nomoretalksin

Coup hope not!

going international now, like bush-fire. Bloomberg:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=asia

1. http://www.manager.co.th/Home/ViewNews.asp...D=9510000063464

Quote

May 31, 2008

BANGKOK - Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej ordered police and soldiers to break up an anti-government protest that has lasted nearly one week.

"You must leave, otherwise police will help you move. I will take all responsibility for the police and military's actions," Samak said in a nationally televised speech.

During a rally late Friday, the protesters vowed to bring down Samak's government which was formed after elections in December.

The protest is organised by the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD.

"I will not yield to your demand. Today will be the day. I am tackling the problem today," Samak said.

"I have prepared police and military forces. You must find another place to rally that will not affect or violate other people's rights," he said.

"You must withdraw from that place. It's illegal, and our country needs a peaceful atmosphere," he said, accusing the protest leaders of "inciting unrest."

The protest began in opposition to Samak's drive to amend the 2007 constitution.

His government also came under fire over a speech made by PM's Office Minister Jakrapob Penkair who announced his resignation on Friday.

Samak insisted the protesters were breaking the law by obstructing traffic for a week in the middle of Bangkok's historic district, according to AFP.

UNQUOTE

2. http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=127918

Quote

May 31, 2008

Supreme commander: No plan to use force against protesters yet

Supreme Commander Boonsang Niampradit insisted he has not ordered troops to prepare to use force to disperse supporters of People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) who have gathered at Makawan Rangsit bridge to oppose People Power party's move to amend the constitution. Gen Boonsang's statement came shortly after Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej said police and soldiers will crack down on protesters if they fail to move out of the bridge Saturday. Gen Boonsang said he has not discussed anything with Mr Samak, and that he has been monitoring news about the rally closely. He also said he soldiers have the duty to follow orders, and that they will have to follow the premier's order if he gives one.

UNQUOTE

3.

http://www.nasdaq.com

May 31, 2008

Quote

Thai PM:Government Ready To Use Force To Break Up Bangkok Protests

BANGKOK -(Dow Jones)- Thai Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej said Saturday that the government is ready to take action against street protesters in Bangkok."We have the police and military forces prepared. They (protesters) can gather elsewhere but not on the street that creates problems for the public," Samak said in a special program broadcast on state-owned television channels. The government's plan to rewrite the country's constitution has sparked sometimes violent demonstrations in the capital during the past week. -By the Bangkok Bureau of Dow Jones Newswires (END) Dow Jones Newswires

05-31-080026ET

Copyright © 2008 Dow Jones & Company, Inc.

UNQUOTE

Latest update:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/05/31...cs_30074456.php

Only "The Nations' translation of Samaks speach (read full click above):

Quote

"I'll take action to remove them from the area. They have been accumulating criminals there. You, all, will have to take responsibility for what you have done. I will not tolerate it and police and soldiers will not tolerate it either," Samak said on TV. "Those who join the rally must pull out and I don't know who the five PAD leaders are," Samak said. "I must speak today instead of speaking during my programme tomorrow because I'll go for a break with them today."

"But where were these people when the constitution was abolished?" Samak asked emotionally.

"Now, they seized roads and marched to surround Government House and embarrassed the country in the eyes of the International Community. They play it hard and try to find fault with me to pressure me to leave office. When they could not find issues to attack me, they cited the old issues during the time of the Thaksin government."

"But the prime minister who is called Samak is also the defence minister. I work with the military commanders and I have good understanding with them," Samak said.

UNQUOTE

does he want to go and talk with them??? He doesn't know who those 5 PAD Leaders are?? Something is wrong here with the translation and/or with him! Makes no sense to me this talk.

Read full text in post 878, just updated, after your comment (H90)

Not clear if 'legal actions' and/or 'force' is meant.

