thaiwanderer

I think you should question more things about this guy,maybe get this guy to check her story out before you go down the very expensive lawyer route.

http://www.thaiprivateeye.com/about_thai_p...e_thailand.html

Isnt this a guy who does investigations on beverage worker stuff. Id go with expensive american lawyer route. At least you wont be paying for nonsense.

questionable

.......

Penniless, Mr Burrowes was finally bought an air ticket home by an anonymous Thai benefactor, but when he tried to catch the flight on Friday afternoon he was again foiled by inadequate paperwork – he didn't understand that he needed to get a police report and then have his visa renewed at the Phuket Immigration Office in Phuket City, some 50 kilometers away, before he could be allowed to leave.

.......

Considering the typical pro-active attitude of the average Thai, I guess nobody explained to him that he needed these papers..... Or even worse, they did not tell him on purpose.

I wish Mr. Burrowes all the best, esp since he even lost his job and house over this (according to the PG).

Land of Stupidity

his or theirs?

in his position i would have ensured as far as is possible all eventualities covered - appears he did not consider the expired visa stamp in his passport which even without his recent experiences would be a red flag to check it out

sarcasm from SB, say it ain't so !

This time (believe it, or, not) no sarcasm. I mean every word.

It's inevitable. Too many businesses fighting for market share in a shrinking market results in fierce competion and/or bancruptcies.

But Thai logic is, put prices up to compensate for the loss of customers...ists a sad fact but true.....if anything prices will increase

accept your point generally but would draw a distinction between Lersuang and THAI logic

not clear whether the OP buying off plan or this is a resale?

IMHO

if (for whatever reason) a farang 'buys' a condo that exceeds the foreign quota officially this cannot be registered in their name - obviously you do not want to part with cash without being sure - depending on the circumstances above its a matter for the contract with the developer (if off plan) or (if a resale) ascertaining with the condo juristic person first then the land office (i hope the OP is not carrying out 'due dilligence' him/herself - if OP is, this might explain the land office officials face saving response) - the real estate agent or anyone else's opinion on foreign quota should only be relied upon in choosing which condos to begin looking into

it is possible for a farang to be incorrectly registered as owner of a unit when that ownership exceeds the quota - hence on a resale it is not totally safe to rely on the fact that the farang seller is registered as the owner

technically if a farang is incorrectly registered as owner in such circumstances they have to (rather 'should') sell to a Thai jursitc person (natural Thai person or corporate identity)

here and generally (not just condos) there is NO recourse IF the land office provides any information or documents that are not correct (whether intentionally or inadvertently correct or where they subsequently find that the information eg. title was incorrectly issued) - that of course does not mean checks at the land office should not be made or that they should not be relied upon to a certain extent BUT if the 'competent official' is subsequently found not to have been competent or made an error for whatever reason there is no come back (something just to be aware of)

you to join TV and defend them with your first post

If you would check better you would see that I didnt just join!

----please accept my massive apologies you joined as long ago as 22nd feb and waited until this thread to make your first post, which was in defence lersuang and the phuket gazette

probably because THEY DIDN'T EVEN TRY TO CONTACT LERSUANG!!!

you know this for a fact do you? I assume you will be equally sceptical of the reporting standards of the Gazette?

As I said I am a close friend and what have the Gazette done wrong???? They did contact them after all!

----so you do know this as a fact (must also be a friend of the mirror then by your reasoning of knowledge and facts).

The Gazette published a half hearted 'rebuttal' that was essentially a holding article 'until next week' even though they had spoken with lersuang already. As I said earlier why the need for a special report to clear things up - oh i forgot its 'complex' according to you.

what do you mean by sweat pea....????

------sweetpea is a member of another forum who like you magically leapt to lersuang's defence for purely altruisitc reasons - oh to have friends like these

its not up to me to defend them, im sure they can defend theirselves... Id keep this clean if I was you otherwise the post will be removed by the gazette. I dont think they want their story here before people have read it!

I too am interested in this threat. I have kept this clean (hence my stated refusal to post unsubstantiated speculation - unlike you). Are you 'friends' with the Gazette also and can therefore (by your reasoning) state this as FACT.

So what about the other comments I raised in response to your first post seeing as you know the facts so well and are keen to rebutt any possiblility lersuang are at fault?

(I am particularly interested in the 'just shareholders' comment - can we expect lersuang to say they aren't responsible for the problems in HHCC (if their are any) and its not just a misunderstanding and or they are in dispute themselves with 'other shareholders' who are the real baddies )

I would love to hear your response however 'complex' it all is (seems pretty simple to me).

