nomoretalksin

For those who don't know yet, you can get more or less "English live commentary coverage now on TOC"

http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/

Can't get the live broadcast to play. Anyone else?

- try another browser it may work then. If still not ok, try to surf with a proxy server.

Maybe your browser doesn't have the plug-in loaded (don't ask me which one, but months ago, it also didn't work here).

Anyone not able to see it, rapport your browser, location and OS, then other users, might can help.

- Must be amazing hot out there with the crowds and for some after 2 hours marching! Also for the police in full gear.

I think the police are with the people; against big scale corruption.

- Samak should call his proxy role an end, he would gain more points, going back to be a cooking TV chef.

As PM, he just looses face, big time. But we have one little, big problem here, Samak is apparantly still very deep

involved in the "fire truck scandal - still ongoing investigations"; and he said himself at the beginning

of his parlament PM time 4 months ago, that he want's all TRT=PPP=Thaksin-boys to help each other out on all ongoing corruption cases

(hence the constitution amendmend try, to let also Thaksin jump-ship once again any corruption court hearings etc.).

Guess a big reason why Thaksin choose him, for his proxy. You help me get out the court, I help you too.

Eye on Eye, but now Samak seams to be big time stuck outthere, that's why he doesn't want to take responsibility date so far.

Neither does the Interior Minister; Chalerm. Noone want's to be currently the black sheep, as deep down there, they know the

people are right in their cause.

Let's pray he (they) will not let his frustrations out on the demonstraters today, especially tonight, when it get's dark!

Also the pro-Thaksin, aggressive groups (1000+) out there, are to be watched closely and carefully.

- True we have over 100'000people on the streets now? Anyone got some figs?

Let's hope it remains peaceful!

History of most issues why this demonstration is ongoing since approx. 2005,

can be found here:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&cli...amp;btnG=Search

For those who don't know yet, you can get more or less "English live commentary coverage now on TOC"

http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/

This station belongs to one of the PAD Leaders: K. Sondhi.

Coverage is quite neutral, and also discusses the pro's and contras.

ASTV meanhwile, the Thai Station normaly covering live, is currently blocked (guess by goverment).

-----

that Chavilit today suggest Samak to resign today, is quite interesting. It shows that the pro-Thaksin groups are widely split currently themselves.

Really no clear line by this proxy goverment (lead by K. Thaksin, N. Chidchop etc. ) currently.

We want change! No more proxy government anymore, honest for the country working politicians!

RECOMMENDED Polictal TV-SHOW (rerun) starts 02'00 - 03'00am on TOC

"HEADLINERS" is the show's name on

http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/ = 02'00-03'00am

(I dont' work there, and I have no benefit in promoting this show, which start in about 2 hours from now, I personally just get the best TV information there, on the only "English only TV show" in Thailand, besides reading of course all other blogs, newspapers etc.

So this evening I watched TOC nearly 1 hour interview with "The Democrats: Khun Korn (Finance Shadow Minister)" talking about the PAD rally tomorrow, and

the current ongoing goverment problems etc. Wow, I really must say these people, including Khun Abhisit are really the should be leaders!

It's so refreshing to hear his thoughts about the ongoing problems. So way far more intelligent and down to earth than any PPP=TRT person I've ever heard speaking!

The show is up again in 2 hours on, starts at/on:

http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/

Rerun 02'00am (BKK-time)

Don't miss it, if you are still awake at 02'00am!

my comment:

For me, he or Khun Abhisit, are the most suitable ones, who have honest, long-terms solutions for this country. Most others, are thieves, with Thaksin on the top with

my title for him, as the "worst and most dishonest role-model Thailand ever had"!

Please let me know know your comment, about Khun Korn's opinions, also regarding the PAD rally 2-morrow.

I really would love to see this person as PM for Thailand. What a refreshing and intelligent change, this would be for Thailand.

Let's cross or fingers, that the upcountry people will get to hear their voices as well (difficult as PPP=TRT=Thaksin group is blocking their air-times

on govermental channel since they took over about 6-7 years ago) one day! And therefore we have this unfortunate recycle of Pro-Thaksin Group being relected over and over again. However I think if any next election takes place, and the EC would do their honest job, the Dems would grab it! I hope, we need them!

Actually, how is this different from the British Prime Minister eating beef during the mad cow crisis, or the Mexican president eating strawberries when some ahd been contaminated? This is what politicians do. I would say public displays like this are pretty much in the job description.

Thai garlic (which I happen to prefer) is under intense pressure from Chinese imports. Thai garlic has a stronger taste and is perhaps more suited for Thai dishes, but Chinese garlic is larger, easier to prepare, and most of all, half the cost. Local production has dropped as farmers cannot compete. And the farmers are upset at not being able to make a living.

So Samsak did a press op. What's the big deal with that?

Google up and read above, then you get the big pic. It's his own party (his own boss), who brought the problem all along in the first place!

just to remind Samak once again, a litle bit about history, and why we have this cheap garlic overflow etc. here in Thailand, in the first place.

FTA's were put apparantly as many critics note, for Thaksin's and his cronies own business (such as is current lawyer and current proxy foreign minister Noppadon = medicine company) interest.

And even worse, in a typical Thaksin manner, in a speedy way, without checking the facts for his own voters/country-men/women:

1)

http://www.bilaterals.org/article-print.php3?id_article=3553

Quote

posted 13-01-2006 <h1 class="titre-texte">Sondhi alleges Thaksin signs FTA with Australia, China to benefit his IP Star</h1>

Sondhi Limthongkul, founder of the Manger Group, alleged that Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra signed free trade agreement contracts with Australia and China with ulterior motive to benefit telecom businesses of his family. The Nation, Thailand

Sondhi alleges Thaksin signs FTA with Australia, China to benefit his IP Star

13 January 2006

Sondhi Limthongkul, founder of the Manger Group, alleged that Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra signed free trade agreement contracts with Australia and China with ulterior motive to benefit telecom businesses of his family.

