JimGant

Don't quite follow...... If you reject the exclusions, LMG rejects your application in total. Thus, you get a rejection letter from LMG to show to Imm, to thus enable you to self insure. Right?

I thought we could go to our local Imm office to activate....? If LTR requires a trip to Bangkok, no thanks. Two hours to renew my current retirement extension at Chiang Mai Imm beats a roundtrip, with possible night overstay, to Bangkok -- not to mention peeing in a cup while in gridlock traffic.

I recall your post from another thread, and I believe the police order's mention of "partial denial" of insurance policy doesn't really apply to pre-existing conditions. Not sure what it applies to, but most (all?) insurance companies will write policies, excluding pre-existing conditions. But, with such a policy to wave at Immigration, you will have met their requirement for a TGIA policy needed to extend off of an OA visa. They're certainly not going to say, "You must show $100,000 self insurance in the bank to cover your pre-existing diabetes." Thus, the "partial denial," whatever the Thai translation, is just a confusion factor. Christ, my LMG policy has a pre-existing condition of terminal pancreatic cancer. Heck, just another exclusion line item in my policy (joke).

LMG appears to be the cheapest. The insurance is virtually worthless, if you go with the 1M baht deductible, which is per procedure, as I read it. But, it does satisfy the OA extension health requirement, which is all I want, as I have home country health insurance that gives me full coverage. Here's the latest link, with an interesting update: You can get a policy up to and including age 80 (renewable until age 100). The cutoff age used to be age 75. https://www.lmginsurance.co.th/en/long-stay-visa-plus-premium-plan-100000-usd And looking at the at the premium tables, which are the same as their older representation, I can renew through age 80 at 36,700 baht. The older table had my renewable premiums, after age 75, at 68,500 baht. Thus, a little less ridiculous price for a worthless policy. I believe LMG is the only one holding out a "3.5M baht" policy, when the police order only calls for a 3.0M baht policy. Why? Maybe they were hedging against an appreciating dollar, as the police order seems pretty emphatic about a $100,000 USD face value. Anyway, they under estimated.... But, I'm sure Thai health policies written in baht are the only sensible way to go. So a 3M policy, or a 3.5M LMG policy, should be entirely acceptable by Immigration. Lim, yes you'll need to cover the 3M requirement when you extend in November -- unless another police order comes out before then (doubtful). LMG requires no physical and will write a policy with as many preexisting conditions as you feel like declaring. It really is a joke, but it checks the OA health square.

Yeah, I look at the 800k as a sunk cost -- and one from the liquid, mattress end of my US retirement portfolio (i.e., only earning .08% in a savings account). So, opportunity cost is zip. But, as a non traveler, the Elite Visa would still require an annual visit to Immigration for a new extension stamp. So, don't really see the utility. Plus, why give a million baht to the Thai gov't, when a million baht left to some really nice Thai nieces and nephews would certainly ease their journey into old age. No. Going the Elite Visa route doesn't add up in my situation -- and is pretty selfish in the estate planning realm. (But, for frequent travelers, it might make sense -- as long as your wheelchair fits into the jetway...)

Yeah, great question. The LTR website certainly seems to say it's a "five year permission of stay."Great! If that means, for this non traveler, that I only have to go to Imm once every five years -- sold! But as earlier discussion, above, has shown -- confusion remains between what constitutes a visa -- and what constitutes a permission (subsequently an extension) of stay. BoI may be conveniently obfuscating this confusion, in the interest of sales. BoI also handles SMART visas, and here's what's said in relation to their permissions of stay: If so, why couldn't LTR visas warrant a five year permission of stay stamp? But, spend a lot more money on an Elite Visa, and here's what you get: So, if you don't travel during the year, plan to visit Immigration to renew your one year extension of stay. Doesn't quite add up in the realm of reducing visits to Immigration for non travelers..... (but, appears these types of visas were not set up for us fully-retired geriatrics). Anyway, one more question to sort out, just like -- is a visit to Bangkok anywhere in the application/renewal requirements? Hmmm.

Negative. That visa, like all visas, allows you to apply for entry into Thailand. Immigration has the discretion to, in the OA case, stamp you in for one year. Or to not stamp you in and send you back whence you came. Or stamp you in equivalent to valid period of required health insurance. The visa is certainly NOT the permission for a length of stay. In the US, that separate stay document is an "Admitted" stamp, designating your visa type and for how long you can stay. Or, in lieu of a stamp, many countries are now issuing "permission of stay" documents to be carried in your passport. In either case, you get that permission (or not) when you apply at an Immigration gateway with a valid visa (unless allowed a visa waiver option -- which still requires a permission stamp).