Quote

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/05/31...cs_30074456.php

BEING UPDATED

Samak vows to use force to end rally

By The Nation

Tension heightened at the rally ground of the People's Alliance for Democracy at the Makkhawan Bridge after Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej announced on TV Saturday that the government may use force to end the demonstration.

Samak made the announcement on NBT Channel in a special live broadcast at 9 am.

Police apparently briefed up its forces at the bridge while the PAD leaders announced to the demonstrators to get prepared for being crackdoned.

Samak said the demonstrations at bridge had caused severe damages to the country.

He blamed the PAD for trying to undermine the attempts of his elected government to solve the country's problems.

He said his elected government came to office by contesting the election under the democratic rules and it assumed the office during the time of the economic crisis.

He said he had done a lot as the prime minister and visited several countries but the government critics still accused his government of not doing anything.

Samak said the measures to solve the country's problems were going well until the PAD came out to protest against the plan to amend the Constitution.

"But where were these people when the constitution was abolished?" Samak asked emotionally.

"Now, they seized roads and marched to surround Government House and embarrassed the country in the eyes of the International Community. They play it hard and try to find fault with me to pressure me to leave office. When they could not find issues to attack me, they cited the old issues during the time of the Thaksin government."

He said the protesters were illegally blocking the roads and he thought the protesters were trying to incite the military to stage another coup.

"But the prime minister who is called Samak is also the defence minister. I work with the military commanders and I have good understanding with them," Samak said.

Unquote

I just hope The Nation has got it wrong with "force" as the Bangkok Post writes "legal action" (the nation should watch out what they right)

Any other translations on his weekly cooking (sorry) political show??

I don't see any coup coming until it's 100% clear that Thaksin will not have to go the courts (that would be the trigger I guess) and he would despite promising to do so, not go; and/or there would not big violence/casualties on the ground (which there will be not if Pro-Thaksin hooligians and the police/military play by democratical rules).

So as long the new 2nd (MP Roi Et) motion is not approved successfull yet (need how many MP's to approve it? 123?), I think the PAD should step back now and today, enjoy their little (righteous) victory, and let the Thaksin-proxy goverment step into to the next faux-pas. If they remain there now, the participants, will get smaller and smaller, and they might loose their face. Why continue now? Enjoy the resignation of Soap opera hero & media manipulator Jakrapop, and their achieved goal of the withdrawel of the 1st constit. amendment motion.

What you guys think? Make sense?

By the way how many people really were there yesterday?

- Nation says 8'000, TOC reporter (on site) said 25'000

Any other figs found? This are important indicators for the PAD Leaders, and they should include those trends, in their plannings

(also read the polls etc.).

---------

Quote

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30074454

PAD vow to continue rally

The People's Alliance for Democracy Friday vowed to continue their rally to ultimately oust the government, after redefning its role to further its protest.

After annoucing the change in the PAD's stance, PAD leader Sonthi Limthongkul asked for an approval from the PAD supporters for the continuing rally. The crowd roared in support and approval for their extended fight. In his speech defining the change, Sonthi read out what he said were 12 points the country still had to face as a result of the government's acts.

"The country's problems still persist, with Thaksin and his cronies being behind everything. So our tasks are not yet complete.

"Hereby I ask for your approval to heighten our efforts with a goal to finally oust the government," he said.

The Nation

Unquote

according TOC: 25'000people now at the PAD rally.

Meanwhile PPP already launched a 2nd motion, after the first one failed date.

Younghusband, I think it's a bit naiv and short-sight to call the PAD current trouble-makers.

Why don't the people accused of fraud go the courts, and clear their names if the

are so innocent (instead of purge the courts via a second motion)?

I just wonder who are the real trouble makers here?

