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Posts posted by 7by7
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Some people are entitled to claim and receive certain public funds, others aren't. It depends on the persons circumstances and eligibility..
I fail to see what human rights have to do with it. Are you saying that because my disabled nephew gets a motability allowance and I don't that is an abuse of my human rights!?
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Visas and migration to other countries is not really the right forum, so I'm moving it to Families and children.
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I would say at most another 7 months, rather than at least. However, the decision is yours.
The only agencies I have any confidence in are Thai Visa Express and Visa Plus; both of whom are sponsors of this forum and can be contacted by PM or clicking on their ads.
N.B.
I am not recommending them because they are sponsors, but because I know them and know that they are both professional and competent.
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If you have full ILE, i.e. not subject to KOL, or ILR then the prohibition on public funds no longer applies.
If you are subject to immigration time restrictions, e.g. have ILE subject to KOL or a standard settlement visa, then you are prohibited from claiming most public funds.
However; tax credits must be claimed jointly by a married couple. So not only can someone subject to immigration time restrictions be included in their spouse's tax credit claim; they must be.
By child support, I assume you mean child benefit. There is some confusion over whether a person in the UK as the spouse of a British citizen can claim child benefit or not; the guidance is not clear. However, one thing is certain; their British spouse can. What is more they can claim for all the children in the family unit, even if those children are from their partner's previous relationship(s) and themselves subject to immigration time restrictions.
The British partner can claim any and all public funds to which they are entitled, including housing benefits. However, they cannot claim any extra due to their immigrant spouse/partner and any immigrant children living with them.
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One post deleted as machine code errors made it unreadable. It did, however, appear to be about a Thai visa! If so, not only is this the wrong topic, it's the wrong forum. Please repost in the Thai Visa forum.
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Firstly, it is not the UKBA who decide appeals; it is the First-tier Tribunal (Immigration and Asylum Chamber) who are part of HM Courts and Tribunals Service and independent of the UKBA.
Secondly, as said to you before, there is no reason why your wife cannot submit a new settlement application while waiting for her appeal to be heard, simply withdrawing the one if the other is successful. Therefore I would recommend that you do not withdraw the appeal; especially as you have decided to wait for a few months before submitting the second application; the appeal decision may come first.
Sorry for the confusion which caused me to repeat myself to you.
Hopefully the final paragraph of my previous will mean in future people will stick to the topic and such confusion will not arise again!
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what about this killer from Mr Kilminster,
Indeed. His playing was a bit, shall we say, subtler in his Hawkwind days!
Two takes on a classic.
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The UK is not part of the Schengen area, so the Schengen rules do not apply. The UK is part of the EEA, so the EEA freedom of movement regulations do. These regulations have already been done to death in this thread; go back and read the relevant posts.
The OP's wife did apply for settlement and was refused. Her visit application was made after this refusal and while she is waiting for her appeal to be heard. This was refused on 'reason to return' grounds as stated by the OP.
There have been a lot of posts here which are of absolutely no use to the OP and have little to do with UK spouse settlement. Will posters in future please stick to UK immigration advice to the OP and if they wish to discuss Schengen visas, asylum, Swiss or Thai family immigration etc. do so elsewhere.
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Well, dear 7by7, I was writing this, because the Swiss law about legal foreign marriages says the same...
And, 7by7, sorry if I missed some of the posts, but please look back and take note that I replied to ths posts of swisstouristpattaya and beano2274 who wrote "Get married and try taking your THAI wife to Switzerland, then you will see how difficult it is."
Read my post again. It was made in response to you saying "I assume the OP has the main problem to have his marriage recognized under UK law.....". I thought this was obvious as that is the only part of your post that I quoted; obviously I was wrong!
I should point out that Swiss immigration law etc. is completely irrelevant here. The OP wants his wife to join him in the UK; not Switzerland!
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I had a good job with decent savings which allowed me to live comfortably out in Thailand for 9 months.
I presumed I would never have a problem getting a visa for my wife, because of that,
As explained to you before; the problem is that you had a good job with decent savings. The ECO when considering the initial application was not (and the tribunal when considering the appeal will not be) interested in what you had before, but what you financial position was at the time of the application. You may very well have had a good job with decent savings before going to Thailand, but if that job had gone and all your savings been used while staying in Thailand; how would you support your family once in the UK? This is the question the ECO had to consider (and what the tribunal will consider).
