TallGuyJohninBKK

Well, I found your Gruenluft, or Grunluft, air purifier company in China, operating under a different name. Have a lot of info there about the unit you bought, along with quite a few other purifier models.

http://www.gruenluft.com/product-show.asp?MID=385&ID=415

Their website and brand goes by the name you have, but the actual company name in China who makes the product is Xiamen Voke Health Technology Co.

Don't see anything on AliExpress under Gruenluft or Grunluft or Xiamen Voke, which seems odd, considering they're a China based company.

18 minutes ago, hobz said:

I can give you the exact measurements if you are interested. As I have them at home.

Thanks Hobz... Yes, what are the length and width dimensions of those?

12 minutes ago, hobz said:

The grunluft HEPA filter is even cheaper. Can order from lazada (pay on delivery).

Only problem is it's rectangular it's not square.

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/gruenluft-hepa-filter-vk-s60063-i135384013-s153033803.html?spm=a2o4m.searchlist.list.4.55b244b0iP7lFU&search=1

 

U should get it probably 3-4 days after ordering.

 

They also have activated carbon and charcoal filters. Same size as the hepa.. makes a nice stack.. just need to find two square fans that stack together to fit the filters.

 

I can give you the exact measurements if you are interested. As I have them at home.

 Thanks. Actually, I don't think a rectangular shaped front end would be a big problem. So you'd end up having two edges stick out a bit more than the other two edges. I think that's still manageable, as long as there isn't too much excess.

The Hatari fan above probably would do great -- in terms of fit -- with a 10 inch by 10 inch front filter portion. Anything rectangular that's reasonably close to that should be OK, I think?

8 minutes ago, chama said:

Wonder if there were any statements regarding graft or extortion? 

I guess that's kind of a learn on the job training kind of thing. No need for the higher-ups from BKK to address what the troops on the ground already know all too well. 

On 2/21/2018 at 8:04 AM, THAIJAMES said:

For those that can't afford to buy a hepa air filter, here is a way to build your own for the cost of the filter only:

https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/make-diy-air-purifier/

(a lot of good air quality articles on the above site)

 

On the subject of making a do-it-yourself HEPA air purifier, I noticed lately that both HomePro and Foodland Markets in BKK at present are selling a 448b Hatari cyclone-type fan (8 in size I believe) that has an absolutely FLAT front surface and probably would work well for a do-it-yourself project.

I bought one of them today at Foodland just to play around with, and if all else fails, just use as a regular fan in the house. HomePro stocks them on an ongoing basis, but I think their presence in Foodland is a temporary, promotional thing.

Here's the page for the fan from HomePro's website:

https://www.homepro.co.th/product/1046779

I went today in person and eyeballed this model, the Hatari HT-PS20M1, at first HomePro and later Foodland, and it looks to me like it would be suitable for a do-it-yourself purifier like the approach James linked to above at smartairfilters.com.

For a do-it-yourself HEPA purifier, you need a couple of things:

1. the fan, and this model might well do.

2. the carbon prefilter material, which is pretty easy to get off Lazada or elsewhere.

3. the tougher part, a suitable HEPA filter, which is kind of a hard thing to find here as a standalone purchase. Right now, I'm thinking to buy the Hatari HEPA filter for 888b, since everything else I've seen is more or ridiculously more expensive here.

4. And then lastly, the straps and possibly duct tape necessary to secure the HEPA filter and carbon prefilter together, and then the straps to secure both to the front of the fan.

I noticed the other day that Hatari also is selling a 100 baht spare prefilter for their purifier from their website, so I was thinking to kind of use that as a hard frame, attach the carbon prefilter to that, and then both of those to the Hatari HEPA filter, and then attach all to the front of the Hatari fan.

https://www.hatari.co.th/en/products/air-purifier/685

The smallest dimension on the Hatari HEPA filter is listed as being about 25.4 cm or 10 inches. So that should adequately cover the front face of the Hatari cyclone fan above. Indeed, I just measured the front surface of the fan, and it's 9 inches side to side, so the filter should cover it and fit fine.

So....