"SIMON BURROWES is to be held in detention at Immigration HQ in Phuket City overnight and will be placed on a flight for Singapore at 5pm tomorrow, Phuketwan has learned. The decision on what to do with the British holidaymaker, caught in a visa and passport nightmare, was made late today."

Is he flying SQ, so he is routed through Singapore for a UK connection right???

from my reading of the reports the flight to singapore is merely so no official need accompany him to bangkok

iiuc it is not a connecting flight

of course anything can happen between now and then and reports have known to be wrong in the past and throw SB in the mix aswell - who knows?

As a very close friend of the Lersuang group and a buyer of one of their homes, I will answer this for them (hope they dont mind). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

i will take you on your word that that is the extent of your connections with them and sufficiently motivates you to join TV and defend them with your first post

from what I have heard The Phuket Gazette contacted Lersuang late last week, they spoke over the telephone and Lersuang answered their questions although, they decided to do a face to face interview to get out the full story to everyone and to show proof of any of the answers to the phuket gazette, the interview didn't take place until earlier on this week (I believe it has already been done), the reason being is that the story is quite complex

sure - has a single brick been laid, will any ever be laid, is HHCC and or lersuang solvent and viable moving forward, can and will investors receive refunds and or additional compensation ad infinitum? So many issues

as everything in the Mirror has been totaly fabricated

everything? so buyers are happily in situ in what they bought?

probably because THEY DIDN'T EVEN TRY TO CONTACT LERSUANG!!!

you know this for a fact do you? I assume you will be equally sceptical of the reporting standards of the Gazette?

(hence the phuket gazette saying one side story!) In fact Lersuang didn't know anything about the article until it came out! I dont think that the mirror even contacted Joe Cole as it doesn't say they did, it was more than likely a story built up by angry buyers and investors, who dont actually know the truth.

I imagine at the very least they know whether they have received what was promised

(which unfortunately is Lersuangs fault for not putting it straight in the first place, but im sure they have their reasons

I’m sure they have their reasons too

and hopefully all will tell in the next phuket gazette issue.)

I live in that hope also

I dont know everything

surely not?

although I do know that Joe Cole did not put a penny into the project in the first place and I dont think he would say he did (hence the article couldnt have come from Joe Cole).

HHCC own website has a PDF article stating ‘Cole has invested in a luxury apartment in the HHCC' with an attributed comment to Mr Cole ‘I’m very happy I invested here’. That article also states HHCC is developed by the Lersuang Group and there is comment attributed to their employees. Are you going to suggest THIS was a one sided story also? (well it is but not in the same way

I think it is common knowlege in companies that work with Lersuang around here that they are not the owners of Hua Hin Country Club they are actually just shareholders (but the buyers couldnt possibly have known this as it has never been told and after all Lersaung were promoting it).

So what exactly is the distinction you are trying to make and what is its relevance? Also the buyers will know with whom their contracts are with.

Before I go off the TOPIC I think the answer to the questions on why the phuket gazette didnt write up the story last week is possibly because they just couldnt do it in time and wanted the face to face interview to ge the truth, they probably just wrote that brief explanation so people knew they were following up on it although maybe they should have just left it until they wrote the article.

yep, as I posted earlier headless chicken time – better to say nothing until full truth available

I dont think it is fair for people to say that the gazette is protecting their advertisers because as someone who follows properties in phuket I haven't seen an adverisment in the Phuket Gazette from Lersuang in a very long time! I hope that Lersuang gives their full side of the story as it is only fair and I will be looking foward to reading it..........

they have heavily advertised in the past, Gazette has advertising revenue generally from phuket property - beyond that I will not speculate here on potential motivations for earnestly striving for ‘balance’

(as an side do you also go by the name sweetpea on another forum?)

Just out of interest, how much are the actual late penalties you are being asked to pay?

Looking back on the thread we don't really have this information, so maybe are too quick to judge konfuzed; maybe he is being asked to pay an extortionate amount.

Can you clarify a few details:

- How many months did you miss payment?

