, cold calling to buy land? No I dont think so... I would be seriously cautious of this guy. Tell him nothing and take him nowhere. One to two Lan tip would get most Thais into agent mode. But would you ring a complete stranger and ask them to help you spend 140 to 200 Million Baht?

Mate, cant remember which Python film is was but when confronted with the enemy the command given was "FLEE"

Isaanaussie

Khonwan,

I lived in rural central Thailand until quite recently, not actively farming but observing the three to four irrigated rice crops a year. This is the difference for those of us in Isaan, one rain fed crop per year. So I suppose the traditional rice farmer in this area should have at least twice the areas you quote above.

Many of the younger folk are "home" for planting and harvest periods only each year, and back to deriving an income taxi driving or whatever in Bangkok. The older folk stay in the village and mind the grandchildren. Bearing that in mind, the income statistics I quoted at the start of this topic make sense.

Last year we grew 13 rai of Hom Mali. Yes we had issues with lodging and broken rice that effected the result but not seriously. Net income 54,000THB. One crop per year off 13 Rai obviously wont make me as comfortable as you Khonwan. Factored up to 130 Rai, or 540,000baht and easy chair moves nearer.

It challenges me to see the many thousands of rai that just sit fallow for more than 6 months here. Groundwater being the only source. Having just had a new bore drilled I discovered that the aquafer on my land is about 6 metres down, I had thought it wasn't so deep. Currently the water table is about 4 metres down. Last year at the end of the rains you hit water at 800mm.

The King's theory of 30% rice, 30%other crops, 30% water storage and 10% for people buildings and animals seems to me to be about right for Isaan

Isaanaussie

That's a lot of chopping, measuring and welding. Did you set up a jig for the trusses or do it the long way?

Impressive structure. I wish I could have been available to help you.

The structure is repetitive, standard lengths and angles. I cut a master part for each element and that was used to cut duplicates then just layout it all out on the ground, square it up and weld away. Tried using length jigs but not as simple for the helpers to use as something they could just lay on top of the next to be cut and clamp up the drop saw when the free ends matched and the master was snug again the blade. Two of us made 10 to 15 trusses a day.

Never turn down a helping hand, thanks for the offer.

IA

Yeah, I can see that but never felt it. I can do a lot of things, but such attention to detail is beyond me. I've spent or should I say, wasted most of my adult life assisting a bank to make money

I think you have summed up western life for most of us. Despite the gloss of corporate life, we were all just numbers in the payroll book and all had, or have an expiry date. I came here as a member of the Australian diplomatic corp, 11 years ago, and never went back. It wasn't dining with ministers, golfing with the rich, and definitely not the nightlife of Bangkok that has keep me here. I had a regional role covering ASEAN and India, jetset life and despite having a 300 sq metre apartment off Sathorn Road, found I was living out of a suitcase and waiting in airports most of the time.

Compared to today, thats not living.

Isaanaussie

Kandahar,

Thought I would drop a few pictures of the pig sty steel work in the post. Probably 6 months ago, newer stuff still in my old fashioned camera.

Preparing to lay the floor, trenchs for the footings and the whole slab was laid.

3 views of the near completed frame, front view with klong in the foreground, back end which shows the second floor a little better and a side view showing the proportions better.

The building as seen here is 12 metres wide and 27 metres long.

K, heaps of prefabricated truss elements.

IA

Thats beautiful work IssanAussie; I've seen Khandahars work up close and its something special also. he's not kidding about the 100 year product lifetime.

Its a shame the rules about us working are so strict. must be there for a reason I suppose. Its not that thai's can't produce some beautiful stuff cause they can, but its top end and expensive.

but the normal stuff churned out does seem to be missing something, attention to detail maybe. I've got lots of teak garden Furniture myself, its just knocked together and licked with varnish and whats with the one size fits all screws they use, sticking out an inch everywhere.

I reckon you guys could keep up with the competition if it was a level playing field and turn your Hobbies into successful Business Ventures.

Maybe one day you'll both find a Thai Helper who's as passionate about his work as you two.

Jubby thanks for the kind words. But if that happened, then it would just become yet another job. I hope that I continue to get a trickle of people wanting something that bit special that can challenge me to do the best I can. A few dollars, a challenge and an appreciated, quality result, that's motivating.

IA

It seems to me that you are focused enough. Success comes your way, I'm sure.

