IsaanAussie

Trevor,

No, you are not crazy at all. The industry has moved from a mass of small farmer holdings (2-100) pigs to one that is dominated by the CPF and Betagro type giants. The prices are now protected by these companies need for profit and that will continue to hold the pork prices up.

Feed prices rose slightly last month and it is suggested will go up again in the next few months. But as you stated the depressed prices of pork and high feed prices are now a lot more in balance. My budgetary figures have improved by over 10% in the last 6 months.

On your question of ideas, consider a dry muckout and combine the solids with rice straw to produce compost/fertilizer. Use the empty feed bags and sell the result at around 30 baht per bag. The wash water will still put 10-30% of the solid wastes and the urine into your fish pond.

After 18 months my pig palace is almost finished, will post some pictures again soon.

Isaanaussie

Currently I have three litters of Duroc piglets. The last sale was for a pair of weaned barrows at 2200 baht each. Seem expensive? Well not if you consider that those had reached 17 Kgs by the age of 5 weeks. The gilt I have kept is now over 50 Kgs at 13 weeks.

Point being check the growth rate carefully as a cheap pig may not prove that to remain cheap if the FCR is too high. Simple question is to ask how long to reach the 100 Kg weight.

I bought a set of tags from another forum member and the pliers. I would suggest you check out ebay and the like as there. are a number of manufacturers that will send limited quantities by post. Also there are some large piggery operators that also ooperate vet supplies and feed outlets, ie. in Buriram, you could try them.

Come on, frogs, hogs and rhode island reds. Where else, Friuty Ed Buriram.....Fix and/Or Repair Daily

Unless he maes the crust with lard, they're crud.

Kindly enlarge upon the above in plain English!

Here is a recipe for traditional pork pies where lard is used in the crust. Attached is a photo

Ingredients

For the filling

450g pork shoulder, (ask your butcher for the higher meat) finely chopped

55g pork fat, finely minced

55g Bacon, minced

For the pastry

450g Flour

225g lard

90 ml water

beaten egg yolks, or milk to glaze

For the jelly

300 ml water

1/2 envelope powdered gelatine, (about 6g)

Parsley, or other herbs (optional)

1. To make the pastry: put the flour in a mixing bowl and crumble in the lard. Work until beginning to come together. Add a pinch of salt and start adding the water gradually, working until the dough breaks (NB. it must not be stretchable). Let it rest for 1 hour.

2. Preheat the oven to 190C/gas 5.

3. Knead the dough on a floured surface and roll out about 5mm thick. Reserve enough pastry to make a lid. Use the larger piece of dough to line the base and sides of a 20cm plain flan ring or springform tin.

4. To make the filling: mix the pork shoulder, pork fat and bacon and season with salt and pepper. Place this mixture in the dough case, but don't squash it in.

5. Brush the edges of the dough with water and place the lid on top. Make sure this is sealed well by pressing with a fork.

6. Brush the top with egg yolk or milk. Cook in the oven for about 1 hour 30 minutes until golden brown.

7. Remove from the oven and remove the flan ring immediately. Leave the pie to cool, and then chill overnight.

8. The following day, make up the gelatine with the water according to the packet instructions. You can add parsley or other herbs if desired. Make a hole in the top of the pie and pour the gelatine in until the pie is completely filled (the meat will have shrunk so there will be plenty of space). Let the pie set in the fridge overnight (or for at least 12 hours for the best results).

Gary A,

Life is a matter of choice, some people like pigs, some don't. A good friend, Fruity, once said if you dont like pigs, don't get involved. Glad things worked out the way you wanted.

Slapout and Mr Wiggle,

Keep the batterys charged boys. Life is for the living, who wants to read about it.

Isaanaussie

I have 3 centrifugal pumps...

all draw water from the klong.

Two are cheap china 1hp...

and the third is good quality Italian 2hp.

Often they "freeze" and trip the breaker on startup.

As a last resort,

I "tap-n-bang" the intake metal with a small hammer.

Requires 2 people...

one at the breaker and other at the pump.

Anyone have suggestions of a "fix"?

