nomoretalksin

Bangkok is sinking. Has nothing to do with global warming, eh pardon me, climate change.

It has everything to do with groundwater levels and building in a swamp.

Well done - Bangkok is sinking because of groundwater withdrawals and the weight of building pressing down into a drying clay base. In short, the wetland has been destroyed. With it goes multiple functions and services, it once provided to the environment and critters dependent on its health, including humans. It will also lead to the release into the atmosphere of carbon dioxide and methane, previously locked in the bog under Bangkok.

Ah, those two gases sound familiar, eh? Hmmmm, greenhouse gases that will add to the others already filling up our fragile atmosphere from human-linked causes and contribute to the discernible trend of global climate change, incl. global warming. The polar ice caps melt, the sea level rises (even in distant tropical shores, despite what some Thai hydrologist may think), and cities like Bangkok go under. Or they pay more and more of their GDP's to protect them from going under. Simple, eh?

Well, not really, nothing ever is. But remember that old one about a butterfly's wingbeat in the Amazon causing a hurricane in the North Atlantic? That was simplistic, but it made lots of people think about the inter-connectedness of events on this little planet of ours. Actions and reactions. Positive and negative feedback loops. Some of the folk back in the 60's and 70's started to join the dots and started to see a bigger picture of inter-dependence. Apparently, you weren't one of them.

thanks for this interesting Bangkok/Thailand related post. Nice read

Thaksin to splash ($$) cash in record City deal

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/tha...al-1388072.html

It's true however that some military men, misused the good intentions of their colleagues after the coup. As I heard especially around and in the airport there were some stories. That's another details, even within the coup-people there were good and bad people working and/or stealing. That's another true fact which I guess is understandable a point for the anti-coup people.

But Khun Sonthi and Surayud, I only can support. These are honest & good men, working for the country. Especially Khun Surayud

Firstly the 1997 constitution was widely hailed as being the most progressive ever in terms of democratic reform.

Then why no protests when it was abrogated by the military?

I believe the 2006 constitution includes powers for the National Security Council, which would I guess be synonymous with the military.

Putting yourselves in the shoes of someone who truly stands for democracy, the most logical position would be to support the reinstitution of the 1997 version and the condemnation of the 2006 version.

Surely the 2006 constitution was a step backwards for Thailand regarding the passage towards democracy.

1997 Constitution was was indeed hailed as the most progressive when it was first adopted, ten years ago but by 2006 it failed hopelessly on several important points - not only checks and balances on runaway PM's power, but on people participation, too.

Still, it was scrapped to justify the coup, not becuase it wasn't working or it was too democratic. The new, 2007 (not 2006 as you said), constitution gives MORE power to the people and makes politicians MORE accountable that 1997 version could ever have.

It has some contentious points, too, but nothing really urgent. PPP wants to let MPs work for the government and not for legislative branch as they were elected to - MPs want their hands on the money.

Undeniably the main consitutional problem for PPP is losing court battles for electoral fraud. When you can't argue the case - argue the law. If they can't amend constitution in time, they'll be found guilty.

Yes, I don't necessarily disagree with your point. But MY main point is NONE of the parties are interested in public participation. So I really wish the coup-apologists and upper-class-democrat whingers (not saying you're one) would p-l-e-a-s-e stop pretending that the Democrats are carrying the heavy heart of the 90% Thai poor people of their sleeves. That's just as laughable and disinegenuous as what they're trying to do to Jakrapob right now frankly (he may deserve a hiding for other things, being greasy for example - but not that FCCT presentation).

There is no question about what's going on here in my mind. It's the Establishment versus the Thakisnites all over again. The Constiution is a red herring - since any other Government could come in and change it again! The PAD/Democrats/Establishment just don't want to wait for the next election, can't face the fact they lost the last one, and so are trying to force another coup. Anyone really believe otherwise?? Like CM Sally said - where were the protests when a hand-picked military junta body drafted the last Consitution? Hmm - no protests then..strange...

Look either you understand that the last coup was an honest "good coup" againt "corrupt politicians" or you don't. If you place every coup in the same pot, and don't check the details, you will never understand. The constiution was not amended for selfserving purpose, it was amended for the good of the people, and they implemented check&balances for corrupt politicians. Why don't you go google up what they actually changed in the 2006 amedment, rather than just critizing it, without knowing the details? And then also, see what the PPP now want to amend? These are the little details which makes one know who is on the peoples side and who not.

Also don't call Khun Abhisit just the establishment. He's currently most probably the best & most intelligent politician and choice Thailands has. If you want Thailand to go forward, you have to choose what we have. If you shut them all down, as some of you do, we have anarchy and chaos. Support for the most honest & best solution we have, and Thailand can go forwards. Abhisit is a true politician, since he was young and studied politics in England. He's not a business-man (selfish) and I believe he is the true "current" best solution for Thailand. You have any better solution in mind?