888 baht for the HEPA filter

100 baht for the pre filter holder

a bit extra for the carbon prefilter sheet (which I already have at home)

448 baht for the Hatari cyclone fan

a bit extra for the straps and/or duct tape, most of which I also already have at home,

and the end result is around 1500 baht, or a bit more depending on where/how much you pay for the carbon prefilter sheets.

I'm gonna give it a try. The main question I have right now is, the body of the fan doesn't have a very deep sealed area along the exterior of the fan housing only about 2 inches deep in front of and behind the actual fan blades, with the remaining portion behind the fan blades being an open grill material. So I don't know how much air deflection is likely to occur once you slap the filters on the front of the fan.

And of course, whether it actually works as intended!!!

22 minutes ago, utalkin2me said:

Just for some perspective, how bad is the air for you on a bad day here in bkk (for the entire day) vs say smoking a single cigarette as far as your health goes? I’ve gotta think the cig is going to be way way worse. 

 

I also wonder how effective conciously breathing through through your nose can be. If you’re like me you’ve got a ton of helping filters in the nostrils that is normally not so welcome, but under these circumstances... :)

Well, for starters, I've never smoked, probably because my parents both did and I always hated the ashtray breath smell, not to mention the health hazards of smoking.

But generally, I'd also guess that smoking itself is more harmful that just breathing BKK air, since the outside air in BKK isn't usually as bad as it is right now every day all thru the year, whereas people who smoke usually do so day after day, every day.

Even so, if you read the medical literature on PM2.5, which are the very tiniest pollution particles that are a particular air pollution problem in this region including BKK, it's very bad because those invisible to the naked eye particles get past all your body's defenses (including those in your nose), get absorbed thru the lung tissue and get into your blood, where prolonged exposure can cause all kinds of health problems.

For anyone who wants to take care of their health, obviously, they can choose not to smoke and not be around smokers. But in the same way, when the air outside is bad, everyone here -- especially the farangs who have the ability to learn and understand perhaps better than some locals -- likewise have the ability to avoid that bad air if they want to, whether inside at home or outside on the street. Just need to decide it's something you want to do, and then assemble the tools/devices you need to make it happen. It's a choice, just like not smoking is a choice.

Did something today I've never ever done before in my life -- wore a Honeywell respirator mask when I went outside in Bangkok, and I guess I'm glad I did considering the red / Unhealthy air quality reading for BKK today.

Overall impression -- not a very pleasant experience, but tolerable when the smog is bad. The Honeywell 9010 masks I bought supposedly do an excellent job of filtering out PM2.5, better than the N 95% standard that the mask has. But this particular model is made of a soft pliant material. So every time I breathed out, the mask material expanded like blowing into a balloon. And every time I breathed in, the material was sucked up against my cheeks.

The one good thing about that is, that tells you you've got a good seal between the mask and your face. The first time I tried the mask on at home before we went outside, I had it too high on my face, and as soon as I breathed out, all the exhaled air shot right up out the top of the mask and into my eyes. So, pulled the mask down lower on my face, tightened the metal clip section over my nose, and got a good seal.

I don't know if it's just me being a big guy with big body and big lungs. But when I breathed in outside like when hiking up the BTS stairs or doing some other exertion, it felt like I wasn't getting enough air thru the mask and I really had to take deep and strong breaths to get what felt like enough air into my lungs.

And of course, there was the time when I got a tickle in my nose that kept bugging me and bugging me, but hard to do anything about it with the mask on. So finally, it got worse and my nose started running a bit, and then that turned into a coming sneeze. So quickly stopped and stepped aside on the sidewalk, turned aside to quickly pull the mask off my face, and then promptly sneezed all over my wife, which she really appreciated!

So, I guess I'll try the mask again next time when I'm outside and the air's bad, and see if it gets any better with repeated use.

BTW, the price below is for a box of 50 masks... Not 1,000 baht per mask!

One thing I noticed when I was outside, perhaps feeling a bit self-conscious. I probably saw a half dozen or more people outside wearing masks when we were out and around. But I don't think any that I saw were the respirator N95 type masks, and all instead were the simple hospital-type, drug store paper masks that do nothing for PM2.5.

