IsaanAussie

A bag of 30% protein fish food is at 500 Baht. Do any of you buy directly from the manufacturer? If so, give details. How else do you keep your cost down, and still provide a well balanced feeding strategy?

Mellow,

Yes I buy "indirectly" from the manufacturer as part of a group. It has to do with knowing someone within the supplier company and getting the product onto a truck heading in your direction. It also has to do with tonnage. As to cost saving, up to 20% by this route.

If you live near a feed mill, go and do a deal. Elsewise, make your own. In the case of fish food you may have the issue of pellitising for float or sink etc.. I intend to make my own feeds in the near future and have grown some of the crops needed. There are plenty of dietary notes on the internet to work from.

Isaanaussie

With all the troubles in the world a more religious man might start to wonder if there isn't a higher power behind all this. How long has it been raining, is it 40 days and 40 nights yet?

Q: Who was the greatest financier in the Bible?

A: Noah - he was floating his stock while everyone else was in liquidation.

Isaanaussie

Thedi: A sturdy good quality desk chair is not a cheap purchase in Thailand.....

It has been my experience that Thai "craftsmen" can COPY a design or photo of what you need.

Bob,

You got a good result by the looks of your photos and a reasonable price for the work you described. Well done.

Thedi,

Have fun making the desk. If your tool box isn't too full, remember woodscrews and glue are the strongest joint you can get. Buy a piece of dowel and plug the holes after you finish.

Isaanaussie

Good - I'm glad someone has found those comments of practical use.

Making your own feed - always a good idea: both cheaper than buying on the retail market and you'll get better quality if you read up on the subject and tailor the components. Use fish meal/ fish waste as the protein base - probably the best protein base you can get bar none - and its commonly avalible in Thailand (because of the fish processing industry).

Since producing myself my processed feed costs have come down 30% plus - if thats not incentive enough I dont know what is.

MF,

Agreed completely. My current sums say I can match the current finisher diet assuming I pay full price for fish meal and less than 2 baht per kg of feed for vitamin and mineral premixes. Well, I could walk into Tescos right now and pay 17 baht a kilo for Pla Nin, sun-dry and grind and still be in front of the 27 baht for fish meal. I hope the blighters breed like anything in my pond.

Isaanaussie

Hi MF,

I read your post on melamine with amazement so I did a bit of a search. I have attached an article from the NYTimes from April last year. I now understand the economic incentive that these unscrupulous people have, 20% of the cost of 1 protein unit per ton. If I had thoughts of delaying making my own feed, this has changed my mind. Thanks for the heads up.

melamine_in_feed.pdf

Isaanaussie

I am looking for a comfortable chair to sit and work on (computer).

Only one way to go. Buy a steel framed office chair. Forget the plastic armrests, steel... The wheels will be the weak link. So adjust to the height you want then apply epoxy glue to the wheel unit and the chair frame before the threads bugger up. Forget gas lifts unless you like the inevitable sinking feeling, get one with a metal threaded height adjustment, yes by turning the seat around. I got lucky and found one in a local market 900 baht, you will probably be best of going of an office supply shop.

Maybe together with a desk....

I want to be able to put my legs under the desk without squeezing - farang size......

It does not have to be impressive. But it should be comfortable, solid, if there are drawers, they should be gliding smoothly ...

Two sorts in most Thai shops.

1. MDF or particle board crap that will absorb moisture faster than any sponge and look like a banana within a month or two. Dont bother, unless disassemble it, glue it together and add some stiffening ribs to stop it sagging.

2. "Craftsman Made" from solid timber. Usually made from green red wood and will warp. The joinery is bad and will fall apart as the rubbish glue most use is also expected to fill the huge gaps in the joins. The talcum powder and PVC filler used to fill blemishes will crack and fall out and the vanish will peel off. The drawers will distort and the runners are cheap and the plastic wheels will fall off the rivets that hold them together when you try to open the bent drawers. Expensive crap that doesn't grow old gracefully, leave them where they are, too bloody heavy to lift anyway.

Now I want something better. Where should I look for it - in or near Khon Kaen?

Sorry I'm in Sisaket can't help with that one.

Any suggestions would be welcome.

I would suggest that you get yourself a decent desk plan with a cutting list and go buy the timber, then either build it yourself or have it made. If in doubt, buy timber from the house salvage yards not the new lumber yards. It is old and seasoned and if straight now is now likely to move much. You can get it machined down at any woodworking shop for next to nothing. If budget or time constraints are an issue then consider using decent 19mm solid ply. A single 8' x 4' sheet will give you most of the timber you will need. Use a good quality oil based timber finish, like ICI external finish for doors, many light brush coats (50% thinner) and cut back to get a decent finish.