Sondhi said the FTA contracts with Australia and China had severely affected villagers and farmers but the IP Star satellite project of Shin Corp, owned by Thaksin's family, stood to benefit greatly.

Sondhi said the FTA contracts with Australia affected daily farmers and villagers who made and sold locally-brew liquors as Australia could export milk and spirits to Thailand with no tariff.

At the same time, the FTA contract with China caused garlic and onion farmers to suffer with influx of cheaper garlic and onion from China but the telecom businesses of Thaksin's family could expand to China.

Unquote

------------------------

or here:

2)

http://www.ftawatch.org/autopage1/show_pag...id=3&d_id=3

Quote

Thailand's Free Trade Agreements and Human Rights Obligations

Prepared by FTA Watch Thailand, March 2005,

for Submission to the 84th Session of the UN Human Rights Committee

Introduction

Since 2002, the government of Thailand, under the leadership of Pol Lt-Col Thaksin Shinawatra, has made considerable efforts to initiate and expedite bilateral and regional trade agreements (FTAs). The Prime Minister announced clearly that his government would "employ free trade area negotiations as Thailand's economic tactics in the areas of international trade and investment" (keynote address, 18 February, 2004). At present, agreements have been signed with China, India, Bahrain, and Australia. Negotiations are currently in progress with the United States of America (US), Japan, Peru, New Zealand, BIMSTEC (members consisting of Bangladesh, India, Myanmar, Sri Lanka, Phutan, Nepal and Thailand) and the European Free Trade Association (EFTA includes Switzerland, Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein).

FTA negotiations with developed countries in particular have an agenda that goes beyond trade in goods. They almost without fail include deregulation of investment measures, liberalization of trade in services, and implementation of competition policies. Also, trade-related intellectual property rules in FTAs risk undermining Thailand's ability to take measures to ensure access to affordable medicines. Moreover, the elimination of tariffs on agricultural goods in FTAs may have an affect on the livelihoods of small farmers, thereby affecting food security of rural communities.

This would undermine Thailand's ability to comply with its obligations under the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, especially the right to life (article 6, as interpreted by HRC General Comment No. 6 (1982)) and the rights of the child (article 24, as interpreted by HRC General Comment No 17 (1989). These obligations include the need to "take all possible measures to reduce infant mortality and to increase life expectancy, especially by adopting measures to eliminate malnutrition and epidemics."[1]

Moreover, FTA negotiations have been conducted secretively, without sufficient consultation and participation of public-interest civil society groups. Even though the government claimed to consult with people through several organised meetings, only limited groups of people have opportunities to participate. There was a lack of access to the draft negotiating texts in all sectors, which created difficulties for people to assess the potential impacts from the negotiations.

Small Farmers' Right to Livelihood

The elimination of tariffs on agricultural goods imported from countries that are parties to the FTAs, which is the main feature of all bilateral FTAs, can have a devastating effect on the livelihoods of small domestic producers. This may undermine Thailand's ability to "take every possible economic and social measure" to "eradicate malnutrition" under the right to life (article 6, as interpreted by General Comment No.6 (1982) and to "eradicate malnutrition among children" (article 24, as interpreted by General Comment No. 17 (1989).

A case in point is the agreement with China to eliminate completely tariffs on 116 types of fruit and vegetables. This came into effect on October 1, 2003. Within a year, imports from China surged by 180% resulting in a plunge in prices of most temperate fruits and vegetables in the domestic market by 30-50%. It is estimated that 100,000 farming families or 500,000 people have been negatively impacted by this surge in cheap imports, thereby affecting their access to food and nutritional input. Some, like garlic and onion growers, have suffered especially severe effects with their livelihoods threatened. Despite warnings by academics, the government had chosen not to take any safeguard measures.

Another 100,000 dairy farmers are being threatened in the same way by the FTA with Australia. Though the government has argued that tariff reductions and quota increases for dairy imports from Australia will be gradual and spread over a period of 20 years, farmers know that their livelihoods have been written off. It took many protests by the farmers before the government promised some assistance for them to adjust to the change. Corn and soybean farmers, however, have already been affected by market liberalization under the WTO and consequent dumping by the US agri-businesses in the last ten years with average prices decreasing by over 10%; it is anybody's guess how much further they will be affected by the FTA under negotiation with the US.

Proposed recommendations:

Thailand should undertake an assessment of the impact of trade rules on its obligation to protect the right to life and its ability to take measures to eradicate malnutrition before undertaking any new commitments under FTAs.

Thailand should also take into account its international human rights obligations under the Covenant when negotiating and implementing agricultural trade rules.

II. Access to information and participation in the conduct of FTA negotiations

The High Commissioner has, on several occasions, encouraged States to undertake human rights impact assessments (HRIAs) of trade-related rules and policies systematically (E/CN.4/2004/40, paragraph 55). HRIAs would require not only participatory methodologies - to ensure assessment quality as well as to implement the right to participate - but also comparing the real and potential impact of trade policies against a range of comprehensive indicators based on internationally recognized civil, cultural, economic, political and social rights. Significantly, the principle of non-discrimination as a core human rights principle promotes the disaggregation of impacts between men and women, different national, ethnic and racial groups and so on, promoting participation of a broader range of views and experiences within any assessment.

However, Thailand has conducted FTA negotiations in a secretive manner, without sufficient consultation and participation of public-interest civil society groups. The conduct of the Thai government in relation to FTA negotiations is inconsistent with its human rights obligations. These include the obligation to respect access to information (article 19, as interpreted by General Comment No. 19 (1983)); to ensure every citizen's right to participate in the conduct of public affairs (article 25, as interpreted by General Comment No. 25 (1996); to encourage public participation in policy decision making and monitoring the state's exercise of power (article 76 in the Thai Constitution); and to obtain wider and broader transparency in the negotiating process (Sec. 2102 ( (5) in the US's Bipartisan Trade Authority Bill 2002).