The other thing is PPP despite all efforts by the last goverment to stop election fraud, did it again! We all have proove & knowledge of it.

So how come they should not be punished, as it was clear and it was the current law not to do so. But they still didn't want to stop, as they knew without cheating they most propably couldn't win. And don't forget, they just one by a short margin!

I'm 100% sure, if the PPP didn't do any vote-buying at all, we would have the Dems and Khun Abhisit in the sit today.

If you cheat, you should be punished, pasta.

The PPP const. amendment now want to cancel now these punishments. Totally different situation. Guys get a bit more clever before you just blame people by their names (uh....junta etc.) and race (thaigene2) and actions, without checking the facts.

There are calls for setting up a Constitution Drafting Assembly to represent all sectors of society, not just government MPs. Democrats are going to submit their own proposal on how to proceed with amendments regardless of what PPP is doing.

Where were they when a military dictatorship was pushing through a referendum on exactly the same issue. Collective amnesia??

Just read this thread & others again slowley and understand the reason for the coup and check out the polls after the coup and also read in various other sources. Go and speak to the uni-professors, with the educated Thai people. You will start to understand soon.

I'm not changing the argument at all Plus - for another view (very similar view to mine), and to make the point it's not just a couple of people here on Thaivisa - is a letter to the Editor at the Bangkok Post published today. I think it sums it up quite well. This person also takes view that the Constitutional issue is a red herring:

Gutless PAD (Bangkok Post, Postbag, 28.05.2008)

Great. Now we have the PAD demanding that PM Samak and the cabinet resign. With the side order for members of Parliament seeking a charter amendment to be impeached. I would like to ask these gutless wonders at the PAD: Where were you when the 1997 Constitution, which we paid for with our blood and tears, was ripped apart at gunpoint?

I am not a fan of Mr Samak. I personally find many of the positions he has held over the years to be in the gravest opposition to what I believe. I would like to point out certain things to the PAD which hopefully they will take note of:

1. The 2007 charter was accepted by the majority of the people. Look at the numbers that voted for it. And that was when the military was in full control of the nation.

2. The PPP won the election fair and square, despite the military's best efforts to keep them out.

3. The PPP had made it known in their election manifesto, in their speeches to the public, that they will, if given a mandate, aim for a charter amendment.

By what right is the PAD trying to bring our country to the edge of another ugly confrontation? My advice to the PAD is: Control your ego!

SANTI RATTISETHI

1. yes exactly suprisingly despite in general people don't understand things about constitution etc (the details) they voted for it. If the others also would have understood (as in Europe were people are more educated to vote on such issues), the purpose of the constitution change would have been accepted by 90% plus. I'm sure.

2. fair? sorry that's not true also. They used their same framwork with their paid head of villages up-country as usual...

(I never heard of any democrats vote buying in the last vote - Did you?). If you want to know about Thaksin and PPP and vote-buying tactics I can find you a great You-tube documentery showing this, as their payments for votes already startet to be established in 2001 + 2002 and continued to be a big networks of receivers and vote-buying pressure in the villages (if you don't vote for those we can't fullfill your local village needs) up to today. etc. It's now very difficult to crack this network.

3. to bring back Thaksin and the TRT, those who already cheated and were accused of misusing their jobs to enrich themselves.

Boy some of you mates really not well informed, just riding on the Western-Democratic book. Check out reality and the details please!

And please remain polite and cool, after all we want a discussion and not the same unfriendly political chaos we have in the parlament (this goes especially to Thaigen2)

By the way the constitution amendments with clear advise of changes (each Thai received the new constitution in the house, prior voting!) have been already voted for just in 2006, and approved by the majority of the Thai people!

Just watched a good discussion on TOC!

http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/

I understand now more how Thaksin,Samak & co want to amend the constitution.

Very stupid: They first want to hold a "referendum"

(2bn THB costs = for those Yes or No election) where all people in Thailand will simply answer following question:

"Do you want to amend the constitution yes or not?" and then as I understand later on via parlament, with the majority in the house for the Thaksin clan, will decide themselves, what they actually will amend, which as might be as following:

- bring back the banned 111 TRT

- drop all charges (or investigations) against Thaksin

- drop all election fraud charges by his proxies during last election

- remove the so badly needed check&balances mechnism brought in by the last Surayud goverment (after coup)

etc. etc.

Not a bit Banana-Republic (Burma) tactics and selfish act here?

Now I understand even more why the PAD are on the streets. Why spend 2bn THB for an election, if the details are not clear what the people are actually voting for?

Did I understand this correctly, or any errors in my (small) understanding of the ongoing events?

Imgage copyright/tks to -The Nation-

Oho, dangereous mobs destabalizing the economy?

