WinnieTheKhwai

And then there's the area around The Scenic Impala that's incredibly promising, but it's not very well known so best to keep it that way.

I've fessed up to being given too much change too many times to mention. However I did find a 500bht note on the ground once and put in my pocket. Am I a bad person?

Anywhere I go I like to debunk the myth that farang are bad so once I actually had to jokingly argue with the lady on the till in Tescos she charged me for 3 drinks and I bought 4. So I kept saying, in thai, the price for one and then counting how many I had until she realised.

Oh, that reminds me of a point I wanted to make!

When you're being under-charged and you bring up the discrepancy, almost everyone will assume that you are arguing that you have been over-charged. Language is a factor here, and before you know it you have someone on the defensive. Some people when on the (perceived) defensive then shut off to any additional arguments to the contrary, that you're trying to give them money BACK!..

Another thing that happens is being embarrassed, which is a big deal in Thailand when you're seen as making a mistake. So for this reason too it's best not to grand-stand about it, to embarrass the person making a mistake. For example, if a bar owner notices that a staff member gives back too much change, then typically there's hel_l to pay. So be discrete!

Both things above taken into consideration, it's best to point out the discrepancy smilingly, and softly, and getting immediately to the point without joking around initially. (You can still do so after you've successfully communicated that you're going to give him/her some money BACK, but then without causing embarrassment. )

Is this a commercial or a posting? I wasn't aware we could advertise here.

Please, it's bad enough without freelance forum-gestapo donning their TV-Volunteer-police T-shirts.

It sounds like a good thing to do for a Sunday afternoon. Instead of sniping about it, why not offer something positive, something else to do on this beautiful sunny morning?

Besides Shinawatra, another major higher-end silk shop is Villa Cini.

Vila Cini

If you are on the hunt for silk, head to Villa Cinci. This boutique sells a gorgeous selection of contemporary silk accessories, ranging from ties and cushions to bags. Upstairs silk can be bought by the metre. There's also a Vila Cini in The Mandarin Oriental Shopping Arcade. Top tip: just next door to Vila Cini is Oriental Silk, which is definitely worth a look for its cotton fabrics and teak furniture.

Vila Cini

30 Charoenrat Road

Chiang Mai

Phone: +66 (53) 246246

In the Pratunam area, just in front of Platinum Fashion Mall, at least 200 people along the streets and pedestrians on the overpass ecstatically cheered the red procession as it marched on for more than five hours until 3.45pm

What an amazing statement ...... 200 people in Pratunam (one of the highest population densities in the city) supporting the reds now consititutes them coming out in "force" to show support! LOL

Posted some links above; you tell me. The positives I'm taking are primarily:

- It's all peaceful and in good spirit

- Authorities are allowing it to go on; people like Suthep went pretty quiet recently.

- People apparenlty don't feel intimidated to show support.

The usual suspects now seem to be complaining about numbers not being massive or stifling enough, and they seem genuinely miffed that there's no violence.. i.e. complaining that it ISNT the disaster they were predicting before?? Complaining that supporters aren't 'truly' middle class but adjust to 'lower' middle class..

So really it's all good.

An interesting outcome to the procession.

I am also amazed that the Nation printed the headline. Obviously the Sunday editor will need a little re-education on Monday morning. Seeing that there is also an element of support in Bangkok goes to start showing that this is not entirely a rural movement.

LOL. Right, but it's positive that even The Nation cannot avoid some things anymore.

I would suggest that the reds play on this issue for all its worth. Red flowers dropped around the city by pedestrians?

They already do that. Can't find a picture right now though. Posting another batch or rally pics instead:

http://www.pantip.com/cafe/rajdumnern/topi...0/P9016480.html

http://picasaweb.google.co.th/RedInTheLandBkk/udqjHC#

http://www.prachataiwebboard.com/webboard/id/30875

This is for straight men, right?

Not at all, that'd be sexist. Feel free to take the test.

The ambivalence in the mall vs the other locations is interesting. I would think it is either the right thing to do everywhere or no where.