This has been reaffirmed by the Senate Standing Committees on Foreign Affairs; Economic, Commercial and Industrial Affairs; Agriculture and Cooperatives; and Finance, Banking and Financial Institutions. These Committees conducted studies of relevant documents and interviews with responsible government negotiators in the Ministries of Foreign Affairs and Commerce and held consultations with business organizations, NGOs and academics, including members of FTA Watch. As a result, the Committees issued a statement dated October 10, 2003, raising the following concerns over the nature of the negotiations.

1. The negotiation processes had been conducted in a rushed manner. Framework agreements had been concluded with 6 countries within 2 years and several more were expected to be completed without any clear information on their long-term impact.

2. There was no evidence of systematic, comprehensive studies on the impact of the FTAs, especially from the social, environmental, and cultural perspectives. A great number of questions and concerns were raised by the private sector on the economic studies that were available and the lack of clear answers from officials.

3. There was a lack of participation by all stake-holders in determining the country's position in negotiations; consultation was limited to private businesses. Negotiating positions had been determined on the basis of an assessment of levels of competitiveness in the private sector alone without regard to the overall social, cultural and environmental impacts.

4. Many commitments made in the signed framework agreements would necessitate prior approval by Parliament according to Article 224 of the constitution, which governed the signing of international treaties that affect the country's sovereignty. In particular, these commitments implied changes to or restrictions on domestic legislation.

5. There was insufficient preparation to mitigate the impact of the FTAs. The only response stated was for those affected to change occupation or for farmers to change crops. This could lead to a major problem of food security if farmers were forced to abandon food crops due to cheaper imports as a result of the FTAs.

Consequently, the statement called for the government to undertake several measures to address the above mentioned concerns. The most significant recommendations concern

- a submission for parliamentarian scrutiny and approval of any commitments made in any FTA negotiation which would result in any infringement on state sovereignty or require the passing of laws,

- and the establishment of a consultation process, which would include all sectors of society, prior to the signing of any agreement.

Moreover, a House of Representatives Sub-Committee on FTAs recommended in November 2004 that the government consult all stakeholders by means of public hearings organized under the existing guidelines of the Office of the Prime Minister.

In addition, the National Human Rights Commission, an agency established under the Constitution and independent of the government, has repeatedly voiced concerns over the lack of transparency and participation in the process of FTA negotiations, and on the negative impact of FTAs on the poor.

Until now the government has responded to none of these proposals, recommendations and concerns. Nor has there been any significant change in the government's method of conducting negotiations. The Department of International Trade Negotiation, Ministry of Commerce, put more effort into publicizing progress reports on the negotiations and set up "suggestion boxes" on their website and at a call centre.

More significantly, the government went ahead with signing the Free Trade Agreement with Australia and New Zealand without the involvement of Parliament and without disclosing the content of the agreement to the public until after the pact, and there is also no translation of the agreement into Thai language.

There are good grounds for questioning the transparency of the ongoing negotiations over the Thai-US FTA. An official negotiator from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs publicly admitted that the US had requested that the Thai chief negotiator sign a confidential agreement before the start of negotiations. (No details or context of the negotiations is accessible to the public so the content of the proposed agreement is not known.) At that time the chief negotiator reportedly did not sign but gave a 'gentleman's agreement' to what the US had requested.

Proposed recommendations:

Thailand should ensure access to information to government studies and government negotiating positions under FTAs.

Thailand should ensure greater consultation and participation of public-interest civil society groups in FTA negotiations.

Conclusion and Recommendations

The bilateral Free Trade Agreements that the Thai government has already signed or is in the process of negotiating with several countries invariably have a significant impact on millions of Thais. In some cases, FTAs infringe on the human rights of Thai citizens, such as the right to the enjoyment of the highest attainable standard of health and the right to livelihood.

Moreover, the Thai government has repeatedly failed to take heed of the concerns voiced by various sectors and institutions, or to provide all the stake-holders with the opportunity to participate meaningfully. It has refused to disclose the details of negotiations and neglected to undertake due parliamentary process recommended by the Senate before signing FTAs. Such processes are violations of the rights to freedom of information and to participate in public affairs.

FTA Watch calls on Parliament and the Thai people to demand that the Thaksin Shinawatra government take into accounts its obligations under the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and international human rights law when negotiating and implementing FTAs.

Moreover, FTA Watch requests that the Thai government:

1. Remove intellectual property rights from Free Trade Agreement or other trade negotiations or agreements.

2. Undertake detailed impact assessments of the effects of all proposed trade liberalization measures on each sector of the economy, including the overall impact on the economy, human rights obligations, society, culture, the environment and sovereignty. These impact assessments must be conducted by inter-disciplinary groups of independent, impartial and non-partisan researchers.

3. Grant access to results of studies and government negotiating positions must be made public and public hearings must be conducted, involving stake-holders in all regions of the country.

4. Grant access to negotiation frameworks and maximum negotiating positions that reflect research results and public responses must be submitted to Parliament for approval at least 90 days prior to the start of negotiations.

5. Ensure that the Thai Senate and the House of Parliament each appoint an official committee to monitor closely the negotiation processes.

6. Institute a mechanism to ensure that the people, not only from the business sector, have access to information and the opportunity to express their opinions at all stages of the negotiations.

7. Ensure that the results of negotiations must be submitted to both the Senate and the House for approval at least 90 days prior to the signing of any agreement.

