jcsmith

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Did you actually understand the article? Good grief, there is more to the planet than the USA and the rich western world. Did you not read the bit about poor countries continuing to use coal?

Which is why it is important to aid countries in the transition. It's one thing to tell countries that coal power is bad, but when they have large numbers of people without power, coal is a quick and easy solution. But it really starts with the largest offenders which is China and the U.S., as they are far and away the largest contributors to the problem. China is a huge contributor, but they are also taking steps in the right direction. The U.S. is a huge contributor when it comes to per person contributions, far higher than China or India, and moderately higher than Russia. 

@ThaiBeachLovers: To suggest that the only people who care about climate change are people in the political bubble or TVF users is off base. It's a huge issue to a lot of people. But you did hit the nail on the head in saying that many people don't care because it won't affect them... but it will affect their children and grandchildren, and the longer we wait the harder it will become to stave off its effects. And governments can not ignore it simply because the average citizen may not want to believe in it because doing so will affect everyone worldwide. It's a very serious issue that needs serious attention.

It starts with reducing the emissions and moving to clean energy. Yes, alternate forms of energy are more expensive currently. But they are renewable and the cost will become more efficient once an infrastructure is in place. You can't sacrifice the future to save a few bucks in taxes.

There are solutions to help remove carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. But we can only remove so much. Basalt also seems to show promise from early studies. Home devices which store solar power are also promising (Tesla recently announced some roofing shingles which will do so and are cheaper than traditional materials). Mirrors or shades in space are another solution which has been floated by scientists.

Science in general though is making new discoveries faster than at any time in human history and that will continue to grow. Each breakthrough opens up new opportunities. Given time there are solutions which may be able to solve these problems. But if we ignore them it may too late by the time they are discovered. 

Double post removed.

16 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The current regime of "scientists" purges anyone who doesn't agree with them - their funding is removed - so anyone who wants to work in the field must say the Emperor is wearing clothes - and don't let all the lying predictions that haven't come true fool you.  Don't let the hacked-emails where they conspire to lie to us fool you.  Don't let the cooling temperatures or expanding ice fool you.  Just believe in it (as in 'religious belief'), while calling it "science."

I'm sorry but your buying into propaganda here. What exactly would be science's agenda behind concocting this hoax? Now what would be the interest for others to try to disprove the scientific claims? One side obviously has a lot more to gain here. Nobody wants to spend billions of dollars cleaning up problems that don't exist. But there are companies who are profiting money by trying to discredit science. 

There are phases of drastic cooling and drastic heating but the temperature is not cooling and the ice is not expanding. I'd suggest reading this page: http://climate.nasa.gov/ as they have some nice recaps on the situation. But in direct response to your quote above:
 

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All three major global surface temperature reconstructions show that Earth has warmed since 1880.⁵ Most of this warming has occurred since the 1970s, with the 20 warmest years having occurred since 1981 and with all 10 of the warmest years occurring in the past 12 years.

2 minutes ago, claffey said:

Can you present some statistics to back this claim up?  Surely the air pollution in China and India is more horrific than in the US? Delhi recently had to close down for three days because of it...

This was aimed at someone else but there's a good chart here from a Berkley study:  http://berc.berkeley.edu/ranking-global-warming-contributions-by-country/

4 minutes ago, i claudius said:

No 97% OF SCIENTISTS DO NOT BELIEVE IT ,CHECK YOUR FACTS MY FRIEND .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveys_of_scientists'_views_on_climate_change

97% believe that global warming is happening. 84% believe that it is man induced. 74% believe that the scientific evidence substantiates that.

17 minutes ago, i claudius said:

Climate change equels more taxes , to be blunt i dont think any of those at the top care as long as they can screw us for more money , yes there is climate change , there always has been , thats why you could grow grapes in the UK in the middle ages , and its why half the world was covered in ice once .

Man is having an affect on it though. Yes, there has always been climate change. Yes, there will likely be more ice ages. But also yes, it will be very destructive for our society. And yes, we can do some things to help stave off or prevent it. Ignoring it will only accelerate the issues which will bring our society to disaster.

97% of scientists know this is legitimate. Yet somehow random posters, or right wing lobbyists try to convince us that they know more.

4 minutes ago, DiamondKing said:

All you guys spouting Carbon Dioxide WHAT A BUNCH OF TOSH 

Do you how much CD is in the Air ???????

 

Not even 1%

 

GET REAL 

Which may be the highest its been in 20 million years. It continues to grow at a rapid rate and is one of the largest contributors to global warming. 

6 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

Have you honestly just called me a Nazi? 