Thanks for all suggestions.

Hi Howto,

Most well supplied water and groundwater in general here has high iron content. If could be that you have a build up of rust/mud in the pumps. Probably a good idea to pull one down and have a look.

Isaanaussie

Just a quick note to those who may wish to purchase good quality furniture. We have a local group starting to produce from solid timber at Thai village prices. I love making solid timber furniture, especially in teak. I have been asked to give these guys a bit of a hand and would like to see them succeed.

Please PM me with any queries, for those who have a photo or a sketch of what you want, that would help. If not give me an outline and I'll send back some ideas and costs.

Isaanaussie

Thai's use shovels that are nothing like what I am used to and I don't find them efficient enough for my needs. I would like to move quite a few wheelbarrow loads of dirt and wonder if a normal western shovel is sold anywhere. I did not see any at HomePro. The specs I am interested in are a long handle for a taller person, wide & rounded blade, heavy gauge steel that won't bend in clay, and a place to put your feet to lay into it. This would be the regular shovel found in the USA but I have yet to find anything like it here. A spade would be nice too, but maybe wishful thinking.

Canopy,

Keep looking they are out there. It may be a matter of finding the pieces and assembling. Handle and blade seperately. I have a good spade which I find upcountry and a proper pick, the head and handle discovered in different shops. Try looking in the more speciality shops, like those that sell septic tanks and other drainage gear, they are more likely to have the shovel you are looking for.

If all else fails, or even in the meantime, get a good Thai farmers digging hoe. An amazingly efficient tool once you get the hang of using it. If not then watch someone else swing one for you. Probably cheaper than importing a decent farang shovel.

Isaanaussie

Well Pigsters I thought I would restart this thread to see if there are others like myself involved in pigs.

I will post some photos soon showing the progress on my pig palace, which has been recommenced as a result of more favourable exchange rates.

Anyone who currently has pigs will tell you that pork prices are up and feed prices down. Now is a good time to get into the game.

Love to hear from all and any with a story to tell. To the Nay sayers, I am reminded of a classification of men into three categorys, 1. Those that learn by reading about it; 2. Those few that learn by listening; and 3. The rest of us that just have to pee on the electric fence ourselves.

Issanaussie

Hi Guys,

I heard recently that a 1:1,000 EM solution sprayed around the beds will deter insects, wouldnt harm any of the plants either I suppose.

Isaanaussie

Haha, you're going to be about 5 years too late with this next piece of info Maize.

Had a ring tank erected.....had heard of other leakage problems, so told the builders they wouldn't get paid 'til it was leak free for a month. Fine. Called them back 3 times before finally leak free. Paid. 2 months after I paid the leaks started. Called them back....no response. Called every week for 3 months...."very busy, but don't worry"...."Auntie just died"...."Yes, yes, we've not forgotten you" and on and on. Got someone local in to patch it up. It's been leaking on and off now for 5 years and looks a right mess. Only the front and sides leak. The back of the tank, facing East and protected by a windbreak has never leaked

Thinking about getting it moved, out of eyesight so eagerly await your revelations.

Regards.

P.S. Cost me 30,000 baht back in 2004. 2 mtr diameter, c. 6 metre high, 7 rings.

TeleT,

Give this a try. Drain it out and get the inside as clean as you can, "paint" on a cement and water paste with a brush, two coats on the inside, two days to dry, refill and see what happens. It wouldn't hurt to include a good slug of waterproofing solution as well.

IA

Dear All,

I came across this information on the web and am interested in the comments of anyone who has tried it.

Aerobic Bokashi:

Rapid decomposition.

The resources we have most readily available are animal dung, rice husk and rice bran. Other organic matter that can be used are as follows:

Can use rice bran, corn meal, soybean organic material, maneur, corn bran, wheat bran, maize flour, rice husk, bean husk, rice straw, oil cake cotton, seed cake, press mud, bagusse, chopped weeds, sawdust, coconut fiber and husk, crop residues, fruit bunches in oil palm, fish meal, bone meal, dung of any animal, kitchen scraps, seaweed, crab shells, and similar materials.