8. Ensure that all documents related to the negotiation, including the resulting agreements, must be available in Thai.

In review with the Thai government, FTA Watch proposes the Human Rights Committee the following questions:

1. Does the Thai government have a concern on its people's access to medicines at all? If yes, why has it not immediately implement the WTO's Decision of 30 August 2003 on "IMPLEMENTATION OF PARAGRAPH 6 OF THE DOHA DECLARATION ON THE TRIPS AGREEMENT AND PUBLIC HEALTH", considering that there is a severe shortage of anti-troviral Effavirenz?

2. Does the Thai government consider a demand for TRIPs-Plus, which is likely to result in a longer period of monopoly, whether from data exclusivity or patent extension, as a problem of human rights?

3. How can the Thai government assure that in all trade negotiations rights to access to medicines will not be violated?

-------------------------------------

Related Information

• Thailand's Free Trade Agreements and Human Rights Obligations (PDF File)
  
• Request for an Urgent Appeal to Mr.Paul Hunt
  
• FTA Watch and allies sent an appeal to the Special Rapporteur
  

unquote

thanks mate, you made my day. What would be a forum without any funny visuals! Well done Tony !

Especially the sinking boat! ole! Nice work!

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30075534

Supreme Court president prohibits officials from speaking about Bt2 million bribe

The Supreme Court president has orders court officials and judges to stop speaking about the attempt to bribe court officials with Bt2 million.

A source from the court said the Supreme Court president ordered all officials to stop speaking about the bribery attempt until the investigation into it has been done.

The Nation

-----

we might never find out, who bribed for which case, but we all can guess

Lunchbox lawyers identified

Information from several witnesses and footage from a closed circuit television camera at the Supreme Court's Crime Division for Holders of Political Positions indicated two lawyers could face charges, a Supreme Court source said on Friday. One of them is a lawyer known to be well-connected to Deputy People Power Party Leader Yongyuth Tiyapairat.

The Supreme Court's panel of judges appointed Friday morning to investigate the attempted bribery questioned one of the court's senior administrative officers who received the snack bag from one of the lawyers on June 10. The judges asked for details of his conversation with the lawyer.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.net/topstories/tops...s.php?id=128209

Thaksin's best party (PPP=TRT) buddy (yongyuth) lawyer found with 2million thb in a bribe snack bag, on the same day, as thaksin's lawyers were there for the coming Rachadapisek case against Thaksin! Coincedence?

Here some news back in May, shrugging off "bad luck?"

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30070695

also read here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=183317

Quote

Thaksin, Yongyuth undergo ceremony to terminate bad luck

Chiang Mai - Former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and Parliament President Yongyuth Tiyapairat Saturday underwent a ceremony to cast away their bad luck. The ceremony was carried out at the Sri Jomthong Stupa Temple in Jomthong district at 2 pm in the northern tradition.

Thaksin, and Yongyuth sat under a make-shift arch made of tree branches and banana leaves. Deputy Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat and his wife, Yaowapha Wongsawat, also sat under the arch. During the ceremony, Yongyuth was heard saying "this is for casting away bad luck" and Thaksin added "that we did not initiate".

The Nation

Unquote

bad luck????

How can these two guys mix up bad-luck, with constant bribing other people? And some people even some farangs here, still having faith in those characters?

it's amazing how Thaksin can contradict himself within a same interview. I noticed he does that for years and years. Is that guy so stupid or he thinks we are?

Same as Samak, talk first, then think. What a poor condition Thailand is in now, with such a leader-duet.

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Quote

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=new...id=ailPps3Teah8

Thaksin Tells Thailand to Cut Rates, Boost Spending (Update1)

By Nipa Piboontanasawat and Haslinda Amin

March 12 (Bloomberg) -- Thaksin Shinawatra, Thailand's former premier, insists that he's done with politics; he isn't done advising politicians on what to do.

Thaksin, who returned from exile last month after having been ousted from office and banned from politics in a 2006 military coup, said Thailand's newly elected government must repair economic damage to the country caused by the leaders who unseated him.

In an interview yesterday with Bloomberg News, Thaksin called for lower interest rates, a weaker currency and more business investment. ``We have to bring back confidence to Thailand after the coup,'' he said. ``It's quite difficult, but the government has to try harder.''

Thaksin's advice to the ruling People Power Party, which was founded by his loyalists and won the first post-coup election in December, suggests he wants to continue exercising political clout, said Suriyasai Katasila of the Campaign for Popular Democracy, an activist group that opposed Thaksin when in office.

``He is running the government behind the stage now, and will come back for sure once he proves his innocence in front of the justice system,'' Suriyasai said. ``His words on the economy have much influence because the team running Thailand's economic policy at the moment is basically his.''

Thaksin, who remains a popular figure for his policy of grants to poor villages, presided over Thailand's fastest economic growth in a decade. In the interview, he said the Southeast Asian nation's interest rates need to be lower to boost confidence among consumers and investors.

`Not Easy'

Finance Minister Surapong Suebwonglee last week said economic growth may be 6 percent this year, the best pace since 2004, when he unveiled tax cuts aimed at spurring spending. Southeast Asia's second-largest economy expanded 4.8 percent in 2007, slowing from 5.1 percent a year earlier.

``It's not easy for any government to step in now right after the coup,'' Thaksin said. ``It's been almost two years that the country has not moved forward.''

Consumer and business confidence in Thailand languished under the junta-backed government amid economic policy bungles and political squabbles.

Thaksin said the Thai currency is ``too strong compared to other currencies in the region.'' The baht is at the highest level in more than a decade after adding 6.9 percent this year, the most among Asia's 10 most-traded currencies outside Japan.

``Because of the strong baht, Thailand should take this opportunity to upgrade the production quality of exporters by bringing in new machines, equipment and technology,'' he said.

Banned From Politics

Thaksin, whose Thai Rak Thai party won a record 377 of 500 parliamentary seats in 2005, was ousted in September 2006 after months of demonstrations in Bangkok by protesters who accused him of corruption. He was also criticized over the 2006 tax-free sale of the mobile-phone company he founded to Singapore's sovereign wealth fund Temasek Holdings Pte.

