JimGant

Do a tax return with manufactured numbers. First, do a straight forward tax return, including UK remitted assessable income, noting total Thai taxes due. Then, net out from Thai taxes due the UK taxes that Thailand allows as an offsetting credit. Then, with your spreadsheet, find out what manufactured number for UK remitted assessable income, when plugged in, has a tax return with a tax owed that represents the netted tax credit for UK taxes. You may find that "zero" is the magic number, meaning the UK taxes on that remitted income exceeds the Thai taxes on that exact same income. Thus, you just leave the income line for remitted foreign income blank. Or, if Thai income tax exceeds UK income tax on that same amount, some manufactured positive number will be placed on that line to arrive at the correct Thai tax, netted for the UK tax credit. Anyway, you're completely kosher here (except, maybe, for mechanics), as total Thai tax due incorporates the credit for UK taxes -- assuming the Thai instructions allow for a UK tax credit. Thus, you've not short changed Thailand one satang -- and, of course, you'd keep good notes on this procedure, in the unlikely event of an audit. And, of course, this is not a procedure you'd want to do face to face with your local TRD official.... Nope, electronic filing only, unless you can do a manual return yourself, and drop in the mailbox at your local TRD -- or maybe even mail it in, if allowed (don't believe it is.....).

Yep. Certainly in the interest of not disrupting FDI -- one of BoI's price projects -- enuf so that I'm sure they'd object to any over concern of large remittances by TRD..... .... and furthermore, along with your observation, that TRD just isn't equipped/funded to ferret out valid DTA and Por 162 remittances. Self assessment by the remitter will logically remain the name of the game.

The person liable for taxation of assessable income remitted to Thailand is: entirely the owner of that remitted income, assuming he/she is a Thai tax resident. Where that remittance goes is entirely irrelevant (tho' the jury is still out as to whether or not gifts are one exception). Which brings up an interesting scenario...... Remit your assessable income to a joint account, then claim your half is for living expenses (thus, of course, taxable); but the other half is a gift to your GF, the other joint owner -- so her half is not subject to income tax (but, if exceeding 10m baht, would be subject to a gift tax). Now, wouldn't that be an interesting discussion with a clueless TRD official....

Thailand's not completely stupid -- they're not going to torpedo the golden goose that's foreign direct investment by quizzing all large expat remitters. So, if a large chunk of money is wired to Thailand, and the amount was large enough to trigger TRD's concern -- I imagine their next question to the bank would be: did it just sit there, or was it forwarded to, say, a construction company. In my case, as I am sending millions to Thailand these days -- 'cause I can't make my Thai nieces and nephews PODs of my US financial accounts (no SSN) and I have no US Will to cover this event -- it might raise a red flag, as this money isn't transferred to a construction company. So what? Call me in for a chat, and I'll show you my LTR visa, or that the money comes from a savings account whose balance on Dec 31 2023 was well in excess of what I've wired (Por 162).

If I were a Brit, I'd certainly bank Carden's interpretation, and thus NOT consider my remitted OAP as assessable income. There's tons of wiggle room with this, as the UK-Thai DTA never addresses OAPs -- and there's not even an "other income" Article in the DTA addressing income not specific to other Articles. Thus OAP is an orphan, ripe for interpretation to your advantage. So, if you have to file a Thai tax return ('cause you have assessable income that exceeds allowances, and thus you owe taxes on it) -- do so; but don't include your OAP. And, of course, if no tax return need to be filed, 'cause OAP's non inclusion puts you below the taxable threshold -- don't file. Don't get a TIN, if you haven't already. And thus stay off the TRD radar screen. Nothing's going to happen. Less than a 1% chance, I would guess, of being called in for a chat at TRD -- unless you remit a huge amount of money to Thailand and thus raise a red flag. And if called in -- take your thumb drive with Carden's and his licensed Thai tax associate's advice on OAP assessability. Hey, always give yourself the advantage in a gray area, particularly if you have a thumb drive backing up your decision. Why some folks, like ExpatThaiTax say, yes, OAPs are assessable -- is beyond me. It really is a gray area, when the DTA is so silent about it. And, if TRD had put something out there to clarify, in Thailand's favor -- I would think Carden would have included this assessment. Or maybe not -- he's the dude that advertised to US expats that, retire in Thailand, and never have to pay taxes on your Traditional IRA again. Snake oil, anyone?

Por 555 says: No can find local tax office, no have to pay tax.

Is that Thomas Carden? If so, stand by for a deluge on his lack of bonafides.

US Social Security is only taxable by the US - in all situations. A govt pension, however, can be taxable by Thailand -- if the recipient is both a resident and a citizen (solely) of Thailand. So your Thai wife, who lives in Thailand, is never taxable by Thailand on her survivor Social Security (or her own Social Security). However, if she's getting a survivor benefit from your govt pension -- and is a tax resident of Thailand -- she would be subject to Thai taxes on this survivor govt pension UNLESS she's a dual US-Thai citizen.