Stores like Home Pro have ball bearing drawer runners and a reasonable range of latches and locks.

I build my own furniture for all the reasons above, plus it is a hobby of mine. I have a simple ply sheet with a 2x1" frame that is screwed to the wall for my workstation. There are only the front legs to maneouver around, those I cut out of an old door frame. A simple routed timber edge around the desk top improves the finish. It is a step away from the mission style of stuff I usually make from teak but adequate.

Isaanaussie

Soybeans sprouting in the pods, a lot of rice knocked down and laying in the water. These poor farmers are having no luck at all. If I were depending on earning a living farming, I would likely be suicidal.

Not enough rain early in the growing season and WAY too much rain in the "dry" (?) season. Many will be cutting and bundling rice while standing in water. Dikes were cut a couple of weeks ago but there is no where for the water to drain to.

Gary,

Forget the "will be" about standing in the water to cut rice. BIL "is" standing in the water right now.

Looking ahead, at least the ground water will make preparing the ground of dry season cropping a bit easier. Still got the paddle wheels on the Yanmar?

I suppose we should spare a thought for our fellows trying to make a baht with the rice harvesters at the moment. How is it going guys?

Isaanaussie

There are few people in Malaria "hot spots" that take such medications. IMHO it is better to look at this from a preventative stand point. Mosquito nets, repellant sprays and lotions and long sleeve/leg clothing make much more sense. Keep the defensive external to your body is my advice.

Isaanaussie

Just saw TNN news, and it looked like a goverment agency were testing the carbon output of Trucks and pick-ups that were black-smoking a lot, .

Mrs is sleeping so does anybody know what will happen to those vehicles that are guilty? does the owner get time to fix it and then re-tested?

Udon Thani is a nice city, better air quality would make it nicer, Thanks, Lickey.

Lickey,

If the efforts in Bangkok are a guide then yes, the driver gets a five hundrad baht fine and two weeks to affect repairs (from memory) and then has to report to the testing station to be reinspected. The vehicles had a coloured sticker glued to the windscreen to ensure they would report.

A neighbour was stopped and his pickup tested. The policemen said it wasnt too bad but the result was outside the limit and he applied the sticker and the lash tax. The BIB then told by friend to stick a garden hose up the exhaust, rev the engine as hard as you can and then apply full water pressure for several minutes. This cleans the exhaust out and produces lower emissions for long enough to get to the police station and pass the test. In fact it lowered the black smoke level quiet a lot, for a day or so, and since the test gear had been moved elsewhere (strangely on the day the friend was rechecked) there was nothing but a visual check done. Sticker removed, problem solved.

And who says the BIB hasn't got the publics best interests at heart?

Isaanaussie

Isaan; by low cost crops, I was referring to low labor cost, not the product, could have make that much clearer. Agree with your concept entirely. I have attempted to convey this to Thai family but todate not much success. I have a sister in law and her husband who listen and are starting to implement in this type of thinking. Now if I could just get the wife to listen...... Naw too exhausting and time consuming, I will just have a cool one, less hassel

It is a challenge to try to introduce integrated farming here, luckily my wife sees the reasoning. Most villagers just see one crop/issue, one outcome at a time. The KISS principle. If retail fert or feed prices are too high, don't use them.... most take the easiest way. There are always fish in the klong and fruit on the trees, uncomplicated life, who says they are wrong?

Your cool one policy is something followed here as well...

Isaanaussie

Slapout,

You mentioned growing "low cost crops", I will beg to differ on this. I will be growing crops that are expensive to buy as finished product. The cheap stuff, no value growing it. The real saving is in the value adding activities, turning the raw material into feed components. As a backup, any excess has potential for sale at a reasonable return.

Isaanaussie

Isaan; Since you are raiseing rice at present and you want a low cost crop for pigs, have you considered peanuts? I know some of the farmers would plant peanuts within a pig proof fence (electric fence will work) and instead of harvesting, would turn pigs out free range for a few hours a day. The porkers will eat the vines and root out the nuts. Problem was to entice the pigs out of the peanut patch, seemed a bucket of fermented grain was a good porker magnet. The pigs are being fattened up, you save harvest labor cost, and those suckers will root up the whole area, eating most everything green, use rotaryhoe and you have a new crop seed base. Just a thought for everyone to pick apart. I have lived in and been married to a Thai since 92 so I am used to being critized for my farang ideas.