In May last year, a nine-judge tribunal appointed by the junta that ousted Thaksin said his party broke laws in a 2006 election. The judges dissolved the party and imposed five-year political bans on 111 executives of Thai Rak Thai, or Thais Love Thais, including Thaksin.

The army justified its coup by saying Thaksin was corrupt. The former premier and his wife Pojamarn, who returned to Thailand in January, face charges over their involvement in purchasing land from the central bank. A separate lawsuit filed this week by a junta-installed committee alleges Thaksin bypassed laws in setting up a lottery.

The Asset Examination Committee froze more than 60 billion baht ($1.9 billion) of assets belonging to Thaksin and his family.

``I can prove my innocence easily, I have done nothing wrong,'' Thaksin said, describing the charges he faces as politically motivated. He pleaded not guilty today during the first hearing in Thailand's Supreme Court.

Thaksin returned to Thailand on Feb. 28 and said he will devote himself to charitable activities ( where?) and managing the Manchester City soccer team, which he bought last year.

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not advising politicians and 1 minute later.... yes Thaksin we always believed you... such a shame for this country. When will this man stop?

Different point of views within the new city crew (can you smell the further changes end of next season, by a further discontent owner?):

1. Thaksin last week:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/sport/articl...ream/article.do

Quote

"I am 59 next birthday, so I am not a man who can wait for many years to see my dreams come true.

But I want this club to advance faster, much faster. Sven is a good football general, but we need more. We must play with more consistency, much more urgency."

Unquote

2. New Executive Chairman last week:

http://www.mcfc.co.uk/default.sps?pageid=115&pagegid=%7BDBD12D53%2D8346%2D431D%2DA04F%2D5D0F8664DE80%7D&newsid=6611023&siteid=&pageno=2&newscategory=&frommonth=4&fromyear=2008&tomonth=6&toyear=2008

Quote

"Mark knows what success looks like, as do we as a football club. Setting targets on positions in the table is not healthy for the organisation. We're on a 10-year plan, success is going to come to this club, and nobody knows it better than this man.

Unquote

Hot off the press: After short 1 year only Thaksin is already loosing his first fans also among the press:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/ju...&feed=sport

Quote

Goodbye blue moon, you've left me standing alone

• 
  
• • Simon Hattenstone
    
  • The Guardian,
    
  • Wednesday June 11 2008
    
  • Article history
    
  • 
    

Five weeks is a long time in the life of a Manchester City fan. Since I've been away, the beloved leader Dr Thaksin Shinawatra has sacked Sven-Goran Eriksson despite the fact that he had delivered a top-10 finish as requested, despite the fact that Manchester City had done the double over Manchester United for the first time in 40 years, despite the fact that Manchester City won the FA Youth Cup for the first time in 22 years, despite Sven pledging his allegiance to the club by buying himself a fine pair of blue-tinted spectacles. Now I am no Sven evangelical - indeed, my regular reader might well recall that in the past I compared him to Death from Ingmar Bergman's The Seventh Seal and accused him of being a master of mind-numbingly dull football. But the fact is that our boy Sven, as I like to think of him now, done good at City.

Earlier this year, I tried to interview Svennis for the Guardian. Paul Tyrrell, the spokesman for Manchester City, told me that the Guardian would never get an interview with him because we had shown a lack of respect. Among examples he cited were articles written by David Conn and myself (both City fans). Well, Mr Tyrrell, I would like to ask both you and the beloved leader what is more disrespectful: a) questioning the long-term future of a club run by a man with a dubious human-rights record facing criminal charges back in Thailand or sacking your manager after he has achieved just what you asked of him in his first season - and a little bit more.

Since then, things have got worse. City have hired a diehard Red as manager, and in the revisionist manner of modern times we've been told that if you combine the talents of Sir Alex Ferguson, Albert Einstein and Nelson Mandela you might get something approaching the genius of Mark Hughes. City fans have also been told that Hughes, who has never won a trophy as a manager, could have gone to Chelsea, Barcelona or the White House should he have so desired, but his heart always lay with City. Finally, City fans have been ordered to forget that Big Phil Scolari, who we initially believed would replace Sven, ever existed.

As for Ronaldinho and his 200 grand a week? It makes me sick. This is football as political posturing, football as global marketing, football as showbiz masturbation. The one thing it isn't is football as sport. Thaksin can call Ronaldinho the world's greatest player till he's City blue in the face but we all know the truth. He's past his peak, looking for a ludicrous payday, and it just so happens that City are prepared to pay twice as much as any club in their right mind. This is not how you create a winning football club, it's how you create a circus of freaks.

A year ago I said that however hard I would find it to stick Thaksin, I'd find it even harder to give City up. You were married to your team for life - in sickness and health, for better for worse, for richer for poorer, the whole shebang.

But that was then. I can't stand any more. I'm ashamed of you, City.

Until recently, I was so proud of you - sure, I knew you weren't the coolest kid on the block, certainly not the most glamorous, but you were warm and funny and human, and decent people liked you. These days you are crude and crass and humourless, and decent people despise you.

I want out. I know that in filing for divorce, I'm not simply splitting up with a football club. There's family and friends. And that might well be the most painful thing. My daughters could reject me forever - they are always telling me that we are bigger than Thaksin, that he is an imposter and that to leave them now would be an act of betrayal. As for my friend BriceyG, will there be a future for us without City? Well, we can still go for curries at Abdul's and lamb chops on Green Lanes and discuss the old days. We'll always have Gillingham, BriceyG.

This is a momentous decision. Possibly a disastrous one. I don't know if I can kick the habit. Mind you, a few months ago I gave up smoking, and if I managed to give up the cigs I can give up City - even if it does mean going back on the ciggies.

