TallGuyJohninBKK

The abovementioned BBC article on the UK's early flu season: Health officials worried as flu season comes five weeks early "The UK's winter flu season has begun five weeks earlier than usual, health officials are warning. The UK Health Security Agency said cases were rising quickly among children and young people – and warned the virus would soon start to spread across older age groups. The organisation urged people eligible for the flu vaccine to come forward to get protected. But they said it was too early to say how difficult and serious this year's flu season would be." ... Two of the worst winter flu seasons of the past decade have been seen in the last three years, something partly attributed to the bounce-back of the virus after Covid restrictions and when immunity has been low." (more) https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c20pe6llg2zo

England's Covid wave recedes but is replaced by flu Oct 31, 2025 "A quick update on the latest Covid situation in England. It’s mixed news. The good news is the that significant Covid wave we saw in September/October is definitely on its way down. The bad news is that my worries of an early Flu season have been realised and we are definitely seeing a Flu wave at least a month earlier than normal. The BBC even ran an article about the early Flu season today. They quote the UK Health Security Agency as saying that at the moment cases are mostly in children and young people, but that pressures on hospitals will rise as more older adults become infected. The best case scenario for the winter is that this flu wave will be ‘normal’-sized, just shifted a few weeks earlier, and that there won’t be another Covid wave this winter. The worst case scenario is that this is just the start of a terrible flu season, RSV joins the party in November and Covid might make a December/January comeback. While the best case scenario is certainly possible, it is worrying that Japan has already declared a major early flu epidemic and has even closed many schools to try to control the spread. What to do About 50% of over 75s have received their free annual Covid vaccine and about 60% of over 65s have received their free annual Flu vaccine. I really do encourage those eligible to get vaccinated! And for those who are not eligible for the free vaccine(s), the Covid vaccine is expensive privately (£80-£90, although I still intend to get it) but the Flu vaccine is a lot less (£15-£20). Many pharmacies offer a walk-in service and the Flu vaccine will last the whole flu season, so please consider it if you can afford it!" Making Sense of blog https://christinapagel.substack.com/p/englands-covid-wave-recedes-but-is by Christina Pagel Prof of Operational Research in Health Care, UCL [University College London], UK. ... Member of Independent SAGE since May 2020. Full academic bio: https://profiles.ucl.ac.uk/4185

... "Updated findings reaffirm that immunizations are associated with a substantial reduction in the risk of severe outcomes across populations, with only infrequent reports of key severe vaccine-related safety events, such as myocarditis and Guillain–Barré syndrome. Although effectiveness estimates of approximately 40% against hospitalization in some populations (e.g., Covid-19 vaccines in immunocompromised persons and influenza vaccines in adults) may appear to be modest, they still represent substantial reductions in severe outcomes at the population level and are similar to the efficacy and effectiveness of influenza vaccines that was seen during the past 15 years.145 ... Immunizations against Covid-19, RSV, and influenza have shown consistent effectiveness and safety and are associated with a substantially reduced risk of hospitalization and severe disease across populations. These findings underscore the enduring value of immunization against respiratory viruses as a cornerstone of preventive care and support the feasibility of maintaining rigorous, evidence-based guidance during periods of institutional disruption." (more) https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsa2514268

Meta-analysis of COVID, RSV, flu vaccines for fall provides 'sea of data' showing efficacy, safety October 30, 2025 "A meta-analysis of 511 studies on US COVID-19, respiratory syncytial virus (RSV), and influenza vaccines find meaningful protection against severe disease and hospitalization, evidence that can help fill the void in vaccine guidance formerly provided by independent federal review. The large-scale project, conducted by the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy's (CIDRAP's) Vaccine Integrity Project (VIP), was published today in the New England Journal of Medicine. CIDRAP, which publishes CIDRAP News, started the VIP to provide science-based information to help people, communities, policymakers, and clinicians make informed vaccine choices. ... The team found that XBB.1.5-adapted COVID-19 mRNA vaccines had a pooled vaccine effectiveness (VE) against hospitalization of 46% to 50% among adults and 37% in immunocompromised adults (those with weakened immune systems). A case-control study of KP.2-adapted COVID-19 vaccines showed a VE of 68%. ... RSV prevention was especially strong, with pooled estimates of 68% for maternal vaccination protecting infants, 83% for the monoclonal antibody preventive nirsevimab in infants, and 79% for RSV vaccination against hospitalization in older adults. The pooled VE of the flu vaccine against hospitalization was 48% in adults and 67% in children across networks and countries." (more) https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/meta-analysis-covid-rsv-flu-vaccines-fall-provides-sea-data-showing-efficacy-safety

