Yee gawds!

British banker Rurik Jutting tortured victim for three days, court told

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British banker Rurik Jutting allegedly subjected a 23-year-old Indonesian woman to three days of torture that he filmed on his mobile phone before killing her and another woman at his luxury Hong Kong apartment, a court has heard.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/24/british-banker-rurik-jutting-tortured-victim-three-days-hong-kong-court-told

4 hours ago, phantomfiddler said:

How can he possibly sit there and say "Not guilty" ! What a total s**t of an apology for a man ! This animal should be hung.

They won't hang him.

They'll shoot him.

4 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

Lovely to have some antipodean erudition! Quite sobers one up. Of all of our former colonies they've done jolly well; don't you think? ?

Just now, Grouse said:

47% of manufacturers stated the weak pound had a negative impact against 

So the majority are chuffed to bits?

Dear Fellows!

Tis' gonna be a long hard road to re-balancing the economy, but it can and shall and must be done. Admittedly this is before we've actually had the Brexit, but fingers crossed, eh?

Manufacturing exports boosted by pound

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Manufacturing exports have received a significant boost from the weakness of sterling, according to the the latest report from the CBI.
The Industrial Trends Survey showed that export volumes grew that their fastest pace for two and a half years in the three months to October.
The pound has fallen by nearly a fifth against the dollar since the EU referendum at the end of June.
Export orders are expected to rise further over the next three months.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37748667

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

And that, one and all, is exactly why I have been asking for intelligent debate on the issue. Thank you for taking the time!

 

1) I fully agree about the Euro. You would have to have much closer union of economies which is unlikely. It has of course been great for Germany. They have benefitted massively.

 

2) You are correct that we have very different legal systems which could never merge.

 

3) I don't really know the specific reason why Yugoslavia blew apart. I'll read up on it.....

 

4) Now I do think Brussels could, and indeed still can, be strong armed by the grown ups Germany, UK, Netherlands, Denmark, Finland, and others. Right from the start there were major differences about the degree of integration that was possible or desirable.

 

I still hope we can find a sensible solution to all this ?

 

I will I'll happily join you in a two finger salute to Geldof any time. Way past his sell by date.

Someone described the Euro to me the other day as "the Deutsche Mark in drag".

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

 

You're not wrong, but I think Brexit exacerbates the situation.

 

Anyway, I've cheered up now because TV is back in colour ?

I think the monochrome was easier on the eye.

I agree. But sooner rather than later, that can has been kicked down the end of the QE cul-de-sac now. The banks leaving and taking all their dodginess with them will turn out to be a blessing. Can always start new banks, maybe even with a gold backed currency if Brown hadn't given it all away. 

UK has to rebuild, but there again it was always going to have to.

Considering kids are coming out of "university" to few job opportunities and in an untrained condition with enormous debts and no chance of affording a home, the place is already shot to bits for the younger generations. When I say affordable homes, I mean reasonable capital debt at a reasonable interest rate. It's a mess.

20 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

Actually, I have gone to some trouble NOT to include all the Brexiteers in the numpty camp. Clearly many decided to vote leave after considered thought. It would be interesting to know why you think leaving, with all that implies, against remaining and fixing the undoubted faults from within. Good you speak two languages - not easy to understand the culture without knowing at least some of the language. I have conversational German and Danish. I am disappointed that the majority voted to leave. However, it does not mean that the majority are correct. I feel that UK is now facing mortal danger.

UK's been in mortal danger ever since it decided to rack up a shed load of debt and run the current account and trade deficits it has/does. Last time the UK traded in the black was during the back end of the Major years.

I remember Digby Jones stating unequivocally "We buy something from China for a Pound and sell it in the UK for ten Pounds and that's how the UK economy works!"

Honestly, all this was inevitable Brexit or no-Brexit.

3 minutes ago, Xircal said:

 

What do Schengen borders have to do with the free movement of people? Britain isn't part of the Schengen agreement but still has to allow freedom of movement while it remains a part of the EU.