Hope for a peaceful PAD rally date

nice eve

Completly agree with you. Sure off-topic directly, but if you look more close u maybe understand the controversy another men has set-up. I'm just trying to show how Thaksin is trying to link those 2 things very well: sport and politics (gain more votes with Thai footy fans). Plus UK newspaper printing it (plus read my 2 first lines)

----

to go back to City sport only topic just found some

Very Latest Man City Transfer Rumours

http://www.manchestercity.vitalfootball.co...le.asp?a=111147

Quote

With the transfer window well and truly open, football agents will be doing their utmost to get the best deal they can for their respective clients. How many of the following rumours actually have any credence?

Players in

Ronaldinho - Barcelona

Jo - CSKA Moscow

Giovani dos Santos - Barcelona

Stephane Mbia - Rennes

Peter Crouch - Liverpool

Dimitar Berbatov - Tottenham

Andrey Arshavin - Zenit St. Petersburg

Paul Robinson - Tottenham

Aiden McGeady - Celtic

Giorgio Chiellini - Juventus

Eduardo Gaspar - Valencia

Players out

Richard Dunne - Sunderland, Newcastle, West Ham and Tottenham

Stephen Ireland - Sunderland.

Micah Richards - Manchester United and Juventus

Michael Johnson - Arsenal

Joe Hart - Aston Villa and Tottenham

Unquote

sorry for my off-topic step (for us but not for thaksin) above. Above players are just rumours yet.

did the Thaksin campaign ever sponsored any such "anti-vote-buying campaigns"

(this was by the coup goverment)

never

The words of his unsporty actions are spreading wider and wider in the UK. Did Thaksin believe the UK press would never found out, that he misuses Manchester City for mainly his own political agenda back in Thailand?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/may/30/thailand

Quote

Thailand tense as top general speaks of coup

• Ian MacKinnon in Bangkok
  
• The Guardian,
  
• Friday May 30 2008
  

The protesters are also fighting plans by the coalition government led by the People Power party, a direct descendant of Thaksin's Thai Rak Thai party, to amend the constitution. Critics say the government wants to prevent Thaksin being prosecuted on corruption charges and consolidate its hold on power.

Unqoute

read the whole story here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/may/30/thailand

meanwhile his trying to sign Scolari, Ronaldinho etc.

I wonder if these men are reading online news, about their future boss?

I'm quite sure, he will go for the "reconciliation trick", for his love and the sake of the country motherland bla bla bla

and he will continue to proove his innocence.....etc. etc.

Why not join Soap-Opera, working as an actor? That's where he's best strength "acting" would come out best

Thaksin meet Prem and Surayud (on a funeral yesterday). I just wonder what those guys talk to each other??

PPP was not elected...That changes the story

and WHO says that, pray ? any evidences?

even Chamlong & Sondhi with their PAD or Abshisit with his whole opposition never came up with such tremendous discovery !

perhaps you happen to have some other, more "secret" sources ?

In our village up-country (and confirmed in neighbour villages with friends and relatives as well) the TRT=PPP were the only party (no dems not any others) knocking on the door with 200thb/per begging for a vote. The village chief with his view other corrupt boys, was standing on the street and watching (like dogs) 50 meter behind "this scene" and raising their eye-brows (you watch out you family if you don't vote for the right party). I could even note you the name of that certain PPP member, if I wanted to. But our family still has to life there. (of course we didn't vote for the PPP, but the majority of the village did, as to many of the same boys were checking around during the pools). Welcome to Thaksin-land.

The TRT already established their network in 2001/2002. Watch here a documentary about "vote buying" by TRT...

and their network:

Watch:

(the film was about 2002 and at that time, all parties were more or less giving give-aways during election time, but believe me TRT took over with big money everywhere & last election was mainly only one party cheating, not respecting the new law, which has been implemented by the goverment after the coup. And now with the new constitution planned, they want to erase their own cheatings. Any other news/views with actually proove on this matter?

Do you guys understand, who difficult it is for the democrats (any prove of vote-buying here?) to get the majority up-country, and with this air-time control from the government to main only PPP=TRT voices on local TV, which is the main source of information for the majority voters? Very, very difficult!

