7by7

As a point of interest only, the bottom line on this at the moment is that the appellant's ( Chanti's) husband will have to learn enough English to enable him to pass the A1 level test. But, assuming the proposed new changes to Family Migration are introduced shortly, then he may well find that he will be required to pass the test at A2 level ! Even more worrying is that, if the minimum income level proposal ( discussed in a different thread) is also introduced, then I doubt if he will ever get a visa. I don't know for sure, but I doubt if his wife, and sponsor, is earning the required ( if introduced ) minimum of 18,500 GBP a year. It does seem as if the government is somehow punishing spouses and partners in the grand scheme of family migration to the UK.

We British folk who were outraged with the policies of 13 years of a Labour admin, hopefully never to see the like of again, are looking to a new government to deal with many issues, Immigration,being one,

My understanding is the English requirement for spouses applying for settlement was a stated policy of the last, Labour, government. The coalition simply adopted the policy and introduced it earlier than Labour planned to.

Whilst the proposed income level for sponsors is an important subject, this topic is about the English requirement. Please stay on topic.

There is no need that I am aware of for her to write a covering letter; although you as sponsor should do so.

Your document list is a bit long:

mortgage doc., land registry doc You need to show ownership of the property and either one of these will do, no need for both.

Council tax doc., home ins doc Not needed.

6 month wage slips, letter from company accountant Are you employed or self employed? If employed your payslips are fine, no need for any letter from an accountant. If self employed then where do the pay slips come from?

letter from parents Not needed unless you will be living with them.

Utility bills Not needed

photographs of home interior Not strictly necessary, although many people like to include them as evidence that the accommodation is suitable.

You need to provide evidence that she has been in regular communication with the child and her carers; making all the major decisions regarding the child's welfare, education etc. If you or your wife have been sending money for the child's support then provide evidence of this.

See the sole responsibility link I provided earlier.

Having a baby together is a commitment; so is marriage. If one is not yet ready for the latter, can one be ready for the former?

Personal view.

Closed at the request of the OP.

A nonsense post has been deleted.

Sensible, on topic posts only, please.

Whilst I can see the reason for an initial English test, the standard is so low I do have to wonder if it has any real benefit to the applicant.

The current KOL requirement for ILR does mean that an applicant for ILR has some English ability; but as TVE says there are people who don't take this, they simply apply again and again for FLR. Given the cost of making an FLR application every two years I have to wonder why.

Also, KOL can be satisfied by improving one level on an ESOL with citizenship course; this could be from no English to entry level 1; not a particularly high standard.

Better, I think, to make everyone pass an English test at a reasonable level, say entry level 3, before applying for ILR or FLR*. If this means they have to spend two years on an English course, so be it.

*I should add that those applying for FLR after entering as a fiance or prospective civil partner would be exempt from this for their first FLR application after the marriage or civil partnership.

Will members kindly restrict future posts in this topic to the effects, if any, of this judgment and other relevant matters.

An off topic post has been deleted.

Applications in Thailand must be completed online; you can do this. The form must then be printed, signed and taken to the UKVAC for submission along with the supporting documents, where the child's biometrics will be taken. Her grand parents can take her to do this.

As the applicant is under 18 the form should be signed by a parent or legal guardian. So your wife should sign it and then send it to her parents along with the supporting documents. Unless the grand parents are legal guardians, in which case they can sign it.

As the child is under 11 she will not need a TB test or certificate.

Obviously you will need to submit evidence that you can adequately support and maintain the child without recourse to public funds; although once she is in the UK you will be able to claim child benefit for her and, if qualified, tax credits.

For more details of how and where to apply, fees etc. see UK Border Agency in Thailand.

You should have a good read of SET07 - Children, paying particular attention to SET7.8 What is sole responsibility?

You may find this current topic of interest.

Introducing fee charges for appeals in the Immigration & Asylum Chamber of the First-tier Tribunal

Send the children to an EU school for six months and move them to England under the EU rights act!!!! done and dusted and very simple

They are not EEA citizens, so would need the appropriate visa from which ever country they were sent to school in.

That they have been living in an EEA state does not necessarily mean they can then move to the UK using the EEA regulations. To be able to do so the OP would need to have been living and working in that state with his wife and the children and now be returning to live in the UK. See EUN2.14 Can family members of British citizens qualify for an EEA family permit? ('Surinder Singh' cases)

I know absolutely nothing about this subject, but would adopting them help with Visas ?

Inter country adoption is a very complex and lengthy process and would not help. See SET7.18 How do adopted children qualify for settlement? and immigration rules, paras 309A to 316F

I wouldn't bother Samran; the man is obviously oblivious to the self contradictory nature of his posts. Maybe he should have a native English speaker check them for him before he hits the 'Post' button

For example

My post has nothing to do with the NHS or any other medical matter

Anyway; we are again wandering well off topic.