- How much interest (fine) are being asked to pay?

bump - as i too would be interested and may soften my stance with advice and humility

You are out of interest deadly, but please do not take us all Farangs as so abusive.

oh i never prejudge (.......except when i lapse!)

i will take that as a compliment (please don't correct me if i am wrong)

my condo contract also has this +/- clause which i thought was pretty fair, but i was expecting the variance to be in the <5% range ... 10% seems large and certainly calls into question design issues, like did the contractor screwed up, did your neighbor unit shrunk by 10%, are the hallway corridors smaller than expected, did the overall common area shrink. these are certainly issues you can bring up on transfer if it is indeed the case. however, if the unit size is larger with no effect on what i mentioned, i don't have any issues if it went from say a 50sqm unit to 55sqm and rightfully i should pay given that it is in the contract. in hindsight, all of us should have just made a notation on the contract to cap it at say 5%, and have a clause that gives the buyer to opt out (get a refund) if it exceeds 5%.

obviously i have not seen your purchase contract but given you say this opt out was not in it could i possibly ask if any substantive amendments were made to the contract the seller / developer supplied?

go forth and multiply, this is a very polite way to say &lt;deleted&gt;.. off! go back home and be unhappy wherever you want but not here, nobody is keeping you here, we are here only guests!

No, I am not a , " Guest"

I have a legal visa and Thailand , if it wants its citizens to be able to reside in other countries, must provide like-wise.

I also pay taxes and employ 4 Thais

Do you charge " Guests" taxes when they stay in your home ?

Truth is, I often feel as if I'm merely tolerated for my financial/ business contributions and actually, not welcome at all.

I deeply regret investing in Thailand, and I would warn off any future investors.

you are correct you are not a guest, you are an alien with a visa

.........who pays taxes, 'invested' (wow, 4 thai employees!) and has a distorted perspective of entitlement

as to being tolerated because of money - you don't mention what other 'good' you have brought with you so why else would you be tolerated?

Another thing they tend to do is lie, ALL THE TIME. I have sat in countless meetings and they will look you right in the eye and tell you porkies about completion times, progress etc and if you challenge them they act like you just insulted their Mum!

Anyone who has worked in Thai construction will know what I am talking about.

lies in the construction industry - i am shocked - this must be a Thai thing only

Happy to know he can go back home.

The Passport was genuine?It seems it was!

The photo was accepted by the competent(British,I think)authority?It seems it was!

Was the Passport accepted by the Thai Immigration on entering Thailand?It seems it was!

Why the f*** would he have then to lose his flight and go to prison?For swearing?In English?(normally a tourist doesn't swear in Thai to a Thai Officer)

The British FCO is to blame?For sure.

The Thai Immigration is to blame?Not on TV.

The Politically Correct people are acting like fools?YES.(Sorry Jingthing,MHO only).

It could happen to me,not sure if I would only politely smile.Third world my a**.

not sure? you swear in a thread about someone else's experience of immigration so i would not back you not to

its not about being politically correct its about judging his behaviour (as reported) both at the airport and subsequently as idiotic

Someone very close to me ( could be me ) is very particular about his partners.....

The range is anything up to 40Kgs, 150cms and 40Kgs is perfect, these women are in their 20's and 30's, is this normal for other Farangs too, or is there an underlying sickness involved ?

put that in a 'desperately seeking' advert abroad and you may have a visit from the police and or concerned residents - and rightly so

Reading that original post, it makes me wonder why the Western world is a right fuc_kin' mess and Thailand is doing ok.

Military coup, judicial coup, riots over Songkran, attempted assassinations in middle of Bangkok, continuing political protests, airport shutdowns, border skirmishes with Cambodia, Government House under siege for months, tourism down an estimated 50% this first quarter, economy in recession and set to shrink at least 3% this year, etc, etc, etc.

I'd hate to see it when it really is in a mess.

Has to be said. True.

But I think Maigo is really on about debt levels and inevitable collapse of (some) western countries. Thailand looking better has much to do with 1997 and the IMF restrictions on bank liquidity.

Without '97 they'd be having another '97 x 1000 right now.

True Maigo?

'97 is nowhere near over yet - surface not even scratched paying for that

wow - thanks for passing judgement!

well you did start a thread about the legal consequences of being a deadbeat wink.gif

Go to hel_l!

I started a thread about perhaps just having a bad year.... Glad you have had such a great year!

I must say, its a case of if you don't have anything to say - then don't bother

it was a sarcastic comment - hence the wink

however your posts did not betray any empathy for your fellow co-owners in light of your failure to pay

you have now paid the maintenance (better late than never i suppose) and are wishing to haggle over the fine

I am sure you would now be the first in the queue to excuse one of your fellow co-owners who might have had a bad year also - regardless of the agreements you all entered into upon purchasing at the condominium - or are collective obligations only flexible when they apply to you?

i hope next year is better for you and you can fulfill your obligations

The law has not changed to make ownership via a thai company illegal when before it was not as Bagwan suggests.