One typical case of "advertising by Thaksin up-country", was also about 2-3 years ago were another TV poster here

noted: In our village Thaksin send us small fire-trucks paid by goverment money, and with a big celebration in the village those trucks were received by the head of the village. What was sprayed on the trucks: "Sponsered by THASKIN"! (but actually the tax-payers of Thailand sponsered them). This is and was Thaksin tactic. Misuse tax-money to make advertising for him up-country to vote for him. Same with the show-crowds gathering were flags and flowers were distributed before his arrival (by his men) to make the TV viewers seeing a delightet colourful Thaksin welcome.

on and on..it goes..... How can you not support the democrats, I just wonder? We want to move on but not with the biggest, best established corruption group. No way.

cheers

I hope that Chalerm only told that to scare people so they don't go there. there is a lot security i don't think someone can bomb easily.

Well with Chalerm you never know, do you. I mean, who would want to bomb the PAD rally?

And why?

Because of all the payed goons, hired drunks, and heavily sponsored caravans of the 'poor', we are actually made to believe there's a pro-Thaksin or anti-PAD side. How clever of the government.

Can you explain your logic/meaning? paid by whom, supporting who? These are pro-Thaksin or anti-Pad side hooligians! Who else creates violence in this country? (besides unrest in the South). I don't think Thaksin would hire such people. He hires big masses from the country-side who come to cheer him. Thes are hardcore crazy Thaksin fans, which don't need money to make a mess.

I would say above from "hammered" is the quote of day! Exactly! They have a good mandate and the very best reason to demonstrate. What will happen with Thailand if we all should just swallow elections (with fraud elections) and then keep our mouth shut, if the ruling party, misuses their position and duty? Especially with a dear leader, who happens to lie over and over again, that his not involved in politics, but actually and in reality is and remains the true PM and head of state (with political power) in this country?? In Europe you would have the half of country on the streets, if any government there would try to do the same. Plus this Banana Republic waste of money, with a yes a no election (with not further full explanation what the yes would be - What's the benefit for the voters of this selfish act?).

"fairly policed"

hoping the same!

nomoretalksin:

You must know that sunrise and thaigene don't intend to find some arguments, when you check all there postings you'll find out that they are most probably paid for posting here. They never answer any question, they never come with facts, they always come with exactly the same bs. If they would be foreigner, they would learn some facts, read about them somewhere. If they would be Thai people they would know some facts. But most probably they are Thaksins english "opinion-maker" department. Simillar to the lobbiests Thaksin hired in USA just they seem to be more a cheap local service.

Nope - no one is paying me anything. Now you guys on the other hand..You do indeed make me wonder..

As for "nomoretalksin" and your comment: "nothing against farmers, they are unbelievable mostly great people up there!" that's exactly the typical condascending rubbish spouted by your people, and I'd go further to suggest that it is your people who don't understand Thailand. You think the country is yours. You see them as something lesser than you. This is the root of the problem - and it is exactly why some guy like Thakisn can manipulate that for his own ends. Your people need to accept that all Thais have an equal say and an equal share in the country - something that so far the elites and middle urban classes, senior sivil servant dynasty familes simply aren't prepared to do. Blame yourselves for this mess and let the rest of us know when you are ready for real democracy and sharing the country with the other 90% ok?

2nd try also wrong (before I was a rich Thai Elite and you attacked me very rude) and now I didn't step any foot upcountry. Suprise, suprise, I life half the year upcountry, with and among the rural voters, with my extended Thai family. I guess it would shatter your "upcountry equal dream" if I would tell you what those people in our village and neighbour villages think of Thaksin (and some of their paid head of village bosses who try pressure the vote outcomes throughout the whole village), and they know very well that they were misused mostly by him and his cronies.

