paddypower

20 hours ago, Sigma6 said:

 

Because your question makes no sense - what has Revolut got to do with sending money from your thai bank? Revolut is the Receiving bank - they will accept whatever you can send. 

 

If the bank of thailand has some rule that you cannot send thb out, then obviously your Thai bank must convert to another currency, but thats not a requirement of Revolut.

 

that makes a lot of sense. thanks. Ive been transferring money in, for years - never out. so all I have to do now is to go to my bank branch, ask them abut converting TB to the other foreign currencies I need (Euros sand Can$) and then send that currency to my contacts' banks.  the only way is by SWIFT ( or other options).

Update - i have checked and there is a 90% chance that your suggestion will be accepted (if I bring an Thai friend with a bit of influence). again, many thanks!

9 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

You did not answer his question either. If you're transfering from your Thai bank to another bank, what does Revolut have to do with it? 

Presumably then, the correct answer would be ''you cannot transfer to a foreign bank (e.g. Europe) using Wise or Revolut''. I may not be the brightest - but Ive lived long enough to know about the option of using Swift.  Sometimes it helps if one thinks about why someone is asking a question, before answering.

12 hours ago, Lokum said:

Hmm, wonder if we transfer directly to the sellers… maybe should consult an accountant.

 

unfortunately as it appears this being as clear as mud, we might be unable to get an answer…

I have used a tax accountant in Phuket town for years. Her company does audits as well (I have a land holding company). she did an excellent job on a situation different from yours. (sale of a former home/rental house & land). PM me if interested and I will contact her to see if she is taking on new clients. Even if this is a one-off, the amount is large enough to pay for the best advice.

27 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

This move is just one part of widening the tax net which is very small and desperately needs increasing with only 11% of the workforce filing tax returns......it all helps.

agreed. A drop in the bucket and as described elsewhere many times; a daft, poorly thought out idea which will just P/off some retirees here who don't look at the big picture (how fortunate we are to live here) and, most likely, deter some prospective retirees from moving here. 

7 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Life partner?

your profile pic. lighten up :)

9 hours ago, paddypower said:

Thank you for taking the time to go into such detail. I appreciate that - it grounds my thinking, which has been flying all over the place, due to what you correctly describe as badly drafted or imprecise regulations. Even if they were precise - the fact that any IO can interpret-ate  any way he/she wants kills any hope. I practiced tax law, including for off shore trusts. There, you could at least tax plan close to  the line between avoidance and evasion. but, TIT. The proposal to offer to maintain a 400k deposit for the next 12 months plus 775k of income is an excellent suggestion. I wlll try it out, nothing to lose. If he will not bite, then I will switch to using an agent who is capable of negotiating something better than the status quo.

off topic, but an interesting subplot -  you can miss one of the 65k months transfers, due to banking problems (assuming that your annual total income transferred is 800k)  and get approval, if you're willing to made a substantial donation to the football team. In these delicate matters, it comes down to a comparison of the amount of the donation, versus the cost of visa agency fees. disclaimer: The nature of this post is intended to be of good intent, and in the best interests of the public good.

1 minute ago, Mike Lister said:

This move is just one part of widening the tax net which is very small and desperately needs increasing with only 11% of the workforce filing tax returns......it all helps.

yep, although they were the bane of my professional life (and the raison d'etre for it)   tax auditors represent the greatest source of raising tax revenues substantially. but there is just no will to act intelligently,is there. ?

7 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

I did do a later post correcting my mistake. Sorry.

with a 'life partner' that good looking, I'd forgive you for getting distracted :)

7 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Yes, you can do a SWIFT transfer from your Thai bank account and specify where the exchange takes place, here or the receiving bank. I don't see where Revolut comes into it.

thanks for not answering my question.

10 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

You're talking about Foreign Direct Investments and BOI incentives etc, this is a thread about Personal Import Tax

you're correct. I went off-topic. however, the underlying reason behind this proposed personal tax regime is that the Govt wants more revenues. the amount that they are going to collect is minuscule. For 90% of us expats, this is a non-issue, with careful tax planning :)

13 hours ago, KannikaP said:

I take it you mean from your Revolut THB balance.

With Wise one can either send from either GBP account, or THB account. Either way, it costs about the same. You can keep your eye on the Exchange Rate GBP to THB, and convert to THB when it is good. Then send it to Thailand when you need to.

