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7by7
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Posts posted by 7by7
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9 minutes ago, vinny41 said:
suggest you check again 19% said they made their minds up between 26/6/16 and 25/5/16
58% of Leavers had made their minds up before the date of the referendum was announced on 20/02/2016
as this chart shows
It is you who needs to check again.
The chart you refer to:
http://conhome.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/4-timeline-by-LR-881x1024.jpg
"Since the beginning of the year." Not "Between 1/1/16 and 20/2/16!"
Edit: Seems the chart won't copy to here; but it's plain for all who follow your or my link to see.
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12 minutes ago, vinny41 said:
remind everyone again Was Nigel the Prime Minister, was Nigel in Government at the time, How many years has Nigel been calling for a referendum
Cameron made it crystal clear
Cameron says no second EU referendum if result is close
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-cameron-idUKKCN0Y81VK
Doesn't change what the man many believe to be responsible for forcing Cameron into calling the referendum in the first place due to his fear of UKIP taking Tory seats said.
Farage said before the vote that Remain needed to win by two thirds to one third or another referendum would be needed. After the vote he said that a 51.89% win for Leave was the end of the matter.
You're making remarks, one of which has been removed by the forum's obscenity filter, about Remainers not accepting the result due to it being so close; yet you accept Farage's hypocrisy.
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14 minutes ago, vinny41 said:
Most leavers that I have spoken with had no issues with a 2nd referendum vote on deal or no deal
so long as a 2nd referendum didn't include any of the options of remaining on a ballot paper
How many are that? 10? 100? 1000? More?
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37 minutes ago, vinny41 said:
If you take the 36% leavers that always knew which way the would vote and the 7% that knew which way they would vote more than a year ago and the 15% that knew how they would vote since the beginning of the year which i read as 01/01/2016 the end result is
58% of Leavers had made their minds up before the date of the referendum was announced on 20/02/2016
As is confirmed on the site, those 15% said that they had decided since the beginning of the year but before the month before the vote ;i.e. not between 1/1/16 and 20/2/16 but between 1/1/16 and 23/5/16.
A full three months longer than you are trying to claim and three months after campaigning had started!
Why do you feel the need to try and fiddle the figures?
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33 minutes ago, vinny41 said:
And Most leavers would have accepted a 2nd referendum on deal or no deal but then we all know that wasn't acceptable to the <deleted> they wan't 3 options
1) Remain
2) deal
3) No deal
they wanted 2nd dibs of the original referendum
"They wanted 2nd dibs of the original referendum."
Just like Farage said he would demand had he lost by a small margin. From the Mirror interview with him linked to above; “In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.”
So it's ok by you for Farage to want a second referendum in the event of a close result, but not Remainers; who you have called an expletive removed by the forum software?
Of course, as said, being the hypocrite that he is, having won with 51.89% of the vote Farage soon changed his mind about the need for a two thirds to one third majority!
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5 hours ago, JonnyF said:
Absolutely right.
I remember hearing we were going to have outbreaks of super gonorrhea.
A warning from the Brexit Health Alliance made in June 2018 on the possible effects of no deal.
In September 2020 they said Deal is best outcome for UK citizens and patients, says Brexit Health Alliance. Still, of course, warning that no deal would cause problems.
As did the The Royal Pharmaceutical Society and, in it's official guidance, the government!
5 hours ago, JonnyF said:Another chapter of Project Fear debunked. Here we are out performing the EU re. the vaccine rollout so badly that they want to put in a hard border in Ireland. So much for caring about the Irish peace process. What a bunch of charlatans. Even the Irish have worked out how they've been played by the EU.
How have you manged to miss the many reports of the EU completely abandoning and disowning this absurd plan by someone in the Commission?
Brexit LIVE: Von der Leyen asked to resign after 'grievous error' by European Commission
QuoteMichael Gove and European Commission Vice President Maros Sefcovic have issued a joint statement after holding emergency talks on the Northern Ireland Protocal.