From what you have posted before, both here and in your other topics, it appears that you may very well have had sufficient finances to meet the maintenance requirement, but failed to show that you did.
In one of your other topics you were asked if you could post a copy of the refusal notice (deleting all names and other identifying information, of course), which you have not done. To be honest, without knowing exactly what the refusal notice says and the exact reasons given by the ECO for the refusal all anyone here can do is give you general advice; advice which may not be specific to your actual situation.
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So - without knowing the details - I assume the OP has the main problem to have his marriage recognized under UK law, after that, he could sue any VISA refusal for his wife as violation of EHRC which the UK also recognizes.
His marriage is recognised under UK law. The Foreign Marriages Act of 1892 (yes 1892) says that any marriage which is recognised as legal in the country where it took place is also recognised as legal in the UK.
You say "without knowing the details." I suggest that you read through the topic, especially Kobrien's posts, properly. Doing so will show you that the problem is a financial one; nothing to do with the validity of his marriage in the UK.
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A nonsense post and responses to it have been deleted.
Final warning; if you have nothing to say, say nothing!
If I have to delete or edit out any more rubbish the poster concerned will face a long posting holiday.
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As you mention Article 8 is valid. I would personally start by using protocol 2 "Article 2 provides for the right not to be denied an education and the right for parents to have their children educated in accordance with their religious and other views." By failing to grant entry to the UK, the child's education suffers and parents views are not respected). The formative years (that includes the child's surroundings) have a big impact on the future success (much evidence exists). By failing to grant entry, the ECO is in breach of this!
Then I would use Protocol 1 where the family is not allowed to enjoy one's possessions in the UK as one is not allowed entry. This case would be made out that as it is a family unit, by failing to grant 1 or more members entry, the family unit is unable to enjoy the possessions. Such possessions also include public property e.g. parks, schools, community centeres etc! Although, it generally is private property - there is a good case in support of public property esp. in the UK.
Then I would use Article 12 and Article 8 but make a valid case.
I see your point. However, the fact is that human rights are not a consideration here, (whatever may be the case in Switzerland, Swiss1960!)
To be honest, I cannot be bothered to do the large amount of research necessary, but I am sure that the human rights argument has been used to challenge a UK visa refusal in the past all the way up to the European court, and failed. If it had succeeded we would not be having this discussion!
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Microsoft translator comes up with:-
The Declaration of commitment (formerly warranty) is an official document which is issued exclusively by the Swiss representations after submitting a visa application (unless a guarantee necessary is considered to be).Thus, we have no pattern. May be, the competent Swiss representation can help you.The letter of invitation, which may also be required, is written by the host in the Switzerland and is informal, but the purpose should, duration of stay and contain information about who comes up for the stay in the Switzerland.
The forum rules do say "English is the only acceptable language, except within the Thai language forum, where of course using Thai is allowed." but on this occasion an exception can be made.
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As said in that other topic and in the opening post of this one; if you meet all the requirements for ILE except KOL then you will be issued ILE subject to KOL. This will be valid for 27 months. Once in the UK you have until the visa expires to satisfy KOL, either by passing the LitUK test or by progressing one stage in an ESOL with citizenship course at an approved educational establishment. See Demonstrating your knowledge of language and life in the UK. Once you have done this then you can apply for ILR without having to satisfy the 24 months residency requirement.
You will still have to satisfy the A1 English speaking and listening requirement before submitting a settlement visa application as a spouse or partner and submit the certificate for this with the application.
Whether taking the test or a course, the KOL requirement can only be satisfied in the UK. Most, if not all, local further education colleges in the UK offer ESOL with citizenship courses, so you should contact one convenient to you. Make sure that it is the right course, though; it must contain citizenship materials or it wont satisfy KOL. Sometimes such a course is called ESOL with skills for life.
A visitor to the UK can take the LitUK test while there; but a visitor cannot undertake a course of study so cannot attend an ESOL with citizenship course. Once passed, the LitUK test is valid for life, so if you have passed it on a previous visit and meet all the other requirements then you will be issued full ILE. This is also valid for 27 months. However, this is the date it must be 'activated' by first entering the UK. Once you have done that it will not expire and you will not need to make any further applications unless you wish to apply for British citizenship.
