nomoretalksin

Cabinate re-shuffle next to quell the pleas to resign?

Look at the voting numbers in the breaking news of "The Nation" (don't even understand why they care to list them each individual?) now.

All nearly same numbers. This cleary shows us that this isn't democracy (or individual parlament opinions) here at work; rather what the top guy says will be followed by the party leaders and PM himself. No chance currently to change anything in Thailand, until the recently awoken court systems continue to do their job (see/read HRM speach just a couple of days ago).

Good luck my beloved Thailand, you deserve justice.

What do we know so far?

The Nation:

Quote

Thana had argued in his earlier testimony that it was a mistake, as his driver got the wrong box for him to deliver to the court official.

The "wrong" box contained money intended for a land purchase, while Thana's wife was said to have filled another bag with chocolate candy.

Unquote

and later we hear:

Quote

On the day of the incident, Pichit, Suphasri and Thana went to the Supreme Court in order to facilitate matters when Thaksin and Pojaman went to report to court officials after returning from abroad. Thana was the one who handed over the "snack box" to a court official. They opened it up and found Bt2 million inside. They took pictures of the money and consulted their superiors. They called Thana in and asked whether he knew what was inside. Thana nodded his head. They gave the money back to him. During that time Thaksin and Pojaman were reporting to court officials. Thana took the snack box of money and handed it over to Pol Lieutenant Wathanyu Wittayapalothai, one of Thaksin's guards, who stored it in a car.

Unquote

So the money came from a "land purchase" handed over by his driver, to the court. Thana acknowledged that he knew that their was money inside,

and once he received it back, hand it over to Thaksin's guard Pol. Lietenant Wathanyu Wittayapalothai.

So the question is, who exactly is this Pol. Wathanyu Wittayapalothai (apprantly Thakins's guard)? And why did the money came from the driver, via non-acceptance at the court, back to Thaksin's people? Why not lock/interrogate immediately this 2 further suspects (which seams to be clearly closer to the source of bribe)?

If they claim it was from a land purchase, why not check also check the source, based on their statements?

Very interesting case, and could change the political landscape very soon.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/06/27/opinion/opinion_30076614.php

Quote - The Nation -

TALK OF THE TOWN

Jailhouse lawyers

Published on June 27, 2008

The news that Thaksin's lawyers had been ordered behind bars - and details of the court ruling- dominated the headlines of nearly all local newspapers.

In fact, one of the former lawyers of Thaksin who had been convicted was still missing as of press time. The news of Thaksin's lawyers being jailed managed to knock the ongoing debate about Preah Vihear from the headlines. Thai Post ran an editorial urging the court to trace the source of the Bt2 million. "Is it possible that a lawyer would make a big sacrifice which does not relate to the interest of the case?" asked the paper.Still, the debate on Preah Vihear continued in several papers. Matichon said the debate on the issues shows the beauty of the parliamentary system as at least the House debate has cooled political temperatures by turning attention from the street protests to the House.

Matichon's editorial was titled "Benefits of the House". It said the debate in the Upper House and Lower House is a part of legislators' duty to check the performance of the administrative branch.

This censure debate occurred at a time when political temperatures were rising largely due to the protest held by the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD). Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej questioned the legitimacy of PAD by asking who elected the group to power. PAD responded by saying street protests were a part of civil politics. Now that the focus has returned to the House, the government and House MPs have a forum in which they can prove their worth.

Matichon said there are certain benefits from the House debate. The comments raised during the debate should be beneficial to the administration. Therefore, the government should learn how to acknowledge its mistakes.

Nonetheless, Matichon noted voting in the House is a weakness in the system because chances are that MPs from the coalition parties will vote to support the government, regardless of the content of the debate or the public's response.

Matichon said MPs should thus think matters through by considering feelings of the people. After they have listened to the debate, what will they think if the coalition parties' MPs all voted to support the prime minister and the ministers under scrutiny, even though they had failed to answer several charges?

Matichon summed up by saying the political temperature at this point is high largely because of the Preah Vihear controversy. While accusations continue, the politicians should play a vital role in fostering unity in society and solving problems facing the country. Otherwise, the House would be nothing more than a forum for a war of words where the good of the people has no place. Voting, or abstention from voting, thus means a lot in terms of the credibility of the House in the eyes of society.

Unquote - The Nation -

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/06/27...on_30076616.php

Quote

OVERDRIVE

Would the owner of the pastry-box 'bribe' please step forward?

