ttelise

Aah now we have strict law enforcement AND over the top police action. Over a hundred arrests within a few hours after the rally kicked of. If the rally would have prolonged for let's say 2 weeks, how many people would have been arrested 10,000? 20,000? All?

Nobody sees any double standards here?

It seems like the arrests by the Police were just token gestures on trivial offences,otherwise why did the police let 137 free,without charging them?

. . . or one could say, that relasing them without fformal charges was a good faith gesture on the part of Yingluck to circumvent further devisiveness. No need to create more martyr-like issues resulting from prosecution of these guys. The fact that all were let go supports the intuitive forward thinking explanation. Otherwise, they could charge some or all of the protesters regardless of their actions in an effort to save face. A small group of you guys are going to complain, criticize or condemn whether they were charged or let go irregardless of the circumstances.

So now that the police are masters of the art of containing situations, we will see them deployed in the south protecting the population there and preventing the murder of any more teachers - 160 and counting.

Haha, really? What an asinine statement, unless of course you mean the protesters yesterday were terrorists comparable to those terrorists in the South.

Quoted from:ttellise:

Oh, are you a lawyer now. I am.

If some said that over a loud speaker at a protest to overthrow US president, they would be spending some time in solitary confinement. Not sure how you can rationalize or defend "Yingluck must die" absent serious denial and deep seeded prejudice.

I am sorry, but you did not get your law degree in US. No one in the US would be sent to jail for saying "let's overthrow the President". This is just not factual. Ever hear of "free speech". You wouldn't even get into law school without knowing this.

.

Saying pres must die during an anti government rally calling for a coup would like lead to terrorism and treason charges in US. Both charges can result in solitary.

Slow down, think through the process and research is your friend. Not huge logical leaps there so I did not think stating obvious was necessary.

Oh, are you a lawyer now. I am.

If some said that over a loud speaker at a protest to overthrow US president, they would be spending some time in solitary confinement. Not sure how you can rationalize or defend "Yingluck must die" absent serious denial and deep seeded prejudice.

The poor English would not appear to reinforce your professional claims.

There were indeed threats to kill Obama in the months leading up to the election. Whilst i have heard that the threats were being taken seriously and looked into, I haven't heard about people in jail.

Solitary confinement? I find that very hard to believe.

I haven't seen anyone attempt to defend the statement but if the courts were to react to every alleged tweet in the same way as you, they'd never get anything done.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

Not trying to impress anyone on here and mostly typing on iphone . . .

So the 'I'm a lawyer' statement wasn't an attempt to impress?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

Yep. That was precisely the reason I said that. Haha, read much?

Lost not to a evil leader..but to a stupid cause...people are fed up...

Who cares about the people? Money talks.

The people believe (more than 60%) that corruption is OK. They got what they voted for, they got what they believe in. Who can complain?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

Precisely the reason why all the little TV minions should to stop whining and sthu.

Are you including yourself in that statement?

Haha, nice try, but I have not articulated any complaints about any political party in power.

Funny how on the one hand we have people here applauding a protest gathering barely an hour or two old being immediately clamped down on, to the point where a lot of people weren't even allowed to leave their own provinces and come to Bangkok, much less actually protest, and on the other hand we have people complaining about draconian laws that stifle free speech.

What clamp down?

I didn't mean a violent clamp down. I was referring to the road blocks and the tactic of stopping people getting to Bangkok. Clamping down as in stopping people.

With regards the skirmishes between those who did make it to Bangkok and the police, i am pretty much of the same mind as you. Using gas was probably overboard but if the police erect a barrier, it's right that they shouldn't simply stand by and allow the barrier to be removed.

Like the red shirts, I'm sure upcountry Pitak Siam protesters would've reached the site eventually... but it was called off early, so we'll never know.

With regards the protest being called off early, do you know how long it was actually planned for? To me a day or two for protesting is about right, so i wouldn't have called it, called off early, but that is just me. Perhaps PS organisers had different ideas. Anyway, they certainly got plenty of media coverage, and they can now moan about oppression of free speech, and regroup for their next shin-dig, so i guess they will feel it was worth it.

From my perspective, i feel a pressure group highlighting some of the problems with the government wouldn't be a bad thing, but wish that,

1) it was a pressure group without any extremist element

2) it looked at using other ways of getting itself heard rather than the usual let's lay siege on Bangkok

Bangkok has had enough of this crap. Yes i speak for 10 million people! I checked with them all this morning.

I condemned the red shirts when they thought it their right to take over Bangkok and make demands on behalf of all Thai people about the government, and having taken that stand, that gives me the right to condemn anyone else who plans on doing the same sort of thing.