Did you ever read the real economy figures about rural economic growth, Income/per head upcountry etc? Growing depths, no education, only free hospitals with very lousy service (which I agree is better for some than expenise hospitals with good service as some basically can't afford it)? Only a view specific villages and towns got the "real" support from Thaskin (what I read and see). What he gave most, was dreams and hopes, this I must admit he did and still does very clever (but not honest). But real long-term help only for a view (OTOP might be a good idea from him) choosen ones.

He still keep's on telling us that he's helping the poor, by inviting Arab business men to bring cash in to buy rice productions under (again) thai proxy nominees, with the Thai workers, then having absolutely no more say at all? But in reality his now trying to invest his "unusual wealth" (as the AEC just pointed out again this week) neighour countries, like cambodia and Indonesia and of course hot topic in the UK; where maybe the people are not checking him so much as it might be here in Thailand (after what Thailand experienced with him).

I really don't know what is your goal Thaigene? Total anarchy where no political party can progress? You have to place your cards on one-side, oreelse our wonderful country will never progress (think also about nature and the fragile environment, which the TRT clan nearly 100% forgot) and the fighting in the right sustainable and environment friendly way, or else we will be sold out to all foreigners, and Thai people really then only have your so behatred elite (in the city) getting the big cash.

If corruption is to much in place, you will always have street demonstrations, this is the result of the previous corruption by to greedy politicians and not

the result of crazy mobs.

Think green, think sustainable economic growth with clever understanding & honest politicians & men (Korn, Abhisit, Surin, Surayud etc.) then Thailand can progress in the right, honest way (I hope). If you believe in no-one, than we can't progres, as you also don't seam to bring any solution at all. I prefer to put my cards on one side, than just life here, and support no-one. Of course it's your and also each ones choice, is this point you are right of course (in case you missunderstand some posters here).

---

sorry again my English is not your standard (be free to complain again)

nice day mate

Remind's me of the recent referendum in Burma (not coincendane he was there already twice recently?) and he pops up with this very similar idea, to let his group remain in power (and white-wash all previous allegations)?:

THAI TALK

Referendum: A Bt2 bn stupid 'yes-or-no' question

By Suthichai Yoon

The Nation

Published on May 29, 2008

On the surface, Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej only wants to spend Bt2 billion to hold a "referendum" to find out whether the Thai people would say "yes" or "no" to the proposed constitutional amendments.

In fact, all he wants is a big "yes". But the bigger question is what's the "big yes" all about? You know and I know what he is really after. He won't publicly admit it. If he thinks we are all fools who would fall into the trap, then he isn't such a bright guy after all.

continue here: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/05/29...on_30074244.php

he he your right, it will never happen, I would be very surpised if so.

Thaksin was the champion, of inviting his men to the TV studio, and they had to read down his (or his men prepared) script of questions.

I remember after the first big allegations of the tax-free Shin Corp sale, he only went once live to the studio, without preparation or prechecked questions (after months of pressure for information from him about the matter and street demonstrations), he then was sitting there being so shocked about the direct (unusual for him) questions, that he blinked constantly, so nervous with his eyes the same way as your (Tony C.) avatar, and coughing his way through the interview.

After that evening the press were shocked the next day, to get so strange replies on various questions (which no-one was able to ask before). I think it was called Modern-Nine Talk-show and the TV challengar later was removed or kicked out from that government channel, as I can remember. Anyone can remember or has a link from that interview? You would recongise Tony's Avatar there very clearly! he he

I must say the police, military and Samak etc. are holding currently regarding the demonstrations (up to today, minus the group that was not stopped throwing things at the PAD during a longer period, which injured about 18people) a quite fair stand. If all refrain from violance and people can demonstrate as in a proper democratical country (and by the law), all should be ok. Just wonder what the people in government will learn about this issues raised by the PAD?

Why not hold public (TV? useful?) forums:

Abhisit or Korn or anyone - with Penkair

Chalerm - with Sondhi

etc. etc.