By Thanong Khanthong

The Nation

Published on June 27, 2008

It might end up as a case of "pla tai nam tuen" (a fish dies in shallow water).

This old Thai saying means that a careless and minor blunder can bring about a fatal casualty. It perfectly fits the situation that ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra is now facing.Three of Thaksin's lawyers were found by the Supreme Court to be guilty of contempt of court after allegedly attempting to bribe court officials with Bt2 million stashed in a pastry package. Pichit Chuenban, Suphasri Sriswat and Thana Tansiri were sentenced on Wednesday to six months in prison on the contempt of court charges. Pichit and Suphasri were taken to jail immediately. Thana is now undergoing medical treatment at Bumrungrad Hospital. But the police are putting him under custody.

The Supreme Court has also pursued a separate bribery case against the three defendants.

Thaksin and his wife Khunying Pojaman will be deprived of this legal team when the Supreme Court's Office of Political Holders starts a hearing into the Ratchadaphisek land deal on Monday. Pichit is a veteran lawyer, while Suphasri is a law clerk and Thana is a legal coordinator. Thana is married to a niece of Khunying Pojaman. (NMT: How can you have a lawer and/or legal coordinator in your family and represent you in the court? Will the courts believe you? )

Thaksin and Pojaman have been accused of abusing their power when Pojaman entered into the bidding to acquire a plot of land in the Ratchadaphisek area of Bangkok, auctioned by the Financial Institutions Development Fund. Thai law requires a spouse to approve a legal transaction. Pojaman won the bidding and Thaksin used his identity card as prime minister issued by the Prime Minister's Office, to back the legal transaction.

Thaksin spokesman Phongthep Thepkanjana earlier called the alleged bribery incident "a joke". But yesterday he issued a statement on Thaksin's behalf, saying that Thaksin expressed his regret over the Bt2-million bribery case and denied that he had anything to do with it. Phongthep also said Thaksin is willing to testify to the court regarding this case if asked to do so. (NMT: so kind of him, to take his time, for such small maters )

On the day of the incident, Pichit, Suphasri and Thana went to the Supreme Court in order to facilitate matters when Thaksin and Pojaman went to report to court officials after returning from abroad. Thana was the one who handed over the "snack box" to a court official. They opened it up and found Bt2 million inside. They took pictures of the money and consulted their superiors. They called Thana in and asked whether he knew what was inside. Thana nodded his head. They gave the money back to him. During that time Thaksin and Pojaman were reporting to court officials. Thana took the snack box of money and handed it over to Pol Lieutenant Wathanyu Wittayapalothai, one of Thaksin's guards, who stored it in a car. (NMT: !!)

The Supreme Court found that Pichit, Suphasri and Thana were acting as part of the same team because they were talking to each other throughout the day. The court did not believe Thana was acting alone. Thana tried to defend himself by saying that it was a misunderstanding. He intended to give a box of chocolates to court officials, but his driver brought him the wrong package, one with Bt2 million that had been gained from a land sale. The money was about to be deposited in a bank, he said. The Supreme Court did not buy this. (NMT: easy follow up the alleged land sale. Bring the withness who handed over the money, and show the records of the withdrawal !!)

Now that the Supreme Court has asked the police to further pursue the bribery case against the three defendants, will the investigation cover other characters? The Supreme Court's ruling showed that Thana handed over the package with the money in it to Wathanyu, Thaksin's personal guard, so that it could be stored in the car.

The ultimate question is who really owned that Bt2 million. The Supreme Court's verdict has already suggested that it was used in a bribery attempt. If this is the case, then the investigators will need to find out who owned such a large amount of money. A lawyer would never use his or her own money for the purpose of bribery. Once this bribery case goes to court, it will prove to be another big twist in the course of events.

Unquote

There you go, first Pro-Thaksin camp voice will come out this afternoon:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/06/26...es_30076573.php

Quote

He told his relatives and friends who visited him at the jail on Thursday morning that he was depressed last night and could not sleep.

Supreme Court on Wednesday sentenced Pichit and two other lawyers of Thaksin, to six months in jail after they found guilty of giving a court official, a bag filled with Bt2 million in cash, in early June. The three were legal team of ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra in charges of abusing power in purchasing Ratchadapisek land.

Meanwhile Thaksin's personal spokesman Pongthep Thepkanjana is scheduled to hold a press conference in the afternoon.

A relative told reporters that Pichit appeared in prisoner's uniform and looked sad when he saw his visitors weeping.

"It is not fair to me. If I really did it, I would not complain," the same relative quoted Pichit as saying.