Can also add: rice husk charcoal, zeolite, kelp, grass, and wood ash. These porous materials improve soil physical conditions and nutrient holding capacity.

Should smell sweet and fermented (with white mold).

To make:

• 2 parts animal dung
  
• 1 part rice husk
  
• a little rice bran
  

Spread this combination in long short rows (around 1 ft high).

Water with:

• 1 part EM
  
• 1 part Molasses (can use sugar diluted in hot water but should be strong)
  
• 100 parts Water
  

Saturate initially until thorough. If squeeze and water comes out, you have too much water. Water the first day. Cover with bags or straw. Compost will get hot and then come back down. Then it is ready. Takes about 4-5 days.

Take and use on top of garden beds. Don’t let it dry out too much. Use as soon as possible. If can’t use, dry it out and use later. Temperature should be between 35-45 degrees Celsius.

Reference site: http://www.punpunthailand.org/sustainable-agriculture.html

They also have recipes for EM and insect repellents

Isaanaussie

I'm going to grab a chance to learn here. In my experience there are two zones for worms in any vermicomposting/culture application. First, the bedding material which provides everything that they need to survive, and secondly, the supplemental or food layer. For me the first layer is to process the manure, either processed or raw, and straw of other biodegradeable medium into something usual and the second is to dispose (perhaps improve the usefulness is a better term) of compostable waste materials.

Perhaps I'm wrong so any and all comments are welcome. Am I being too simplistic?

Isaanaussie

MF,

I contacted Ericthai yesterday and their kenaf core materials are being used in the production of animal bedding and they are undersupplied. I doubt you would get rich growing this stuff but the folage silage opportunities for cattle feed and bast fibre opportunities in a range of manufactured products impress me. Definitely worth a look at this for anyone who has underutilised acreage between rice crops. They are currently more for someone to just peel the bark off this stuff than many forum members got per Kilo for cassava.

Good luck to you Ericthai and to your company.

Isaanaussie

Ozzy,

If I offended you then that was not my intention and you have my apologies.

But an article on the autonomous region of Tibet where 0.5mtre cube holes are supplying the cooking gas needed ablely assisted by a greenhouse above them and carried out on a "methane" stove is simply not credible.

IA

Sorry posters, i shou;d explain a little more, the fact that the beds were overspayed has prevented me from planting anything in the last cooler months, hence all chemicals have removed and banned from the farm, the idea of the chicken tractor is to re-vitalise the soil by natural means, and get eggs into the bargain, other than kitchen waste, what else would keep them going till fresh shoots appear?

Thanks, Lickey.

Chickens make great lawn mowers and insect controllers. Pick up the handles and drive the tractor over to the house garden, the excrement will not hurt with a bit of rain to wash it in.

Tibetans cooking with methane gas

More than 100,000 Tibetan households are now cooking with gas thanks to an environmentally friendly hole in their backyards.

Pits in which refuse is placed to ferment and produce methane are increasingly being used to meet the energy needs of families across the autonomous region.

Families of five can meet up to 80 percent of their cooking and heating needs courtesy of a pit measuring 0.5 m by 0.5 m and by 0.5 m.

With a potential to save a family about 1,000 yuan ($146) a year, it is estimated more than 100,000 Tibetan households are now making the most of methane gas.

The government began promoting the new fuel in rural areas in 2006 and plans to build 39,468 methane-generating facilities this year.

At the end of 2010, the figure is expected to reach 200,000 across the region.

Puqung, a farmer in Zongxia village in the Tibet autonomous region, uses a methane stove in the kitchen to prepare her family's breakfast.

"We used cow manure for cooking and heating before, but the smell it gave off was so bad I couldn't open my eyes."

The family's stove is now connected to a methane pit in the backyard.

Since the gas came online, the Puqung's kitchen has been much cleaner and much easier on the nose.

"Life is much easier since we don't have to collect livestock manure and firewood any more," Puqung said.

Like her family, almost all households in the large farming village are interested in building methane pits, covered holes in which waste ferments and creates useable gas.