So, farewell City. You've had my love for 36 years, but that's long enough. Other fans might not wish to go the whole hog, so how's about boycotting the first home game of the season or holding a vigil in matching Sven wig and specs outside the ground?

If there's a football club with a heart out there (nothing flash, sense of humour preferable) looking for a new fan, give me a call. As for City, I'll be back when Thaksin's done with his plaything to help with the rebuilding.

Unquote

Congrats Simon, for seeing behind this man's face and wallet! I feel sorry for most at the club and the players, but the big boys at City, didn't do their home-work. It took Thailand nearly 4 years (while approx. 6 years in power) for the most of Thai people to understand his real intentions, but despite not being the official PM for now, his proxies are still running his show, including ongoing media manipulation (state tv). guess not to long anymore... people power will be bigger...one day for sure.

"The truth to be told"..... coming soon on various channels..

Simon wish you good luck with your divorce!

Has anyone actually looked at the sea level in the Gulf of Thailand? I look at it every day and it has lots of room to rise before it hits the high water mark of days gone bye. I realize this is not the sort of "head plastered against a computer screen" research one gets from frenzied self-proclaimed "scientists". But really, a quick glance at the the ocean is worth a thousand words!

As I read everywhere it's not only the rising sea levels, it's also the unusual changing weather patterns plus "sinking landside" Bangkok. Same above what you said, was to be believed with slow rising sea levels at "New Orleans" and "Burma" Cyclones etc.. Apparantly (the weather experts and scientists say so) Thailand will get those cyclones too, and then a view cm in rise, can mean a whole sea-side city under water for months, after such an event. Don't forget also a dam and a big river near/in Bangkok too.

Show us statistics or similar, not just your rumours/thoughts.

The last measurments of sealevels show that seas are not rising. Why are many ignoring that FACT!

Inconvenient facts?

Inconvenient facts indeed...

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/c...ier-799303.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/c...and-429764.html

http://www.terradaily.com/2006/061221015453.078uvrt9.html

http://www.worldviewofglobalwarming.org/pa...ising-seas.html

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/05/03/asia/pacific.php

Thanks for the links, I allow myself to highlight the main figs/highlights of each article (click below to read the full articles by yourself)

1. http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/c...ier-799303.html

Quote

Most climate specialists believe that the current predictions of a maximum 59cm rise by 2100 made by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change are likely to be significantly underestimated.

Unquote

2. http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/c...and-429764.html

Quote

Rising seas, caused by global warming, have for the first time washed an inhabited island off the face of the Earth. The obliteration of Lohachara island, in India's part of the Sundarbans where the Ganges and the Brahmaputra rivers empty into the Bay of Bengal, marks the moment when one of the most apocalyptic predictions of environmentalists and climate scientists has started coming true.

Unquote

3. http://www.terradaily.com/2006/061221015453.078uvrt9.html

Quote

Climatologists so far agree that sea levels will increase 9-88 centimeters (4-35 inches) over 1990 levels by the end of the century (2100).

Unquote

4.

http://www.worldviewofglobalwarming.org/pages/actions.html

Quote

With much stronger language and more assurance than in previous reports, the IPCC members said there was less than 10 percent chance that this global warming was natural -- they pinned it directly on human greenhouse gas emissions. The amount of CO2 spewed out per year from fossil fuel burning is 12 percent greater now than in the 1990s, their report indicated, and the amount of the greenhouse effect is the greatest in 10,000 years.

If CO2 emissions can be reduced far enough, the report estimated, the atmosphere could be stabilized at a much lower level of greenhouse effect than is forecast now. Still, the effects of global warming will be with us for many centuries, the IPCC said, because of the inertia of the atmosphere and oceans and the 100 + year persistence of greenhouse gases.

10 MYTHS about Global Warming

Don't believe these commonly heard statements:

15 Very Important Things to Do about Global Warming...from the individual to the national

1. Learn about it -- start with this Web site and see the References.

2. Sell the SUV and choose cleaner, more efficient vehicles. Reduce your driving: one gallon of gas burned creates 20 pounds of CO2. Fuel up on ethanol and biodiesel.

3. Use efficient appliances, replace light bulbs with low-voltage compact fluorescents, check your home insulation. Buy renewable energy, like wind and solar, from your power company.

5. Companies -- the one you work for and the ones you buy from -- can save lots of money and reduce global warming by taking similar steps toward energy efficiency.

6. Shop smart: Look for products made from recycled materials, created with renewable energy, and which help you save money and reduce pollution.

7. Use your vote and influence as a citizen to elect responsive leaders; help them organize the neighborhood and town for energy efficiency.

8. Suburban sprawl makes for lots of global warming pollution; plan for walkable communities, lots of trees, open spaces, and public transportation in and between cities.

10. Build new homes and buildings for efficiency and solar power.

11. Support sustainable farming and forestry, including new crops to make into ethanol and other biofuels.

12. Let the corporations who make our cars, fuels, goods and power know you want their products to be as ecological as possible.

13. At all government levels, develop an efficient energy policy, moving away from fossil fuels.

14. Export new energy technology that uses renewable energy sources to the rest of the world.

15. ....and start doing these things today.

Unquote

will read and paste here the reminder later on sometime this week - Tks Robski-

BK Magazine - Bangkok (May 2008)

- Bangkok will be under water approx. 2025

- Bangkok is sinking each year 10cm

----

Why are the people still investing in this sinking city?

There was another source of "new power" - big business.

Unfortunately now they seem to bet on any other horse but Thaksin/PPP.

He can't control politics anymore and attracts troubles at every step, he is of no use.

The only visible proponent of that group is wAnchorman Nattakorn. That guy has decided to run for Bangkok governor. Let's see how he fares.

He might have a point - businessmen are smart and capapble and can give techoncrats a run for their money, and he can pick up where Thaksin had left with reorganising country's governance system, but his ability to lead is questionable and he can't stand people's opinions. He believes in democracy only as long as his intellectual and business supremacy is unchallenged - yet another recipe for disaster.