If you're covered by standard Medicare in the U.S., the shingles vaccine is free there. Sounds like the same in the UK: Shingles vaccine A shingles vaccine is available on the NHS for: people who turned 65 on or after 1 September 2023 people aged 70 to 79 who have not yet been vaccinated people aged 18 and over with a severely weakened immune system The vaccine helps reduce your risk of getting shingles. https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/shingles/

Notice the recurring theme with all of the above-cited anti-vaxer sources that get posted here: ''regularly published false or egregiously misleading claims about health and vaccines." "generally fails to maintain basic standards of accuracy and accountability." These are the anti-vaxers bibles.

Meanwhile, the anti-vaxers here are posting content from these types:

Per the separate source credibility evalutating site NewsGuard:

Candace Owens? Paul Joseph Watson? Candace Amber Owens Farmer (née Owens; born April 29, 1989) is an American political commentator and author. Her political positions have mostly been described as far-right or conservative. She has promoted numerous conspiracy theories. ... Owens has expressed skepticism about the extent of white supremacy's impact on society and has voiced opposition to both COVID-19 lockdowns and COVID-19 vaccines. ... Owens has promoted misinformation about COVID-19 vaccines.[200] In a December 2021 interview, she asked Donald Trump about vaccine mandates, and he explained that he shared her views on mandates but said that "the vaccine is one of the greatest achievements of mankind". He added: "The ones that get very sick and go to the hospital are the ones that don't take the vaccine. But it's still their choice. And if you take the vaccine, you're protected. Look, the results of the vaccine are very good, and if you do get it, it's a very minor form. People aren't dying when they take the vaccine."[201][202][203] In December 2022, Owens promoted the anti-vaccine film Died Suddenly." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candace_Owens Paul Joseph Watson (born 24 May 1982)[1] is a British YouTuber, radio host and conspiracy theorist.[6] In 2002 he began working at the American radio host Alex Jones's website InfoWars,[7] where Watson promoted and advocated for 9/11, chemtrail and New World Order conspiracy theories. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Joseph_Watson These are the heroes of anti-vaxers.

I think you'd be better served addressing your concerns to forum members who repeatedly post dreck here from sources like these:

The OP report was based on data from the Bank of Thailand, which looked at the tourism numbers in the context of their impact on the broader Thai economy...as bankers tend to do! Hence the related inclusion of info on the government's plans to spend 10 BILLION baht buying up bad debts....

The huge private party loan sharking business in Thailand is a terrible thing that entraps financially need people in super high interest rate debt burdens from which they virtually never can recover. That said, once the government buys out 10 billion baht in bad debits (assuming they do), what's to prevent the same or similar people from going out and wracking up new debts again buying extravagances and things not essential to their lives and well-being? More broadly, since when did it become the government's role to spend public tax dollars to buy out bad debts that were issued by lenders who presumably vetted their borrowers before giving them the money... Doesn't any of the culpability for these bad debts fall back onto the private parties that made the bad lending decisions in the first place??? Just asking....

All of the above are the best reasons I can imagine for people in general, and especially people in high risk groups like senior citizens and young children, to get their seasonal flu vaccines.

Vaccine Misinformation Outpaces Efforts to Counter It January 16, 2024 "Misinformation about vaccines has proliferated on social media where it has led to rising levels of vaccine hesitancy at a faster rate than interventions are addressing it, according to a study led by a researcher at Columbia University Mailman School of Public Health. Some interventions to counter vaccine misinformation on social media have been beneficial, but very few test their effect on real-world behaviors. The findings are published in the peer-reviewed journal BMJ' Anti-vaccine misinformation is as old as vaccines themselves, but anti-vaccine campaigns have proliferated in recent years on social media—particularly since the start of the COVID-19 pandemic. This misinformation targets all kinds of vaccines, including childhood vaccines, COVID-19, flu, HPV, and more. While vaccine hesitancy can stem from many sources, including mass media and political rhetoric, as well as genuine safety concerns, there is ample evidence that a proliferation of anti-vaccine messages on social media increased vaccine hesitancy and lowered vaccination rates over the same period that social media networks expanded. The return of measles after aggressive antivaccine campaigns prompted the World Health Organization to list vaccine hesitancy among the greatest threats to global health." https://www.publichealth.columbia.edu/news/vaccine-misinformation-outpaces-efforts-counter-it