There are many people here however who have no right to condemn the actions of Pitak Siam, because for the last two years they have been defending the exact same sort of behaviour (just about ten times more intense and protracted) by a different group, just in that case a group they happen to support. Rank hypocrisy abounds.

Nice, so now you are the self-appointed arbiter of who has standing to complain about anything political. I am sure every one will heed that pronouncement.

The common denominator is not just a hatred of Thaksin but a fear of the implications of a genuinely democratic Thailand.

They fear the implications of a genuinely democratic Thailand? Really?

OK then, perhaps then someone should go and tell them that they really need not, as in a genuinely democratic Thailand, Thaksin and all his cronies that they hate so much, would no longer exist.

Does this actually mean anything - especially the second para?

Para 2 above is as logical as the remainder of their rhetoric.

Lost not to a evil leader..but to a stupid cause...people are fed up...

Who cares about the people? Money talks.

The people believe (more than 60%) that corruption is OK. They got what they voted for, they got what they believe in. Who can complain?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

Precisely the reason why all the little TV minions should to stop whining and sthu.

What was the fence there for then? Ornamental purposes? They cut the fence and ran to the police line. Hold them off with what? Get into a street fight better you say?

I am quite amazed they let them even cut the wires.

Were you there? If not I suggest you stop yourself looking even more foolish than already (if possible) your ignorance of the situation on the ground is outstanding.

It's on video.

Oh, are you a lawyer now. I am.

If some said that over a loud speaker at a protest to overthrow US president, they would be spending some time in solitary confinement. Not sure how you can rationalize or defend "Yingluck must die" absent serious denial and deep seeded prejudice.

The poor English would not appear to reinforce your professional claims.

There were indeed threats to kill Obama in the months leading up to the election. Whilst i have heard that the threats were being taken seriously and looked into, I haven't heard about people in jail.

Solitary confinement? I find that very hard to believe.

I haven't seen anyone attempt to defend the statement but if the courts were to react to every alleged tweet in the same way as you, they'd never get anything done.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

Not trying to impress anyone on here and mostly typing on iphone . . .

Really. Stating "Yingluck must die" at an event desinged to overthrow government or spark a coup is a death threat. Clearly inciting someone to do the chore. Substance over form.

As the accompanying Tweet in that link poignantly points out, we all "must die".

While provocative, it's not the declarative statement necessary to pursue prosecution.

The law looks at things clearly.

.

Oh, are you a lawyer now. I am.

If some said that over a loud speaker at a protest to overthrow US president, they would be spending some time in solitary confinement. Not sure how you can rationalize or defend "Yingluck must die" absent serious denial and deep seeded prejudice.

I would no longer take the US as the ideal country representing 'freedom of speech' anymore. For many reasons (not to be debated here). You must also remember a 'tweet' is a snippet of what was said and in context it may carry different weight and meaning. He did not say, we must kill yingluck. What was said could be taken many ways also depending on the context in which it was said.

That is just intellectually dishonest. His statement that "Yingluck must die" in unambiguous and unequivocally conveyed that someone needs to take her out. Given the setting and their agenda, the is scant room for an interpretation to the contrary. Jeez, just admit what it says and you would at least have some credibility. All of this blaming everyone else, playing victim, and refusal to accept any responsibility for anything are character traits that really get under my skin. Haha, I guess that is why I engage in this because I see so much of that even though I could actually give a crap less about the substative issues comprising the contoversy.

What a nice picture for our friend Buscholtz who were asking yesterday if we had any proof that it was actually the protestors who were responsible for the violence during the demonstration.

What a thoughtless statement.

It was the protesters fault had nothing to do with the fact that they were protesting against the government.

The big question for some who are slow is why did the police send so many anti riot police to the demonstration and try to box them in to a small area with barb wire, They came prepared to provoke it.

Have they ever used any where near these tactics on the red shirt demonstrators. Of course not they did not want to turn them into violent situations.

It dosen't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. First the Government whips up fear of violence by claiming plans to kill there leader then they discover plans to kidnap Yingluck and others.

Some times I wonder if other countries have the same low standard of education as Thailand their posts would indicate it.

Haha, there he goes again with the barb wire made us do it excuse. Yep those protesters saw that barb wire and were driven to the brink of insanity causing them to get violent, cut the barb wire and charge the police. Yeah, I agree that if the cops did not bring the barb wire the protesters would have not felt the need to cut through it and charge the police.

Now the number of police present made the protesters act like thugs and try to incite violence. I agree that if there were only 10 cops there the protesters would have been in their best behaviour and would have never attempted to over run 10 cops.

So your lesson to the government is that you guys cannot have peaceful protests if there is barb wire present and a lot of cops there. You guys see barb wire and cops everywhere will lose it and act like thugs.