Will members kindly restrict future posts in this topic to the effects, if any, of this judgment and other relevant matters.

To qualify as unmarried partners they need to have been living outside the UK in a relationship akin to marriage for at least the last two years

can we apply for this whole process as unmarried partners or does this only apply if we have lived together outside the uk for 2 years as partners

My apologies, according to Para 295A(i)(a)(i) of the immigration rules the parties do not need to have been living together outside the UK; I was mixing this up with the requirement for ILE.

However, they do need to have been living together in a relationship akin to marriage for at least the last two years, and whilst time spent living together in the UK while she is here as a visitor will count and short periods apart, e.g. for work, are allowed, if for most of the last two years she has been living in Thailand and you in the UK then I'm afraid that you don't qualify as unmarried partners.

i just dont see why we have to marry just to satisfy the uk border rules .. if we have to get married then we will .. id rather get married when the time is right maybe in a couple of years

Because the rules say that unless she satisfies the unmarried partner rules, marriage is the only way she can settle in the UK as your partner.

If the time is not yet right for marriage, what on earth are you doing having a baby together!?

Alternatively, if she is in the UK as a general visitor whilst she can't undertake a course of study, she can take an exam.

It would probably be both simpler and cheaper for her to take the A1 test in the UK if she is there anyway.

I am fairly sure that, like a UK visa, the country she applies to will want to take her biometrics. So she wouldn't just have to send her passport, she'd have to cut off and send her hand, too!

Student visitors and the links from there should tell you most of what you need to know.

I dont think there is a minimum number of study hours she is required to meet when enrolling on a course, Unlike the 'General Visitor' which is 15 hours.study per week I believe?

I'm not sure, either. But the educational institution who accept her onto one of their courses should be able to confirm. remember, she has to have been accepted onto a course before she applies for the visa.

Someone in the UK with a general visit visa cannot study at all.

The Student Visitor Visa can run for 6 months with an extension of upto 11 months, when applying for the extension this can not be done whilst she is in the UK?

As far as I'm aware, the visa will be valid for however long the course is. If the course runs for 6 months, the visa will be valid for 6 months; if it runs for 11 months it will be valid for 11 months. I do not believe that it can be extended and she will have to leave the UK when it expires.

And finally, is the Student Visitor Visa classed as a different Immigration Category than the Visitor Visa?? In that case I may need to wait until she has been out of the UK for approx 6 months??

It is, as the name suggests, a visit visa, and the rules covering the issue of student visit visas are in Part 2 of the immigration rules, Persons seeking to enter or remain in the United Kingdom for visits.

However, there is no requirement for a visitor to spend any minimum time out of the UK between visits, let alone 6 months. There is, though, a convention that a visitor should not normally spend more than 6 months out of any 12 in the UK; unless they have and acceptable reason for doing so. In your girlfriends case, I would say that she has such a reason.

Having said all of that, why do it at all?

You say that it is your intention for her to apply for settlement. The standard of English required to meet the A1 level is very low; basic conversational English. If she can hold a conversation in English with you then she will have no trouble meeting this.

My advice would be to save the course fees and student visit visa fees and airfares and have her take the test in Thailand.

I was about to go to sleep. I only read the first few paras: "Visitors to the UK cannot access any NHS treatment, except basic initial emergency care in an A&E department. Are you seriously suggesting that most these women came to the UK as visitors to give birth in private hospitals?"

Umm, something for you to think about whilst I am sleeping, my comment was based on an understanding that RAZZELS's comment is: 24.6% of the kid's mothers are non-UK. To which my reply was, do they have a link to the UK - to which the unaswered question's answer is probably YES! So, before you shoot me in the foot, please read the thread from the start, and in my absence please feel free to post as many questions as you want! I will try to answer them soon!

The point Razz was making is obvious to all, except someone who wishes to try and impress with knowledge he doesn't have or someone who does not speak English as a first language.

Your question about whether they were visitors or 'have a link to the UK' is redundant. Anyone with the knowledge of UK immigration which you claim knows the answer. Of course they do, they are settled or otherwise resident in the UK, visitors cannot give birth in an NHS hospital; unless they do so as a private patient.

Having been corrected on that, you are yet again attempting to persuade people that you actually said something different!

I have no wish nor need to shoot you in the foot; you do so yourself so often!

BTW, what is your first language? The more you post the more obvious it becomes that it isn't English.

As this thread has deteriorated into exchanging childish insults; closed.

For instance, this sentence of yours makes no sense whatsoever to me :

24.6% of foreign born mothers who are on tourist visas or who have a connection to the UK? That should answer the question.

My sentence follows on from RAZZELL's "24.6% of babies are children of foreign born mothers." Thus, it does make sense.

Regardless of whether it is grammatically correct or not; the sentence does not make any sense at all.

