TallGuyJohninBKK

The current increase in COVID-19 infections is seasonal, like other respiratory diseases, and will continue until the end of January, returning to normal between February and May, according to Dr. Yong Poovorawan, head of the Centre of Excellence in Clinical Virology at the Faculty of Medicine of Chulalongkorn University. He added that a new wave of infections will begin in June and last until September, dropping again by November. Like many respiratory conditions, such as flu, COVID tends to peak during the rainy season. (more) https://www.thaipbsworld.com/uptick-in-covid-19-infections-is-seasonal-will-drop-in-february/

So while you pretty much endorsed America's Mailbox service in South Dakota above, were you also suggesting/implying that you'd also run into some complications with some U.S. financial entities not accepting their addresses???

Yes, the exemption from foreign income tax liability in the future post Jan. 1, 2024 would only apply for the years / periods when the person actually held an LTR visa...

At one point in the chamber presentation, I believe, one of the panelists indicated that if foreigners here end up having to present financial documentation to the Revenue Department, that they'd be responsible for first having it translated into THAI!

And of course, according to the explanations given, all LTR visa holders are going to be exempt from the entire new foreign income taxation scheme.

Lots of details and issues remain very unclear, both in terms of the policy itself and how it will actually be implemented. It also was unfortunate that even though the webinar was presented by the American Chamber of Commerce, the presenters gave almost no info on how the longstanding U.S.-Thai double taxation agreement likely will limit/curtail the new policy for Americans.... Such as the expected result that U.S. Social Security payments made to American citizens AND U.S. government pension payments are likely to be excluded from Thai taxation under the terms of that particular agreement, and can only be taxed by the U.S.

That's a good question... I suppose the answer would be....in theory... in order to spend money IN Thailand, you have to bring those funds into the country (via the act of spending here). I'm not saying I agree with that view or that it makes sense... But that's the theory being given.

There's another interesting wrinkle to that whole area which would be credit card cash advances taken here using a foreign credit card. Normally that is a very expensive transaction because of cash advance and foreign currency conversion fees that most foreign banks charge.... But a few banks do allow those fee free. A wrinkle because loan proceeds apparently are not likely to be considered importing income. And when someone does a credit card cash advance, they're basically borrowing money from the card issuer that later has to be repaid.... Thus presumably, not likely to be considered importing foreign income into Thailand. At least, in theory. And then the other interesting wrinkle is a provision in Thai tax regs that allow spouses to gift to their own LEGAL spouse up to 20 MILLION baht per year without that being subject to taxation, which if it stands would seem to be another way of moving foreign funds here without being subject to taxation (though those would have to be non-community property funds).

For folks who want to be sure to be alerted of any future sessions, the American chamber does have an email notifications list for NON-members... And they indicated people can email them and ask to be added to their NON-members notification list.

The expat tax advisors who did the presentation also indicated they expected that foreign card ATM withdrawals and even foreign card (debit or credit) purchases made in Thailand likely will end up being considered importing foreign income -- though they acknowledged the Rev. Dept. hasn't specifically opined on that issue as yet. The above comment is from a Thai tax attorney and chamber member who was answering participants' posted questions online during the presentation. Though even if that ultimately were to become the Revenue Department's ultimate position, many of us remain skeptical about their ability to actually track and trace what clearly would be a huge number of such transactions, and separate out those belonging to expats vs. tourists -- especially since the current bank info sharing agreements internationally seem more aimed at tracking and sharing info on EARNINGS as opposed to SPENDING.

As mentioned above, the American Chamber of Commerce did host a webinar on Friday regarding the foreign income taxation scheme, and there were several clarifications / updates provided, including that there now will be a "grandfathering" clause to exclude foreign sourced income earned prior to Jan. 1, 2024. I posted an audio file of the entire hourlong session, as well as copies of several of the info graphics that were presented, in a different thread on the topic here, as linked below:

I asked about that IRA issue on a slightly different kind of income, inheritance income, which is flatly exempt from Thai taxation. One of the panel members this morning confirmed that the inheritance amount itself would be tax exempt, but that the subsequent EARNINGS from the original sum would still be subject to Thai tax, assuming the recipient was a Thai tax resident, etc etc.