 

And what do you mean by "problems in several northern EU states which require attention"? It sounds like you're confusing free movement of EU-migrants with those from other countries which has caused Denmark, Germany and Austria to introduce border controls. Merkel created the problem by inviting Syrian refugees to Germany but was overwhelmed by the numbers that took the invitation at face value. That problem has been compounded by gangs smuggling economic migrants looking for a better life in Europe.

 

Border controls have now been introduced to stem the flow. But that has nothing to do with EU-migrants who are entitled to live and work in any of the 28 (soon to be 27 when the UK leaves) member states. For example, Danish citizens can move to and work in Germany or the Netherlands. Italians can go work in Austria or Hungary. But Moroccans or Turks are considered economic migrants and cannot move or work in any EU member state because neither Morocco or Turkey is a member of the EU.

 

As for the UK, it looks like bankers aren't going to hang around until March next year and will be making arrangements to move to an EU location sooner rather than later: http://www.bbc.com/news/business-37743700

 

If the banks leave, do we get to do an Iceland and put the rest in prison?

22 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

The problem with some of the forum Brexit guys is that their research extends no further than copying that which they think chimes into their pre-cast opinions. So, in this example when we are considering Otmar Issing, he has some scathing words to say about the development of the EU. Indeed, but when he spoke in London directly on the issue of Brexit he said:

'When it comes to the referendum, I do hope that fear of getting into uncertainty will prevail over illusionary hopes connected with Brexit'.

 

Is Otmar Issing wrong?

48 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

If there is one thing Brexiteers cannot be faulted on, it is their myriad collection of crystal balls.

Euro 'house of cards' to collapse, warns ECB prophet

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/16/euro-house-of-cards-to-collapse-warns-ecb-prophet/

8 minutes ago, Phuket Man said:

 

Probably for a very long time.

Hopefully it will include U.K. for all our sakes.

The EU will exist in one form or another, but the Eurozone and the Euro I doubt for much longer. Likely all go back to separate European currencies, no ECB and a return of the EEC with no further political integration with a vastly reduced EU acting as oversight for the common market.

2 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

 

I read the same article (I believe), the one to which you refer, the only problem with it is the date line.

 

If only The Pound had not fallen on Brexit specific dates, it might have stood a chance of being correct, as history stands it doesn't.

 

That doesn't negate the fact that The Pound was overvalued for many years, a fact that most TVF posters will choose to ignore, the decline of which was more or less under the control of UK Plc, until the Referendum came along that is and accelerated matters to light speed.

 

 

CM, it's my own observation of the situation, I haven't referred to any article. People are noticing the economy here has been overheating of late.

Yes, Pound overvalued for a long time.

40 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Why is it that Brexiteers can never accept that their better informed, better educated superiors might just have a valid point? There are more peasants than intellectuals does that make them correct? I found the BBC excruciating in their pursuit of balance. Sometimes, just sometimes, experts might be right.

Or maybe, just maybe the UK was heading for a post-2008 QE recession anyway yet being dragged into a centrally controlled (by Brussels) federalist EU would be have been forever.

15 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

Foreign direct investment is key

 

Why build your new plant in UK if your product attracts 10% duty when exported to EU?

Grousey, I'm not against it, just trying to understand why the UK is so special when it comes to this.

Since we import double what we export. Why not use the import tariffs imposed on the imports to subsidise the export tariffs charged? Or is this very naughty?

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

Just being reported in the FT that the UK is 'looking into' continuing paying into the EU budget in order to retain single market access and passporting rights... being discussed in the UK cabinet. This 'announcement' needs to be viewed in the context of earlier rumours concerning Philip Hammond's threat to resign. Watch for opening Asian markets on any impact on sterling. If the story has legs then a potential bounce.

US sells more to the EU than the UK does. Does the US pay to be in "the single market"?