 

Protests are either peaceful or they are not. There is ample video evidence on YouTube that demonstrates quite clearly your protests have not been peaceful. 

 

End of story. It actually ended on election night. 

 

No I said your move to try to silence people from speaking is straight out of the Nazi playbook, which it was. Just today we have Trump condemning the Hamilton cast (when Pence didn't seem to take any issue with it) again, as well as attacking SNL for making fun of him. Would any other president have ever done that? And yes the protests have been largely peaceful. There are protests happening all over the nation, how many have actually had incidents of rioting? There is also plenty of evidence caused by Trump supporters, but you are waiting until people are convicted while gladly blaming all of the protesters for a small amount of isolated incidents where things got out of control.... There's a nice recap of that situation at CNN here: http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/10/us/post-election-hate-crimes-and-fears-trnd/index.html and there are hate crimes on both sides. Those type of incidents in both cases are vastly in the minority. 

3 hours ago, Linzz said:

 

Perhaps he forgot to add,  "go on trashing shops and cars and beating up anyone who looks like a Trump voter and if they didn't too bad because too many did so it's good to make examples out there just to make the point against those who  insulted my legacy. At least that way I can obtain some vicarious satisfaction"

You may have forgotten to say it, but it's a falsehood to say it too. Most of the protests have been peaceful. There has been some looting and rioting in some protests, but that is not the norm. Neither is beating up anyone who looks like a Trump supporter. And if you want to walk that line then you have to also acknowledge all of the hate crimes coming from Trump supporters.

5 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

 

Apparently you do not realize that it is against the law to work "under the table" and any American doing so is subject to severe penalties for failing to report income. 

 

I do find it interesting that you advocate such exploitive practices against undocumented workers who are left as victims in such arrangements and provided no OSHA or workplace safety or any other protections. 

I'm not advocating anything. I'm pointing out the fallacy in the statement that they are illegals are stealing American jobs. However if you were out of work and among the 5% unemployed and you really wanted work you can certainly find it. McDonalds is always hiring. And you can always go work one of the jobs available to illegal migrants if you truly want to. Americans don't want those jobs, they'd probably prefer unemployment instead in most cases. That's fine, but understanding that to be true then it throws a monkey wrench in the argument that they are stealing your jobs.

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The US does not need illegal workers as they have a high unemployment level.

 

The fact seems to be that illegals are wanted by employers to exploit them, and the Dems as future voters. Far better to pay wages that will attract the unemployed, and make up any shortfall in labour with guest workers at proper rates of pay, so as not to falsely skew election results.

The U.S. unemployment rate is at around 5% currently which is not a high level for a developed country. Illegal immigrants are taking jobs that basically nobody else wants. Those same jobs are available to anyone who wants them, get paid under the table, but most people simply do not want those jobs. 

It is those protesters constitutionally protected freedoms that give them the right to do so. They can't force him out of office. But they absolutely can voice their opinions. And many of them are there because of the threat that Trump poses to their lives. As I said before this isn't about your average policies. It isn't about political parties. It is about a President-elect whose policies (if he implements them) would have serious negative affects on a large portion of the population.

I'm certainly not in support of people rioting or committing acts of violence, but protesting is a different story. Considering Trump himself called for protests four years ago after Obama won (whose policies would have far less of a negative affect on anyone), it is amusing to me that so many of you think the protests are uncalled for. 

As for the Nazi statement, burning books and silencing critics was their approach to prevent knowledge or outside ideas from spreading. The real question though is why are people trying to tell others that they should no longer voice their opinions simply because they disagree with them? And that's only coming from one direction. 

48 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

 

One thing I am not sure you are understanding is we are hearing your voices and finding them offensive to our sense of fair play. Amongst politicians there is no such thing as fair play; however, at the personal level that we conservatives live our daily lives, fair play is integral and we don't see the protestors as sharing that value set.  Values are importsnt to us.

 

We don't need to be warned. The President-Elect does not need to be warned. The simple fact is you have no choice but to "roll over" in the same way we Republicans had to "roll over" when Obamacare was forced upon us. Your only avenue to protest now comes on the Senate floor.  Welcome to what is called the grown-up world where you don't always get what you want. 

 

The election is over. Trump won. The Republicans won. That was the message. Republicans got the message. We are scratching our heads trying to understand why you (in a collective sense) are still not getting it. Do you, collectively, just have so little experience with the political process to not understand its over and the losing party voices now don't get to be heard until the next election? 