Another consideration is that clerks, sales people, wait people all are responsible for their accounts. And malls, specially, will run checks on amount run up vs item sold; it is a big problem. For that same reason, malls have store security monitoring employees going into the bathrooms.

So, seems fairly clear to me.

Yes, to me too. There's a slight consideration in the above example though: If they give you back too much change, then this is a mistake that will come back to bite the individual staff member at the end of their shift and their change doesn't add up to what should be there. However, if they for example forget to scan something, then this will go undetected (until some inventory count) and then it's not attributable to any particular staff member. (Not that I'm not saying that this would affect my response, I'm just pointing at the concept)

Wow! A puritan!

I think it would be dishonest not to point out an obvious error like the one mentioned above. Taking something without properly paying for it is a form of stealing. I don't think it is anything worth bragging about. On the contrary, it's shameful.

I think a poll is in order.. Stay tuned.

No doubt the freak of polls will be past shortly.

I don't know what that means. Will try again after coffee.

Done; poll is here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/You-re-Pay-S...ng-t349320.html

EDIT: Note: I realize this is NOT the same scenario as this topic, however it did gave me the idea for the poll.

Do you point out an error in your favor when being charged a lower amount incorrectly, or when you get back too much change?

Please also add any aspects or considerations not covered in the poll.

Wow! A puritan!

I think it would be dishonest not to point out an obvious error like the one mentioned above. Taking something without properly paying for it is a form of stealing. I don't think it is anything worth bragging about. On the contrary, it's shameful.

I think a poll is in order.. Stay tuned.

Excellent article, again. Shows that really international news organizations DO have what it takes when there's really something to report. I got a bit disenchanted with Western news/media organizations just running another stale thing related to the usual topic when it comes to Thailand.

Me neither. MANY expats also aren't exactly 60 year old men. I like the Khao San area. it's still international, but at least there's no rules or formulas being imposed on anything. I absolutely hate bars that are managed to death; I don't WANT a consistent experience when having fun, I want to it be casual and expecting the unexpected.

No dress codes

No quotas

No rules as to what staff can or cannot drink either trhough rules or skewed commissions.

Sensible prices instead of a unified high price for any drink

Music that moves with the mood, which will most likely include The Switch to Thai country or mor lam music at some point.

Etc.

Just the minimum number of rules and regulations applied

Wow, going 20 posts without a proper link:

Proper Link Is Here!

Got 80 - 80 - 70.

However a lot of that is due to going Sherlock Holmes with the pictures, for example many of the true lady pictures are taken at car show or other events where they're likely to use female models who were also born that way.

That's not wrong though, because in real life you also need to 'use the force' sometimes to make the call. ( I mean the horror of getting stuck with a female when you think you scored a ladyboy.. )

Expat to me can be any nationality, very much including Japanese people, etc. I don't really understand that sentiment at all; particular nationalities may have slightly different preferences in what they like in nightlife, and bars, being commercial businesses, may cater to (a) particular group(s). That's all good to me.

To be honest I'm happy anywhere as long as it doesn't break the bank. Very much includes local hangouts that are mostly visited by Thai people. (In Bangkok I wouldn't know where to find those though, and this topic is about Bangkok.)

Here is even The Nation acknowledging local support. Not sure if we'll see this one in the News section to I'll post it here:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...t-30125174.html

Red shirts lap up urban support

By PRAVIT ROJANAPHRUK

THE NATION

Many in working- and lower-middle classes back movement

The massive 20-kilometre-long red-shirt motorcade around Bangkok Saturday proved beyond doubt that many working-class and lower-middle-class people in the capital support the red shirts, as they came out in force to wildly cheer the caravan as if their liberators had arrived.

Police estimate 65,000 red shirts took part in the procession with 10,000 motorcycles and 7,000 other vehicles, mostly pickups and lorries, involved. The real numbers are hard to estimate, however.

The seemingly endless motorcade left the protest site at 10am and made its way through major streets such as New Phetchaburi, Ratchadaphisek, Lat Phrao, Ramkhamhaeng and Rama IV.