Supasri Srisawat, one of the convicted, is jailed in the central prison for women, is sick reportedly from stress. The prison will send psychiatrist to talk to her.

Meanwhile police have issued arrest warrant for Thana Tansiri, one of the convicted, who was not present at the Surpreme Court on Wednesday is still at large.

Unquote

Maybe something like, the invisable hand, made the bags swap, actually the one with cash was for a private purchase and the bags were on purpose swaped by the evil invisible hand

ENGLISH POLITICAL PROGRAM tip:

after various requests on http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/ own "have your say", TOC agreed to rerun the very good program "HEADLINERS" (when do we get to hear good politicians speak in Thailand??) with the Democrats K. Korn (the should be Finance Minister).

I was since various times, quite impressed by him. If you want to hear some clever political opinions don't miss it TODAY:

Watch here online: http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/

25/06/08 : 18.00pm

26/06/08 : 02.00am:

Go Khun Korn and Khun Abhisit! Go! The main current political hope for Thailand's recovery.

PS/ I don't work with TOC

ENGLISH POLITICAL PROGRAM tip:

after various requests on http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/ own "have your say", TOC agreed to rerun the very good program "HEADLINERS" (when do we get to hear good politicians speak in Thailand??) with the Democrats K. Korn

(the should be Finance Minister).

I was since various times, quite impressed by him.

If you want to hear some clever political opinions don't miss it TODAY:

Watch here online:

http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/

(25/06/08) at these times; 18.00 and 2.00 (26/06/08)

Go Khun Korn and Khun Abhisit! Go! The main current political hope for Thailand's recovery.

EDITORIALS

The rule of law lives to fight another day

By The Nation

Published on June 26, 2008

Prison sentences handed down to Thaksin's lawyers show there is still faith in justice

The Supreme Court has given us renewed hope that the rule of law in this country still works. Yesterday it sentenced three lawyers who work for former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his wife, Pojaman, to six months in prison without probation. This verdict is almost earth-shattering.Pichit Chuenban, the lawyer working for Thaksin and Pojaman; Suphasee Srisawat, a personal assistant to Pojaman; and Thana Tansiri, another Thaksin lawyer, were found to have committed contempt of court through attempted bribery. The Supreme Court's verdict sends a strong signal that the judicial process cannot be bought at a time when the country is facing a political crisis. The judiciary offers the only hope of bridging the political divide by proceeding with cases against politicians in a straightforward manner.

On June 10, reports emerged that lawyers representing a big-time politician handed a gift box of candies to a court clerk. When the clerk opened the box, he found Bt2 million inside. One of the lawyers said he had just returned from a foreign trip and wanted to hand the money to court officials to share among themselves because they had been working very hard. At that time a senior judge happened to walk by. When he saw the money, he ordered it to be pictured. A brief interrogation ensued before the money was returned to the lawyer.

After the news reports broke the next day, the Supreme Court hastily formed a panel of three judges to investigate the bribery allegation. All the judges are known for their integrity and honesty, and following almost two weeks of investigation, the Supreme Court took the matter into its own hands by holding a trial on the case. Since it is a case of contempt of court, the Supreme Court can hear the case directly without having to pass it to the police first. If the case were to start with the police, chances are that it would drag on and that facts would be compromised along the way.

According to the Supreme Court's ruling, Pichit, Suphasee and Thana - the three defendants - were waiting at the Supreme Court to accompany Thaksin and Pojaman, who were reporting to the court upon their return from a foreign trip. Thana asked Suphasee to call ML Thitiphong Chompunut, a clerk in the Supreme Court's Office of Political Holders, to meet them in a lawyers' waiting room. Thitiphong was handed a bag of candies and Bt2 million in cash. Thitiphong consulted his superior before returning the gift and the cash to Thana.

The Supreme Court ruled that Thana was the one who brought the money in, and that he, Suphasee and Pichit committed contempt of court by trying to bribe court officials. The court rejected the defendants' claim that the gift was offered by mistake and that they had intended to give chocolates instead. The Supreme Court rejected Pichit's claim that he had nothing to do with the attempted bribery.

The Supreme Court gave the three defendants a harsh sentence that cannot be appealed. Since Thana did not show up at the Supreme Court during the reading, the Court issued a warrant for his arrest.

The Supreme Court's ruling will be a big setback to Thaksin and Pojaman in their fight against corruption and tax-evasion charges. The pair will have to find a new team of lawyers since Pichit and Thana are likely to face disciplinary action from the Lawyers' Council of Thailand. Their licences could be revoked.