 

The tone of your entire post is sort of comical to this old geezer. It attempts to suggest we should have some kind of fear of you. If you will accept a bit of wisdom on the matter, obama is now done. The DoJ will no longer be used to further a political agenda. Law & Order will now be returning to the Land. Blocking traffic, burning cars and businesses, looting and other acts against society will once again be considered criminal acts and land you in jail.

You may be hearing it and finding it offensive, not everyone does. As far as values... What are exactly are those values in supporting Trump? Values like grabbing them by the snatch? Values like trying to ban an entire religion from entering the country? Like trying to rehabilitate homosexuals? Like trying to criminalize abortion? Or is it just like not protesting. Consider that Trump called for protests after Obama won in 2012 election...

I think you are confusing things here with regards to protests and the reason for them. There's a big difference between Obamacare and banning groups of people. Huge difference don't you think? Trump is being protested because of his radical policies and the negative affect that they will have on a lot of people. If Romney had won for example in 2012, there wouldn't be mass protests. Trump is a completely different situation.

Again your trying to silence an opinion. Straight out of the Nazi playbook. I gave my opinion like I always do, and then have now had to have like four posts justifying my right to give an opinion. And of course your leap to suddenly trying to call protesters criminal when they have largely been peaceful.

Politicians absolutely do need to fear the people. They rely on votes to stay in office. As far as individual Trump supporters, I never said or stated anything like that, another leap on your part. I'm absolutely against bully tactics or any type of violent protests. That isn't going to solve anything. I'd much rather discuss issues with people and try to influence them in that way. When the facts aren't on your side though, some people will turn to try to silence them.

@ClutchClark and Gary A:

Protests are a way for people to have their voices heard. They send a message that warns that people won't just roll over if he truly tries to enact some of his more radical ideas. They are a message to Trump, his supporters, and to politicians. It's a message to Republicans who may soon find themselves in a position where they either need to stick with the party and vote on some very questionable policies, or if they want to stand against them.

As far as message boards and what good does it do, there are some guys who will support Trump no matter what. There are others who didn't like Hillary, simply voted Republican, etc. I've had many people tell me things leading up to the election like asking to show them proof that Trump was a bigot, etc. They felt like he was just putting on a show, and that when he got into power it would be business as usual. As he continues to fill his cabinet with questionable individuals, as the racial tension grows, some of those individuals are going to start questioning if they made the right choice. Them having as much information as possible will help them make that choice. Silence in this case means acceptance. There are a lot of people who won't accept bigotry. They won't accept the U.S. closing their eyes on climate change and destroying the planet. And it is their right not to accept it and to make their voice heard. It's funny when people are happy to hear some opinions, but want silence when it comes to others. It's a message board, it's intended for these types of discussions.

I personally doubt Trump makes it through four years. He's too much of a loose cannon, has too much dirt. He'll eventually step in it the wrong way and will wind up being impeached. Normally he'd be safe from that with Republicans owning congress, but he has a lot of enemies on the Republican side as well, who would probably be happier dealing with Pence than Trump. The protests are a reminder to everyone that a large portion of America is not on board with the alt-right policies and that will matter if it comes to that.

13 minutes ago, fasteddie said:

And yet even scaremongers like NASA say the opposite

 

https://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/antarctic-sea-ice-reaches-new-record-maximum

That's an old article. Here's one from NASA 2 days ago: https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/nasa-nears-finish-line-of-annual-study-of-changing-antarctic-ice

A quote from that...

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Antarctica is heading into austral summer, a period of rapid sea ice melt in the Southern Ocean. But this year the sea ice loss has been particularly swift and the Antarctic sea ice extent is currently at the lowest level for this time of year ever recorded in the satellite record, which began in 1979.

And the all-encompassing NASA opinion on climate change here: http://climate.nasa.gov/  and if you want the quick path to see that they are aware and recognize it visit this page: http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

Some NASA quotes:
 

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Global sea level rose about 17 centimeters (6.7 inches) in the last century. The rate in the last decade, however, is nearly double that of the last century.⁴

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All three major global surface temperature reconstructions show that Earth has warmed since 1880.⁵ Most of this warming has occurred since the 1970s, with the 20 warmest years having occurred since 1981 and with all 10 of the warmest years occurring in the past 12 years.

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Since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, the acidity of surface ocean waters has increased by about 30 percent.^12,13 This increase is the result of humans emitting more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere and hence more being absorbed into the oceans. The amount of carbon dioxide absorbed by the upper layer of the oceans is increasing by about 2 billion tons per year.¹

1 hour ago, Gary A said:

 

And what are they going to do about it besides upset friends and family?