I hope so, but of one thing I am certain, I have ten piglets who will be hungry as hel_l at the moment and probably have made quite a contribution to the compost bin. Time to go socialise, keep the ball rolling.

IA

That's another thing that keeps me from becoming a wood guy. I haven't the patience for the finish. It just isn't in me. But I'm glad that you do have it. I always tend to think of woodworkers as artists, more than craftsmen.

Painting used to be something I hated. But since I started this sort of work about 8 years ago the attitude has changed, now its "Can't wait to see it finished".

Here is another construction technic I use. Instead of teak and solid timber, using ply inserts into a solid frame structure. I think it looks pretty good and sure is better than many of the store bought tables I've seen. The table has three drawers, large one for place mats and table clothes, a cutlery drawer and a general storage drawer for bills and junk.

I will make tables like this without the drawers for the restaurant yet to be finished.

As a closing comment, I suppose my life now has a focused plan instead of just adapting to the twists and turns of a career. Make sense?

Isaanaussie

Sanook, just sent you a pm, we can supply.

Ericthai,

Would you mind copying that PM to me. I have a potential interest as animal bedding and composting. Can organise transport if required. Local has about 24 cubic metre 6 wheeler.

Isaanaussie

Thanks Kandahar,

It like most things here though, must be priced affordably. So the return rate for hours spent isn't what you could get "working" but who cares. It the thrill of it. Wish I had the drill press when I made te BBQ trolley though, a lot of dowels to align. Each of piece of the insert panels in the storage box requires 32 different cuts with router and saw. Heaps on reasons to spend time on a few simple jigs when router tables and drill presses aren't available.

All good fun.

For those interested in the finish on the teak. Firstly treat with chaindrite timber preserver, not that teak needs it but as a surface preparation. Next soak in Teak Oil and sand (I use a palm sander) wet until it forms a paste on the surface. This is the trick to getting a really good finish as the sanding dust combined with the il fills the surface. Let that get almost dry then wipe off the excess. Finish with teak coloured ICI external door finish. Four or five very thin layers, wet and dry sand between coats. Final polish with wax.

I dont like really shiny finishes but I do like smooth silky feeling ones.

Isaanaussie

Kandahar,

A few of my bits and pieces. Hopefully in order

BBQ table/trolley holds a 15 Kg gas cylinder. Made for a friend who likes eating on the patio short on space for storage so needs folding sides.

Storage Box - Made 4 of these for a client to store his kids downstairs junk in. They also serve as bench seats around his pool table. Dado cut solid teak except for the back and the base which are teak faced ply

Music Stand - To inspire a Thai friend with a passion for classical guitar

Office cabinets - Made for same client as the boxes. These are for him to store work at home. Bottom drawers hold suspension files. Electric outlets fitted for side lamps, solid teak, 5mm bevelled edge glass insert on top (easier to clean the beer glass rings off)

Small solid Teak side table - made loads of these for neighbours in Wong Sawan some years ago when money was tight.

Kandahar,

Thai style steel furniture. Well done. The only similar stuff I have seen here is rubbish or poisonously expensive imports. How many of these things have you sold?

MIG, yes nice to have. Getting gases and wires around here is not easy. At least a 100km round trip. Whereas RB26 rods are practically sold everywhere and are as cheap as dirt. We have developed a reliable technique of short burst, high amperage welding to handle light gauge tubing issues without blowing too many holes in the stuff or generating a lot of slag. I have a high pressure washer which removes most of this and a quick hit with the angle grinder smooths off the lumps. I am welding for strength not appearance. 50,000 baht thats a show stopper for me.

Drill press, always wanted one, makes those repetitious jobs easy and those large diameter holes possible.

I'll dig out a few pictures of my stuff and post shortly.

Isaanaussie

OOTAI

Comments added:

Thanks for this thread it is most enjoyable reading. You have basically summed up my outlook in Post#18.

Hopefully in a couple of months when I finally "escape" from this life into my "retirement" in Thailand you will allow me to pay you a visit so I could discuss your ideas and opinions on God's gift to the world i.e. pigs.

Visitors always welcome

Just one thing that I would like further clarification on is, where did the table you attached in your OP come from as I interpret in a little differently than you?

Link to the report

http://www.vulnerability-asia.uni-hannover...ions/TDRI_4.ppt

I hope to become self-sufficient rather than to trying to make an income from farming and at the same time keep myself "busy". Bina made some good points about the way country Thai's seem to think. I know my wife said to me one day "all thais worry about is do we have food for today and money to buy some food for tomorrow". I struggle at times to comprehend why it is that most don't understand some basic economics.