Maybe because this is a thread about Wise transfers -- and you jumped in with the SWIFT 8 digit system, or whatever. I thought this might be a nice time to point out that Wise, if you use, for example, USD vs Thai baht as your sending currency -- Wise will send it SWIFT. It's actually a good point worth noting, as you can inadvertently push the wrong send button, if you've set up a USD route to Thailand with Wise. I assumed, since this was a Wise thread, and you began talking about SWIFT transfers -- that you had inadvertently sent through Wise, a SWIFT wire transfer. Not sure why you mentioned SWIFT in a Wise thread? But, don't really care.

Where on earth did you get that from?

Why are you using Wise to transfer via SWIFT? Yes, you can easily do this, as I found out by accident -- because I mistakenly set up my recipient account in Thailand to receive dollars (not baht). But, I also subsequently set up the same account to receive baht, which is the account I normally choose. Somehow, I chose the "USD" account to send $40k to my Bangkok Bank -- and watched as the $40k became $39,xxxk, after fees subtracted. Then, on the receiving end, I got the TT rate for the day, less the 500 baht receipt fee (just like in the old days, when I did SWIFT transfers). The fact that a Wise P2P might have been near instantaneous, with the guaranteed FX rate -- vs two days later, with a slower SWIFT, and maybe a higher FX rate (but with fixed Wise fees) -- would make for an interesting "best method" comparison...... Yes, I remember from years ago the comparison of Wise vs SWIFT costs, and that amounts greater than $20k, because of the fixed vs percentage fee differences -- gave the nod to SWIFT transfers. But, this is a false comparison, since the two-day plus SWIFT transfer time is hostage to whatever the TT rate is upon arrival. Anyway, I've erased my USD receipt account from WISE, as I like knowing all the costs up front -- and I actually didn't realize the significance of having a receipt account denominated in dollars, or even why I set it up in the first place.... So, just a heads up: If your receipt account in Thailand isn't denominated in baht -- your transfers will be via SWIFT.

In fact, it does say she is tax free, per the technical DTA: Interesting to note, if wife were also getting a US govt pension, Thailand would, yes, have primary taxation rights, if she were a resident of Thailand, and also a citizen. BUT, if she were a dual US-Thai citizen, her US citizenship would trump her Thai citizenship, so no Thai taxation [who is not also a citizen of the paying State.] Nice to see that some TRD offices are actually referring to the applicable DTA; not so nice that it's the incorrect DTA and/or they're unable to correctly interpret it. I think there's enough evidence in all these tax threads to say: Farang retirees are smart enough about their applicable DTA, and about Por 162 pre-2024 exemptions -- that their self-assessment would be superior to that of their local TRD, in most (all?) cases. So, if your self-assessment shows no taxes owed, why even file a tax return, particularly in person at your local TRD? You'll just end up in an argument with an idiot. So, don't file if taxes aren't owed -- even if your assessable income does exceed those arbitrary 60/120/220k thresholds (which are not enforceable, says Ben Hartman at Integrity Legal -- nor knowable by TRD, in the absence of any Thai equivalent 1099s). Also, probably best to reassess whether or not getting back your 15% withholding on bank interest taxation is worth the potential hassle....

Yes, if you only reside in a rental during your visits to Thailand, to include living in your Thai wife's home. And this would even be if you spent 265 days in Thailand, but only 100 days in the US. And this is peculiar only to Yanks, as we're tax residents of the US REGARDLESS of where we live, and for how long. Thus, we are tax residents of both Thailand (if here over 180 days) AND of the US. Contrast this to the majority of the world's countries, who don't define you as a tax resident if you live outside the country for over half a year. Thus, live in Thailand for over 180 days, no tie breaker for tax purposes needed -- you're a tax resident of Thailand, period, as far as the applicable DTA is concerned. [Most DTAs read like the US-Thai DTA, as they're cookie cutter images on the OECD and UN Model tax treaties.] But, yeah, as a Yank concerned about remitting cap gains to Thailand, or Roth IRA receipts -- there is some wiggle room here in defining country of primary taxation residence. Can't use the permanent home residence card, since you own a home in the US, but also a condo in Thailand? Well, what about vital interests? Are your mom and dad, and kids from first marriage, in the US -- sounds like your vital interests lie in the US. But, have a Thai wife? This could get complicated. But, there appears to be enough slop room to be able to favorably self-assess as to your tax residence -- and thus not file a Thai tax return; always opt for the situation that favors you, in any gray area situation, as long as you've got a reasonable argument in its favor. Thus, not flling a Thai tax return keeps you off their radar -- so no chance of an audit, unless you remit a huge amount of money that triggers the "check this guy out" alarm. And that amount is probably well above what any of us reading this is. Anyway, Miloki, thanx for bringing this subject up. I'm sure some Yanks will now do some re-evaluation.

Any chance you suppressed the giggles when you produced that? You made my day. Any humor in the signature -- I can't quite read it?

French?