The Supreme Court did not rule on the ownership of the money. As observers, we only want to ask who owned the Bt2- million that was put in a gift box intended to bribe the court. Did Pichit or Thana withdraw Bt2 million from their own bank accounts and wrap it as a gift? Or did either one of them take the Bt2 million from someone else in order to attempt to bribe the court? If the latter, who was that someone else?

--------------

NEWSMAKER

Not guilty, your honour

Published on June 26, 2008

Life is like a box of chocolates.

You never know what you are going to get. And so it is the case for Thana Benjathikul, a lawyer for former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra. Thana became the man in the news when he was appointed to defend Thaksin in the legal cases against him. But now the lawyer is making the headlines as one of the "usual suspects" accused of trying to bribe the judges.

Matichon yesterday interviewed Thana to find out what he had to say about the episode on June 10 when a box of pastries filled with Bt2 million in cash was discovered at the Supreme Court.

The following are excerpts from Thana's interview with Matichon ahead of the court decision on this case yesterday. Here's what Thana said to Matichon before the court's ruling.

Q: At present, in how many cases are you representing Thaksin?

A: I am assigned only to defamation charges that Thaksin filed with the civil court.

Q: As for the case involving the box of pastries with Bt2 million, why suddenly have you become a suspect?

A: On that date, I went to Kasikorn Bank at 10:30 and then I went to Siam City Bank's headquarters. I had lunch with my mother. I learned that there would be a trial involving a politician but I didn't go to the court. I had my hair cut in the afternoon and went back to the office. The next morning, my friends asked me if I had taken cash to the court. I was surprised. So, I read the news and found out that the People's Alliance for Democracy said that the person who carried the cash had 'T' as an initial. I protest my innocence. I didn't go to the court on that day. I was lucky because normally when Than [Thaksin] went to the court, I often accompanied him for moral support."

Q: Have you heard of or been accused of anything like this in your career?

A: Bribery is a serious issue in the justice process. Lawyers wouldn't dare to do that. I can't say whether such a practice exists… The court is the last resort and I believe that it has to be very careful… For Bt2 million, I think it's unbelievable. I couldn't believe this could happen in an information society like this. People would know. It's unlikely.

Q: But it happened.

A: Yes, it did. I see four possibilities. The incident might have been staged to discredit the defendant, to make him a scapegoat. Secondly, the money was meant to facilitate the court's work. Third, it might be a misunderstanding - the wrong box. Anything is possible. Fourth, the bribe may be real. It depends on how you look at it."

Another of Thaksin's lawyers, Thana Tansiri, and his chief lawyer, Pichit Chuenban, were found guilty and sentenced to six months' imprisonment for trying to bribe the judges.

from the http://www.nationmultimedia.com - 26JUN08

Finally some special sweet underground natural paper movements of the Thaksin's family come to light.

I just hope that not only the postmen will be jailed? They need to follow up of course!

Cross my fingers. Justice shall prevail!

No one should be counting their chickens just yet.

For Samak it's truly over, for PAD it's still a long way before they'll see justice for Thaksin. For PPP it's back to square one, minus excitement of a fresh electoral mandate. Trading horses for power will be a lot more difficult this time than back in January, but they'll get through it, they always do.

Coalition partners have suddenly become big and important and don't quite know how to squeeze maximum benefits from their unexpected fortune, but they'll come around, they always do.

In the meantime the decision in Yongyuth's case is less than two weeks away, and a couple of new Thaksin's cases are due to be handed to the courts, too. Maybe it's too little too late, but still very important for horse trading in parlament.

If Thaksin left the country yesterday, as some rapport, you can be sure he and/or his accused people/family etc., will delay the upcoming courts sheduling once again and be "no-show". Everytime, the court dates are on, they have some excuse (last time he told an English Journalist that 6 times already they tried to kill him, and he had to stay out of the country for security reasons) not to show up, until they are sure they "pastry boxes full of tea-money" found their way through?

How long can we wait until these people stand in the courts, as they claimed they will do?

A big to the Maj. Gen. Surapol Tuanthong and his troups! even if Samak apparently was not happy about them!

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gsN2uTP...CQyKvgD91E85CO0

Quote

Thai PM refuses to resign amid protests

By SUTIN WANNABOVORN – 2 hours ago

BANGKOK, Thailand (AP) — Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej on Saturday refused to bow to the demands of anti-government protesters who vowed to besiege his office until he resigned.