A friend once said, just because the thinking is different, doesnt mean its wrong... Sounds about as basic a form of economics as is possible.

She recently asked me about whether I thought it would be a good idea for her to set up a shed and grow some mushrooms. The main point of concern to me was that she didn't understand the need to have a sure market for the end produce, she reckoned she would delat with that when needed. I did however convince her to maintain a record of all her expenditure and then record all her sales (revenue) and in the end I believe she broke even or was a few baht in front. She also came to the conclusion that the bags she boiught never performed as she was told they would in that they stopped producing a couple of months earlier than she thought they would. So in the end from my perspective it was a good outcome because it gave her something to do and think about, it taught her to have a better understanding of capital outlay and revenue and a truer understanding of what amking a "profit" actually means.

Similiar issues here, we have established a shop at our place and the thought was to sell the same stuff as the other shops in the area. But my idea was to sell things that we grow, make or add value to. Yes we sell beer, whiskey by the peck and bottle, ice, as well as cigarettes, these have good margins and help subsidise me own consumption. But it is the pork, soup, pancakes and waffles and snowcones that make decent money. Now the wife can see that there is no point stocking the junk stuff with a one baht profit. 30% gross is much better way to look at it.

But I must hasten to add that our small village is never going to make us rich and the cost of running the display fridge and large freezer has lifted the electricity bills considerably. We do because it fun, the wife loves it. The sausage maker and bacon slicer are sitting idle at the moment awaiting the next pig. So what we have now is only the start of what I hope to establish. No single thing will make us wealthy here, but lots of little contributions make us comfortable.

As kandahar says in one post, "Maybe instead of being the successful Farang farmer, you can be the guy who made so many successful Thai farmers" education can be as rewarding as making a profit.

Happy to pass on any knowledge I have. Experience tells me that the locals like to see things happen and understand the costs before they will adopt something different.

I understand the pace thing when you put it in that perspective. I am retired also but I work pretty hard most days. And yet, Thailand does offer a life free of most of the hassles of my home country. Hard work or not, it is a much more relaxed lifestyle. Your distinction isn't trivial.

I build furniture as well. But I use steel and Smartwood. Like you, I can't retire and just stop and sit around the house and I can't live in the bars.

Good luck with your future.

Kindred spirit apparently.

Steel work has been a very large part of my last couple of years. Both the house extension roof and all the framing above the concrete posts for the pig sty I have fabricated from steel sections. Now I am still making the pen gates, wall panels, feeders etc for the fitout. Two arc welders, good drop saw, pedestal drill, pipe bender....yardy-yar-yar.... Great fun when the toy box is full

Isaanaussie

I have just had a new 4" bore sunk for the pig sty. It is 15 metres deep and cost 100 baht per metre. The existing bore was hand dug and only 8 metres just didn't produce enough water.

I have purchased a robust piston pump which can draw water from over 20 metres at 4500 litres per hour. To this 1" pump I have fitted a pressure tank and switch, and a gate valve. Altogether, including a 1/3 HP Japanese electric motor the unit cost 4,200 baht. So I have an automatic pump for a bit less than the domestic round versions common in town.

Being belt driven allows the pump to be used without electricity if needed.

I have 4 tanks of 1000 litres each and will use the pump to replenish them as well as a source of pressured water for hoses etc.. The tanks will supply gravity feed drinking water for the pigs and during power outages can be used to provide some water for washing.

My logic for the system was to supply sufficient for drinking and wash out for the sty. At 15 litres per pig per day, that means at maximum stocking a daily requirement of 1,500 litres. I thought that 2- 3 days supply in storage would suffice so I went for 4,000 litres. The sty is arranged in two rows of seven pens and water is supplied to the back of each sty and to the front of some. So there are four primary lines each fed by one tank. Weight of water was also a concern and a primary reason for going for four tanks rather then two 2,000 litre.

Issanaussie

Anyone looking to buy a pool table or a soccer game table (name escapes me). There is a manufacturer in Bangkok in Wong Sawan. Their prices start at about 30K for a pub size table.

Isaanaussie

Sanook,

Thats a lot of sawdust! I have a large timber merchant near me that manufactures doors and window frames, they also kiln dry timber. They are typical of many scattered around the country but I doubt their growing pile of sawdust would go close to your need.