Reuters:

New streets protests in Thailand hurt stability

read here (link just corrected now):

http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssFinanci...lBrandChannel=0

Partial stupid title by reuters, nearly each time demonstrations go about in any market outside the western world market.

But as soon as a any demonstrations takes place in the West, they always start analyzing why the demonstrations take place in the first place and keep a good eye on the local politicians and current political activities.

But in Non-West (poorer) countries, "only the demonstrations + demonstrators" seam to be the cause of the political & economic unrest & the following market and investment slow-down or whatever coming, in that particular country.

And therefore the "main reason" and burden for the poor shareholders in the West.

Check google, they wrote the same 2 years ago. The Ecomomist, Financial Times will follow soon in the same line etc.

I'd like to ask and note, shouldn't it be more fair to have a title like

Current goverment provoke new streets protests in Thailand & hurt stability?

PAD URL currently not able to open :

http://www.astv-tv.com/ (live PAD coverage, if still ongoing?)

Anyone else can open it?

Insider Plus

I think another possible reason is, that Thaksin can't afford "especially currently" any "further" negative press in the UK. If they will get more and more wind that the Thai demonstations, are mainly related "to him and his proxy party", he would be there even more under fire there than he is already now.

Especially important short before announcing's Sven's kick-out and new transfers etc. for his Football Club Manchester City.

However he should understand, if he still keeps on fingering in Thai politics, he will never be able to stop the spreading of the truth, especially not in the UK!

It's all about pleasing the press, with the right stories (but in his case unfortunately, not always right actions).

So that's maybe another reason for their sudden pull-back after the PAD demonstrations caught already international attention.

PAD has maybe already achieved something in the last view days.

Well, if Sondi L. and Samak can kiss and make up quickly, we can get the PAD started on building the dykes and finally doing something constructive for Thailand!

nice to hear a positiv solution/idea from you (without complaining about other valuable Thai institutions ).

Maybe our sunrise will be endless!

Serious, you are right: The politicians are planing their mega-projects always excluding this problem! unfort.

Nomoretalksin

I'll see your global warming scaremongering and raise you Widescale Global Cooling

http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature+Monit...rticle10866.htm

Thanks for link! Intersting, but let's try to focus on statistic, which not only cover a view years (or 1 year)

Anyhow nice to get a cold ice-cream from you, to cool down a bit while also reading your other (as well from others) interesing posts above.

************* to Thaiadventure***************************

WOW! Your avantar makes me laugh each time I look at it. Sanuk! Is this supposed to be "Snowhite and the wolf"?? he he Where did you get that? Is that sort of an Asian comedy film?

*******************************************************

Back to topic:

"Rising Sea Levels and/or global disturbing climate changes"

(global warming seams to be wrong expression after looking at above link)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,304044,00.html

Thai Official: Bangkok Will Be Underwater in 20 Years

KHUN SAMUT CHIN, Thailand

At Bangkok's watery gates, Buddhist monks cling to a shrinking spit of land

around their temple as they wage war against the relentlessly rising sea.

Pic copyright AP

Water crashes into the Wat Khun Samut Chin Buddhist temple during high tide near Bangkok, Thailand.During the monsoons at high tide, waves hurdle the breakwater of concrete pillars and the inner rock wall around the temple on a promontory in the Gulf of Thailand. Jutting above the water line just ahead are remnants of a village that has already slipped beneath the sea. Experts say these waters, aided by sinking land, threaten to submerge Thailand's sprawling capital of more than 10 million people within this century.

Bangkok is one of 13 of the world's largest 20 cities at risk of being swamped as sea levels rise in coming decades, according to warnings at the recent Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change meeting held here. "This is what the future will look like in many places around the world," says Lisa Schipper, an American researcher on global warming, while visiting the temple. "Here is a living study in environmental change."

"If the heart of Thailand is under water everything will stop," says Smith Dharmasaroja, chair of the government's Committee of National Disaster Warning Administration. "We don't have time to move our capital in the next 15-20 years. We have to protect our heart now, and it's almost too late." The arithmetic gives Bangkok little cause for optimism. The still expanding megapolis rests about 3½ to 5 feet above the nearby gulf, although some areas already lie below sea level.

But the city, built on clay rather than bedrock, has also been sinking at a far faster pace of up to 4 inches annually as its teeming population and factories pump some 2.5 million cubic tons of cheaply priced water, legally and illegally, out of its aquifers.

This compacts the layers of clay and causes the land to sink. Everyone — the government, scientists and environmental groups — agrees Bangkok is headed for trouble, but there is some debate about when. Anond, who heads the Southeast Asia START Regional Center, believes total submersion may not be imminent, but Smith disagrees.

"You notice that every highway, road and building which has no foundation pilings is sinking," says Smith. "We feel that with the ground sinking and the sea water rising, Bangkok will be under sea water in the next 15 to 20 years — permanently."