However, there are certain types of U.S. sourced income for American citizens -- such as Social Security payments and government pensions from the U.S. -- that can only be taxed by the U.S. and are exempt from Thai taxation, under the terms of the U.S.-Thai double taxation agreement.

That's now been updated recently, according to the American chamber, with a Thai RD provision adding a grandfathering clause:

From this morning's American Chamber of Commerce webinar session on all this, one of the elements that got some discussion is the ability under Thai tax law for a foreign spouse to gift their Thai wife (legally married with a certificate) up to 20 million baht without having that count as foreign source taxable income. See the last item in the list below:

I believe that's correct, as per another of the presentation slides from this morning's American Chamber of Commerce webinar:

One of the Revenue Department clarifications passed along this morning during the Chamber online panel was they've now added a grandfathering provision, whereby only non-exempt foreign income earned AND remitted into Thailand from Jan. 1, 2024 onward will be subject to taxation. And not funds/income earned prior to that date. A slide from the morning's presentation: Separately, apart from the above provision, I'm not aware of any tax treaty or other provision that would exempt IRA fund remittances into Thailand -- except the grandfathering provision cited above.

An online panel of expat tax advisors hosted by the American Chamber of Commerce here this morning basically opined that foreign card ATM withdrawals and purchases made here with foreign bank cards are likely to be considered foreign remittances into Thailand subject to local taxation. Although they added that the Thai Revenue Dept. hasn't yet specifically opined on that topic. However, potentially making that a declaration of their new taxation scheme and actually implementing it against many tens of thousands of expats living and spending in Thailand are probably two very different things.

CRS seems more focused on tracking and reporting/sharing taxable income generated like interest, dividends, etc... I haven't seen anything indicating that CRS is aimed at or intended to track spending.

I went back and re-read the US-Thai tax treaty document this afternoon. It does appear to indicate that U.S. government pensions and Social Security paid to U.S. nationals should only be taxed by the U.S. And the same notion likewise appears extended to pensions from subdivisions of the federal government, like states and such. But I'm not a tax attorney.... And it would be nice to hear one of them come out and confirm that.

One of my favorite TV dramas of the mid-1960s, the World War II series 12 O'Clock High, started out with its first season in 1964 in B&W, and then the second and subsequent several seasons were filmed in color.

Understand the issue you're raising... I'm just repeating what they opined during the session. Wherein they also said the onus will be on expats to self declare and file a Thai tax return if they have a tax liability here. There was also some discussion about an international financial info sharing network called the Common Reporting Standard (CRS), which they likened to an international version of FATCA. And basically said, the Thai Rev. Department could obtain bank account info on people here from their banks in their home countries. But saying they could, of course, is a different matter from the notion that the Thai Rev Department would actually go out and try to start tracking down foreign bank account and transaction details on many tens of thousands of expat foreigners residing in Thailand, and not just on their bank accounts, but then also delving a layer deeper in linking those bank accounts to specific bank card numbers and transactions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Reporting_Standard Nothing here that seems to reach down to the level of bank card numbers: Information exchanged "The information and its exchange format are governed by a detailed standard, whose details are listed in a 44-page long document.[15] Each participating country will annually automatically exchange with the other country the below information in the case of Jurisdiction A with respect to each Jurisdiction B reportable account, and in the case of Jurisdiction B with respect to each Jurisdiction A reportable account:[16] Name, address, Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN) and date and place of birth of each Reportable Person. Account number Name and identifying number of the reporting financial institution; Account balance or value as of the end of the relevant calendar year (or other appropriate reporting period) or at its closure, if the account was closed. Distributions made to the account (dividends, interest, gross proceeds/redemptions, other)"

By the way, since some folks here have mentioned it in other related threads, the panelists also opined that foreigners in the future, from Jan. 1 2024 onward, carrying cash with them coming into Thailand also would be considered a form of bringing foreign income into the country. Just the same as the more traditional routes they also mentioned, such as wire transfers and online currency platforms like Wise.

No mention, and no question asked during the session, of anything about disability compensation.

I too was surprised, Sheryl. Considering this was an event hosted by the AMERICAN chamber of commerce, they totally whiffed on addressing the details of U.S.-specific topics like Social Security and the impact on all these various income issues of the terms of the Thai-US double taxation agreement.