Never done it with Revolut, but if you need it to show in your Thai bank as a Foreign Transfer for Immigration purposes or to buy a property, Wise has a box to tick for that reason, but takes 24 hours longer to get here.

excuse me if I confused things for you. You have got it backwards. I asked (quote) 'I have a question, regarding Revolut. Can you send money abroad from your Thai bank account and if so, is it in Thai baht or do you have to buy the foreign currency, much as you have to do with Swift transfers?

11 hours ago, Lokum said:

(Un)fortunately my beloved mother in law is way wealthier than we are (unfortunately for us she is not the most generous person I’ve met, but fortunately she won’t cheat with the little we have lol).

 

I hope you are right. Maybe we’ll have to consult someone.

wishing you the best of luck. There is a world wide phenomenon; who, the wealthier they are, the more stingy they are too. point in case, we lost a ton of wealth in the tsunami. one side of our 2 families' reaction was - 'we gave to the Red Cross. period. no worries - there's a great expression I've picked up,over the years - there's no pockets in a shroud. ;)

17 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Seriously, the potential exists to almost double GDP, just by collecting taxes from the 50+ that are working cash in hand and the rest of the self employed who are understating their income.

I wonder how much revenues are lost, due to the sweetheart deals where Chinese car imports are incredibly lightly taxed for import duty? coincidentally, you will find several of the 5 families having a financial interest in this business. 

very Thai to blur his face, protecting his privacy and at the same time going OMG

49 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

The combination method. 

So vague and poorly written, it leaves itself open to different interpretations.

 

35/2561. Retirement 2.22, clause (5).

(5) Must have annual earnings and fund deposited with a commercial bank in Thailand totalling of no less than THB 800,000 until the filing date. The said funds must remain in the account prior to and after the permission is granted, and the alien can make a withdrawal under the same conditions as stated in (4).

 

So, what does clause (4) state in relation to the funds part.

(4) At least 2 months prior to filing date, and at least 3 months after being granted permission, the alien must have funds deposited in a bank in Thailand of no less than THB 800,000. The alien can then withdraw the funds 3 months after being granted permission, and the remaining balance must be no less than THB 400,000.

 

In (5) above, what exactly is meany by 'under the same conditions as (4).
Does that mean after 3 months you can withdraw half the funds you're using for the combination method if that happened to be THB 400,000 (?). OR, does it mean after 3 months you can withdraw half the funds, providing said funds being used comply with the requirement of 'and the remaining balance must be no less than THB 400,000'.

 

The senior IO at my IO has a clear understanding and interpretation that when using the combination method, the requirement of the funds part can only be met if maintaining a balance of no less than THB 400,000, the remainder proof of income.

Also, as a Canadian national, my IO would only accept proof of income from an Embassy income letter, purely because it's available.

 

Other IO's, I know, have a different interpretation and will accept THB 200,000 funds and the remainder as proof of income to meet the total of THB 800,000.

It's a million-dollar question, and you can only go along with what your particular IO will accept as meeting the requirements using the combo method.

Thank you for taking the time to go into such detail. I appreciate that - it grounds my thinking, which has been flying all over the place, due to what you correctly describe as badly drafted or imprecise regulations. Even if they were precise - the fact that any IO can interpret-ate  any way he/she wants kills any hope. I practiced tax law, including for off shore trusts. There, you could at least tax plan close to  the line between avoidance and evasion. but, TIT. The proposal to offer to maintain a 400k deposit for the next 12 months plus 775k of income is an excellent suggestion. I wlll try it out, nothing to lose. If he will not bite, then I will switch to using an agent who is capable of negotiating something better than the status quo.

2 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

Everything points at that Small Cap Value Stocks is the right way to go, as they show the highest yield in percentage.

Besides that, can all of us in Thailand that have wife´s we can trust, find good value in buying up land close around new housing projects. During many years that has shown to be a good investment as the price rises quicker due to the demand for shops and companies around housing areas.

it may be ok for your situation, easy to buy land, and sell. For an expat couple its a completely different story. Ive posted elsewhere that my investment strategy is to buy beach land. There is an international market for that. Go check with the banks in your area. You'll see a lot of repossessed land/shop houses. and judging by the direction that the total private sector consumer debt is going...there will be more repo's.

I have a question, regarding Revolut. Can you send money abroad from your Thai bank account and if so, is it in Thai baht or do you have to buy the foreign currency, much as you have to do with Swift transfers?

1 hour ago, Lokum said:

Given the new taxation rules, what is the best option to designate as a reason for a money transfer to fund RE purchase? 
 

money will be transferred via Wise or Revolut to a joint account of my Thai wife and her mother in law.