They said: "Our shared priority is making sure the Protocol works for the people of Northern Ireland, protecting gains of the peace process and avoiding disruption to everyday lives.
"Jointly committed to redoubling our efforts to address outstanding issues."
EU 'fiasco' on N Ireland heaps pressure on Commission
Quote"Misjudgement", "mismanagement", "blunder"... and words that were far, far stronger.
That's what I've been hearing from EU insiders about the European Commission's initial decision on Friday to suspend part of the Brexit deal agreement on Northern Ireland, in its rush to impose restrictions on Covid vaccines, or components of vaccines, exported from the bloc......
"We certainly weren't asked about it," one EU diplomat told me. "If we had been, we would have shouted loudly that it was a terrible idea. The decision was taken, in a hurry, at the top or close to the top [of the Commission]."
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9 hours ago, transam said:
How about this one.......????
https://www.yahoo.com/news/european-union-disgraced-brexit-vindicated-170724124.html
My name is not Cameron Hilditch and I do not write for Yahoo.
If I did, I would not include so many false assumptions in an article as if they were facts!
So how does you link answer my question "There are many posts of mine prior to this one of yours. So which do you mean?"
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14 hours ago, Loiner said:
Eddie Grant 1982.
Who's Eddie Grant? Did you mean Eddy Grant? If so; what is the relevance?
14 hours ago, Loiner said:Why did you invite me to make you shut up?
Why don't you provide the evidence to answer my invite?
Because there is none?
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14 hours ago, Loiner said:
And still a good lad. Somebody has to stand up for the girls.
Nobody else would - Social services, the police, the media, the politicians, the woke and most of all....the apologists wouldn’t. Which are you?
There is nothing which is anywhere close to the truth in that post.
The only 'standing up' he did was in defence of his two EDL mates! Until he changed his mind when the evidence against them was overwhelming and they were convicted.
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^^^^^^
Present as many opinion pieces as you like, @vinny41.
Doesn't change the facts.
I stand by my previous.
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35 minutes ago, vinny41 said:
At least I have accepted the 2016 EU referendum result that was which took place 5 years ago this June, while you are still trying to figure out why you lost
Wrong; again. I accepted the referendum result. But, as I say above, when Parliament could not agree on a withdrawal agreement I joined with those saying we, the people, should be allowed to decide. I hate to quote Noel Edmunds, but; deal or no deal.
I know why Remain lost; the various Leave campaigns presented better arguments than the Remain ones. I have always said that Leave didn't win; Remain lost.
As the events during the negotiations of both the WA and the trade agreement and then since 1st January have shown, the arguments, indeed promises, of the Leave campaigns were mostly false.
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22 hours ago, vinny41 said:
I am sure that if Remain had won by 1 vote they woud have accepted the result is the same way that Tony Blair doesn't have issues about small majorities when it suits him
Tony Blair: I steamrollered devolution for Wales
but the Yes campaign victory in Wales was much closer - a majority of just under 7,000 (0.6%) of more than a million votes cast.
Under the terms of the Act, the result would be decided by 50% plus one vote.
There was a petition on the Government website echoing Farage's remarks "We the undersigned call upon HM Government to implement a rule that if the Remain or Leave vote is less than 60%, based on a turnout less than 75%, there should be another referendum." This was rejected by Cameron and other leading Remain campaigners. There were also extreme doubts over it's validity, with numerous signatures being removed after allegations of fraud. (Source)
The only politician I can find who called for a second referendum in the case of a close result is Farage. Nigel Farage wants second referendum if Remain campaign scrapes narrow win. Of course, he soon changed his tune when the result was announced! Nigel Farage says Leave win marks UK 'independence day'
But remember that calls for a second referendum where for one on whether to accept the terms of the withdrawal agreement or not; coming after Parliament, thanks largely to the shenanigans of Johnson, Rees-Mogg and their mates in the ERG, showed that it couldn't agree.