If your are in Bangkok then you might try the timber sois off Krung Thep Nonaburi road in the Tau Pun/Pracharat/Wong Sawan area. There are two sois that are full of timber merchants, woodworking businesses and equipment suppliers. You may be able to get information from these people as they buy and sell from all over the country.

Isaanaussie

Many of the posts here reflect my own thoughts. Yes, CPF and Betagro are the corporate giants and they have changed Thai argiculture for ever. Can my meagre enterprise compete with the Betagro's huge pig enterprises? Well that isn't even a question, the answer is just so self evidently, no way.

Kandahar, your comments echo my thoughts. But I make one, perhaps trivial distinction. To me working hard is part of life regardless of the "pace" of the life you live. No-one ever gave me anything for nothing, nor would I take it if offerred without giving something of value in return. The slow paced life I am talking about, is a different issue.

This is a matter of choice. Just because the pace of life is accelerating to "keep up with the Jones" for most of the world does not mean everyone has to play that game. I am technically retired, but to me you retire when they put you in a box with a lilly on your chest. I have just stopped playing corporate shuffleboard, competing for the crumbs as expected.

My lifestyle is possible here in Isaan whereas it would be unaffordable for me back in Australia. I do things that are fun and challenging and being a totally irresponsible person, ignore the rest. Mucking out the pigs is just one of the things that needs to get done several times each day. I find that enjoyable simply because of the interaction with the pigs. It has taken me two years to get to the stage I am now and still much remains to be done.

I am looking forward to achieving all the things that I have planned to "close the loop". Slowly.

I would also take a different slant to some comments on secondary income sources. I absolutely love building furniture, especially in teak. Yes I have made money from this activity over the years here. But for me its a passion.

My only "job" now is living. My pace of living in my own, slow enough....... I believe the last word should be.. FREE

I think your last post and Kandahars star post sum it up quite well really,for a foriegner to succeed in a agricultural business venture here is virtually impossible unless you are corporate player and that too with the employment laws must come with some serious financial risks.

The only thing i tend to disagree with is you say integrated farming is not widely practised here,from what i have seen the Thais are experts in making something from nothing and have great entrepronural(sp) skills but sadly the whole thing that lets them down is as you said.......there is very little decent cost accounting,which at the end of the day is the important bit

Interested to know how deep your experience is, again honest question. I find that there is little integration, some byproducts, such as cow manure is scrapped out and used to fertiliser some crops. But the limited number of animals cannot fill demand. Trees cleared are usually sawn into building material size and submerged to reduce resins etc.. helping whiteant type problems. But I have yet to see anything that resembles a closed loop system.

Financial risk? Two points, firstly when and where has agriculture ever been without disporportionate risk? Secondly, after the last few years on a global basis, please tell me that risk has amplified everywhere. Life has become an everyday-athon, increasing demands on our resources time and nervious efforts.

It's not that I am risk averse, I just crave the slower pace of life that I enjoyed as a child, time to watch the world go by. Farm life in Thailand is as close as I have ever come.

It's too hot to farm. What Isaan needs is industrial parks with high-tech/green foreign companies like Samsung, LG, Apple, etc., etc., providing thousands of good paying jobs in a climate controlled environment.

Out of interest and not cynicism, what interest do you have in a forum on farming?

Interesting responses so far. Thai law does prohibit foreigners working in agriculture, paid or not. Legally you could not even volunteer.

Debt issue. Dead right and will take time to be solved. Thailand has rapidly advanced its manufacturing industries at the expense of, or perhaps neglect of the farmers. In recent years more money has been allocated by the Thai government and they are pushing the banks to look more kindly at financing farmers. I can understand the banks being reluctant without a good hold over the only asset most have, the land title. Many of those have more leins on them than the tower of Piza already.

Apart from those issues, the real challenges are in getting realistic prices and better diversification. Around me it is "one in, all in" everyone growing the same things and basically competing with their neighbours to fill the next pickup truck that enters the Mobahn. Attempts to sell direct to market outlets and shops are often effected by mafia like interference.

If the Thais can't achieve it, my question was, how can we? Surely pouring money into a lost cause is not the brightness of ideas? For me the answer is in value adding to maximise values. Integrated farming is not something that is practiced widely here, nor is decent cost accounting.

Keep it coming guys....

Isaanaussie