 

as we are away, the purchase will be on my mother in law name.

 

the amount will be between 2 and 3 million baht.

 

most of the funding is from an upcoming  sale of a property in EU that I inherited last year.

 

We just want to avoid taxation as this is not an income.

 

thanks for the input 

Phew! that's pretty naive of you, no? Regardless of that, there is not risk of being assessed tax on the transfer into Thailand. the only risk that I have observed is that all banks have to make a record of large, incoming transactions. what they do with that info is anybody's guess.  

55 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

It would help immensely if you could state which order number you're quoting clauses 1 - 5 from, which I suspect is original order 327-2557 dated 2014.
The alien:
(1) Must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM). (
2) Must be 50 years of age or over. 

(3) Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month: or

(4) On the filing date, the applicant must have funds deposited in a bank in Thailand of no less than Baht 800,000 for the past three months. For the first year only, the applicant must have proof of a deposit account in which said amount of funds has been maintained for no less than 60 days prior to the filing date: or

(5) Must have an annual earning and fluids deposited with a bank totalling no less than Baht 800,0000 as of the filing date

 

The criteria requirements using the income method were updated Dec 2018 following the US, UK and Australian Embassies ceasing income letters, which until that point were used by all nationalities to provide evidence of pension incomes. The amendment allowed Immigration to accept monthly overseas transfer to an individual's bank account as an alternative method for those now unable to obtain an Embassy Income letter.

In relation to clause (3) using the 65K monthly income transfers to a Thai bank, the updated requirements (2.18 and 2.22) dated Dec 2018 are in order Amend 138-2557 (2018 ) clause 2.18-2.22 for Thai bank income ENG.pdf 

In relation to clause (4) using the 800K funds deposited in a Thai bank account, the updated requirements from Jan 2019 (2.22) are in order 35-2561 (2019 (changed clause 2.22 of 327-2557 ENG.pdf 

 

Prior to 2019 using the 800K funds method, said funds only had to be in a Thai bank account for 3 months prior to the date of application, or 2 months for the very first extension application.
35/2561 changed those requirements, which are now 800K deposited in a Thai bank at least 2 months prior to the date of application, and for 3 months after being granted the extension. You can then withdraw funds 3 months after the extension is issued, but the remaining balance must not fall below 400K. (Clause 4 of 35/2561.)

 

If it's your intention to use the monthly income method of 65K per month for your next extension application, provided you have met the requirements you agreed to at the point of obtaining your previous extension, using the 800K funds method (that is maintained a balance of 800K for 3 months thereafter, and a minimum balance of 400K for the remainder), and you can meet the monthly income requirements, which in your case should be an Embassy Income letter, then after your next extension is issued based on income, you can withdraw any remaining funds.

I keep missing the middle bit. Referring to Order 35/2561 Retirement 2.22 criteria listing (5) says (quote) must have annual earnings and fund deposited with a Thai commercial bank totalling no less than THB 800,00 until the filing date. I took a hard copy of this to IO. As I posted previously, the officer refused to accept my proposal of the combination method:  750,000 pension (not remitted equally every month of 2023) plus 200,000 on term deposit for the previous 12 months. Since I did not use the income method in Jan 2023, the frequency of my transfers to Thailand in 2023 is irrelevant. All that is relevant is that they totalled 750,000, certified by a SCB Bank detailed printout. This was a preliminary (planning) meeting. I wanted to draw down my TD from 800k to 200k, after applying for the extension.. That way, I could carry on into the 2024/5 year, with 200k on deposit, rather than  being obligated to hold 800k on deposit, for 3 months and so on. Every piece of advice here seems to suggests that I cannot do that. To be brutally honest, I get obsessed about stuff like this. I'll follow the law, to the letter, but damnit if they move the goal posts. as I wrrrote elsewhere, maybe better to find an agent who will follow my thinking. (altho' 77, I'm still a spolied brat ;)

On 11/3/2023 at 9:41 AM, CMBob said:

It is certainly true that the funds only have to be in a Thai bank for 2 months prior to application for those converting to a Non-O visa based on retirement from either an exempt entry or tourist visa.  It's a bit more dicey when talking about converting from the 65k/month method to the "money in the bank" method.