In the Pratunam area, just in front of Platinum Fashion Mall, at least 200 people along the streets and pedestrians on the overpass ecstatically cheered the red procession as it marched on for more than five hours until 3.45pm.

The whole atmosphere resembled a carnival or fiesta. Many bystanders went onto the streets to interact more closely with those in the procession. The caravan rolled on at what could be considered brisk walking pace.

Many of those cheering the red shirts donned red or had something red on them, such as a handkerchief or a headband. They jumped, danced, waved and shook their foot clappers. They also handed out bottled water to members of arguably the longest political caravan in Thai history.

A clear majority of those waving and cheering were working-class and lower-middle-class people, highlighting the growing disquiet over class inequality among the poor as well as indicating class solidarity.

A clear majority of the sympathisers appeared to be street vendors, clerks, waitresses, hotel cooks, security guards, taxi drivers, motorcycle-taxi riders, and local residents coming from the more congested and poorer parts of Bangkok.

Some shouted: "Abhisit [Vejjajiva, prime minister] get out!" Others shook hands and patted the shoulders of red-shirt protesters who passed by. Looking cheerful and confident, they seemed to have the belief that they would eventually prevail. Car-honking and loud anti-Abhisit and anti-old-elite slogans were heard along the route.

At a restaurant at the Lat Phrao-Ratchadaphisek intersection, one middle-class customer, who is not a red-shirt supporter, told The Nation: "These days people simply say they want to see either a quick victory or defeat. They're tired of it."

Some hostile reception was reported in areas such as Onnuj and Klong Tan with a bottle thrown at Democratic Alliance against Dictatorship co-leader Natthawut Saikua missing its target in the Klong Tan area.

Many of those who opposed the march, which paralysed much of Bangkok's traffic, kept off the streets and posted their dismayed feelings online.

"Why don't they shut their own province down? People are fed up," read one such posting on prachatai.com online newspaper.

Some subway gates were temporarily shut yesterday from 10.40am, leaving those who were trapped agitated. "You are just creating an image that these people are violent and cruel!" one woman commuter reprimanded a subway staff member at Exit 1 of Phra Ram 9 station. "They don't even carry weapons."

A man in his mid-fifties was furious, as he could not exit from the gate. "This kind of stupidity will only earn more sympathisers for the reds ... This country has gone nuts! If you're to shut the gate why don't you shut down the whole subway as well so I won't have to use it."

Krishna Sajjadej, a subway staff member, apologised to the 30 or so stranded commuters, who were not easily appeased.

In the afternoon, at a petrol station near the Lat Phrao-Ratchadaphisek intersection, two red shirts speculated as to why Abhisit would not resign or dissolve the House. One said it was because the military and the elites who controlled him had told the premier not to do so.

"But we shall eventually oust him," said a middle-aged red shirt.

-- The Nation 20 March 2010

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Seeing this topic is under close watch, let me first make it clear that what I'm about to say is on the topic of bars & nightlife. Drinking, playing pool, hanging out with friends, etc. That's primarily what I'm looking for when going out in Bangkok.

That said... I don't like Cowboy much. Absolutely hate Patpong. Nana as lost pretty much all of the small fun bars. This is happening in Cowboy as well, there were times when places weren't managed to death , with rules for everything. I don't think I need say more than "Midnite". All the new ones are far too professional and formulaic.

So where do I go.. Small sois mostly. 7/1. Boo Sa Bar is back under the original management after being rented out for over a year. And it shows, it's great. Laid back management and laid back rules for me make all the difference.

Of course 7/1 is a bit too small to be "THE" next area, but I can see this happening in other sois and sub-sois. Dedicated 'Expat' nightlife of the naughty kind is becoming more and more a fringe thing in Bangkok. Possibly for the better, maybe I should grow up.

I have to agree with Winnie on this topic. I haven't been back to Bangkok for at least 5 years, and I stopped going when I saw how Nana and Soi Cowboy were going rapidly downhill. Most of the punters moved on to Pattaya, and even that is changing. The Asia Bugle used to highlite all the girly bars in Bangkok, Patpong, Patong, Pattaya and even Angeles City in the Philippines. But, even the Asia Bugle hasn't had much good to write about recently.