Slapout,

As a matter of fact I have. We have just harvested a small patch of peanuts with the objective of oil extraction and press cake into pig feed. I have watched locals who let their 2 or 3 pigs out to forage and then try to get them back inside the pen, when you consider the effort of wrestling a 200Kg boar back home then multiple that by 100 pigs, narrrr.... easier to dig the bloody peanuts or whatever you are growing. Besides I would have to teach to spit out the oil before they swallow... even harder.

However if I left it to others to do, then it would sure be a laugh, a village wide "Greasy Pig Catching Contest"

Isaan; Yep back scratcher all tight.( ha) These and the larger models were proposed to farmers for above mentioned resons. The orginal intent was found in many cases to be counter productive or the cost did not seem to bring in additional revenue from the crops planted. The shortcomings included rapid loss of subsurfice mositure, to the depth of sub soil pentration, thus more plant stress during dry season, some people felt neutrients avaliable to plant root system was reduced via leaching, as the typical root system for products from the farm do not penatrate to this depth (2 to 3 foot) The concept was modified, as Lickey and I mentioned and it became a brush clearing device. It worked good on large projects which reutilize pasture, sage brush etc, land to crop production, throughout the western part of the US. As the soils appear deeper here in Thailand and prolonged dry seasons are not the norm, add in the large rainfall amounts during the wet season, I doubt the disadvantages would be nearly as noticeable here.

Slapout,

I agree with your comments. Admittedly there are crop based applications that utilise subsoilers effectly here such as the sugar cane growers. But I am involved in small holding Isaan farming and the equipment simply is not justified.

About 6 years ago, I had 12 rai of paddy fields cleared. It had the normal trees growing on mounds of dirt that just seem to multiply like wire coat hangers in your warerobe. The paddy bunds needed to be rebuilt and a small dam dug.

So with massive tree roots and mounds of earth to be moved it seemed like a job for "Super Ripper". Unfortunately he must have been called away to help somewhere else. The job was done as it always has been by a fleet of 6610's (5) with blades and 7 disc ploughs and a Macro working together. Local machines, local prices, increased yields.

I am not planning to plant cassava on this land but do need to increase its output. A single rice crop and 60,000 baht return simply is not an answer.

I am intending to grow feed crops for my pigs in the dry season and if possible dig a 1.5 rai dam for irrigation water/fish, all focused on feed self sufficiency to reduce retail purchasing.

I am thinking a box scrapper with "Back Scratching" tynes will probably a be required purchase if we decide to grow rice again next year. My tractor has a FEL fitted not a blade. In the meanwhile, with the amount of late rain, my 5 disc plough and rotary hoe will handle preparing the ground. Immediate purchase/build need will be for a bed maker or hiller. A potato digger would be handy right now, but havent been able to find one

Thoughts on these issues would be welcome.

Isaanaussie

Dave,

From experience here in Thailand the only people who can fix your problem is the PEA. So too me, the best advice is to go to the electricity company with a three fold strategy:

1. Touch in cheek

2. Worried Smile on the face

3. Ready to have a lot of hands in your pocket

You will get dicked around by all the experts for ages, be prepared to be the gullible farang and pay for what you want.

Issanaussie

JB,

How deep is the compacted layer on this land? In my experience test holes are usually dug to determine this. If deeper than the intended root system then perhaps an unneccessary and expensive operation.

I also wondered whether a bulldozer wouldn't be a better option for large acreage deep ripping work?

On a lighter note, I attach a picture of my size "Ripper". Category 1 back scratcher

Isaanaussie

JB,

With current prices down, I wonder why cassava is being planted. As a value added crop, for the starch industry OK 9-10 baht OK, as a root crop delivered to the plant 4-5 baht, depends on distance I suppose. But the 1.4 -1.5 baht that is reportedly on offer locally near me in Isaan would make me think again about planting the stuff. Oil prices will increase but need to move up a long way because ethanol cost of production at 20 baht per litre is justified. I have not studied the starch industry here but understand it is large.

Can I suggest that you take a careful look at the industries using the crop before deciding on variety etc.. I would also consider producing dried chips which can be stored for sale at best price timing rather than crop harvest glut time. Animal feed, is another alternate which I have been revisiting at your suggestion. Ensiling the leaves is then an option.

I have attached the current prices charts from the Dept Internal Trade which show the cassava and tapioca prices at the end of October.

dit_crop_prices_oct_30_08.pdf

Isaanaussie

JB,

I would think that 4000 is possibly understated. Do the maths, 1 rai is 40x40 metres at about 700mm spacing matrix that would yeild 63x63 plantings, ie. 4000 per rai.

What I have seen is more dense than that.