Once known as the "Venice of the East," Bangkok was founded 225 years ago on a swampy floodplain along the Chao Phraya River.

But beginning in the 1950s, on the advice of international development agencies, most of the canals were filled in to make roads and combat malaria. This fractured the natural drainage system that had helped control Bangkok's annual monsoon season flooding.

"It's the only city in the world where a car has collided with a boat," says Smith, recalling a deluge where residents commuted by rickety boats down roads flanked by high-rises.

As head of Thailand's meteorological department in 1998, Smith warned with little success that the country's southwest coast could face a deadly tsunami. He was proven right.

He urges that work start now on a dike system of more than 60 miles — protective walls about 16 feet high, punctured by water gates and with roads on top, not unlike the dikes long used in low-lying Netherlands to ward off the sea.

The dikes would run on both banks of the Chao Phraya River and then fork to the right and left at the mouth of the river.

Anond, an oceanographer who studied at the University of Hawaii, says other options must also be explored, including water diversion channels, more upcountry dams and the "monkey cheeks" idea of King Bhumibol Adulyadej.

The king, among the first to alert Bangkokians about the yearly flooding, has suggested diverting off-flow from the surges into reservoirs, the "cheeks," for later release into the gulf.

"There is no one single solution to respond to climate change," says Anond, whose team is putting forward recommendations based on several scenarios. "We have to start doing something about this right now."

click here to continue to read: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,304044,00.html

Unquote

So the leading Weather etc. expert in Thailand who predicted the Tsunamie, says only 15-20 years until Bangkok is under water (if no dike is been build, which would be needed to start now). Any other predictions regarding Thailand, Bangkok, Down South etc. found?

Interesting Breaking News:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30074098

Snoh tells PAD to go home, express confidence amendments will be aborted

Pracharaj Party leader Snoh Thienthong Tuesday told the People's Alliance for Democracy to stop its protests and go home, saying he believes the charter amendments will eventually bog down. Snoh said he had talked to "the old boss", apparently referred to former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, and the old boss agreed with him that the charter should not be amended now.

He said he had learned that some 50 senior members of the People Power Party did not agree with the plan to amend the Constitution now.

"The amendments will definitely fail and I bet it with my head. I believe the motion will be withdrawn," Snoh said.

The Nation

Unquote

Seams like all is controlled 100% by Thaksin and they are not even hidding it anymore! 5 minutes later Nation again:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30074099

://http://www.nationmultimedia.com/bre...d=30074099

20 senators, 2 MPs withdraw support of amendment motion

A total of 20 senators and two MPs have withdrawn their names from the motion seeking to amend the Constitution, the secretary-general of the House of Representatives said Tuesday. Phithoon Phumhiran, the secretary-general of the House of Representatives, said so far the motion was sponsored by 134 MPs and senators after the 20 senators and 2 MPs withdrew their support. He said those who sponsored the motion could still withdraw their name before the motion is put on the agenda of Parliament. He said it will be up to Parliament President Chai Chidchob to decide whether to put the motion on the agenda during the extraordinary session of Parliament next month.

The Nation

Unquote

Conclusion: Did Thaksin meanwhile made a deal with all the courts (under the table) and sees no need for amendments anymore?

Funny Thai Politics, since approx 6 years, decided by one man only?..... how long still we will hold this szenario? True as you guys above say:

Until the Democrats have "same" access to State government TV (and local Radio).

still on the charter amendment try by PPP?:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=127863

PAD completes gathering 20,000 names

(BangkokPost.com)

People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) has completed gathering 20,000 names to impeach MPs and senators who try to abolish the constitution endorsed by the referendum. As more people come to sign their names in a bid to impeach the lawmakers, supporters of PAD continue to gather at the Makkhawan Bridge to air opposition to attempts engineered by People Power party to amend the charter. The protesters were blocked on Tuesday from moving to the parliament, where the cabinet held a weekly meeting. Pracharaj leader Sanoh Thienthong, meanwhile, called on protesters to disperse and take care of their personal matters. He also opposed the cabinet's approval of national referendum on charter amendments, saying the 2-billion-baht budget should be spent on something else.

Unquote

Important day for Thailands Future

(Funny that The Nation quotes Pracharaj Party leader Snoh Thienthong saying another story than the Bangkok Post)

Anyone has more information about this man?

Firstly the 1997 constitution was widely hailed as being the most progressive ever in terms of democratic reform.

Then why no protests when it was abrogated by the military?

I believe the 2006 constitution includes powers for the National Security Council, which would I guess be synonymous with the military.

Putting yourselves in the shoes of someone who truly stands for democracy, the most logical position would be to support the reinstitution of the 1997 version and the condemnation of the 2006 version.

Surely the 2006 constitution was a step backwards for Thailand regarding the passage towards democracy.