I am sure if they promise to act nice next time Yingluck will use paper machette barricades and assign the 10 hottest female traffic cops as the security.

as always you miss the point,

Haha, no unfortunately I get it. I was just responding at a similar intellectual level as his logic. I think you are the one whose hair is flapping in the wind as all of this went swiftly over the top of your head.

What a nice picture for our friend Buscholtz who were asking yesterday if we had any proof that it was actually the protestors who were responsible for the violence during the demonstration.

What a thoughtless statement.

It was the protesters fault had nothing to do with the fact that they were protesting against the government.

The big question for some who are slow is why did the police send so many anti riot police to the demonstration and try to box them in to a small area with barb wire, They came prepared to provoke it.

Have they ever used any where near these tactics on the red shirt demonstrators. Of course not they did not want to turn them into violent situations.

It dosen't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. First the Government whips up fear of violence by claiming plans to kill there leader then they discover plans to kidnap Yingluck and others.

Some times I wonder if other countries have the same low standard of education as Thailand their posts would indicate it.

Haha, there he goes again with the barb wire made us do it excuse. Yep those protesters saw that barb wire and were driven to the brink of insanity causing them to get violent, cut the barb wire and charge the police. Yeah, I agree that if the cops did not bring the barb wire the protesters would have not felt the need to cut through it and charge the police.

Now the number of police present made the protesters act like thugs and try to incite violence. I agree that if there were only 10 cops there the protesters would have been in their best behaviour and would have never attempted to over run 10 cops.

So your lesson to the government is that you guys cannot have peaceful protests if there is barb wire present and a lot of cops there. You guys see barb wire and cops everywhere will lose it and act like thugs.

I am sure if they promise to act nice next time Yingluck will use paper machette barricades and assign the 10 hottest female traffic cops as the security.

Two days ago he was saying that any violence by yellow shirts was going to be red shirts in disguise. Now he's defending them. I'm confused.

I know. It's a comedy routine like who's on first, what's on second.

participating in a plan to remove or kill the PM. Any rational or reasonable person should be able to see whose actions were illegal

Threatening to kill someone is illegal. Did they arrest that person? If not, is it because they didn't say to kill the PM?

Haven't gotten through all the news, but the only thing I saw posted thus far was a tweet quoting a speaker on stage

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__5873838

, but the quote didn't say to kill the PM.

Really. Stating "Yingluck must die" at an event desinged to overthrow government or spark a coup is a death threat. Clearly inciting someone to do the chore. Substance over form.

As the accompanying Tweet in that link poignantly points out, we all "must die".

While provocative, it's not the declarative statement necessary to pursue prosecution.

The law looks at things clearly.

.

Oh, are you a lawyer now. I am.

If some said that over a loud speaker at a protest to overthrow US president, they would be spending some time in solitary confinement. Not sure how you can rationalize or defend "Yingluck must die" absent serious denial and deep seeded prejudice.

Those in power actually have a duty to protect the public at large and based on how things have gone in 06, 08, and 2010, I would say barricades and nipping this in bud real quickly was about the mist prudent thing anyone has done in Thailand in a long time.

"Nipping in the bud" a protest only hours old before people have even be allowed to assemble and before anything has actually happened is not prudent it is anti-democratic, anti-free speech and dictatorial, and will only in the long term harden resolve for the next "get-together" that they will no doubt organise.

I appreciate with the recent history of protest related problems, and with some of the idiotic things being called for yesterday, like a coup, there was a desire to not allow the same escalation as we have seen in the past, but you have to balance those concerns with allowing democracy to function, and part of democracy functioning is allowing protest. Otherwise Thailand just becomes another Myanmar.

The government needs to find a way of persuading people that they can have their say, they can let off steam, but they have to stay within the law, and ultimately, they have to go home and wait until elections when everyone will have a chance to have their say, not just a minority of people on the streets of Bangkok. Of course how exactly the government does this is the tricky part, as they themselves not much more than two years ago were involved in doing the exact opposite of what they now preach.

Nah, they could have easily had a peaceful protest and I am sure police would have stood back. The cops were not the ones cutting the barb wire to get to the other side of thr barriers or to over take the protesters.

Nevertheless, No, Thailand does not need any more of the bi-annual mob rules coup style government overthrow demonstrations. Pretty much abused the right.

These demonstrations are not democratic. They are designed for one purpose, overthrow PM. Stop being dishonest and have the balls and integrity to call it what it is. At least you or they would be respectable then.

This starting a bunch of clashes, calling for a coup then playing victim and crying no democracy when broken up is laughable.

These protester thugs need to chill out, be adults and figure out a way to win at the polls and keep their butts at home in the couch.