I think I want to try one of the 3M "Cool Flow" kind that have a little vent for exhaling that supposedly makes wearing them more comfortable. The 9010 model above does not have any vent for exhaling.

Bad day today, and not looking much better for tomorrow:

3 hours ago, hobz said:

 

Ok, makes sense about not cutting HEPA and super smart to buy a smaller one and sealing the sides with some foam perhaps.

Whatever you use, you want it to enable an air tight seal, or as close as possible to it, between the edge of the filter and the frame of the unit.

3 hours ago, hobz said:

Cycles for filters, they recommend:

 

- cleaning the pre-filter every month. (it doesn't need to be replaced.)

- replace charcoal filter every 3 months

- replace activated carbon filter every 6 months

- replace HEPA filter every 6 months

 

And I also noticed that the filter replacement lights are actually just timers based on this.. when you replace the filters you need to reset the timers... so nothing advanced there :D

I think everyone should take the filter replacement schedules as just a guideline, particularly regarding the HEPA filters.

On the one hand, you don't want to run the filters past their good life cycle. But with PM2.5, if your HEPA filter is clogged up, your sensor is going to show you're not getting the levels down. And so that would be one clear indication.

On the other hand, just an example, I was reading the instructions for one purifier the other day that said the recommended life cycle for its filters was based on usage that assumed running it 24 hours a day and in a house where someone was smoking 5 cigarettes per day. Well, at least in my house, no one smokes, and at most we only run either the living room or bedroom filter say 12 hours a day. So we're not getting nearly the demand on our units that perhaps manufacturers assume we might.

Carbon pre-filters, though, I think are a little bit different, in that the deodorizing properties of the carbon tend to break down with time. So I've read that even if you're not using a purifier too much, it's still good to put in new carbon pre-filters every 3 months or so.

3 hours ago, hobz said:

 

ps. I noticed 3 potential problems so far with the machine.

 

1. When unplugging the machine and pluggin it back in again it doesn't automatically start. This means that if there is a short outage that is super common in Thailand it will turn off the machine. And then you need to push the button or the remote to turn it back on.

 

2. It starts with the ionizer turned on by default. Not sure if this is a problem..? 

 

3. The remote is completely dead. Someone on lazada says to replace the battery. I will go to 7/11 later and buy a new battery and report back. This is with air con running at full speed in the same room.

I've read about the auto-on feature in the event of a power cut in other models too, and was a bit mystified why that's a feature that a manufacturer would be bragging about.

I only see two scenarios in that case:  1. I'm home, and I turn the purifier back on when the power comes back on, or 2. I'm not home, and I'm not running the purifier anyway when I'm out of the house. So I can't quite figure out, what's the big appeal of that feature.

About the ionizer, the one issue you have to be careful about is the potential for the machine to create ozone when operating in that mode. Ozone is a gas that will irritate and cause other problems for one's respiratory system in high enough levels. I think the recommended limit is 0.05 ppm of ozone. The ionizing feature on my Sharp unit claims it produces 0.01 ppm of ozone when the ionizer is running. But in my case, the ionizer only comes on when I switch it on. And I've yet to switch it on. (Meaning, it's off by default on my Sharp machine).

3 hours ago, hobz said:

Everyone in the house is coughing... now... the machine can't clean it out fast enough.... it's been showing pm 2.5 over 300 for a while now...

Your last photo, there's no LCD display at all on the machine where it should show micrograms of PM2.5..

Did your girlfriend's mom blow the machine off the scale???

Yep, that's what I thought of too when I saw them on Lazada... What happens to you in Thailand if you buy from that Thai company, and then poof, they disappear one day, as is not uncommon with small Thai retailers. Would be interested to know if filters for that particular machine can be had elsewhere for import to Thailand.

BTW, it's normal for the HEPA filters to come sealed in plastic, as it protects them from getting dirty/dusty before they reach you. You always need to remove the plastic seal/wrapper before inserting them for use in the air purifier.