1997 Constitution was was indeed hailed as the most progressive when it was first adopted, ten years ago but by 2006 it failed hopelessly on several important points - not only checks and balances on runaway PM's power, but on people participation, too.

Still, it was scrapped to justify the coup, not becuase it wasn't working or it was too democratic. The new, 2007 (not 2006 as you said), constitution gives MORE power to the people and makes politicians MORE accountable that 1997 version could ever have.

It has some contentious points, too, but nothing really urgent. PPP wants to let MPs work for the government and not for legislative branch as they were elected to - MPs want their hands on the money.

Undeniably the main consitutional problem for PPP is losing court battles for electoral fraud. When you can't argue the case - argue the law. If they can't amend constitution in time, they'll be found guilty.

    read above again very slowley and note the difference of "constitution change" (the coupmakers didn't scrap the 1997) they amended it, for the people to have more protection against corrupt politicians, the same reason they did the coup in the first place.

http://enews.mcot.net/view.php?id=4438

Quote

Few Bangkokians see need for urgent charter amendment BANGKOK, May 26 (TNA) – Only 4.5 per cent of the Thai capital's residents -- about one out of every 22 persons surveyed -- believe that amending Thailand's constitution is a matter of urgency, according to a survey.

The Ramkhamhaeng Poll was conducted to seek the opinions of people in Bangkok and its environs with a random sample of 2,003 persons on "Impact of News about Charter Amendment on Public Sentiment amidst Economic Crisis."

It showed slightly over two-thirds of the respondents -- 68.8 per cent -- thought an effort to rewrite the charter was made for the personal interest rather than the common one while 14.2 per cent viewed it was made for the common interest.

Nearly all respondents felt the government should be addressing the nation's economic challenges, and that focusing on constitutional change at a time of economic crfisis is not in the national interest, but rather serving the narrow interests of politicians. It found 92.6 per cent thought what the government should solve urgently at this moment is the economic situation while only 4.5 per cent said it should amend the constitution.

In addition, nearly two-thirds -- 65.1 per cent -- disagreed with Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej's move to set aside around Bt 2 billion to hold a referendum on the charter amendment.

Asked how they feel with the current political situation, a profound majority -- 77.3 per cent -- said they are frustrated, disappointed and feeling without hope about the current situation, and 20.7 per cent have no interest in what is going on.

Simultaneously, 46.3 per cent viewed the developing conflicts on the constitutional amendment question puts the Thai politics at increasing risk of experiencing violence.

Asked which member of the cabinet could cause (the most) political difficulty, nearly two-thirds or 60.5 per cent chose Prime Minister Samak himself, 27.4 per cent identified Prime Minister's Office Minister Jakrapob Penkair, as the major troublemaker, with 8.2 per cent seeing Interior Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung, and 3.9 per cent identifying Public Health Minister Chaiya Sasomsap as providing headaches for Thailand's political body. (TNA)-E005

Political News : Last Update : 10:39:20 26 May 2008 (GMT+7:00)

Unquote

no it's not the official PAD logo. Do they have one? (like to play with graphics)

News from MCOT (government & military channel, right?):

http://enews.mcot.net/view.php?id=4447

PM: PAD rally no reason for invoking internal security law against protesters BANGKOK, May 26 (TNA) -- Holding a rally against the government is not a reason to invoke Thailand's internal security law, Prime Minister Samak Sundaravaj said Monday.

Explaining that the ongoing rally organised by the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) to demand the government scrap its plan to rewrite the constitution is not against any law, Thai Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej said Monday he would not invoke the internal security law to deal with the activists.

Mr. Samak, who also serves as defence minister, a capacity in which he might be called to act in this

instance, denied accusations made by retired Maj-Gen. Chamlong Srimuang, a PAD core leader, that the government plans to use the law to deal with the PAD leaders.

He said the government had never considered invoking the internal security law against the demonstrators rallying near the UN Economic and Social Commission for Asia and the Pacific (ESCAP) building on Rajadamnoen Avenue.

Police will deal with the demonstration, said Mr. Samak, adding that the ongoing rally would definitely affect the country's image.

Nonetheless he appealed to the protesters to understand his reason for calling for a referendum. The prime minister affirmed he had called for a referendum to determine if the majority of the public wants to retain the 2007 charter, written by military-appointed law and constitutional experts, or not.

The process would take only 45 days, he said. Why couldn't they (PAD members) wait? he asked rhetorically.

"I don't want the public to blame me as a dictator, therefore, the police will have to deal with this matter,"

Mr. Samak said.

He noted that at least three envoys had told him during the Thai foreign service meeting earlier Monday that the present political troubles in Thailand would deter foreigners from investing in Thailand.