METHODOLOGY INFO: "The KFF/Washington Post Survey of Parents includes interviews with a nationally representative sample of 2,716 parents or legal guardians of children under age 18 in the U.S. The survey was conducted between July 18-August 4, 2025, online, in English and Spanish, using the Ipsos KnowledgePanel. The margin of sampling error including the design effect for total sample of parents is plus or minus 2 percentage points. For results based on other subgroups, the margin of sampling error may be higher." https://www.kff.org/public-opinion/new-kff-washington-post-survey-explores-parents-trust-in-and-confusion-about-childhood-vaccines-as-the-trump-administration-revamps-federal-policies/

"Overall, we rate Kaiser Family Foundation Left-Center biased based on editorial positions that moderately align with a liberal perspective. We also rate them High for factual reporting due to pro-science reporting, credible sourcing, and a clean fact-check record." "The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation (KFF), or Kaiser Family Foundation, is headquartered in Menlo Park, California. It focuses on major national health care issues and the U.S.’s role in global health policy. The Foundation states that it is a non-partisan source of facts and analysis, polling, and journalism for policymakers, the media, the health care community, and the general public, and kff.org is known for having the “most up-to-date and accurate information on health policy. Kaiser is a reliable source for factual healthcare information but leans left in story selection and editorial direction." https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/kaiser-family-foundation/

Overview "The Survey of Parents is the 37th in a collaborative reporting series between KFF and The Washington Post, dating back to 1995, that combines survey research with in-depth journalism. Based on interviews with more than 2,700 parents, including more than 1,000 parents with children under age 6 who have had to make decisions about vaccines in the post-COVID era, this survey explores parents’ experiences with and views about vaccines for their children." https://www.kff.org/public-opinion/kff-the-washington-post-survey-of-parents/#d15aa02e-e59a-4297-bd0a-9b468a9051eb

Fake news and science denier attacks on vaccines. What can you do? "Never before has the public been so bombarded by information, nor has it ever been so difficult to know what and whom to believe. The critical importance of this problem is well illustrated by the World Health Organization (WHO) shining a bright light on the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic infodemic (1). Infodemic refers to a rapid and far-reaching spread of both accurate and inaccurate information. Misinformation (information that is false but not created with the intention of causing harm) and disinformation (or “fake news”; information that is false and deliberately created to cause harm) travel faster and farther than truth. Science deniers, including vaccine science deniers, have a strong and very effective platform now—the Web—from which to shill their scientifically-bankrupt wares (4). We, who understand the rigor of science and know the evidence supporting immunization for health and well-being, are often aghast at the falsehoods promulgated and—too often—accepted and acted upon by members of the public. ... Know the five tactics used widely, often with great vigor, by vocal vaccine deniers on the Web, in mainstream media and in public appearances (11😞 Conspiracies—drug companies, the government, the health system—pick your scapegoat—are out to trick the general public; they withhold information, lie and cover up “the truth” Fake experts—quote or use fake experts and vigorously denigrate, even decry, real experts Selectivity—refer to obscure and or discredited papers that support their argument but omit the vast science that refute it Impossible expectations—vaccine must be 100% safe and effective—and yet no medical intervention is 100% safe and effective ... Interestingly, once you know these tactics they are easy to recognize, as is evidenced by the fake news complaints and the misinformation and disinformation appearing almost daily in the mainstream and social media." (more) https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7799877/ By Noni E MacDonald Department of Paediatrics, Dalhousie University, IWK Health Centre, Halifax, NS

