JimGant

And your proof of these things is where? In human nature. Only an idiot would file a tax return, when he didn't have to. Any other reason, particularly when no taxes were owed, would, I guess, be maybe because of an obscure, nonsensical requirement to file if having greater than 60/120/220, whatever, assessable income. Easily ignored -- with no reportable consequences -- due, I guess, to TRD common sense. Common sense, too, with your actions.

Has merit -- why? Why put yourself in TRD files as a tax filer -- when no taxes are owed? Probably (I hope) such a filing would go in the trash bin, as generating no interest, and no revenue. But, worst case -- you're now in the data base, and as such, they'll now expect an annual tax filing (even it it's another brain-dead nil filing) -- and if they don't get one, they'll investigate. No, only an idiot would file a nil tax return -- and put themselves on the radar screen for future tax filings.

If you have a smidgin of remitted assessable income well below being taxable -- after TEDA -- why subject yourself to filing, and for subjecting yourself to getting a TIN? Just stay off the radar. And, remember -- only if Thailand has secondary taxation rights per DTA, like on rental incomes, will a Thai tax return have to absorb a tax credit. But if the DTA says Thailand has exclusionary/primary taxation rights -- then the whole enchilada is taxable, and keepable, by Thailand (and no need for a tax credit line for foreign taxes). But, so what? If that kind of remitted income is well short of being taxable in whole by Thailand, after TEDA -- in my "smidgin" example -- again, save yourself the hassle of getting a TIN, and filing a tax return. Yeah, we hear about having to file if your "smidgin" assessable income exceeds 60/120/220/whatever. And if you don't -- a 2000 baht fine. Never happened, and never will. But if it did, well worth the cost for not wasting time with TINs, filings -- and putting yourself on TRd's radar screen.

Indeed. And for Canadians, per DTA, govt AND private pensions are both non assessable income for Thai tax purposes. So, remittances of such are just invisible for Thai tax filing requirement purposes -- and more importantly, for Thai tax payment obligation.

Right. Saw my error, and edited my response. Sorry.

Huh? My DTA gives the US exclusive taxation rights on my Air Force pension, and social securityl. You know that, of course -- so what am I missing here? Woops, you were addressing a particular poster's situation. Sorry.

Yeah, completely slams the Thaiexaminer for publishing hearsay. Especially the part about "all tax residents required to file a tax return." Now, maybe they heard a rumor about new tax return forms having line items to provide ALL remitted income, regardless of its assessability. In that case, maybe, then, all tax residents could be on tap to file a tax return, as TRD has become interested in the income not being declared per DTA. Anyway, video was correct to slam the Thaiexaminer as being way too far ahead of this potential bow wave. And, logically and fiscally -- TRD doesn't have the resources, nor the need, to screen tax returns from all tax resident. Geez.

Further substantiated from this 12-year old BP article: Not an exact fit, but good enuf IMO to use for an account with comingled pre 2024 and 2024 onward funds. Thus, FIFO would allow that exemption for pre 2024 income to be what you self assess as to what you remitted.

It could as a tie breaker. Here's a long-winded excerpt from the tech explanation of the US-Thai DTA. Most other DTAs, since most rely on Model OECD tax treaty language, say the same:

And if you're a Yank, not having a Thai TIN means you can make a one line tax credit entry on your US tax return -- to get back the Thai tax withheld.

You can't be serious..... Why would anyone want to be a moderator? Are you somehow implying that I applied for moderator -- and was turned down? Ludicrous.

It's too painful to watch her, with that high-pitched voice and that intolerable "I've-got-gas" grin. If she's said anything worthwhile, I'll read about it in the papers.

Why would anyone care about what you care about.......

Indeed. And Lister certainly was not qualified. Fortunately, he's gone -- but where? Sadly, his echo continues here.

But if you're smart enough to avoid folks who can't think outside the envelope -- you'll probably come to a better solution for a convoluted situation. And what could possibly be the 'happens to you later?' A fine on taxes not owed? Fish sauce on your hotdog? Nevermind.