Thailand's envoys are concerned with the country's political problems, he said, especially the ongoing demonstration of the PAD, said Mr. Samak. (TNA)-E111

Unquote

PAD average get-togethers

Sympatico pic + smile

http://www.nationmultimedia.com (tks for the pic)

double post -deleted-

Dateline, May 26, 2080: Today in Thailand, the Prime Minister announced, from the seaside town of Chiang Mai......

nice one

Robin Hood (alia peace blondie) can you please make sure Thailand is meanwhile until 2080 not totally robbed by the current goverment?

And please reserve a small ankering place for my klong-tuk-tuk at Chiang Mai promenade, and make sure still some

trees are standing up south of Thailand

...deleted...

Again - I don't like Samak or Thaksin. But only a mental midget can't see what's going on here - or is someone who simply chooses to look the other way. And yes, I agree, PPP are trying to push through a change to the constitution that will help Thaksin - now is that so different than pushing through a Consitutuion that shuts down individual rights and freedoms as was done under the Junta?? Who other than elitists and upper-class crony guanxi-family types would like to see (or benefit) from that?? Can't the Parliament (remember PPP has ONLY a MINORITY govt) reject this if it's a whitewash??? NO BRING ON THE ARMY, Right you nut-cases?

Or did I miss something in your blind rantings prior to cmsally's post??

Thaigene2

Your unpolite & racists language doesn't please me to further talk to you (you sound to me like some of those violent, unpatient, not very well informed, frustrated pro-Thaksin fans, even you don't like him as well)

Please think first before you post

thanks mate

I don't think so, they will never move one inch (no matter what they are doing), until either/or: election loose or coup. All court cases will be purged and/or bought, no?

Question: Once convicted (if), they all seam to get bail anyhow, right? No matter what they did? So any rich man can stay in power (speak out of prison) forever, if he knows how to win the elections (no matter what they start doing one day after election)!??

-----

Anyway here some Breakfast...ups Breaking News:

Thaksin 'unusually rich': AEC

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30074015

The Asset Examination Committee Monday reached a preliminary conclusion that former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra would have to be prosecuted according to the justice system and that his assets of Bt76 billion be seized into state coffers. *

Kaewsan Atibho, the secretary-general of the AEC, disclosed the finding after the AEC's meeting, which agreed to wrap up the corruption case against Thaksin before sending it to the public prosecutors and to the Supreme Court's Political Office Section.

Thaksin has been found by the AEC to be "unusually rich". The AEC has also alleged that Thaksin and his wife Pojaman, while still assuming political power, owned shares in Shin Corp through nominees, who were his three children, Banaphot Damapong, Ample Rich Investment Co and Win Mark Co.

The Nation

Unqoute

* Which they can use to amend the charter! Piece of cake now

Serious: A bit impractical for the new Season with Manchester City! Especially if one is still chasing Scollani, Rolandinho and co.

Actually you are right, they did demand Samak's resignation.

Drop the amendments and PAD will disappear, or at least set up Constitution Drafting Assembly that includes people from all sectors of society (like the junta did.) Instead the new draft that is going to be presented next month is written by god knows who, for the benefit of "you know who".

Samak wants a referendum, his party will probably tell him to forget about it - these guys can't mediate between themselves, and they clearly don't give a rat's ass about PAD or the rest of the country's opinion. Thai civil society has offered great many ideas on how to deal with the rising crisis, PPP won't listen.

If you want to see mediation and constructive participation - the ball is in PPP's court, not PAD.

Plus Society

the little so important details, which most people unfortuntely don't know. The problem is also if you ask the people for a referendum, with a already given amendment, most will never understand what has been actually changed or is different. They country people will again, then just vote for their personality, without knowing the details.

So the PAD (besides others) are doing currently a so badly needed useful "information service" to their people, by explaining the details to them.

PPP just blame the junta for amending the constitution, but don't exactly explain to the people, what they actually were amending, which was basically try use more "check & balances" for all politicians. With "vote buying control" and tougher punishment for wrong-doers. These details I never hear from any anti-coup posters here and/or PPP politicians.

The PPP what to turn the clock back, and be free to do as they like again, so to speak. Vote-buying, abuse of power with no consequences etc.

Who will explain to the (country) people, if PAD will not do? The current Thai Goverment for sure not, as they always hoped for votes, from the majority on the country-side, with mostly only Pro-Goverment news on local TV ...sorry I'm repeating myself....(Democrats still get no air time! Minister Jakrpob Penkair just told recently to Abhisit, he couldn't find any air-time for him?? ). Did you notice how quickly he found air-time for him today, nearly the whole day? I see his speach regarding his own allegations!

..... not fair PPP & Khun Thaksin ...not really fair ! Why are you so afraid of letting the Democrats on air, and again....repeating myself...why don't you let the courts finish their investigations, if you didn't do anything wrong (main part of the amendment will be to stop all allegations checks against various previous TRT=PPP members). Does that sound like democracy to you?