Note, though, that both ILE and ILR will lapse if the holder spends a continuous period of two or more years outside the UK and they can be canceled if it becomes apparent that the holder is actually living outside the UK and using their indefinite leave merely for visits.
There is some confusion over whether or not someone who has passed the LitUK test also needs an A1 certificate when applying for settlement as a spouse or partner. As the LitUK test does not include speaking and listening, one argument is that they do; but as it is a lot harder than the basic A1 test another argument is that they don't. I have in the past tried to get a definitive answer to this from the UKBA, without success. Therefore my feeling is that even if you have passed the LitUK test then you should also take the A1 test in speaking and listening (or acceptable equivalent) as the cost of doing so will be a lot less than the cost of a failed settlement application.
Finally, it is the applicant's responsibility to make sure that they show they meet the criteria for ILE. If the applicant doesn't do so then, assuming the usual criteria are met, they will be issued with a standard 27 month spouse or partner visa.
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Yes, self employment is exercising an economic treaty right. As is job seeking or setting up a business. My point was that a UK citizen who merely lives in another EEA state with his non EEA family member without actually exercising an economic treaty right cannot then use the EEA regulations to bring their non EEA family to the UK.
Article 8 deals with the right to family life as well as privacy. Which protocol(s) would you quote? Refusal notices in family categories usually say the applicant and sponsor's human rights have been considered but do not apply.
I posted about a second settlement application as the matter was raised by the OP, both in this thread and his previous ones.
Payments to HMRC, whether through PAYE or SA are not an issue; proving his financial position is. Remember that his financial position now will have no effect on his wife's appeal; it is his financial position at the time of the original settlement application that counts. As I explained earlier, the appeal tribunal will consider whether or not the refusal was correct based upon the OP and his wife's circumstances at the time. Any change in those circumstances in the mean time, such as an increase in income, will not be considered by the tribunal.
Indefinite Leave to Enter, not Indefinite Leave to Remain. ILE is issued outside the UK, ILR within. You are correct that the knowledge of life and language in the UK (KOL) requirement can only be satisfied in the UK. But the LitUK test can be taken while someone is in the UK as a visitor, though an ESOL with citizenship course could not as visitors are not allowed to undertake a course of study. If an applicant meets all the criteria for ILE except KOL then they will be issued ILE subject to KOL and can apply for ILR immediately they have satisfied KOL without having to be resident in the UK for 24 months. See Uk Settlement; Spouse Visa Or Ile? Have you been married for 4 years or more? for more on this.
N.B.
That thread is over a year old, the original post 2 years old. Some of the links may now be out of date, as may some of the minor points and information. The main points are still valid, though.
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I think, but am not sure, that if a German citizen becomes a citizen of another country through naturalisation then they should obtain permission from the German government or renounce their German nationality and if they become German through naturalisation then they should renounce their other nationality; unless the laws of the other country forbid renunciation of citizenship.
If a German citizen has dual nationality through birth then that is not a problem.
My daughter's boyfriend has German nationality because his mother is German and Sri Lankan nationality because his father is Sri Lankan. If they marry and have kids, then those kids will have four nationalities; British, German, Sri Lankan and Thai!
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As a British citizen you obviously have the right to live and work in the UK.
Your boyfriend is unlikely, from what you have said, to get a work visa of any kind for the UK in his own right. However, he could apply for settlement in the UK to be with you.
How long have you been together? If living together outside the UK for a continuous period of two years or more he could apply as your unmarried partner and he would be able to work immediately. See SET05 - Unmarried and same-sex partners.
If you haven't been together that long then you could marry and he applies as your spouse. Again he could work immediately. See SET03 - Spouses.
I would forget about a fiancé visa; not only is it more expensive than either of the above as there is an extra application to make once you are married, but also as a fiancé he could not work until after the marriage and he has Further Leave to Remain. See SET01 - Fiancé(e)s.
Whichever one you choose, if any, you would need to show that you can support and accommodate yourselves in the UK without resort to public funds. See Maintenance and accommodation (MAA).
Alternatively, as an EEA national you have the right to live and work in any other EEA state and have your non EEA national family join you. He would also be able to work. Unmarried partners do qualify, but different EEA states have their own definition of what constitutes an unmarried partner; it would be simpler were you married.
One huge advantage of living in another EEA state is that his entry clearance would be free, but if you and he come to the UK he will have to pay.