Key Findings "Large majorities of parents have positive views of long-standing childhood vaccinations for measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) and polio, saying these vaccines are important for children in their community to get (90% and 88%, respectively) and that they are confident they are safe for children (84% and 85%). About eight in ten parents support current state laws, saying students should be required to be vaccinated against measles and polio to attend public schools with some exceptions (81%). These views are consistent across partisan lines, with large majorities of parents who identify as Democrats, independents, and Republicans viewing MMR and polio vaccines as safe and important for children to get and supporting policies that require these vaccines in public schools. ... About nine in ten parents say it is important for children in their community to receive vaccines for MMR (90%) and polio (88%), including about seven in ten who say each is “very important” (70% and 68% respectively). A smaller share, but still a majority (56%) of parents say it is important for children in their community to be vaccinated against the flu, while fewer than half (43%) say the same about COVID-19, including one in five who say it is “very important.” https://www.kff.org/public-opinion/kff-the-washington-post-survey-of-parents/#c1001c76-8dd1-4230-8b89-58d04f9f1cba

It is a standard and common anti-vaxer ploy to seek out ONE or few cherry picked study results that supports their stance, even though those findings are contrary to what the vast and overwhelming scientific evidence and research shows on the same point. Such is the case here with the OP in this thread. "Cherry-picking is a central tactic used in vaccine misinformation to deliberately select and emphasize specific pieces of data that support a pre-determined anti-vaccine position while ignoring the vast body of contradictory evidence. This strategy manipulates information to create a misleading narrative that can sway public opinion and reinforce existing biases." --AI assist "Understanding the Cherry Picking Fallacy: How Selective Evidence Can Skew Your Argument" Updated Apr 14, 2024 "In the realm of critical thinking and persuasive argumentation, cherry picking is a term that describes a common error in logic and reasoning. It occurs when someone selectively presents evidence that supports their claim while ignoring or downplaying evidence that contradicts it. This fallacy can distort arguments, mislead audiences, and create a skewed perception of reality. In this article, we’ll explore the cherry picking fallacy in depth, providing examples, implications, and strategies for identifying and avoiding it in your own arguments." Key Characteristics of Cherry Picking Single Data Point vs. Broader Trends: Relying on isolated instances rather than larger trends or data sets. Ignoring Counterarguments: Failing to acknowledge evidence that contradicts one's position. Misleading Statistics: Presenting data in a way that gives a false impression of the overall situation, often through selective reporting. https://rephrasely.com/usage/cherry-picking-fallacy Message by the Director of the Department of Immunization, Vaccines and Biologicals at WHO - September 2025 "The tactics of anti-vaccine narratives are disturbingly familiar: they often promote conspiracies that portray governments, scientists, or pharmaceutical companies as corrupt; rely on spokespeople who claim to have expertise, who discredit legitimate science; cite cherry-picked studies that ignore the overwhelming majority of scientific evidence and consensus; misrepresent safety data especially from passive surveillance systems; set impossible targets that vaccines be 100% effective and have no risks no matter how rare; and use misrepresentations or flawed analogies designed to provoke emotional reactions rather than informed understanding." https://www.who.int/news/item/22-09-2025-message-by-the-director-of-the-department-of-immunization--vaccines-and-biologicals-at-who---september-2025

More detail and the original source on the above study as it pertains to flu vaccines: Influenza Adults 18 to 64 Years Years of Age "Three case–control studies showed a pooled influenza vaccine effectiveness of 48% (95% CI, 39 to 55) against hospitalization in this age group. ... Among 19 case–control studies, the pooled influenza vaccine effectiveness against medically attended infection was 49%. ... Adults 65 Years of Age or Older In adults who were 65 years of age or older, one case–control study showed an effectiveness for inactivated influenza vaccines of 53% (95% CI, 35 to 66) for the high-dose vaccine, 47% (95% CI, 41 to 53) for the adjuvanted vaccine, and 36% (95% CI, 23 to 47) for the standard-dose vaccine.59 Ten case–control studies of varied standard-dose vaccine formulations showed a pooled effectiveness of 42% (95% CI, 36 to 47) against hospitalization (Figure 3).29,48–51,55–59 Twenty case–control studies had a pooled influenza vaccine effectiveness of 41% (95% CI, 36 to 44) against medically attended infection (Table S6 and Fig. S6).49–51,55,56,59,63–67,69,71–73,76–78,80,81 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsa2514268