But, you can self-insure, with $100,000 in either a Thai bank, or a home country bank. So, this option is available to me. They've finally allowed a self insurance option for OA retirement extensions; but the 3 million baht must be in a Thai bank. Thus, LTR would better meet the insurance requirement for me -- until they finally figure out how to accept my Tricare insurance.

Makes sense for "Wealthy Global Citizens," where you need to show two years' proof of income. So last year's tax return, like a 1040 for Yanks, would show income and related taxes. Then, for this year, you'd need statements, like what the Air Force and Social Security send me in December, i.e., new pay rates for the upcoming year. But "Wealthy Pensioners" don't need two years' worth of income proof, so not sure where they're coming from with this..... Oh, well -- my current retirement extension has 11 months to run, so I can sit back and watch the chips fall. And the only reason the LTR looks attractive to this non traveler is 'cause it provides a release from the OA health insurance requirement (and maybe in 11 months my Tricare will finally be accepted).

There's another BoI site that addresses LTR application. Click on this: https://visa.boi.go.th/ Click on "Documents Required for Wealthy Pensioners" then note item 10 under "Evidence of Income:" Hmmm. Doesn't exactly match the income evidence found at this site: https://ltr.boi.go.th/ Anyway, believe the latter site is the main man. The site with income tax evidence appears to be a lash up of LTR added to an older SMART visa site... ... but it doesn't exactly inspire confidence that everyone's on the same page at BoI (also note the requirement for a photo -- didn't someone on this thread get asked to provide a photo (?) -- so maybe it is a requirement...

The quote about a visa being a permission of stay is from TerraplaneGuy

Woops, my mistake. Sorry.

My point exactly. But, not sure where you're coming from with this:

Yes, great for frequent fliers. For us old folks, who never travel, explain how I update the requirement for a one year permission of stay stamp....without having to go to Imm?

I'm sure they'll screw that one up too. Finally, online 90 day reports are a snap. If they go back and rewrite the software to accommodate one-year reporting, that'll certainly crash the system. So, instead of a 30 second 90 day online reporting requirement -- I'll probably be back to driving to Imm to do a one year report, which will probably confuse the clerk. Sigh.

A visa is not a permission of stay. It's just documentation that allows you to enter Thailand and be considered by Immigration for a period of stay -- 60 days, 90 days, 365 days (one year), as long as that visa is valid. For a LTR visa, that means you have a five year period to enter Thailand as many times as you'd like, receiving a one-year permission of stay stamp each time. For frequent travelers, this is ideal -- never ever having to visit Imm as long as you leave Thailand before that one year stamp expires. Otherwise, yep, you have to visit Imm to get an "extension of stay" off of that expiring "permission of stay" -- just like you would off of an expiring "permission of stay" stamp from an OA visa. Difference here: OA visa gives you only a one year time frame to exit and reenter Thailand for another one-year stay -- while the LTR visa gives you five years (with a renewable five year option). So, not as tidy as one might think -- I've got to go to Imm once a year now to renew my "permission of stay" (with an "extension of stay") off of my OA visa -- euphemistically a so-called "visa extension." But if my desire is to never see Imm again, an LTR visa (and Elite Visa) leave me in the same situation I'm in now, namely, must visit Imm once a year. So, what's the advantage, particularly after all the additional cost...?

Indeed. And it sounds like all must go to Bangkok (One Stop Service?) to get your LTR sticker visa. Then, you need your "permission of stay" stamp, which only comes from Immigration. And, "permission of stay" stamps only come in one flavor -- for ONE year (not five, meaning, a visit to Imm every year to get your new ONE year permission of stay stamp). What facility, then, would a LTR visa afford me, over my current "must visit Imm every year" for a one year stamp? Anyway, read the threads on folks getting the Elite Visas, and how they have to leave and reenter Thailand to cancel their current stays, and get a new Elite related permission of stay. Thus, right now, there's a lot of loose ends to sort out for LTR visas, and I would surmise this will take awhile -- and, like with other matters involving Imm, each Imm headquarters will have its own interpretation on how to deal with LTR visas. As I said in a previous post -- be prepared to get a loud "DUH" at your local, non major, Imm office. Best sit back, relax, until this all sorts out -- if it ever does.... as Thai gov't operations are individual fiefdoms, with no one entity in charge. Welcome to the Orient.

You can do a domestic wire to Bangkok Bank NY, which will then send the money to your Bangkok Bank account in Thailand. Mechanically, the same as the old days when ACH worked. Charges are the same, except you may have a wire fee from your originating bank.