That what be beneficial for all people to hear those people talk in a serious political debate, as I see often in Europe (instead using the media to talk or should I say blame each other, without talking directly to each other).

Please answer me this one question.

If many people in Thailand agree that Thaksin is corrupt, but they think that so are the Democrats - as they represent the rich elties that have feathered their nests for generations on dirty little deals (or so 'they' may believe) and have no interest in the plight of anyone else...

Thus the majority want Thaksin becuase they think (rightly or wrongly) that he has actually done things for them - so they'll vote TRT/PPP/Anyone-else-who-seems -like Thaksin -- then would you finally agree that they have a right to govern without interference by the military?

A pretty straight forward question - does the majority, including "them" farmers and poor people "up there' in Issaan even if you are 'outraged' by their choice, have a right to have their choice govern without mobs in the streets threatening another coup?

If not why not?

I'm not sure to whom this question (which is based and put together with presumptions, which might be only your idea) is addressed, but didn't other posters already explained to you partially several times:

- that the military is not one single political unit (bevor or after the coup, doesn't matter)

- and that last elections were not regular and fair proceeded (difficult to crack Thaksin network up-country for various, mostly not so politically correct reasons + election fraud cases during elections)

- also your democrats (point of view) = equal another group, is also not one single political unit as you might think

and therefore your questions can't be replied to with a simple yes or no?

It seams to me, that you (maybe me to, I must confess) throw to much weight on names (particular group names) and titles, and especially forget to see the time-line of the events (not the last in the media spotlight needs to be "a" or "the" coup initiater etc.) and the various networks within the networks, for each re-action and cause, might be more complex then we might even or ever see.

Therfore many things I must assume also play in the background, which are difficult for most people (us) to understand and get to hear. So try to be a bit more open (I try to), than the rather finger-pointing with "western standard political point-of-view" about various points, such as democracy, coups and in your case your ultimate problem, with some rich elite people here in this country (you already attacked me after reading 2 posts, that I must be a rich Thai kid, with no care and/or connection for upcountry), which you also believe are equal (as I understand you think) the Democrats (party of Thailand).

So what was your exact question, without keeping in mind and understanding that the military (as I understand) is not one single complex group (who all are scared of a view hundred or thousands PAD demonstrators, and therefore take over and start a coup) all the time

If I missunderstand you and/or you think I'm wrong somewhere, please let us know.

I don't want to scare you off, or space-shuttle your dreams, but apparently for example Bangkok will

be (possibly) anyway under water in 15-20years. According to Khun Smith, who predicted the Tsunamie

in Phuket etc, but nobody listened to his warnings.

Question to all future investors (near seas and rivers etc.)

Sure you (we) wanna invest your money in Bangkok in such property investments??

Read the other TV-thread regarding: "Instable Climate Change & Rising Sea Levels" here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=2002144

any comments on the sinking feeling topic, please post there...thanks

regarding LA above

WE WANT CHANGE! WE WANT CHANGE!

YES WE CAN! YES WE CAN!

;-)

The King is speaking to the channel 11 now! (before TPBS)

Wonder what he has to say!? Any updates please advise, as I'm sure it's a about the current mess, with some golden advises as usual. His really a men of the people, not like Thaksin pretends to be! just my humble opinion

Abhisit is a true politician, since he was young and studied politics in England.

Personally I would say Korn and Surin come across far better than Abhisit.

I am not so sure Abhisit has what it takes, it takes more than studying in England.

Listening to his speeches there seems to be a lot lacking.

Korn (his economy & general know-how is amazing) and Surin are great, but they are not meant to be PM's? I don't know.

Imagine those three together with Surayud. That would be a dream team.

However as you say Abhisit lacks to make very great speaches. He has that "soap opera" thing missing, which makes Thaksin such a star on the country-side. It's a pitty mostly big mouth (contents not so important) are mostly choosen recently, especially up-country (again: nothing against farmers, they are unbelievable mostly great people up there!)