There has long been general prohibitions against farangs owning land (subject to very limited exceptions which hardly ever apply - BOI approval etc) and the use of nominees.

The tightening of the laws and practice concerning land and company registration (which are inconsistently applied) means more attention needs to be paid to the structuring of the company - so that others do not pay attention to it.

No matter what structure you use if (as is the likely aim) a thai company is used for a farang to secure effective ownership and control of thai land that is where it falls foul of the general prohibition in the strictest sense - anything else is just differing levels of disguise.

There are ways and means to avoid any investigation of the structure and to ensure if investigated the structure holds up (to the current level of thinking which may change) but its all shades of grey - there is no 100% certain way for a farang to effectively own land (subject to the minor execptions that do not apply in most cases).

If farang wants certainty Thailand is not the place.

However there are steps farang can take to ensure they are as protected as can be.

The ideal solution for the OP is a straight sale of an offshore company that (through whatever structure) effectively controls the thai land owning company. This would not involve any paperwork or monies in Thailand and has other advantages. However given the OP is asking I would imagine this exit strategy was not put in place at the outset. The time and cost of setting that structure now against the property price and the fact a buyer is waiting may mean its not a reasonable solution.

I don't know how hard the OP has had to look for a buyer and or the attractiveness of the property at the price but the OP should remember he/she chooses what and how he/she is selling. The seller can bend a little to this buyer's requirements (or likely requirements of any prospective buyers when going to market) but should not be dictated to.

The OP's aim surely is to make the sale at value and have a clean break from the property and company and any liabilities associated with them.

I would suggest the OP should sell the company with the property (why keep it?). Open negotiations saying its to be sold to a Thai national (hence the farang's wife)- if they refuse and want this sale now then agree can be sold to farang. However the practicalities of this and (in any event) of securing receipt of funds need to be thoroughly considered.

The first step however is to engage a decent lawyer - relying on the real estate agent and or their preferred 'lawyer' is NOT the way forward. They want the sale to go through and do not particularly care how.

it may well be a non-malicious laugh but the OP's name and location perhaps betray something else for the judgemental

for you other farangs who 'understand thai culture' are we to take it you are never laughed at or instead your understanding does not extend to telling the difference?

anyway i would be interested to see the 'pu yings' the OP belives he's encountered whilst soi girl hunting in pattaya soi 6

for anyone offended by this post please don't be as its my culture which you should of course respect

wow - thanks for passing judgement!

well you did start a thread about the legal consequences of being a deadbeat

Thaiwander, call it what it is - theft of our property. I am a believer in Karma too but maybe someone on the Changmai forum will recognise them and PM us.

Yes we have a marketing business in property and we did as much due diligence as we could. But if a thief is going to steal then he will find a way to do it - due diligence or not.

Tiggy

point taken and good luck as i said before but it does not appear they needed to 'find a way' - they had an inclination and or saw the opportunity because you did not take the necessary precautions

due dilligence is not just a paper exercise

good luck with it however you proceed from here

“The floodwater has no effect on humans. It’s not dirty water, it’s rainwater. The dirty water gets sent to another area,” he said.

Cyprus and Tiggy - i see you appear to be in the real estate business so am a little surprised at your mistakes - nevermind lesson learned etc.

if you wish to pursue them can do via police or 'other avenues' but you may well not get anywhere near complete financial restitution

if you want to go down that route think of it as revenge and if that is what you want go for it

personally i would not be bothered and rely on karma - each to their own

however i would be more concerned at checking you have good title for the land and house without relying on your present lawyer

good luck

iirc without the high import tax on such vehicles (and associated tax write offs where car parts produced and or assembled in Thailand) there would be nothing like the auto industry there is in thailand (or at least was until very recently )

also (on a bad note) the propensity of pick up trucks arose from their tax designation as agricultural vehicles

the tax stretches brand snobbery to make it even more ridiculous - is a mini that much better than say a jazz? essentially its a purchase purely to say 'i paid the tax'

A Thai Company has to have a 51% majority of Thai Shareholders. Why doesn't he contact them if he wishes to sell the property? They will all be listed on his company documents.

The Thais with 51% have no power in this i think the two guys from the UK can do as thay please but it takes both of them to do anything but one has gone and thay have no contact at all. The one that left has payed nothing for upkeep or tax at all for years. I dont think the Thai with 51% can help but i will look into it thx.

sympathy with friend's predicament but friend has had use of the property so doubt the taxes disproportionately unfair for the use he's had