As for cutting another brand air filter, I'm not sure that really is going to work with a HEPA filter. Because, it's critical to keep a solid seal around the exterior of the filter where it adjoins the frame of the air purifier unit. And once you start cutting into a different HEPA filter to resize it, I think the cut edge is going to tend to lose its air seal capability. Then the air simply starts bypassing the filter and going straight out the unit's blower...at least...to some extent.

If I had to go that route for some reason, I'd probably look for a slightly smaller HEPA filter that I could keep physically intact, and then look to use something else to seal the extra space between the filter and the frame of the air purifier.

PS - What's the recommended replacement cycle for the Gruenluft HEPA filters?  For the charcoal pre-filters in general, they usually have a 3 month recommendation.

2 minutes ago, hobz said:

Ok, cool!

 

It's been running for a couple of hours now and the indicator says PM2.5 is at 5 now! 

 

5 micrograms is SWEET!!!   Keep it there!

I've never heard or seen of the Gruenluft brand of air purifiers before. But I did notice one thing -- I went thru the entire Lazada catalog last night of air purifier accessories, and Gruenluft thru the retailer on Lazada you bought from was pretty much the only one that also sold the corresponding replacement HEPA and charcoal filters on Lazada.

Other air purifier brands that are sold on Lazada including the big name ones like Sharp and Toshiba and others -- virtually no replacement filters for those units available via Lazada. So kudos to the Siriwan company on Lazada for both selling the air purifier AND the replacement filters to go with it.

58 minutes ago, hobz said:

I got this one delivered today.

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/-i116781007-s121289054.html?spm=a2o4m.order_details.list_image.1.1a6b61081tAQ3Y&urlFlag=true&mp=1

 

To my suprise it contains a PM2.5 detector!

Also to my suprise the air quality in my house was already good!

Below 50 PM2.5 .. Bedroom had only around 20! 

 

So ofcourse now I'm happy and disappointed at the same time.. Maybe I didn't need this air purifier after all... oh well... can't hurt!

 

Sorry to burst your bubble, but neither 50 nor 20 micrograms of PM2.5 is considered "good".  See the color coded chart I posted above with the PM2.5 levels in micrograms added into the AQI chart.

20 micrograms is midway into the moderate/yellow air quality level. 50 micrograms or close to it is at the high end of the orange unhealthy for sensitive persons category. 56 and above gets you into the Unhealthy for All / red category.

Ideally, you'd want your indoor air to be in the green/good category at 12 micrograms or less -- which is equal to 50 or less on the AQI scale.

I should add, apart from getting out an old, heavy-duty Honeywell "tank" air purifier from storage and buying a new, quiet Sharp purifier for the bedroom, I've begun a routine of several other things:

--Keeping the windows all closed at home, since at present, the air outside is invariably worse than the air purified air I have inside. The air outside in BKK at present is anything but "fresh."

--Covered my regular permanent air con filters with disposable Filtrete sheets and change them periodically. (The first time, the sheets were grey dirty within a week. But since then, they're lasting a lot longer and not needing as replacement so often.)

--Begun dust mopping the floors in my home, using a dust mop and the dust attractant sprays that you can buy in the stores, on a once a week basis. Even with the air purifiers running and the Filtrete sheets on my AC filters, I still get a fair amount of floor dust on the mop every week. And that means less dust in the air.

--And lastly because of a personal thing with me, I have a bad allergy for dust mites, I got rid of my old box springs type bed frame and replaced it with a solid metal bed frame that has no fabric and no padding, thus no home for dust mites.

Getting rid of the bed box springs and padded headboard did wonders for my allergy symptoms. And since I started using the Filtrete filters on the AC units and dust mopping regularly, the amount of visible dust settling on furniture/tables and such in my bedroom is substantially reduced.

The one thing I also want to test -- but haven't had a chance to do it yet -- is whether using the Filtrete sheets on your regular permanent air con filters has any effect on PM2.5.  Supposedly, the Filtrete sheets can capture particles fairly small. But in reading up on that product, it's hard to find clear, specific info on just how small, and how efficient they are at filtration (90%, 95% 99%???).  So now that I have a PM2.5 sensor at home, testing the Filtrete sheets without running air purifiers is one of the things on my agenda.