More than 20,000 demonstrators broke through a police cordon to occupy the area around Thailand's seat of government Friday and remained there through the night. But deputy government spokesman Natawut Saikau told The Associated Press that Samak would not resign.

"The demand is unreasonable," he said.

The protesters, led by the People's Alliance for Democracy movement, claim Samak's government is a proxy for former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, who was ousted in a 2006 coup.

"Our stance is clear, we will continue to protest and camp out here until this puppet government of Thaksin's is out of office," said alliance spokesman Suriyasai Katasila.

Samak would explain the ongoing political tensions in Thailand to the public later Sunday, Natawut said.

The prime minister met with the armed forces chief Friday but did not disclose what was discussed, the spokesman said. "He only said that the police are continuing to be in charge of handling the protest, and that it is not yet time for the soldiers to come out."

Rumors have swept Bangkok since the protests began three weeks ago that the country's powerful military would stage another coup, something which the top brass has repeatedly denied.

Claiming victory, the demonstrators set up a stage and other facilities on surrounding streets after managing to push through police lines Friday afternoon to surge forward to a fence on two sides of the Government House compound. After some initial scuffling, police gave little resistance.

"No one got hurt," police spokesman Maj. Gen. Surapol Tuanthong told Thai television station TPBS. "There was no image of the police hurting Thai people and that's the most important thing and should satisfy our superiors on every level. The politicians will have to find their own political solution."

He was responding to a question about why police let the demonstrators occupy the streets outside Government House despite earlier vowing to block them.

Alliance leaders say they don't want to occupy the compound itself but plan to peacefully maintain a siege around it.

During the afternoon, police estimated about 22,000 people were taking part in the protest, but the number continued to grow in the evening. Alliance leaders gave far higher figures that appeared to be greatly inflated.

The alliance led mass demonstrations before the 2006 coup demanding Thaksin step down for alleged corruption and abuse of power. They now accuse Samak's government of interfering with corruption charges against the former prime minister and trying to change the constitution for its own self-interest.

Samak's People's Power Party won general elections last December. His Cabinet is packed with Thaksin's allies and critics say rehabilitating the former leader is among the government's top priorities.

Unquote

and last night activities....

While protesters surrounded Government House yesterday, PM Samak was in a karaoke lounge at the Army Club monitoring the protests. Samak reportedly contemplated going to a number of venues where he could monitor and assess the situation. There are no conference rooms at the club, so Samak was escorted to the VIP 3 karaoke lounge. His entourage settled down in the VIP 2 lounge. Karaoke monitors were tuned to television stations so Samak and his team could monitor the demonstration. He was later joined by Army Chief, First Army Commander, and National Police Chief. Samak was then seen leaving as he sneaked into a pick-up truck and his motorcade reportedly headed in the direction of the Air Force Base at Don Mueang. It was reported that Samak used three vehicles yesterday in an apparent bid to

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/210608_News/21Jun2008_news02.php

I got told he didn't like the music there and his friends sang the wrong songs.....

Frank Sinatra's Greatest Hits, perhaps ?

I like to beat it (or them)

by Micheal Jackson I suppose.

Wearing a black hat, and making some break-beat twists!

according AL Jazeera 100'000 people?! What are the official figs? According TOC Chalerm said 50'000.

Any other figs?

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pac...4447455789.html

Quote

News Asia-Pacific

Thai protesters clash with police

Protesters breached police barricades at the main government office building [EPA] Thousands of demonstrators demanding the resignation of Thailand's prime minister have surrounded the main government complex in Bangkok, the country's capital.

Security personnel held back up to 100,000 protesters for three hours on Friday before a group finally pushed through police barricades to reach gates surrounding the prime minister's compound.

The protest's organisers, the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), said the demonstrators would occupy the streets around Government House until Samak Sunadravej and his cabinet step down.

Major General Surapol Tuanthong, a police spokesman, said thousands of police were deployed with riot gear to try to stop "the mob" from getting close to Samak Sundaravej's office.

"D-day showdown"

PAD which has been calling for Samak's resignation for almost a month, declared the demonstration a "D-day showdown".

"This is victory for PAD and the peaceful methods we have employed without any bloodshed or clashes," Suriyasai Katasila, PAD's spokesman said in a speech.

Al Jazeera's Selina Downes said the concern now was whether the Thai military will intervene to control the situation.

In 2005, the PAD led rallies against Thaksin Shinawatra, the former prime minister, before he was removed in a military coup in September the following year.