Utlimately businessmen should stay in business and leaders should lead, but Thailand obviously is facing a serious lack of leaders so everyone is offering his services to fill the void.

He's a lunatic, with always mixing political (Banharn style) point of views, very big mouth (but quite well educated too) and a very strong TRT (not only Thaksin) believer. I guess he's hoping for the release of the 5 year ban of his TRT heros, and would definitely join up with them, asap where possible. I think a dangerous move for Thailand if the Democrats would loose now Apirak as Major, and Nattakorn another Pro-TRT instead. Better vote for Khun Rosa, she's a corruption fighter. There should be anyway more women in Thai politics. Look at this country. Which species mostly cause trouble and corruption in Thailand? Also within most families? Thai Men! We need strong women (and men) with honest ambitions, and not only big mouth ideas. Dangerious guy for Thailand in politics I guess.

He already declared in March 08 or so, he would have a surprise for us, and would save Thailand. Again another big mouth upfront?

I feel for Man City fans so here's a chant I made up for the next game with a new coach.

You're nooooooow Thaksin's little poooooooodle

You shouuuuuuuld have looked him up on Gooooooogle

great one Tony! Would go well with Queen's "We will rock you!"

nomoretalksin - I never said that Thaksin and his buddies weren't abusing the patronage system for their own ends. I fuly agree with the above Economist report on that issue. Of course they were.

You ask me what's my point? Exactly the same point as above - that this is a war between the old family money/patronage elites, and the Thaksinites, who aren't 20 million carbon copies of Thaksin himself - but people who want to get rid of the old way of doing things. As the Economist points out, that doesn't refer to the monarchy - it just refers to the "patronage" way of doing things, a way in which most rich people in this country made their money - and don't want to abandon (maybe your family too?) and a system that pulls the country down - while wrongly suggeting (in my view) that rural poor people should shut up and be happy with their lot in life. Do you (or anyone else) have a problem with that idea?

Great we agree on something. But your points are a bit simple. Let me try to recap my thoughts again (sorry my English is I guess weaker then my thoughts are - so are my writting skills):

I read very carefully both already several times praised articles on the BCC and The Economist and other similar ones, by other foreign or even some Thai writers. Actually I don't fully agree with their and also your idea, of this easy idea of "old and new Elite story" - 2 groups only clash" with those mentioned?

I think it's much more complictated then this.

Let's face the problem for those writers: when you have to recap a story, you have to form groups so people understand your story. Unfortunately also some of you guys, make the same mistake and to quickly people, groups, parties etc. are put into one draw or the other draw, for each and every topic.

But/So please be aware, that the political problems in Thailand have/has many aspects and topics, covering various problems & topics, and not all those groups share each time the same view.

So I believe You can't jump from one topic to the other (it can be political change in Thailand, Corruption by elected members of the current or ex goverment,

new laws regarding constitution change, old habits die hard, new habits should be discussed more open etc. etc. ) and always form the same conclusions with

the same groups (as in my idea, wrongly the Economist and BBC write shortly in 2 sentences outlined - both use also funnywise "fuzz" for the other group? Maybe one even copied the others point of views?) according your agreements with them.

It totally depends on which topic you are talking about. I also must admit that myself I'm not always loyal to either one or other group for each topic, but that's life. It's not only black and white.

All I knew is, that I think any citizen from any country, should obey any "rightful & common used" law written done. If Thaksin is been accused of wrongdoings,

and he has to go to the court, he should not tell the public, he will go but then let his proxies in the government, change the laws (constitution), so he doesn't have

to stand trial anymore. And constantly deny just anyhting put up 100%. Why can we find in google and on Human Right Groups issues, postet in over 125'000

google hits (Thaksin +corruption).

So the fact is now, PAD has this as a major goal: "corruption charges stand so please finish them in the court" but is accused from various people on their "apparently" own ideological wrong-doings, such as supporting fully the military for a coup (past or future) etc, supporting only the Democrats (vice-verca) etc.

which I truely think is rubish, as these ideas jump up again, from those wronlgy mentioned "group building" ideas, for each and nearly every topic, regarding current Thail political problems. Even if you ask the 5 PAD member's and all those people going there on each different topic, you will get quite different point of views.

---

Thaigene, your first conclusion "that their are old family/money/patronage elites, and the Thaksinites, who just want to get rid of old things" is already wrong!

Patronage elites, are among Pro-Thaksin, Anti-thaksin and even I-don't-care/mind-about-Thaksin's, same goes for old and new (what is old and new anyway?)

Next wrong conclusion that the "patronage system" is on one side only too! Why do you think Jakaprob (during the time he lost power with Thaksin) took this in my eyes realy foul excuse, to try to discredit one bunch of people (who don't exist only on his other side), which we now suddelny should believe are the old politcal power group only? Not because he really believed in what he said, no; because he wanted to make more pressure, from the international press, to let his boss return to power I must assume.

He's the first one to listen only to Thaksin for years, despite even in 2001 critizsing Thaksin himself for media manipulation etc. I mean sorry how wrong can you get? 6 years you are in power with Thaksin being "patronized by his boss" and defend every little evil trick he did, to remain in and build up his dictorial power-base, and enjoy being the "official gov.-speaker - remember he loves to talk" of Thaksin and not one 1 day you utter anything about Patronage system?? But suddelny when you loose power (by a bunch of people, who really were basically fed up with Thakin's behaviour, which includes corruption and daily lies to media and people, exactly the same thing Jakaprob stood for and even warned us against, just a view months before he came to office) you come up with this so call "evil patronage system"? Just now? And only dish it up again later again, when your own mouth brought you into trouble (but not saying one word again, while you got your power back)?