Maybe I'm just getting old and prefer going to the two or three bars I like in Chiang Mai where all the staff know and like me.

Yes, exactly same for me. Also the part of not having even been to Bangkok for multiple years. But I was there last week, and I don't think I missed much. Still managed to spend a crapload of money though and blow my budget for the rest of the month.

Pattaya is the place to go for fun nightlife. More tourists there as well in the bars and that's probably a good thing; keeps things lively. When bar staff get almost exclusively jaded Farang expats, the vibe kind of rubs off.

Class war in Thailand = new money vs old money

Found a picture to underline that..

It makes me sad to think that Patpong, Nana, and Soi Cowboy are considered "Ex-pat" hangouts by the OP.

I don't think it's fair to pin this on the OP.. Just looking around Cowboy or Nana it's really quite obvious that most foreigners there are in Thailand for an extended period of time, not tourists fresh off the plane. There are a couple of course but by no means a majority.

Evidently not all expats have the same tastes; some abhor that sort of nightlife and prefer to visit other areas, or stay home with the family for that matter. Fortunately there are options for all in Bangkok.

Seeing this topic is under close watch, let me first make it clear that what I'm about to say is on the topic of bars & nightlife. Drinking, playing pool, hanging out with friends, etc. That's primarily what I'm looking for when going out in Bangkok.

That said... I don't like Cowboy much. Absolutely hate Patpong. Nana as lost pretty much all of the small fun bars. This is happening in Cowboy as well, there were times when places weren't managed to death , with rules for everything. I don't think I need say more than "Midnite". All the new ones are far too professional and formulaic.

So where do I go.. Small sois mostly. 7/1. Boo Sa Bar is back under the original management after being rented out for over a year. And it shows, it's great. Laid back management and laid back rules for me make all the difference.

Of course 7/1 is a bit too small to be "THE" next area, but I can see this happening in other sois and sub-sois. Dedicated 'Expat' nightlife of the naughty kind is becoming more and more a fringe thing in Bangkok. Possibly for the better, maybe I should grow up.

Don't stay in the dorm:

- Privacy issues: what if you meet the girl (or boy, don't know your gender and preference) of your dreams tomorrow. Dorms don't allow outsiders in, plus there's a roommate.

- For the money it's almost a non issue.. food is cheap, and you can get an apartment in town for 3000 per month or so. Your parents can afford it.

- Do get a bike; like you say, it makes transportation to/from Payap MUCH more affordable. Buying a bike will save your parents money, assuming you'll sell it again for not much more less than you bought it for.

- How long will you be in Chiang Mai? If it's a limited amount of time, you may not need to transfer the bike into your name, you can just sell it again with the papers and signed ownership transfer documents that came with it. Saves a lot of hassle transferring ownership.

- Motorbike brakes/gears: You'll get used to it. Or find a full auto Honda Click and the like; no gear changes and front and back brakes are at your hands

- Residence cert: Get from immigration. You will need to show something that shows the address and that you rent it, so the renter needs to sign this. You're on a non-immigrant education visa right?

- Health cert: 50 baht at any clinic or hospital. The smaller the less fuss. You're out the door in 10 minutes.

Right. And besides, this is Chiang Mai, they're not here to piss people off, or force something short-term.

You are ignoring a fact - Thaksin was PM for five years, with an overwhelming mandate from the public. What did he do for the poor while in office? Funneled money thru the village headmen (no wonder they love him) for some roads to be paved. 30 baht health care plan with no long term planning. What about education? The guy appointed himself Minister of Ed - what positive changes did he bring?

It's pretty fruitless to debate this here. What matters is that the (alleged) beneficiaries of his policies themselves perceive his actions as having been beneficial to them, to an extent never seen before or since; therefore they support him and vote for him.

It's not hard to find fault with some or even most things Thaksin did. What you or I think about that matters none. What matters is what a significant percentage of the electorate thinks.

When the moat hits your eyes

With electrical supplies--

That's Amore!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHRGHH..

<falls on the floor>