This is what you get from Wise when you go to send money:

Well, Imm does issue Non Imm O visas, to folks entering on Tourist visas, or visa exempt, wanting eventual retirement extensions. But instead of having your one-time Non Imm O visa instantly "used," followed by a 90 day permission of stay -- a five year LTR visa stamp is stamped (affixed), followed by a one-year permission of stay stamp. Thus, you're now free to travel, receiving a new one-year permission of stay stamp upon each re-entry -- akin to receiving a one-year permission of stay stamp upon reentry with a still valid OA visa. Great for frequent travelers -- just travel often, return with a one-year permission of stay, and as long as you keep doing this, never ever have to visit Imm for a day's ordeal of paperwork. But, for us old, no longer traveling folks, I can only see I'll still have to visit Imm once a year to get a new one-year permission of stay. Even Elite Visa holders need to do this, if no longer actively traveling. But this is something I had hoped to avoid -- ever again having to visit Imm. I guess if they had a program, to come to my house once a year and pick up my passport, to deliver to Imm without my needing to accompany -- that would be nice. But, it sounds like this is not the case. So, even if they held my hand at Imm (which I could pay a legitimate agent to do for peanuts), it doesn't sound worth it -- if I have to go to Imm once a year anyway. (Well, yeah, if LTR allows me to void the in-country health insurance requirement -- I might do it, with the savings I'd get with no premiums for in-country insurance.)

You bet. The US Embassy is not going to certify my Tricare coverage, particularly since I can't provide them a Tricare policy (they don't issue them..) that verifies I'm covered by Tricare For Life, to include the necessary payment of Medicare premiums necessary for such coverage. So be it. Maybe a little hope on the horizon..... The new LTR visa program allows -- if you don't have health insurance from Thailand or elsewhere -- to self-insure by showing $100,000 in a bank account, for at least 12 months, in either a Thai or foreign bank. Wow. My savings account, loaded with cashed in CDs, would answer that requirement.... ... oh, never mind. That was an option developed by the BoI for their LTR plan. Little hope Imm or the Health Authorities would choose to piggyback on this requirement -- or, let alone, even know another agency even offered such a requirement...... Sigh.

Where'd you get that information from? But, it wouldn't surprise me that only major Imm offices (or just one) would warrant being brought up to speed by BoI.

I asked BoI, via email to their published address, the following question (which is probably answered earlier in this thread, but I missed it): They replied within 20 minutes (how refreshing!):

Or pensions or other deferred income payouts from previous working. For Yanks, if these payouts are government pensions, the tax treaty has Thailand completely hands off from taxation, regardless of what year they're sent to Thailand. Conversely, private pensions, to include 401ks and IRAs, if sent to Thailand in year paid out -- then, per treaty, Thailand has "first dibs" in their taxation -- and while you'd also have to declare these payouts in your US tax return, due to the "saving clause" found in the tax treaty -- you'd get a tax credit for these Thai taxes, in avoidance of double taxation. Surprisingly, maybe because it cost too much to enforce, Thailand doesn't take advantage of their "first dibs" tax rights under the US-Thai tax treaty (and most other tax treaties with Thailand).

I guess you didn't read my previous input....? Right now, stuck with OA extensions, that cost 70k baht a year in health insurance premiums, 'cause Imm can't figure out how to honor my Tricare insurance that would do away with the need for TGIA health insurance. Thus, ten years of premiums down the road is slightly more than chump change (700k baht). And, yeah, I could do a border hop and switch to an extension based on a Non Imm O visa. But, I'm sure, as soon as I did that, TGIA medical insurance would incorporate retirees on O extensions. Why take the chance, if I don't have to? No, since I can finance all the requirements, save 700k baht in health premiums, reduce trips to Imm from 10 to 2 -- that in itself makes it worthwhile. The rest doesn't add any benefit -- 90 day extensions take 20 seconds online these days; I don't travel, so free reentry permits don't resonate, as don't hand holding at airport Immigration; and I don't need to repatriate 800k to the US, since I'm planning to add more over here, re estate planning for my Thai relatives. So, one size doesn't fit all. And, right now, LTR looks pretty good to me. Fortunately, I just renewed my OA extension, so I've got time to see how this sorts out for others. BoI seems squared away, so that part of the equation doesn't worry me. It's when I arrive at Imm, with my BoI paperwork, and get greeted with a resounding "Duh" -- is what I worry about. Hopefully Imm will get sufficient marching orders to integrate this new visa into their operating orders. But, if past is prologue.....heads up.