If you understand Thai, watch the LIVE DEMONSTRATION DAY 2 (5'000-10'000 people?) now:

http://www.astv-tv.com

(click Live and the NEWS1? Logo)

http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/toc/ViewData...?DataID=1007122

Assets Panel Calls on Court to Confiscate Thaksin's 77 Billion Baht

UPDATE : 26 May 2008

Today's Assets Examination Committee meeting decides that there is merit to the charge against the ousted premier for cronyism and forwards the case to the Attorney-General for the confiscation of his assets worth 77 billion baht.

The Assets Examination Committee concluded today that there is reason to believe ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra abused his power to benefit his family business and that of his cronies.

The AEC will forward the case to the Attorney-General's Office to be filed with the courts.

It will also ask the court to approve the confiscation of the cash from the sale of Thaksin's family business, Shin Corporation, to Singapore's Temasek Holdings, worth 77 billion baht.

If the Attorney-General's Office disagrees with the AEC and does not file the case, the AEC can go ahead and file it with the court independently.

Unquote

^{_{Vast cracks appear in Arctic ice}}

^{_{By David Shukman}}

^{_{Environment correspondent, BBC News}}

A Canadian expedition found the new cracks

Breaking news: Thai government denies existence of cracks in Arctic runway.

Moves to have journalist dismissed.

Sinking after-news:

Commerce Minister Mingkwam (or better Mingk-nam) want's to declare whole Bangkok "Floating Market" and get global copyright & patent on name

once the city will be within the next view decades under water, with 23-45inches (read above) levels, leaving residence no other chance, then using water-tuk-tuks.

This will boost our floating economy, he stated to "Not-The-Nation" this Monday

Serious: Guys still wanna invest near the coastline, rivers etc. after reading above??

http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/may2008/2008-05-23-01.asp

Global Warming Sticker Shock

WASHINGTON, DC, May 23, 2008 (ENS)

- If global warming continues unchecked, by 2100, New York City will feel like Las Vegas does today and San Francisco will have a climate comparable to that of today's New Orleans. In 2100, Boston will have average temperatures like those in Memphis, Tennessee today. These higher temperatures will be uncomfortable financially as well as physically, according to a report released Thursday by researchers at Tufts University, commissioned by the Natural Resources Defense Council, NRDC.

Over the next 100 years, global warming will increase the average temperature across most of the United States by 13 degrees

Fahrenheit and by 18 degrees in Alaska, the report estimates.

"Some important impacts are priceless, so the real situation is worse than the numbers can convey," said the report's lead author, Frank Ackerman. "But the numbers, for those impacts we can put prices on, are bad enough. Climate change is on a collision course with the U.S. economy, long before the end of the century, unless we act now."

Heat waves will become more commonplace across the United States if no action is taken to limit climate change. (Photo credit unknown)

The Tufts researchers present two ways of estimating the costs of inaction on climate change.

A comprehensive estimate based on state-of-the-art computer modeling finds that doing nothing on global warming will cost the United States economy more than 3.6 percent of Gross Domestic Product, or GDP, by 2100. That amounts to $3.8 trillion annually in today's dollars.

On the other hand, a detailed, bottom-up analysis finds that four categories of global warming impacts - hurricane damage, real estate losses, increased energy costs and water costs - will add up to a price tag of 1.8 percent of GDP by 2100. That's almost $1.9 trillion annually in today's dollars.

Dan Lashof, director of NRDC's Climate Center, said, "The longer we wait, the more painful and expensive the consequences will be. This report's findings are undeniable - we must act now."

"The Climate Security Act currently in the U.S. Senate is our best opportunity to set a concrete limit on global warming pollution and provide an accompanying market that rewards companies for making real reductions," Lashof said.

Also known as the Lieberman-Warner bill for its authors - Connecticut Independent Senator Joe Lieberman and Virginia Republican Senator John Warner - the bill was introduced last October and approved by the Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works in December 2007. It is expected to be debated in the full Senate in early June.

The bill would impose emission limits on electric utility, transportation, and manufacturing industries under a national cap-and-trade system for greenhouse gas emissions.

Polluters would mostly be allocated right-to-emit credits based on how much greenhouse gas they currently emit. The cap would get tighter over time, until by 2050, emissions would be reduced to 63 percent below 2005 levels. Presently, greenhouse gases emitted in the United States are not subject to regulation.

"Many economic models have attempted to capture the costs of climate change for the United States," the report states. "For the most part, however, these analyses grossly underestimate costs by making predictions that are out of step with the scientific consensus on the daunting scope of climatic changes and the urgent need to reduce global warming emissions."

For its model, the report's authors referred to "The Economics of Climate Change," a report commissioned by the British government and released in 2006, also known as the Stern Review after its author, Sir Nicholas Stern.