Officials ordered schools and government offices around Government House to close.

Wichianchote Sukchotrat, a government spokesman, said the closures would "allow police to work smoothly".

All ministers, including Samak, were also either on leave or posted at other locations.

A group of government supporters also gathered to try to stop the anti-government march.

Proxy government

Despite claims of staging a peaceful rally, PAD's security wardens reportedly carried baseball bats, plastic helmets and wooden shields, some bearing pictures of King Bhumibol Adulyadej.

Protests have been going on in Bangkok for nearly a month [EPA] Lieutenant-General Aswin Kwanmuang, the city police chief, asked leaders of the planned rally to cancel it and not to "damage the country further".

"Political problems should be solved in parliament, not on the street," he said.

The country's stock market has fallen more than 13 per cent since PAD started its campaign on May 25 amid fears of another coup.

The PAD campaign has so far managed to muster a few thousand supporters but numbers could be higher after trade union leaders at the main state power provider said they would join the rally.

Source: Al Jazeera and agencies

Unquote

Wouldn't it save everyone a lot of time if Sonthi, Chamlong and his dogs and Chuwit marched with the PAD thugs and took out the Election Commission and installed themselves as judge and jury?

Sunrise, I just wonder what kind of system you support, here in Thailand? Democratical elected government (with vote-buying), whitewashing and further supporting crimes? I really just wonder what you guys want? Anarchy in Thailand? Don't you guys think it's time to fight for the right, and move on later on, once the people accused face justice? What's wrong with that? Please explain more serious, so we can debate and not attack each other, like many Thai people do currently. Let's stick to discussions on this TV! Ok?

Political sources said Thaksin Shinawatra and the core leaders of the People Power Party have agreed that Samak should step down to pave the way for Education Minister Somchai Wongswat, a brother-in-law of Thaksin, to succeed him.

reall all here:

-- The Nation 2008-06-21

Now that would be Thaksin digging his own grave even further. How can you bring in your brother in law as PM, while claiming

you washed your hands off from politics?? Thaksin really topples all IQ standards.

Further on have your just recent ex lawyer with the current Foreign Minister jacket on currently, declaring give-away temple to Cambodia, and announce with your business partner in Cambodia just one day later, the financial investment in Cambodia (deal!), with/near a new connection road (paid by Thai tax-payers) which just oppened a view weeks ago (for quick access to his new investment) by the very same people. Really no hidding anymore, hey? How long do the Thai people want to swallow this?

Noppadon (Foreign Minister) can really invite the PAD on Monday for some coffee and tea, and he will have some serious explaining to do!

Various previous FTA's were behind doors, new maps drawn out as well etc. etc. These guys are really unbelievable selfish, and so open! Amazing Thakland....

story continues.... with even some farangs ....complaining about people standing up against these blunt corruptions!

65M elected the government? That includes children, teenagers and old folks too old to get to the voting stations

Maybe only those with degrees should be allowed to vote, assuming those with degrees have decent jobs and would not vote for anyone if given 500 baht? Then you would get a proper representation of who people want to be in power. Counteracting vote buying is difficult, and until this is addressed the crazy situation of who can buy the most votes will determine who gets into power (read this as the richest can do what they want and get more rich). Assuming the democrats would not lower themselves to vote buying means they would never get in office. Wonder how much PPP had to pay to get in power?

Most Thais need to realise that Taksin is history and supporting him now (via PPP) only serves to get Taksin off the hook and is not for the general good of the country. People need to move on and vote/support who they think would do good for the country, but then there is the vote buying issue...

Like your last paragraph, so true! The vote buying can be resolved if the kanman's (head village), stop supporting only 1 party!

thaksin's financial "under the table - tea money" framework up-country has to be broken! That's the main priority, prior any election.

both sides, up in protection gear mode (Copyright: TPS-Thailand)

The ugly side of a demonstration came out so far only visual. Thanks Buddha.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=128380

Quote

PM orders police not to use force against protests

(BangkokPost.com) - Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej will not use force against supporters of People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) who gathered in front of the Government House to demand the ouster of the premier and cabinet ministers, deputy government spokesman Nattawut Saikua said Friday afternoon.

He also said that Mr Samak vowed to continue to administer the country, and will protect the sovereignty of the people.

Mr Samak himself escaped an army of reporters who were waiting to interview him at the Army Club, where he called an urgent meeting with chiefs of armed forces and national police chief. He reportedly switched to a new car to avoid being followed by reporters.