Visitors to the UK cannot access any NHS treatment, except basic initial emergency care in an A&E department. Are you seriously suggesting that most these women came to the UK as visitors to give birth in private hospitals?

Your population density point is spurious. Yes, there are many areas where the UK population density is low, sometimes so low it cannot be measured. For example the Lake District, North Yorkshire Moors, Scottish Highlands. Are you seriously suggesting that these areas should be concreted over to provide more room for immigrants?

As for the court ruling; other European countries have had similar requirements for years; Denmark being one, I believe. I haven't time to check, but I am sure someone wishing to immigrate into one of these countries would have already challenged the rule up to the European court; without success.

I really cannot understand why anyone would wish to bring their wife 6000 miles from home and have her isolated in the house unable to communicate with neighbours, go shopping, find a job etc. Maybe the requirement at the initial visa stage is not necessary and the KOL requirement for ILR is sufficient; but without any language requirement many spousal immigrants, usually women, were so isolated or at best confined to ghettos.

Is that really what you want?

Boy or girlfriend is not classed as a family member under the Schengen rules. Unmarried partners are, but different states have different definitions of this.

But; from your previous posts it appears that she is in the UK as a visitor. If so, save yourself a trip. Schengen visas have to be applied for in the applicant's country of residence. If she is in the UK as a visitor any application she makes in the UK for a Schengen visa will be refused.

Nonsense post deleted.

Moved to Thai visas.

I am a firm believer that a child should be with a parent if that is possible..........

As am I. However, as I'm sure you appreciate, for a variety of reasons it is not always possible for mother and child to emigrate together; usually because of finance and/or accommodation issues.

My step-son did not come to the UK when his mother and sister did; partly due to accommodation issues, which could have been fixed, but also because he was 17 and in his last year of high school with a university place virtually secured. After much discussion we decided it was better for him to remain in Thailand and finish his education rather than move to the UK and a different education system in a foreign language. His sister was 10, and settled into a UK state school very well; mainly due to the excellence of the head and other teachers at her initial school.

My wife missed her son terribly; still does. Eleven years later he is married, but still her little boy and she still phones him nearly every day.

From what he has said, his finances, the children's ages etc., none of this was a consideration in the OP's case. For the life of me I cannot understand why he and his wife have waited over five years before applying for settlement for the children; and appear to be doing so now only because their current carer is to old and frail to continue caring for them.

But, he no doubt has what he considers to be valid reasons for following that path.

A truly sympathetic immigration system would allow parents to base these decisions on what they decide is best for the child. The one we are struggling with is a system that looks for reasons to reject.rather than reasons to approve.

Whether an immigration system should be 'sympathetic' or based on law is a matter for a larger debate than is appropriate in this topic; as is whether 'we' are 'struggling' with the system or not.

ECOs do not look for reasons to reject; they look to see whether or not the application meets the requirements of the immigration rules. If it does; granted. To make this judgement they look at all the relevant circumstances, using evidence supplied by the applicant and/or sponsor, and each case is judged on it's own merits.

For child settlement, sole responsibility is a, if not the, major requirement. If parent and child have been living together and are applying together, sole responsibility is very easy to show. But if they have been separated it becomes harder; and the longer the separation the harder it becomes.

Ralphsilver, best of luck with these applications; take nothing for granted and ensure that you have anticipated all possible questions or doubts the ECO may have and answered them in the application or supporting documents.

I am sure that I read somewhere (here?) that they can use their British passports to enter the UK even though their British passports have expired; they are British citizens and so have the right to enter the UK any time they wish..

Might be an idea to check and possibly save two visa fees.

Having a professional check over the application is always a help, of course. However............

There is no British embassy in London! If you mean someone at the Home Office then, with respect, unless that person has experience in entry clearance his advice only has as much worth as that of anyone here. To be frank, less than someone like VisaPlus who has worked as an Entry Clearance Officer.

The ECO will make their decision based upon the requirements of the immigration rules, para 297(e) being the most relevant here, using the guidance linked to earlier to aid them.

Affidavits, even from senior police officers, will carry little weight if the requirements of the rules are not met.

From what you have said, para 297(f), quoted by VisaPlus above, applies here; but you must provide compelling evidence that it does. If you don't, all the affidavits in the world wont help.

They must put the children first, and formost imho

No, they must, as already said, judge the application on it's merits. If it meets the requirements of the rules; fine. If not, they wont issue a visa.

Playing devils advocate for a moment; if the interests of the children are primary to you, one does have to wonder why you have waited for five years before considering having them live with you. Indeed, it seems from what you have said that you are only considering it now because of their current carer's, your wife's aunt, increasing age and frailty!

That may seem harsh, but I am sure similar thoughts will be in the ECO's mind; you need to deal with such doubts before they occur!