Come on let's face it, in all society we have this guang-xi, seniority-, patronage-system or whatever you might wanna call it, but surely and not only on one politcal side only (in TH)!

That's a basic thinking error. Any talk about "patronage system" in my eyes has nothing to do with the ongoing problem, the PAD is trying to solve.

3rd wrong conclusion is that most middle-class people want rural people to shut up and not have their say within any election or political topic. Who says this, besides you? What most want, I think is eduction for the poor, and sustainable long-term planned (but not needed rushy Thaksin-style give-awy-cow and land title-deed, lottery growth) growth, so they understand what are honest or dishonest messages on goverment controlled TV channels - very strongly manipulated by Thaksin and wanna be

apparantly democracy lover Jakrapob & co.

If they never will get to this understanding point, they will always fail to understand "soap opera style politicians" who claim to be their saviour (but when you look at the real stats, they only got poorer and poorer by his system) by misusing these important main election-winning tools: local TV and Radio Stations.

By the way, I would like to point out, that the Democrats still get no air-time up-country (most don't have cable with other point of views such as ASTV etc.), such as Samak enjoys whenever he wants, as "Jakaprob" couldn't find any air-time for them.

This is I think the main points what people are fed-up! This long-term planned corruption to serve only one man (and his cronies). Elite's are on both sides, and both

are old and new, just Thaksin came later to power, but his clique is in any age range as any other party is too.

I think it's not just that easy as you are trying to project it here (above you try great - better then just bashing about on your fix group postion).

Al Gore gets paid huge amounts to say the opposite, so i guess there is a opening for you.

Show me anything from the last 50 years that show global warming is happening and co2 is the cause.

I am really open for real data, global warming, cooling whatever it may be.

Now everybody is guessing but we we will know for sure in a few decades.

I'm not sure, but I think It's the raising sea levels and climate change (see more cyclones, hurricanes

etc. all over the world), which will cause us problems. I wonder what your point is on Thailand?

Will be get more coastal loose, as most predict? Or you also think otherwise there and also not agree with points

laid out be Mr. Smith (see last 4 pages)?

I'm just reading last view pages that you keep pondering on the CO2 issue and that the humans

actually still produce a to small number to make an impact on global warming (your point) which

they claim is not natural anymore.

I also read, by the way that actually (maybe)

"Methane" from the northern hemisphere's tundra permafrost regions, will speed up the green-house affect, and then will chocka-blocking most gases

within our athmosphere, and that this, will be possibly the catastrophic tipping point. Any views on that?

Links:

http://www.communicationagents.com/sepp/20...bon_dioxide.htm

or just google up "global warming" +methane

Thanks for keeping this upmost import thread alive (title is stupid), but I can't find a better

thread, to collect and further input news found about:

"Rising Sea Levels and/or global disturbing climate changes & possible earthquakes & cyclones"

thanks!

Al Gore gets paid huge amounts to say the opposite, so i guess there is a opening for you.

Show me anything from the last 50 years that show global warming is happening and co2 is the cause.

I am really open for real data, global warming, cooling whatever it may be.

Now everybody is guessing but we we will know for sure in a few decades.

Yeah sure, no worries mate, you can sooner or later (or your kids) can park up right outside your 1st floor Bedroom from your house.

The floating market will also be extended until Sam Roi Yod, so you don't need to leave your house. Just call them from your 1st floor.

double quicky (post)

Regarding: "Rising Sea Levels and/or global disturbing climate changes & possible earthquakes & cyclones"

http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/toc/ViewData...?DataID=1007346

Quote

Experts Warn Bangkok Residents to Brace for Future Major Quakes & Floods

UPDATE : 5 June 2008

Bangkok residents are being warned to be on a look out for possible major earthquakes and floods in the near future.

National Disaster Warning Center Director Smith Thammasaroj said that Bangkok and nearby provinces are at risk of future earthquakes as the areas are located near the two fault lines in Kanchanaburi Province.

And with two major dams located in Kanchanaburi, the capital and its vicinity are also at risk of being flooded with 17 million cubic meters of water.

Moreover, buildings in greater Bangkok, Chiang Rai and Chiang Mai that have been affected by several tremors since 2004 are now so structurally vulnerable and some may collapse if hit by heavy quakes in the future.

Smith specifically suggested that buildings with six storeys are at greater risk of collapsing than high-rise structures.

He also predicted Thailand would be hit by more tropical storms during the months of August and October, while the capital would face flooding for a few weeks.

Meanwhile, seismic expert from Chulalongkorn University, Professor Panitan Lukkunaprasit added that more than two million structures in the country have not been designed to cope with earthquake, particularly all public buildings, such as schools and hospitals, as well as bridges and expressways.

Panitan is calling on all related state offices to start examining the strength of all at-risk buildings and structures, while suggesting that the government should make the matter a national agenda and allocate a special budget as well as convene a meeting of all specialists to plan preventative measures against the effects of all natural disasters and global warming as soon as possible.

Unquote

http://www.manager.co.th/Home/news1/astv120k.html

Sondhi live now (not sure though it's maybe replayed).

No screaming here.

Why don't you just link "the connection" between the Myanmar Junta and Sondhi, if you think it's so useful for us here (and seams to prove? Sondhi as = Junta) ?

I just found this here now, and really don't know what you mean?:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Light_of_Myanmar

http://myanmar.com/newspaper/nlm/index.html://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Li.../index.html

(googled up sondhi within, nothing found mate)

I just would like to point out his other drives, which I find quite useful for Thai society & International Relationships:

The only news channel in English in Thailand (did Thaksin ever came up with anything international like this?):

http://www.thailandoutlook.tv (just watch now: about women rights in Asia)

Did Thaksin ever initiated anything for the progress of Human Rights in Asia?

- update: found the myanmar goverment paper in English - link above

---

can you explain?

Do they have anything online? (new light of Bangkok)