First Army Commander Prayuth Chan-ocha said after the meeting that it was aimed at informing the premier about the rallies, and that Mr Samak did not give any special orders.

"Nothing much," he said. "We just reported him about current situation."

UNQuote

Nothing much, with the biggest demonstration crowed of approx. 70'000, since years!? Was there even a crowed like this size in 2006? Can't remember.

Hot News:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/06/20...cs_30076073.php

Quote

Samak dealt parliamentary blow

Besieged Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej suffered another severe political blow this evening when Parliament formally accepted the opposition's censure motion, practically preventing him from seeking a "graceful" way-out through a House dissolution.

The Democrats' censure motion, which was submitted to Parliament authorities earlier this week, was formally put on the House of Representatives' agenda, thus ending all doubts about validity of the motion. The Constitution states that the House cannot be dissolved once a censure motion has been submitted. There had been debate, however, over whether the process of submitting the Democrats' motion had been completed without it being put on the House's agenda. Now that Samak cannot dissolve the House, he has only two options as political pressure mounts:

1. he can try to hang on to his post with unpredictable consequences or 2. he has to resign.

But Samak is looking increasingly isolated. And the fact that the Democrats' motion was put on the House agenda at a time when street protests were intensifying raised a big question whether his allies in the coalition government have turned against him or involved in some kind of a conspiracy against him.

House dissolution had always been Samak's trump card, his only weapon that kept both enemies and suspicious allies at arm's length. Now that he could no longer wield this weapon, his position now looked more precarious than ever.

Unquote

What's this talk about inciting a coup? No one believes it is possible anytime soon.

I don't agree with PAD demand to oust the government, but considering daily fluctuations with Constitution amendment and meddling with judiciary, there isn't really any other choice - time to give PPP the benefit of the doubt has passed - they are not going to abandon their politically provocative ideas, only perhaps create an illusion of solving some immediate problems (like truckers threatening to shut down major roads) to score some sympathy points with the public.

In the meantime yesterday's session in Parlament was rather telling of their real intentions. They WILL try to let Thaksin scott free of all charges, among other things.

I also want to remind people that Thailand is not a presidential republic, change of a Prime Minister is not big deal, he wasn't elected by the people, and the government coalition can fall apart at any moment, it doesn't mean that election results gets overturned. If one day five coalition partners decide to join Democrats and form a new government, it doesn't mean that elections are nullified. The sky is not falling.

Look at the West - every now and then there are news of coalition partners switching camps, even Tony Blair wasn't voted out. No one calls it a "government overthrow". Why all the scaremongering?

Samak has options of how to diffuse the situation without any violence and without calling new elections, it's really not PAD's problem that he is not in control of his own party.

Also I think calls to resolve the problems in parlament are somewhat naive - it has been tried already and it got nowhere. In fact Democrats and the Senate are trying to put the government on the right track as we speak, but PPP refuses to cooperate. Even some PPP members are calling on Dems to negotiate the way out, but they are not in control and can't promise anything.

Bottom line is, even though some PAD actiones and demands are over the board, the main thrust is right, there's no reason for them to stop their rallies until solution is found.

Plus society/comments !

http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/

good analyzes (spelling??) in English now!

Just saw: Interior Minister Chalerm, claimed that 50'000people were today there! PAD says 100'000people!

So guess somewhere in the middle: 75'000! That's amazing!

Wow, I'm really prowed of the Thai people now! Finally they came out!

That's even more than in 2006. Very unusual for the normaly politicaly uninterested, inactive Thais to raise their voice

on the streets (against corruption) in such big numbers!

Great! Let's hope the government get's the message now and changes will follow!

A big hand to the boys in brown on how they handled this situation.

Got fat in the line of duty comes to mind.

But in all fairness i am glad no one has been hurt so far.

fully agree

but also would like to note that the PAD has been peacefully rallying since 2005!

Hope it stays like this!

You, almost alone, have been repeating this is not a democratically elected government.You have been told time and time again why you are wrong.No serious forum member agrees with you even the hard line anti Thaksin/Samak group.You have failed to produce any evidence for your case from a credible third party.You just keep repeating the lie again and again.Now that is boring.

Younghusband, in our village in Isaan, believe me we had since 2001 only PPP=TRT knocking in our and our neighbours doors, for each election. We never had any any democrats

paying cash against votes. Even worse last election, with the village boss, waiting on the streets 100m behind the beggars, with warning eye contact, in case we wouldn't smile

and take the money. It's all about a little research up-country, and checking the build-up framework Thaksin has build, to see how democratical this country, has become under

his dictatorship, which never was democratical once the votes have been counted (he even admited that he didn't care much about democracy and so he handled TH).