When renewing an extension based on the "money in the bank" method, one must show the standard bank letter and the one-year information (showing 800k in the bank for 3 months after the last application and 2 months prior to the new application....with a minimum of 400k for all other times).  I suspect most immigration officers here in CM would require that for any renewal of an extension based on the "money in the bank" method regardless of the illogical conclusion that this would require the applicant to essentially comply with both methods for the year prior to the new application seeking to change methods.

a late response - you and others have finally persuaded me that I will have to comply with both methods, when changing from the 800k method (Jan 2024) to the income method (Jan 2025. I must dig out 'Breakfast in America' and start playing 'The Logical Song' on rotation. :)

14 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

It would help immensely if you could state which order number you're quoting clauses 1 - 5 from, which I suspect is original order 327-2557 dated 2014.
The alien:
(1) Must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM). (
2) Must be 50 years of age or over. 

(3) Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month: or

(4) On the filing date, the applicant must have funds deposited in a bank in Thailand of no less than Baht 800,000 for the past three months. For the first year only, the applicant must have proof of a deposit account in which said amount of funds has been maintained for no less than 60 days prior to the filing date: or

(5) Must have an annual earning and fluids deposited with a bank totalling no less than Baht 800,0000 as of the filing date

 

The criteria requirements using the income method were updated Dec 2018 following the US, UK and Australian Embassies ceasing income letters, which until that point were used by all nationalities to provide evidence of pension incomes. The amendment allowed Immigration to accept monthly overseas transfer to an individual's bank account as an alternative method for those now unable to obtain an Embassy Income letter.

In relation to clause (3) using the 65K monthly income transfers to a Thai bank, the updated requirements (2.18 and 2.22) dated Dec 2018 are in order Amend 138-2557 (2018 ) clause 2.18-2.22 for Thai bank income ENG.pdf 

In relation to clause (4) using the 800K funds deposited in a Thai bank account, the updated requirements from Jan 2019 (2.22) are in order 35-2561 (2019 (changed clause 2.22 of 327-2557 ENG.pdf 

 

Prior to 2019 using the 800K funds method, said funds only had to be in a Thai bank account for 3 months prior to the date of application, or 2 months for the very first extension application.
35/2561 changed those requirements, which are now 800K deposited in a Thai bank at least 2 months prior to the date of application, and for 3 months after being granted the extension. You can then withdraw funds 3 months after the extension is issued, but the remaining balance must not fall below 400K. (Clause 4 of 35/2561.)

 

If it's your intention to use the monthly income method of 65K per month for your next extension application, provided you have met the requirements you agreed to at the point of obtaining your previous extension, using the 800K funds method (that is maintained a balance of 800K for 3 months thereafter, and a minimum balance of 400K for the remainder, and you can meet the monthly income requirements, which in your case should be an Embassy Income letter, then after your next extension is issued based on income, you can withdraw any remaining funds.

got it, finally :) thanks

9 hours ago, noobexpat said:

 

Interesting. I do remember you telling me a bit about it a while back. Good luck with it.

 

There used to be funds whereby people's investments were pooled, a big commercial aeroplane was purchased and leased to the likes of emirates. At the end of the lease period (5 years), the plane was sold and the fund ended and returns distributed. Again, i think covid put a stop to these.

 

Some fascinating investments about.

way off topic - Ha! that would have been a very bumpy 5 years, if it had been the plane (Montego Air Flight 828) which was featured in the TV series Manifest (quite an interesting watch; plot-line - the plane and 191 passengers disappeared for 5 years) 555

15 hours ago, xylophone said:

Trying to answer the OP's question about the investing year ahead will have a different meaning for different posters I would suppose. Those with an overall long-term investment plan (because they are younger) will be different to folks like me in my mid-70s who try to focus on capital retention.

 

To this end I am about to cash up the shares in the only two companies in New Zealand in which I have invested, and which have performed very well over the years with overall growth of around 200%, and average dividends of 5.5%, and focus on fixed interest in the main.

 

For a two-year term deposit I can get 6% and for a five year term deposit 5.5%, so investing in those two TDs will provide a healthy interest amount, then a lump sum in a peer-to-peer lending company which at the moment is paying around 8% pa, then leaving some in a low interest bank account for emergencies/everyday use. Even if the interst rates decline I will have enough from interest and capital on which to see out my years.

 

I have calculated that the interest alone from my investments, coupled with my country pension, should provide me with around 1.3 million baht per annum upon which to live, and as I've already taken care of the 800,000 baht needed for my retirement extension, I don't see any obstacles.

 

That is going to be my investing year ahead, and tomorrow will be the first day when I put it into action by cashing up my NZ shares.
 

as someone else posted - this is a fascinating topic, thanks to the OP for starting it. we're in our late 70's. so its very helpful to read posts like yours. congrats on the 2 wins. still recovering from last years WC encounter with your AB's