JimGant

Yeah, sometimes it's really difficult to wade through your musings.

Yeah, that's pretty scary --NOT -- if you have good records showing no taxable income.

Public spirited, indeed. Those null tax returns were filed to get refunds -- many/most were fraudulent. A far cry from filing because the law says you must, with an income of 60k. Do your homework:

You're right. What we've heard is that the fine for failure to file, when no taxes owed, is 2000 baht. We've never seen an example of that -- not that it's not occurred. But, you're right -- I'll tell my gardener and maid they best take a day off and try and get a TIN. Then, in Jan -- since they can't read or write -- go hire a tax agent to file a null tax return -- maybe they can get a deal for 5000 baht. Or, maybe I'll say -- just forget any stupid advice you might hear from a forum. Sit back, do nothing -- and take a 1% chance, or less, of paying a 2000 baht fine for not filing a null tax return (how in the world would authorities determine that need to file?). Vs paying 5000 baht for an agent to file a return. Anyway, I seem to keep inventing new definitions for common sense.

I know what the Code says in relation to 60/120/220 thresholds for filing. I'm saying, forget the 60/120/220 thresholds, and only file when you have taxable income. As such, there's no tax evasion involved -- so you are in no risk of a fine on non existent tax owed. Just forget the 60/120/220 rule -- at no reportable risk to yourself. And, for most reading this, with below TEDA assessable income -- no need to try and get a TIN from a TRD, that throws you out for trying to get one -- with no taxable income. Sigh.

If the Code is so nonsensical, as in the "must file if assessable income is 60k, and thus must get a TIN" -- and then it appears TRD pays no attention to enforcing it -- I think this is a prima facie case for "common sense."

Like, I need a TIN, 'cause I have assessable income of 60K -- and the TRD Code says I need to file a tax return. And the agent says, "That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard of; nobody's ever come in here saying they have to file a tax return, even tho', after factoring in TEDA, they'd need another 500k of assessable income -- to finally have any taxable income." Such people we throw out on their ear -- as we take positive steps against stupid rules. Where do all these stupid farangs asking for TINs get their info? Aseannow? What's that -- a crack pot service? The locals never beg for TINs they don't need. Crazy farangs.

Right. So don't post any more "hand on heart" input on this subject. The smart readers already have enough info from which to decide on whether or not getting a TIN is required.

Actually, it sounds like complete B*** S***. Until you actually have taxable income, and until then don't need a TIN, sit down and shut up. But, yes, I assume, if you tell -- and maybe show -- TRD that you have a taxable income situation -- they'll gladly issue a TIN. Otherwise, yes, then a situation for escalation.

Of course that's what he's saying. He'll quote the 60/120/220 threshold mantra -- only to watch their eyes glaze over. Then, when they call the funny farm police, and drag him out, he'll be foaming at the mouth.

How about common sense?

No, go back and read all the lead-up to where an assessment officer enters the picture. It's where a return is "suspect" because of math errors, or some other out-of-sync number inclusions. The routinely filed "self-assessed" return will -- unless it raises a flag of some sort -- just be accepted, with the payment banked, or the over withheld taxes refunded. I would assume they have some kind of software algorithm to do a cursory screening of tax returns for blatant errors. But it's nonsensical, from a cost standpoint, to have assessment officers hold everyone's hand, and go over their tax returns -- at least initially. But, if problems discovered down the road, then, yeah, time to come to TRD for an audit.

This circular discussion was once again brought up by you, a few posts ago, the one I responded to -- you know, the "Hand on heart I don't understand why folks are so averse to obtaining a Thai TIN." We've been over and over the pros and cons of this, to the point that it's getting ridiculous. The reader can digest your views and my views -- and then decide for himself. Give it a rest, and allow the clear thinkers to drive over the speed limit, if they assess the advantage far exceeds any potential penalty. So, shut up about getting a TIN if assessable income exceeds 60k baht -- and I'll shut up about my workers rightfully ignoring their requirement to file a tax return.

What tax liability? I have none, because my assessable income is exceeded by TEDA, and the 150k freebie. Thus, no tax liability. And, I would imagine, TRD is not interested in audits for anyone without a TIN, especially for a random compliance audit-- i.e., a TIN puts you on their radar screen. No thanks. I just wonder where KBank got their instructions, on their page one of request for info, that "No Thai TIN needed if no taxable income." Maybe they, and all those TRDs sending away posters here asking for TINs, with no taxable income -- have access to adult sources of govt...... If the bank will accept that TIN to stop withholding -- not a given. But for Yanks, not having one means you can insert your Thai taxes on interest on a single line of your 1040 -- and reduce one for one your US taxes. No need, nor effort, for a Thai TIN, nor efforts to recover those lost Thai taxes, should you have to file to recover. Just one entry on your US 1040. No brainer. Anyway, the real red flag here are those 60/120/220k thresholds that say you must file a return -- and thus get a TIN -- if assessable income exceeds one of these thresholds. Very unrealistic -- and thus not (knowlingly) enforced. Case in point: All my household help, if they complied with the law, would have to get a TIN and file a return. Not likely, considering they don't have the time nor the ability to do such. I'm sure this applies to most all the self employed in Thailand -- you really think all those rice farmers, maids, gardeners, street vendors, etc -- are going to file if they pass a threshold? Of course not. Thus these thresholds are essentially meaningless -- and certainly would not be enforced by an even half-rational TRD. So, save yourself wasted time by being denied a TIN at your local TRD -- and wasted shoe leather. Or even the advertised 7000-12000 baht fee by agents to get you a TIN, should a TRD denial , because you have no taxable income, force you down this path. Bottom line: For sure, if you have Thai taxable income, and thus owe Thai taxes -- get a TIN and file a tax return. Otherwise, ignore agent advertisement that push you to get an unnecessary TIN -- for a high fee. And ignore do-gooders on this forum, whose reason for pushing getting a TIN -- is beyond me. These are the same folks who claim, "I'm not giving advice." But I certainly am -- when I suggest tidbits to help the reader decide for himself.

Not certain of the context for this statement, but the KBank request for info only requires a Thai TIN -- if you have "Thai taxable income," meaning if income subject to Thai taxation (i.e., assessable income) exceeds deductions, exemptions, and the 150k freebie. If not, you leave that request -- on page one of KBank request -- blank. Then explain why you left it blank on page two. If a US citizen, you're asked to provide Form W9 -- which will provide your US SSN, which equates to a TIN.