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22 hours ago, vinny41 said:
read my post again I said the majority of leave and remain voters had already made their minds up before the announcement of a referendum if you remember we have already discussed this with polls going as far back as 2010
57% of Remainers had made their minds up before campaign started
58% of Leavers had made their minds up before campaign started
Odd how Brexiteers are so dismissive of polls whose results they don't care for; but treat those whose results they like as holy writ!
The most common argument provided by Brexiteers for dismissing polls is the relatively small sample size. Well, from your link: "On referendum day I surveyed 12,369 people after they had voted."
12,369 people out of the 33,577,342 who voted; that's just 0.04%!
I am aware, of course, that proper polling organisations also often have similarly low sample sizes in relation to the population. Which is why, as I have often said, the only poll which really counts is that at the ballot box.
22 hours ago, vinny41 said:57% of Remainers had made their minds up before campaign started
58% of Leavers had made their minds up before campaign started
What your link actually says is
QuoteJust under half (43 per cent) of voters said they always knew how they would end up voting or decided more than a year ago. Nearly a quarter (24 per cent) decided in the week before referendum day; and one in ten decided yesterday, or on the day they filled in their postal vote.
It seems, though, that you have added up the figures in his table. But in so doing you have included people who said that they had decided since the beginning of the year but before the month before the vote (i.e. between 1/1/16 and 23/5/16). As the campaigns unofficially began when Cameron announced the referendum on the 20th of February, to include those people in the already decided is less than equitable
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22 hours ago, vinny41 said:
Did you read the article and what Steve Hilton stated
Why the Remain Campaign Lost the Brexit Vote
Speaking to the BBC on Friday morning, Steve Hilton, a former political adviser to Cameron, conceded that the negative campaign, which was dubbed Project Fear, had backfired. Rather than winning people over, it alienated many voters who had legitimate concerns about the E.U. "People have expressed real anger at being ignored by the system, and I think this is at the heart" of what happened, Hilton said.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/why-the-remain-campaign-lost-the-brexit-vote
Hopefully you can understand it 2nd time around
Make your mind up!
You say that Cameron's warning was proof that Leave voters ignored the promises of the Leave campaign and knew that leaving the EU meant leaving the single market and customs union.
Then you say it was dismissed by most as part of the so called project fear!
Then you say Leave voters believed him.
Then you say they dismissed it as part of project fear.
Round and round in circles you go; just like the Oozlum bird; with eventually the same result.
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17 minutes ago, vinny41 said:
Incorrect I posted last year I made my decision well before the announcement of a referendum as did the majority of leave and remainer voters according to polls published
And you are claiming that Leave would have won anyway because enough agreed with you and were not swayed by the campaigns?
On what basis?
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19 minutes ago, vinny41 said:
Why the Remain Campaign Lost the Brexit Vote
Speaking to the BBC on Friday morning, Steve Hilton, a former political adviser to Cameron, conceded that the negative campaign, which was dubbed Project Fear, had backfired. Rather than winning people over, it alienated many voters who had legitimate concerns about the E.U. "People have expressed real anger at being ignored by the system, and I think this is at the heart" of what happened, Hilton said.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/why-the-remain-campaign-lost-the-brexit-vote
There are some people that believe Project Fear from the Remain camp and the back of the queue comment by Obama pushed the undecided to vote leave
I do wonder if there was no campaigning by either side which way the vote would have gone I think it would have still been a close call as the majority of leavers and remainers had already make their minds up on how they would vote
So you are now calling Cameron's warning part of 'Project Fear!'
Make your mind up!
BTW, the result was a close call! 51.89% for and 48.11% against.
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2 minutes ago, vinny41 said:
Ok so your post "Sacking? Up to the Council of Ministers, not an ex member." was just a throwway comment
Yes; and it's also true; as explained to you when you first queried it!
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1 hour ago, katana said:
Wasn't it the remainers who were encouraging everyone in the UK to panic by saying there would be a shortage of medicines in the UK after Brexit?
No.
But the Royal Pharmaceutical Society did warn of possible problems in the event of no deal.