"We are benefiting from the new fuel," Zon'gar, a villager, said.

"It turns waste into treasure."

A cleaner environment and economic profits have made methane pits increasingly popular in rural areas of Tibet.

Jo'nga Cering, an inspector of Tibet's agro-pastoral department, said the regional government has been researching a practicable method of using methane fuel in plateau areas.

"If we build a greenhouse on the methane pit, it ensures the required temperature for fermenting stalks and straws," Jo'nga Cering said. "It proves efficient."

Methane gas not only improves living conditions for farmers and herders it also saves coal and firewood, Jo'nga Cering said.

I get 600mm cube holes dug at a rate of 10 per man per day or about 15 baht. I will bet you right now that these holes will be worth less than that in 3 months time. Same as here, no money, no honey. This article is absolute BS, nothing personal mate

I like many posters on this topic in various threads, have been studying the subject of Bio-gas for some years. I have decided to delay the construction of a biodigester to process the effluent from my pig farm. Recently there has been a lot of research done on the CN Ratios of various feedstocks which indicate low levels in pig manure hence low methane production. A limited and unreliable gas supply would be of little benefit to me and I am yet to resolve a method of adding more vegetable matter or other feedstock to increase gas production without aggravating potential hard scum formation.

I consider the digester as an important part of my total integrated farm planning but not one that is essential. To be honest I find it hard to justify the expense of building and maintaining the digester and gas handling equipment against the cheap price of grid electricity here.

Currently I am reviewing a composting option which would combine rice straw, manure and crop wastes in a vermicomposting environment. My two issues are odours and the need to condition our farm soil.

Isaanaussie

Hi Guys,

The last few posts contain some very valuable comments based on 1st hand experience and I thank you all for sharing those. Perhaps I should clarify my position a little. I do not intend to become feed self sufficient, I simply do not have the land required nor the capital to purchase milling equipment. In terms of pig production my target is 300 marketable pigs per year with an average of 90 pigs to be housed based on a 16 sow breeding herd. So the operation is only small, no wild "CPF" dreams here. But yes, the 100kg at 6 months target are very much a part of that.

What I am trying to achieve is flexibility and as suggested in previous posts, in Isaan that depends on capturing water and improving the soil. After digging the pond I will be taking a step backwards with the already poor soil conditions as I need to raise the land level to avoid flooding. So it will be green manure crops and hard slog for me.

Issanauusie

PN,

Thanks for the info, I'll do a drive by next time I'm in town.

MF,

You have summed up the plight of many Isaan farmers and the water situation well. But there are factors to consider in the total COP that I invite your comment on, such as the costs of harvesting and returns on investment for people such as PN who has two expensive combines idle for most of the year.

The more industrious of my neighbours are growing off season crops on as much of their land as they can pump water to. Their limitations for chilli or for 2nd crop rice are the expenses of constructing storage ponds and purchasing large pumps, most use small electric units.

In my case I will be growing feed crops for my pigs as a principle concern where the COP is less than that of commercial feeds. The volatility of market crop prices will always be a problem for farmers in Thailand and most other countries, feast or famine.

Isaanaussie

If the Thais don't do it then do likewise. They've been doing it for thousands of years and if there was a way, they'd have found it. 'When in Rome.......... springs to mind.

Do what? bludge.

I thought it self explanitary. Maizefarmer picked up on it in post #7. what is a "bludge" by the way. Not a dig but a queery.

A bludge or a bludger is being lazy or a lazy person who lives off the efforts of others.

Judas,

I doubt anyone in Isaan could tell you how many litres of rain are needed to grow a rai of rain feed rice as opposed to irrigated rice of central Thailand. No-one owns a rain gauge around me.

Its not viable - the margins on rice growing are not enough to cover the energy costs associated with irrigating in Thailand (which would be capital outlay on pump, and piping and then the ongoing cost of fuel - operative word been: "ongoing" , as in the dry season you will be having to pump large qauntites per rai per week - the cost of the diesel will strip away all potential profit - it will cost more to grow than it will sell for).