Is that a pension for services provided to a UK govt organization, including the military? If so, if that's the income remitted to Thailand -- this income is not subject to Thai taxation (per DTA), so no need to file a Thai tax return. [But, if a private pension and remitted, yes, subject to Thai taxes, per the DTA.] Did the agent you used to get a Thai TIN ask you why you needed it? Did you mention private or govt pension? Probably not. They just had their hand out. Anyway, common sense says, if you don't need to file a Thai tax return, 'cause you owe no Thai taxes -- no realistic need for a TIN. Yes, specific language says maybe you should get one. But, if you don't -- and no taxes owed -- what's the penalty for avoiding the hassle of arguing with a TRD clerk, who's also relying on common sense. Not to belabor the point here, but to reference a thread, below, that thoroughly discusses TIN requirements. Pay particular attention to 'Troubleandgrumpy", whose arguments are sound and well-presented. Contrast this to Mike Lister's 'black and white' arguments, giving no room for an intelligent interpretation. Lister disappears during the thread -- but his 'black and white' arguments are assumed by poster Chiang Mai. https://aseannow.com/topic/1327316-tax-id-number/

Of course. But the "being a tax resident" aspect is not stated in their "get a TIN after 60 days." The below is a little clearer -- but how you incorporate the "60 day" rule is not: Anyway, if, like me, you'll never have any income -- remitted or worldwide -- that would be subject to Thai taxes -- forget getting a TIN. What could possibly happen? Besides, don't want my name in a TRD data base.

Well, duh, I'm a tourist here for 170 days, remitting tons of assessable income during those 170 days. What now, dude?

Does that include tourists, here for only 175 days, but sending tons of assessable income to Thailand during that period? Rhetorical question, I hope. Rules that are not well thought out, and that have no loss of any tax receipts, and are realistically unenforceable -- seem to be ignored by Thai bureaucrats -- and could seemingly be safely ignored also by expats.

Maybe I missed it -- but did we get anything definitive about the Royal Decree's actual effect, namely: -- LTR visa holders, at least WPs, have all remittances exempt from tax, including current (2024) remittances of assessable income..... (?) -- Or, the Royal Decree effectively just grandfathers us under the old rules, namely, 2024 remittances of assessable income ARE taxable -- only if you wait until 2025, or later, will they be exempt. (?)

How will they know? Still don't know what they'll want at year five, when you have to reconfirm your bonafides; but it would seem it would be same/similar to what you provided at initial application, namely, just current year's data. Thus, you'll probably just have to show year five data. So, if you didn't meet the requirements for years four, three, and two -- only you will know. Now, if you flunk the test for year five, they might insist on a look back to the previous years. Anyway, just an observation, as, unless the US goes out of business -- or BoI no longer accepts Tricare -- not much to worry about for me.

Here's what I submitted -- successfully:

This DTA language is derived from the OECD and UN Model tax treaties. "May be taxed" vs "may only be taxed" is simply: "May ONLY be taxed" gives exclusive taxation rights to the contracting country indicated -- and the other contracting country can't tax it. But "may be taxed" gives the contracting country "A" primary taxation rights -- but also gives contracting state "B" secondary taxation rights (context determines which is which). What this means for you, the taxpayer, is that country A gets to keep all the tax receipts, same as if it had had exclusive taxation rights. But country B, per treaty, also has taxation rights -- but as secondary, has to absorb a tax credit for the taxes paid to country A. So, after the credit is absorbed, there may be no or negative taxes owed to country B (in which case, I wouldn't even bother to file a tax return, at least for this income, with country B). What's the practical outcome of this? Well, after filing with country A, and paying the taxes due, you then look at filing with country B. If, after absorbing the tax credit from country A, you then owe no taxes to country B -- that's all. BUT, if after absorbing the tax credit you still owe a tax to country B -- then you owe the difference between your tax bill and the tax credit; and that delta, added to your full tax bill paid to country A, means that when the DTA gives secondary taxation rights -- your total tax bill may now be higher, 'cause you're now paying taxes on same income to two countries. [Note for Yanks: Because of the so-called "saving clause" the US, if not an exclusive or primary taxation authority -- will always be a least a secondary taxation authority. Thus, gotch by the short and curlies. ]

This is a 'feel good' news story about moving from the US to Chiang Mai. Probably similar for most of us reading this, especially Yanks, who, for most of us, will have no new tax hit with the recent Thai proposals. And who get by just fine in the smoky season. https://www.businessinsider.com/retired-florida-cop-moved-to-chiang-mai-thailand-cheaper-safer-2024-10

Right, using the bank's money, not yours. Just like buying a condo, with the bank's money, not yours. What's the difference? Nevermind. We seem to be on a treadmill with this subject. You go ahead and declare your Visa purchases to TRD, while I won't. Then we'll both be happy in our skin.