So where does one find this Snowy Weasel beer???

6 hours ago, mommysboy said:

Any chance of a comparable reading inside with air filter and then without (perhaps after an hour or 2 with window open)?  What I mean is that just securing windows and doors alone might act as a filter.

Since I got the PM2.5 sensor the other day, I've been running all kinds of comparisons with my air purifiers running and with them turned off. Thus far, generally speaking, the unpurified air indoors in my home, with all the doors and windows closed, tends to be a bit less polluted than the ambient air outside.  At least in terms of just PM2.5.

But on a bad day outside like today was, the difference indoors without running any purifiers really doesn't provide much relief. It's still bad inside, just not quite as bad as outside.

For those with air purifiers and sensors...  I was getting tired, and muddled, with constantly having to try and remember how different PM2.5 microgram readings on my sensor translated into Good / Moderate / Unhealthy for Sensitive / Unhealthy for All, etc. readings on the AQI scale.

So last night, I doctored one of the AQI charts to include the corresponding PM2.5 microgram readings, hopefully making it a little easier to interpret the sensors' microgram readings.

Two AQI points away from Red/"Unhealthy for All" at the Chula Silom station, and already into the Red elsewhere in BKK. The sky outside looks like c**p.

32 minutes ago, llp said:

 

got a new pm2.5 sensor that also uses the higher quality planttower laser sensor

 

You wanna post a link for where you purchased that model from?

Also from the photo, are you positioning that sensor right at the air outlets of your air purifier? That's what it looks like.

1 hour ago, ArnonK said:

There also several other test apps which could be used to check Flash Memory Card etc. like FakeFlashTest ,  SD Speed Test for Mac, F3 (FightFlashFraud) and others. 

Do any of those work without overwriting/destroying any existing data on the card?

Still trying to get a feel for how the Sharp unit in the bedroom performs in a room that's pretty well matched to its rated size/output.

After leaving the purifier off thru the night and until about 10:30 am this morning, I found a bedroom reading of 15 mcg.

Turned the Sharp unit on, and let it run in the bedroom for an hour on medium, which brought the sensor reading down to 10 mcg, and it seemed to pretty much be staying there even beyond an hour.

So at that point, I turned up the Sharp unit to have its fan on maximum, and let it run for another hour plus in the closed bedroom, which brought the sensor levels down to 5 - 6 mcg, where they appear to be staying now at two hours runtime in that mode. Nothing below very brief drops to 4 mcg.

Last night around midnight, the Sharp unit got my bedroom down to 1 - 2 mcg while running on medium fan. But the outside air was better than, about 120 AQI or less. Midday today, the outside air is around AQI 134 or about 49 mcg. And the bedrooms seems to be staying at 5 - 6 mcg with the Sharp unit on high.

For me, the indoor target goal is to stay below 12 or so mcg, which is the top limit of the "Good" air quality category that has a maximum AQI level of 50.

Guess I still need to find out what my Sharp purifier is going to be able to do in the bedroom when the outside air gets into the red/unhealthy category of AQI 151+ or 55 mcg and above  -- though the outdoor numbers got close to that terrain earlier today when they peaked around 9 am at 142 AQI / 52 mcg before dropping some later into the day.

So I'm expecting based on what I've seen thus far, that the Sharp unit on high fan should be able to keep my bedroom below the 12 mcg level (meaning maintain "good" air quality -- even if/when the outdoor air levels get well into the red / unhealthy terrain.

I'd really like someone of the police to explain what they mean when they keep arresting people for "illegal entry"

I'm presuming, that's not the same as overstay. But who knows?  Does it mean all these folks snuck into the country without valid entry stamps from Immigration, or had fake stamps, or fake passports???

It almost makes you think that Thailand's borders are like a sieve, leaving tons of folks both inbound and outbound. Say it's not so!!!

1 minute ago, dddave said:

3rd party merchant, as far as I know.

Thanks Dave... Do you wanna put a link to the testing software you used to check the cards?

Just to clarify, on your latest purchase that turned out to be fake, was the purchase direct from the online retailer, or, from a third party merchant who sells thru the online retailer's site?