Different EEA states have their own procedures for applying for this; in the UK it is known as an EEA family permit. However, the regulations are the same for all member states, EUN02 - EEA Family permits is the UK's procedure, but if you decide to follow this route then you should check with the country concerned for theirs.
Can't help you with countries outside the EEA, I'm afraid.
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I think this one is better; a great guitarist; one of the best.
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What I know about USA visas could be written on the back of a postage stamp; with room to spare!
However, I imagine that her being legally resident in the UK will make the process a bit easier than if she were resident in Thailand.
She is resident; i.e. in the UK with a settlement visa of some sort?
Have a look at the US embassy, London.
Remember to check for yourself; you may need a visa, too.
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Kobrien, if the income from your current employment is sufficient to support you and your family then there is no need to take another job; unless you wish to. There is currently no minimum income required, but the courts have ruled that it would be inappropriate for an immigrant couple to have an income of less than the income support level for a British family of the same size (about £115 per week for a couple).
Your problem, as I understand it, is not that you don't have enough income but that you failed to show any proof of your current income. This is what you need to address. Submitting two year old bank statements, as you did with the initial application, does not show the current position. You need at least the last three months, the last 6 would be better.
I am confused over your employment status. You work for your sister; as an employee or on a self employed contract? If an employee she must be giving you regular payslips, so submit them. If self employed then submit whatever documentary evidence you have of the payments you receive from her; those you are keeping for when you complete your SA return.
As has been said to you before, there is no reason why you, or rather your wife, cannot submit another settlement application while waiting for her appeal to be heard. But, as with the appeal, you must address every aspect of her previous settlement refusal or it will only be refused again.
If this second application is successful before the appeal hearing then you simply withdraw the appeal, and vice versa. Remember, though, that if her appeal is heard and successful before the second application is decided and you withdraw that application, you wont get the fee back.
I don't know if you have read Maintenance and accommodation (MAA); you may find it helpful.
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Some posters have misunderstood the problem; there is, from what Kobrien has posted here and elsewhere, no doubt in the ECO's mind about the relationship. It is the financial side that is the problem.
Being together for 4 years or more does not effect the situation. If living together outside the UK for at least 4 years, then she may qualify for a slightly different visa, ILE rather than a 27 month one, but would still have to satisfy all the settlement criteria.
Article 8 of the European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms is a qualified right
Article 8 – Right to respect for private and family life 1. Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence.2. There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.
A signatory country's immigration rules fall under the exception.
Exercising an economic treaty right in another EEA country does mean that his wife could join him there under the EEA regulations (without having to leave every 90 days!) and then after an unspecified time they could use the same EEA regulations to move to the UK. However, he would have to be actually exercising an economic treaty right, not just setting up camp in Calais for a couple of weeks, and show that he and his family have the funds to support themselves while there. Ditto upon moving back to the UK.
Comments about the British government not liking Thais and preferring Muslims are, obviously, utter rubbish. The success rate in Thailand for all categories of visa, including settlement, is consistently above 90%.
Another off topic post has been deleted. Next one gets a warning and a posting holiday.
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Does the settlement visa need to be applied for once they are married due to them only being long term partners not married. Or can you apply for settlement even though they are not married.
To qualify as unmarried partners they need to have been living outside the UK in a relationship akin to marriage for at least the last two years.
They could, if they have the time, marry in the UK, but she would still need to return to Thailand to apply for settlement.
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One post deleted; keep things on topic.
Uk Settlement; Spouse Visa Or Ile?
in Visas and migration to other countries
Posted
I really do not see your point. Each member state has it's own benefits system; some are better than others.
Whatever the system, there are criteria laid down by which the relevant authorities judge whether a claimant is entitled to those benefits or not.
If a claimant doesn't meet those criteria, they don't get the benefit.
One of the criteria for receiving most benefits in the UK is that the claimant is not subject to immigration control or time restrictions. As far as I am aware most, if not all, EEA states have a similar rule.
How you can consider that this is an infringement of their human rights is beyond me.
However, this is a topic about Indefinite Leave to Enter the UK as a spouse or partner. It is not a topic about the European Convention on Human Rights. On topic posts only in future, please. If you wish to discuss the ECHR and how it affects immigrants and a signatory country's immigration law, start a new topic.