"We used a revised version of the Stern Review's model to provide a more accurate, comprehensive picture of the cost of global warming to the U.S. economy," Ackerman and his colleagues explain. Global warming is already melting sea ice and glaciers that will contribute to sea level rise. Sea level is expected to rise 23 inches in 2050 and 45 inches by 2100 , with grave impacts expected for the low-lying coastal communities of the southeastern United States.

By 2100, an estimated $360 billion per year will be spent on damaged or destroyed residential coastal real estate in the United States as a result of the rising sea levels, the Tufts report shows.

The effects of climate change will also be felt in the form of more severe heat waves, hurricanes, droughts, and other erratic weather events and in their impact on our economy's bottom line.

"Curbing global warming pollution will require a substantial investment, but the cost of doing nothing will be far greater," the authors conclude. "Immediate action can save lives, avoid trillions of dollars of economic damage, and put us on a path to solving one of the greatest challenges of the 21st century."

To read the full report, "The Cost of Climate Change," click here.

Unquote

Still doubting on "abnormal global climate change & rising sea levels with global consequences, even for us or our kids?" ?

Nice reading above too; some posters really know a lot on this topic, still learning myself

Plus, you save my day.

Finally someone, besides Sri Racha John and others, who get & understand the whole pic. Please keep up explaining to the non-understanding the real facts about the last 5-6 years (of Thaksin Ruling).

The whole problem currently is very easy: We have a inofficial but ruling PM: Thaksin who should not run the country currently. But he is exactly just doing this.

And even worse, once again trying to stop institutions, courts etc. to check allegations of corruption, government & law abuses & human rights allegations,

which they try to clear for him, with this "so urgent needed?" amendment of the constituation! That's the whole purpose of this excercise.

It's difficult in a country like this to change for the good, to many politicians just want one thing: cash, and they don't care or want to really work for the country.

Especially one group currently is seeking the same succcess (financial - but this guy is not happy for sure not matter how much money he will make more) as their

grand meistro.

The Democrats are sadly currently the only major party planning for the future of Thailand and not for their own pockets as the other Partys do.

As Plus said, it was the Democrats, with their "shadow goverment" who proposed solutions for the country in this running term.

Meanwhile PPP is trying to Patent the "Full Moon Party" and trying to get Mega-Projects going, so their commissions are finally rolling in. That's all they can think off.

This is the current situation. Also all allegations against the so called "Royal Elite" etc. I find absurd, as who is helping the country since

various decades, with true honest help?? The King & his family themselves!

Thaksin is the evil, and he and his proxies have to be removed from the political arena, or else Thailand will sink further and further into this political chaos,

which is not caused by the PAD. On the contrary they can't accept the "over mega-ecxagerated corruption" any more these people are doing.

We should support the PAD, and make sure an honest election will take place with free media (correct noted by H90), where also the Democrats should get air-time on local goverment TV's (mostly

the only source in the major voting population up-country). Why are Jakropob and Thaksin denying them air-time?? Because they are freedom fighters for democracy? And

the evil coup-makers in 2006/7 were against democracy? If you know the situation well, you understand the opposite is the sad reality. The military (also watch out when you talk

about the military, as there various fractions within the military) during their junta time, tried to promote free TV, elections without vote buying etc. But once again, Thakin's framework up-country

took THB's to the people doors and begged or supressed them for their support. My girlfriend's family in her up-country home time, had only PPP people knocking on the door (no Dems, no any others) with the village khanman (head of village) standing behind the PPP people on the streets and rising their eye-brows. Can you imagine upcountry, if you not vote for the town-heads recommendations; what then will happen with your future within your own town? Nearly an oppression to vote for the right party, instead of free-will. I agree and understand that some do believe Thaksin should be their PM, and some voted on their free-will, but statistical facts (by universities & democracts) show that they actually also don't get the whole pic, as it's true that the

poor people just got actually and in reality got even poorer during Thaksin's time: Dept's rising etc. and that Thaksini never promoted Democracy (which is needed if you don't want to be dependent on one wrong thinking dear leader), as everytime the elections were over, it was only him who did the decision making and often sueing all others not agreeing with him.

Once again I want to ask: Why do they need to amend the consitution, if Thaksin and other various top government officials, who also are accused of corruption (including Samak our proxy PM).

are so innocent of their crimes? Why don't they go to the courts, and show us their innocence, instead of trying to purge all check's & balances? Just think a little bit and you understand

who is on the side of democracy and the try to free this country from dictatorship.

If you are innocent, you don't need to run away (thaksin: desolving parlament to call snap elections in 2006 + in 2008 doing it again nearly same style of non-response to allegations by various sides) but you would stand still and try to explain yourself.

When will Thaksin ever explain all those allegations with facts, instead with only emotions. He never did, and most propably will never want to do so! Currently they are running again (from the truth), by changing the constitution, instead of explaining the standing allegations! Sand but true fact.