Isaanaussie

Is the sub soiler what I am thinking of? It was developed several decades ago to cut deep (2 to 3 foot)with various spacing, usually 4 foot. The shoe (underground) was about 6 inches wide by 1 1/2 foot long. Just wondering as I had not heard the term sub soiler in a while.

Slapout,

In Australia they are called rippers. I wont go into the no-till debate, but the purpose is to break up the compacted layer of subsoil and improve water penetration. I have a 28HP tractor, against MF's 200+Hp goliath. I could pull 1 tine he can pull 8. I can break the surface, he can break a metre deep.

These devices are not mouldboard ploughs, they are not hillers or row makers. They are pointed instruments about an inch wide that rip the planet surface open.

How often does this need to happen before there is some form of coordination between provincial flood control authorities? Perhaps if the plans for flood control were raised in priority a bit against the government plans for industrialisation then the lot of the Thai farmer would be improved as well as the valued-added town and city dwellers.

This year, despite the promising start, forebodes a grim short to medium future for the Thai nation. For those of us that have been here long enough to remember the BOI rain clouds to sunshine four stage graphic, I fear history is about to repeat itself.

Not so many years ago over 60% of the Thai population were classified as farmers, so now with export outlook so bleak, where will the soon to be displaced "were" rural children go? The rice bowl will not be deep enough.....

PN,

Hold those thoughts I'll be up to see you soon enough. Current plan will be next week to see what is what, on current information maybe two weeks to harvest. I hope that this year is a good one for you. Both machines busy?

Isaanaussie

Hi Guys,

We are growing rain fed Hom Mali which is not yet ready to be harvested. Luckily we delayed our start as the early rains failed to eventuate. This year has been very difficult for rice farmers in our area. Rain has been intermittent as well as late. Much of the early planting was lost through lack of water. Many that wait until after mid-season rain to use selective herbicides on competing grasses got caught by too little rain before they acted meaning further losses. Now with the rice ready to harvest, albeit with lighter yields, it rains and rains and the wind blows and blows. Definitely not a good year to have borrowed at 3 baht rates for expensive fertilisers.

Hopefully we will get some sun in the next week. So I will continue singing the kids song ".......Out comes the sunshine to dry up all the rain, and itsy bitsy spider climbed the spout again". At times it seems that childish blind faith is the only thing left.

So I join you all in your thoughts for all the hard working Thai farmers out there.

Isaanaussie

Hi IsaanAussie,

Lao farmers have had good results feedings stylo to their pigs. Just put the following words into Google:

stylo pigs Lao PDR

You will also see that cassava leaves are high in protein.

For a source of stylo seed please see my other post today under the green manure thread.

Best regards,

JB.

Hi JB,

Thanks for that. Yes I have considered stylo and studied a number of reports that show reasonable results. In fact had another look this morning. I can get the same result with sweet potato vines for protein and the roots for energy. I could also use soy beans and cut it before it seeds, same protein as the soybeans I have read.

Why sweet potato? Well the sillage is good both roots and vines, and keeps well. Plenty of labour to do the cutting and room to store the bags. Some good FAO reports on the topic. I have three sample crops in at the moment and plan to start playing in a week or so.

But the best thing is the fact that you get reasonable results growing it with minimum fertiliser, water and weeding. The vines can be harvested and fed two to three times during root formation and I can (hope to be able to) dig the roots with a simple potato digger. Poor mans potato.... great stuff.

Cassava, as a buyer maybe at current prices, however the foliage around us is well and truely spoken for. Poo Yai has both cassava growing and pigs, no contest.... Cassava root also has dietary inhibitors that are nastier than sweet potato, both can be got rid on by slicing, sun drying and short term shortage prior to feeding or ensiling.

Enough prattle, again thanks for the information. If your looking for a ham for SongKran next year let me know.

Tony

Smithson,

Have you thought about lining with clay or even with a cement/clay render? Just a thought..

OK guys,

So despite the differences in external appearance and internal organs, the feed staples are much the same.

To buy in bulk what are the current costs for cereal grains outside Bangkok?

Cost of soybean meal? This one is important.

Any ideas on premix mineral and vitaman supplements would help too?

Current purchases are running at about 1 tonne per month and with a life of three months on the premixed incredents, 1 tonne lots would be a maximum buy for me.

Slapout,

Thanks for the thoughts, often wondered if anyone was growing alfalfa here.

Unfortunately the pigs are are bit more demanding then the school scraps could supply. Kids in the local school are reknown for licking the bowl clean.

I will be running some trials on sweet potato silage soon. With the right protein addition it should replace maize. For now the commercial feed is the go as I am herd building, not growing yet. Now is the time to decide what crops to plant when the rice is harvested.

Isaanaussie