Yes - places like Vietnam and China have successfully introduced out of season irrigation techniques - but both those countries are able to yield double (and in some cases 3 to 4 x as much!) rice per unit area than Thailand - and thats without irrigation!

In Thailand, for all but a few folk, rice farming is a subsitance crop - and it will stay like that untill hybrids can be introduced on a commerical scale which give the yields that are realisable in China and Vietnam without having to irrigate - then, the costs of irrigation may well justify an out of season crop - but not with average yields as they are.

Rice farming is NOT a subsistance crop for most farmers - I harvest thousands of rai/year for hundreds of farmers - they all sell most of their crop, I cannot think of one who keeps it for subsistance. The price of rice is 50% up on previous years.

At today's rice and energy prices it is viable to irrigate for a 2nd crop if you are close to a water supply, you do not need huge quantities of water/rai, dampening the paddies once per week will do. There is also the added advantage that, with controlled watering, fertiliser will not be washed away. The main prob I predict would be that at harvest time (end April/May) the rains usually start.

I have been told many times that my ventures are not viable but they seem to keep me and my wife's family reasonably comfortably.

PN,

I agree with your thoughts and would add the choice of rice variety is a critical factor. I have lived in Suphanburi for four years and watched continuous cropping of rice 3 and 4 times per year on irrigated land. As MF points out, they all use large diesel powered pumps (usually truck engines) to flood irrigate and to drain the paddies and use large combines to harvest.

Soil differences could be a key factor in Sisaket for us both and I would be more than a little interested in the local Ag College trials.

Isaanaussie

I've had the fantastic opportunity to spend 2 weeks in Issan, on a rice farm( my girlfriend's parents) and I have to say that very rarely in my life I'd met oustanding people like I did in this part of thailand. I've noticed that the climatic conditions are very harsh on the soil and in many cases farmers don't get the chance to have more than 1 harvest per year because of this reason. I will get back there very soon and, as in my not near future I would like to establish myself there for good, I will appreciate anybody's feedback on artificial irrigation in order to maximize rice production(let's say 10 rai). How much would be an approximate investment in order to make this happen?

What would be the biggest challenge?How difficult is to find some rice land for sale?

Thank you all in advance,

Riceman09,

I am currently doing what you have described, that is, establishing a year round ground water based irrigation system in Sisaket. The issues I face are; firstly, a large seasonal change in the level of the ground water; and, a rapid percolation rate or the rate that water is absorbed. At present the water table is about 2.5 metres down, but by October it will be just below the surface in some spots.

In terms of cost and land availability, currently there are occassions when people will sell the land, usually when "hot for money" and parcels in my area are still at 20 to 30K per rai. We have purchased land in the past by letting it be known that we are interested and then waiting for the starting price to fall to something realistic. These are usually not well developed and involve clearing some trees and mounds, and repairing the paddy bunds at a minimum. Issues of land title type and other members of the family approving the sale are the biggest show stoppers.

Ozzydom makes a point worth listening to. Do not assume that now eager family members and neighbours will be available to work for you at all times. Study the people as well as the level of mechanisation available in the area and what crops are being grown. Also look around the area for market opportunities for your intended crops as well as suppliers, Isaan is not an easy place to buy "unusual" things.

Good luck with your planning and take your time in making decisions.

Isaanaussie

read thru all the threads: most thai wont touch sheep or goat meat unless they are from the south and/or muslem like in udon thani.

wool sheep will ahve horrible wool due to the moist and hot climate of thailand; perhaps some of the tropical 'hair' sheep might do better but my experience is probably not: i.e. israeli sheep give wool but that is a by product of their main product which is meat (and the milk) so idont think their wool is very high quality. but maybe the australian developed sheep might do ok but dont think there is much of a market for wool in thailand either....

bina

israel

There was a Royal sponsered project to introduce sheep farming in Chang Mai/Rai in the mid 70's. Collaboration projects have been undertaken by Australian and Thai agencies for sheep farming for meat and wool in the same timeframe. Sorry cannot remember any outcomes but I'm sure you could find something on the web.

Try googling "Merino" the breed of sheep and Thailand.

Isaanaussie