No-deal Brexit may worsen drug shortages, pharmacists warn
See also the Official UK government guidance from August 2020, updated 28th December 2020.
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8 hours ago, transam said:
Like the one above, you mean....? ????
There are many posts of mine prior to this one of yours. So which do you mean?
This one, perhaps
because I dared to mention and be critical of Boris Johnson's threat to renege on his own WA?
The WA he proclaimed as a personal triumph after he used the promise of it to win a General Election!
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18 hours ago, vinny41 said:
And where is the post link or statement that the UK was calling for her sacking there is none
Where have I said that there is?
I made a simple throwaway comment that her future was no longer any concern of ours. But for what increasingly appear to be desperate reasons of your own you have turned that molehill into an Everest!
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8 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:
Thanks for reminding us all once again and especially for the remainers who either pretend it didn't happen or have selective memory.
No doubt this will need explaining again on every related Brexit thread we have.
So you, too, voted Leave based on warnings from the Remain campaign rather than promises from the Leave campaign?
Well, that's two out of 17,410,742!
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18 hours ago, vinny41 said:
A fortnight before the referendum in 2016, then Prime Minister David Cameron (who was campaigning for Remain) said during an interview:
“The British public would be voting if we leave would be to leave the EU and leave the single market. We’d then have to negotiate a trade deal from outside with the European Union... But if we leave the EU and the German finance minister was very clear, you’re either in or you’re out, leaving the single market, you’ve then got to negotiate a trade deal.”
https://fullfact.org/europe/what-was-promised-about-customs-union-referendum/
Yet again, you are saying that sufficient of the undecided were convinced to vote Leave by a warning of a major consequences of leaving by a prominent Remain campaigner!
Makes one wonder why the various Leave campaigns spent so much money advertising their arguments against what Cameron and other Remain campaigners said!
Makes one wonder why Michael Gove, as quoted and proven incorrect in your link, felt compelled to say "There is a free trade zone stretching from Iceland to Turkey that all European nations have access to, regardless of whether they are in or out of the euro or EU. After we vote to leave we will remain in this zone."
To counter Cameron's, and other's, warnings promises were made by Leave campaigners.
These promises by Gove and other leave campaigners that we would retain full access to the single market post Brexit have proven to be false.
Promises of us remaining in a free trade zone, with their associated hints, if not actual promises, of also retaining full access to the customs union, by Leave campaigners have also proven to be false.
Now you may say that you ignored these promises by leave campaigners and voted Leave despite Cameron's warnings; but to claim that sufficient of the undecided did the same is ridiculous.
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13 hours ago, Loiner said:
Yes, you have been given plenty of examples. You simply continue to deny it.
Plenty of examples? Name one.
13 hours ago, Loiner said:I doubt there is anything that could shut you up
On this point; providing a real example of a Brexit benefit would.
13 hours ago, Loiner said:That you are allowed to continue posting here seems to confirm that.
It is not up to you to decide who can and cannot post here nor what posters can and cannot post. But if you believe that any of my posts contravene the forum rules, you know where the report button is.
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13 hours ago, Loiner said:
Love him, but not my hero as I have many others to choose from. Don't you love him too?
A convicted violent thug, fraudster and proven liar?
A man who pretends to care about the victims of child sexual abuse, but has played no part in exposing and bringing to justice anyone guilty of such a crime; instead he has defended two of his mates accused of then convicted of child sex offences?
I cannot understand how anyone can admire, let alone love, such a person.
UK set to formally apply for trans-Pacific trade bloc membership
in World News
Posted
The poll, as your link says, was conducted on the day of the referendum itself; asking people after they had voted.
As can be seen; the table says 15% of Leavers, and 13% of Remainers, had made up their minds "since the beginning of the year."
Not between the beginning of the year and the referendum being announced!
As the next category is "In the last month" it is fair to assume that those in the "since the beginning of the year" category made their decision before the 23rd May; one month before the vote.
Deny it all you like; but your own link proves you wrong!