It is not like the current PM is commiting human rights atrocities or doing anything really bad. Calling for a coup or saying she must die is beyond reasonable and beyond free speech.

participating in a plan to remove or kill the PM. Any rational or reasonable person should be able to see whose actions were illegal

Threatening to kill someone is illegal. Did they arrest that person? If not, is it because they didn't say to kill the PM?

Haven't gotten through all the news, but the only thing I saw posted thus far was a tweet quoting a speaker on stage

, but the quote didn't say to kill the PM.

.

Really. Stating "Yingluck must die" at an event desinged to overthrow government or spark a coup is a death threat. Clearly inciting someone to do the chore. Substance over form.

No, subprime, collaterizrd debt, credit swaps and bad bond guarantees by Freddie, Fannie and Ginnie killed US economy, led to a reduction in net wealth (home values and investments) of around 7.3 trillion. Reduction in home values occurred because consumer lending reduced to a trickle. Commercial and residential development lending stopped.

This had a huge domino effect on world markets so we actually took you guys down.

And these are the lessons Thailand can learn from the US democracy? I think you have econ and politics confused.

I was actually responding to a statement that world economy led to implosion of US economy.

Actually, smart people learn from others' mistakes. Many lessons to be learned with regard to Bush and his cronies' actions between 2001 and late 2007. Thaksin's actions pale in comparison to their actions and serving their own self interests. Those few individuals dud more damage to US economy than any other people ever during the history of US.

There things that US does correctly despite our faults. An intelligent person should be able to differentiate the good from bad and emulate the good that may work in another system.

I think it is possible for Thailand to learn something from the US about democracy. Don't have a coup. Even if the party who wins is not the party you want to win. Even if the voters are not as smart as you would like them to be; don't have a coup. Even if the voters wear a different color shirt than you do; don't have a coup. Calling for the violent overthrow of the government because you do not agree with the government is not a good idea.

Yet in the US in the past 50 years, one president got murdered, the other one was barely saved from a attempt on his life. So although 98% of the US population will agree with you, there are enough who don't to make the president's security a big deal.

The guy that shot Reagan had nothing to do with political motivations so not sure how that relates to comments about a coup.

If Boonlert had called his rally one against corruption, left the politics out of it, he may have had more support. Unlike the reds 2010 protest, the govt way outmaneuvered the General. Thanks goodness he never had to meet an enemy at war!!! Blocked participants, had barricades in place way before they turned up and had a show of force by police the dems could never arrange. Crushed prior to birth. The reds and the Thaksin faction are in power and they will hang on to it to milk Thailand as long as they can by any means possible. The spin doctors like Chalerm pre-empting violence and then no doubt undertaking it when not called for, does not cause him any concern whatsoever. The next few days as to charges against the demonstrators, you can bet he will make examples of them to ensure people will think twice about further demonstrations. Welcome to dictatorship 'Thaksinocracy'. You wanted it, you got it.

Those in power actually have a duty to protect the public at large and based on how things have gone in 06, 08, and 2010, I would say barricades and nipping this in bud real quickly was about the mist prudent thing anyone has done in Thailand in a long time.

Looks like mob rules to overthrow PM days are over. Now you guys will have to figure out how to win at the polls like everyone else.

A total of 117 protesters - 94 men and 23 women - were being detained at the Border Patrol Police Region 1 headquarters in Pathum Thani yesterday, according to Pol Lt-General Nares Nanthachot, commander of Police Region 1.

Will the government provide bail for these obviously political prisoners, or just let them go to save money and show some real reconciliation spirit ?

Assaulting a police officer is not a political prisoner. More victim card stuff. Too funny.

I'm not a supporter of either side and wish they would unite for the sake of the Country .... but this report is a huge distortion. I spent the day at the site taking photos and it was 99.9% peaceful with a tiny bit of staged trouble. There were several people at the site entrances with loud hailers trying to inject a bit of drama (near the two news camera teams I saw) ..... but really, if you saw the age of most the people there you'd know this was never going to become violent on anything but a tiny/isolated scale.

It would be great if the press focussed on the few people on all sides who are trying to create drama for thier own purposes, and reported on them as individuals and stopped trying to make false claims about the 'masses'. I was in the middle of the Red Shirts (my office is in Chidlom) and it was the same thing .... 99.9% peaceful, concerned citizens being misled by a few.

I see the same polarization on this site ..... and it makes no sense to me. We're mostly foreign visitors here - why should we take sides in an artificail battle created by a few rish people for their own purposes?

I am sure everyone reporting what it was like will gave different spin and agendas. The videos are probably about as objective as it gets and those show more than just a few people acting thuggish.