Parents still support vaccine mandates for measles, polio: Survey 09/04/25 "A new survey shows parents still overwhelmingly support vaccine mandates for measles and polio, as Florida moves to remove immunization requirements for school-aged children and other states consider changes to their laws. A Washington Post-KFF poll found that 81 percent of parents support requirements for measles and polio vaccines, while 18 percent do not. One percent of participants skipped the question. Vaccine enthusiasm remained high among parents from all parties: 75 percent of Republicans agreed that school-aged children should receive immunizations for measles and polio, and 80 percent of independent voters also supported the status quo, in addition to 91 percent of Democrats. In Flordia, the Post-KFF survey found 82 percent of parents said they believe public schools should require vaccines for measles and polio, with some health and religious exceptions, while 17 percent said schools shouldn’t require those vaccines. (more) The Hill https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/5486542-parents-still-support-vaccine-mandates-for-measles-polio-survey/

On that general point: The burden of Influenza 30 March 2024 "Every year, mainly during the winter season, seasonal influenza infects as many as 1 billion people. ...The flu vaccine is the best way to prevent infection and may reduce symptoms if you do get the flu. For those who are more vulnerable to flu, what we call ‘high risk groups’, the vaccine can save your life. ... WHO estimates that there are 3 to 5 million cases of severe illness and between 290 000 to 650 000 respiratory deaths annually." https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/the-burden-of-influenza

Pulling out the same old anti-vaxer ploy on RCTs for vaccines: "Although randomized placebo-controlled clinical trials are considered the “the gold standard” for measuring vaccine efficacy, they are expensive, and often pose ethical challenges. In addition, efficacy studies with influenza vaccines have a high risk of failure based on differences in attack rates and vaccine matches, resp. mismatches in different seasons. Therefore, the evaluation of VE by performing observational studies is increasingly considered to be a more appropriate approach than efficacy studies. Since 2004–2005, the most widely used method of estimating the VE of seasonal influenza vaccines has been the test-negative design (TND)." https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9143275/# Fool’s-gold science The ethical and scientific perils of testing most vaccines using placebo-controlled randomized trials "The US Department of Health and Human Services’ proposed imposition of placebo-controlled trials for testing most new and existing vaccines jeopardizes public health and puts trial participants at unnecessary and easily avoidable risks—a violation of both scientific and ethical standards." ... the proposed imposition of placebo-controlled randomized clinical trials (RCTs) as the gold standard is nothing but pyrite—”fool’s gold”. ... Placebo testing is therefore not appropriate for already approved vaccines and should only be done when no other options exist and a fatal epidemic is looming against which only a novel vaccine would be available." ... The suggestion by Kennedy Jr. and some of his supporters that the only valid method for producing credible evidence is a placebo-controlled RCT is false (Vogel, 2025). There are a variety of well-established methods that researchers in medicine regularly use to reliably test a scientific question. They form the basis of what scientific experts consider to be the rightful “gold standard” of science." https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12373718/ In layman's terms, the ethical issue with running trials where one group gets a vaccine and the other group gets nothing is you needlessly expose the second group to potential illness and death -- when other study methods are available that would NOT needlessly jeopardize participants' health.

Meta-analysis of COVID, RSV, flu vaccines for fall provides 'sea of data' showing efficacy, safety October 2025 A meta-analysis of 511 studies on US COVID-19, respiratory syncytial virus (RSV), and influenza vaccines find meaningful protection against severe disease and hospitalization, evidence that can help fill the void in vaccine guidance formerly provided by independent federal review. The large-scale project, conducted by the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy's (CIDRAP's) Vaccine Integrity Project (VIP), was published today in the New England Journal of Medicine. CIDRAP, which publishes CIDRAP News, started the VIP to provide science-based information to help people, communities, policymakers, and clinicians make informed vaccine choices. [leaving out the data on COVID and RSV vaccination effectiveness because that's off topic here] The pooled VE of the flu vaccine against hospitalization was 48% in adults and 67% in children across networks and countries. https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/meta-analysis-covid-rsv-flu-vaccines-fall-provides-sea-data-showing-efficacy-safety