Surely it's better to pay-as-you-go, i.e., pay the tariffs on what you do export to the EU.

9 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

You're tag line really say's it all:

 

"Hello from Little England" ... 

 

The Artusov post was a great example of the disdain for 'experts' ... funny how the government is now hiring foreign trade negotiation experts to deliver on the Brexit negotiations? Over here taking our jobs! I'm surprised they never just put up the vacancies at the job centre ... who needs experts?

Well, thanks for posting it anyway.

1 hour ago, AlexRich said:

The price of Brexit?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/economics-blog/2016/oct/14/uk-living-standards-decline-pound-fall-too-high-price-brexit

Comments really worth reading more than the article . . . 

Quote

Artusov

1d ago 

34

An utterly and truly appalling collection of misleading and dishonest statements : -

1. ' The Brexit vote..... presaged economic disaster '

It didn't and it hasn't. The UK is not in recession . The pound has been falling against the Euro and Dollar for 20 and 30 years - in a cyclic downward trend - and is now falling at a slightly higher rate post 23 June.

2. Hate Crimes up 41 %

Only for JULY. They have returned to normal levels. Given the huge number of immigrants 
from all over the globe started by Blair and Brown - vote gerrymandering - Is anyone surprised ? What's this got to do with economics anyway ?

3. ' Insolvencies at 1400 '

MEANINGLESS. Ten of thousands of businesses fail every year. Most small businesses fail within 5 - 10 years. What % is this ?

4. ' The pound has been in freefall '

Emotive , hysterical and exaggerated scaremongering

5. ' No floor insight '

Trying looking down between your legs. If you are indoors you will see a ' floor ' unless you are in bed or in the bath

6. ' EU leaders - no deal '

What do you expect them to say at this stage and in public ?

7. Bond yields have risen

They go up and down , you know . They had a long run down recently . So perhaps ' up ' is expected.

8. An FT reporter says something

The FT was convinced we should have joined the EURO -that's how smart they are

9. The pound is over-valued

Given the long running and huge balance of trade deficits for the last 5 years the state of the pound is not surprising. I'm surprised it has any value at all.

10. The Big Mac Price Index

Meaningless. If you earn a lot , then a ' relatively expensive to the UK price ' burger means nothing. The figure should be ' How long does it take Mr Average to earn enough to buy one ? '

PS Anyone who eats Big Macs deserves to be poor.

Remember : You are just an economist.

You produce nothing and tell us nothing

There are too many of you

Your only talent is to get mugs to pay you.

Won't Spurs take you back as a janitor ?

30 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

The price of Brexit?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/economics-blog/2016/oct/14/uk-living-standards-decline-pound-fall-too-high-price-brexit

Wealth of people in their 30s has 'halved in a decade'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37508968

It's been going down the £$%tter for a long time now.

3 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 

  Earlier in this thread,someone said 10% tariffs. Now who said that,ah yes one of the Remoaners.

So if they Quids' dropped 20% and they add 10% tariffs . . . we're still cheaper.

UK economy was shot to pieces anyway and the fall in the Pound was inevitable after QE, wild trade and current account deficits etc. Jim Rogers has for a long time considered the UK to be a basket case. It was coming and now is the chance to put the thing straight.

14 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

It never was!

 

Yes, I know that. There was a likely chance it would have been at some time in the future however.

8 minutes ago, cumgranosalum said:

don't you just love it - they wanted to leave the EU and now the pound has joined the Euro!

But it hasn't. The UK is not controlled by the ECB.

8 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Here's a blog that examines precisely that question.

 

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/10/11/notes-on-brexit-and-the-pound

Thanks. 

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

This sounds positive, pragmatic...

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/37671236?client=safari

Grousey,

What would be the effect of the UK just going straight to WTO rules? How much are the tariffs to sell into the EU? US sells more to the EU than the UK does and the UK runs a trade deficit with the EU. With the drop in the Quid, even with the tariffs, does this make the UK more competitive and if so over what time period?