 Make their voice heard. Try to influence people who feel otherwise. This is a discussion forum is it not?

4 hours ago, IAMHERE said:

Why America and a few others would get themselves on the hook for that kind of money and absolutely nothing to show for it other than fleeting goodwill is beyond me.

Because of they don't we're headed towards disaster which will cost much more than that investment.

21 minutes ago, ALLSEEINGEYE said:

she says not to worry about the profit or loss? 

 

Is that because her profit was the country's loss?

And where is that profit? It has not been shown that she benefited in any way from this. She's being asked to pay for corruption that other people committed because she was in charge at the time. 

2 hours ago, Gary A said:

We should feel sorry for those who live here in Thailand, worry and fret about an election in the US.

Considering those people almost certainly have friends and family living in the U.S., and that U.S. policies will affect them, they should be concerned by what the U.S. does. 

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

 

Ironic that what you post is close to a duplication of the broad scenario in the paymasters hayday of building a dictatorship.

 

Reporters and journalists afraid to ask question, afraid to write analysis, afraid they would be sued into bankruptcy,  paymaster had two batttons;  'yes; and 'no' to indicate whether he would answer questions.

 

And let's not forget the infamous case where a foreign journalist asked him an awkward question, paymasters verbal response  was 'idiot scum' and the journalist was deported the next day.  

 

How does all of that work for you in regard to human rights?

I have no clue what you are talking about lol.

39 minutes ago, Tawan Dok Krating Daeng said:

 

I hardly think that quoting Sarah Palin helps move your fake claims any further to credibility. If what you claimed was happening to electors is true, then there would be report in the main stream media for the main stream viewer who understands that main stream journalists have a responsibility to confirm and check.

There is no doubt it's happening, it's caught on tape in many cases. It's also happening both ways, CNN has done a good job to make sure to point out the attacks on Trump supporters, as well. The problem here is that Trump's campaign stoked these fires. You have a racist element that has always been there but who were afraid to come out and speak publicly as they would be frowned upon, but Trump has brought them out of the shadows. Not all Trump supporters fall into that category of course, but on the opposite side there are some people who feel they do and who may have been racist against white people to begin with and this gives them justification (in their mind) to get out of line. For the sake of argument let's assume that's it's 50/50 in that regard. The problem is that the issue was still created by Trump. It was the danger of running a campaign the way he did. It's create a divide that is going to be difficult to heal.

The alt-right news networks though are really nothing more than propaganda. The only people who view are like-minded individuals, it isn't meant to be real news. Mainstream news networks want viewers from both sides, they are going to paint a more accurate picture (though they will also look to find things that bring in more viewers or readers).

That 3 year old article is completely dated. Almost all scientists now believe that climate change is happening at this stage. 

So other countries won't abide, why should America? Well America is the worst. The US right now bears the largest amount of blame for these problems, followed by China and Russia. This issue affects everyone, it affects the entire world. If Trump tries to pull out here, there will be repercussions internationally and for future generations.

Cleaner energy solutions are a win/win. They will help stave off global warming. They will make for a healthier living environment. They will be cheaper over the long run for consumers. They will only hurt the big business which is profiting from fossil fuels. 

3 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

Lets not try to cast the whole population that voted for trump as extreme right wing white nutjobs.

You definitely can't do that. But at the same time, those who did vote for Trump were well aware of his thoughts and beliefs. So casting your vote for the guy says that you are okay with all that because you agree with him on some other issues. It says that you're okay with the U.S. banning muslims from entering the country (I don't think this will actually happen BTW, but he has floated the idea), that you are okay with him surrounding himself with racist individuals whose fan base is comprised of like-minded people, that you could care less about impending environmental nightmares, that you're fine with people 50,000 people dying every year from a lack of health care so you can trim a few bucks off your premium, that you are fine with made up statistics and repeated lies from the commander in chief, and that your okay with the head of government insulting and attacking random people and being a complete jerk. What makes this election different from previous elections is that to many people on the opposing side they take a look at all of the above and think if someone is okay with all of that, then I'm not okay with them. That's why the divide is so large right now. Because large portions of both sides want absolutely nothing to do with one another.

5 hours ago, Wilsonandson said:

Well as long as Thailand remains peaceful and content let's leave the election date up to the current government. But, yes there does need to be an election or this uncertainty of what the future brings will linger and cause more worry for the people and the economy.

You can't just bury your head in the sand as people have their human rights trampled upon. The junta is completely unchecked. People can not speak their mind without fear of attitude adjustment. It's peaceful because the people with all the guns are setting the rules and everyone else has no choice but to abide by them and no way to change it.