Why do you think he bought Manchester City? Exactly for the same simple reason as the vote buying procees should achieve: Populist media campain for the majority up-country people to gain

and stabalize future election votes.

I agree it was not better 10 years ago and previously, with various parties cheating, but this period was the worst ever. That's why people are fed-up, if you continue to support so called wrongly elected goverments, the whole country will be robbed, with not one inch intererest in eduction for the poor, ecological protection for this wonderful country etc.; and only global big crony companies sucking out the last lit bit out of everyone and everything and ending up buying foreign football clubs with the shear greed for the cup of the cups, with stolen corrupt money.

More and more, for themselves and noone else.

On the other-side The Democrats under Abhist, Korn and Chuan Lekpai, always did the best in a good honest transparent way, as once would expect in a modern democracy.

I'm absolutely 100% sure, if the PPP wouldn't have cheated last election (just look at all the open EC cases aganst them, which are surely just the tip of the iceberg of cheatings)

we would have The Democrats today trying to fix Thaksin mess, left behind ruling the country.

That's a fact, most people understand and a reason why they are so fed up with a corrupt elected government,

not even ruled, by the people official placed in, but delegated by the old political Thaksin clique in the background, which gives them orders via cell phone calls, and short meetings.

Samak admited, his goverment is "an ugly duck" and he "was/is a proxy for Thaksin". Why the guguck you want to support such a cracy constellation, especially you as a democracy supporter? Good luck for your further "indirect" (which works in most ways, very directly at the end of each election) support for Thaksin (you do it indirectly with many other people as well), by not understanding that you have to take sides, for a better solution, orelse really nothing will change at all, then the status quo we have today.

Watch here how it all began a view years (thaksin new high roller as they say in the video) ago, with a long future to come, when the people continue to think like you do and thinking

all parties are the same corrupt, which is definitely not true:

Buying The Way To Power - Thailand

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv--v9b2SSA

Especially a ruling PM, declaring corruption as normal and doing it himself, is the worst that an not really yet full educated country can happen. Even students just 2 years ago in polls, started

to reflect his thinking that: "corruption is accepted". How bad can it get? We need defintely a better role model, without any proxies. Either we all help to try to achieve this, or we let

the others continue to rob this wonderfuly country, until all is gone and robed and sold out to other foreign companies, for a quick cash-flow for their greedy needs (by changing laws a view weeks before, while being in office, so they don't need to pay tax).

"The vote buying is well known, everyone knows it....and no the others are not the same..."

Bwhaaaaaaaaaa

The others are not the same?

You are kidding me on - you just came up the Chao Phrya in banana boat?

That's an old agrument we read over and over, by mostly superficial political observers.

The whole (80-90%) upcountry with their village bosses, are paid by PPP=TRT. It's a network of corruption by mainly one men and group of people.

I think you better read all threads here on Thaivisa, and read more newspapers. The Democrats have not one case of election fraud on record,

in the last view years. If I'm wrong show me the link please, instead of writting such superficial comments. Maybe you can find one, but not more

and then compare with the other-side. Just read the newspaper from yesterday.

Sorry that's an old story, prior 2000. The Democrats have changed for the good, since various years. Bring links to prove otherwise, not

just cheap talk.

What is the actual point of this protest? Do the PAD seriously think that the Government will step down or are they hoping for another coup?

I guess they hope Samak resigns and the coallition party's jump-ship's (Banharn raised a similar opinion last week, so did Chavilit today)

to the opposition: The Democrats. I'm sure everyone agrees that a further coup is a big waste of time and no-one will gain anything (we just loose another

2-3 years and Thaksin's pro and the western world will not accept any court-ruling under military rule, even if correctly and fair done).

We need an honest party (the best honest party) with intelligent people on the top, working for the country, not for themselves, or any Puppet-Master.

Currently only K. Korn, K'Abhisit etc. would be able to guide Thailand out of this mess, in a policital correct democratic way!

Maybe this will happen soon, thanks to the PAD, who are not giving up for the right of "oppression against big time corruptions & cheatings".

Think mid-to longterm, not only see the people on the streets as the reason for economical depression. This vision is short-shighted and

the fact, what is going on already since 2001/2 when Thaksin took over, and removed most governmental check & balances and started

robbing this country, in big scale (and still is doing with tax-payers money).