pitrevie

2 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Why are you so utterly transfixed on such a mute point?

 

Fact: The gun was fired yesterday.

 

Fact: Our divorce absolute is expected in 2 years.

 

Fact: No one expected to be free this week regardless of what you think you have read.

 

I propose we resume from here & include a little maturity & the odd one liner that might endear us to the opposition...

I recall reading remarks the day following the result that we were OUT of the EU. Its as if Brexiters can't face the reality that this is a long and difficult process and require good will on both side. None of that is helped by "now we can watch the EU implode or the Euro fail", god only knows how the EU and or Euro imploding will in any way benefit the UK. However that is a common response from those who voted Brexit.   Perhaps you can dig out some remark from the EU side that says they hope the UK will fail, I haven't seen one, or if there is its vary rare. They know that its not in the interests of anyone in the EU for the UK to implode. As for your facts I have seen those much more acquainted with the legal niceties than either you or I state that it will take a while longer than two years for this to be sorted out. 

7 minutes ago, evadgib said:

We put that to bed in the 70s. Both countries admire each other if the truth be told but the EU morphed into something that parasized both & we had the gumption to do something about it. I wish Germany well. They were decades in front when I lived there 

I wish we had but watch any football match between England and Germany and it suggests otherwise. The scandalous behaviour by English fans only a short time ago also suggests otherwise. I also think the way the OP referred to Germans suggests otherwise. I am sure there are German posters on TV who will be dismayed by such labels, I am not German and I am.

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

But you evidently don't have the first clue about principles of accounting!

Ah I see that you dodged the rule of law. Perhaps you should ask Farage about accounts after all he is an MEP and yet has one of the worst attendance records in the EU Parliament quite apart from attending 1 out of 42 meetings of a committee to which he was appointed. What a shame that our elected representatives don't take a more serious approach to this scandal but then Farage is now being accused of misuse of expenses. 

7 hours ago, 3NUMBAS said:

The krauts will soon be sobbing as they have to plug the hole from no further UK payments ..And the other 26 will still want their grubby handouts but UK won't be paying as their factories start laying off car workers..Just wait for the EU to implode in the coming months from cash shortages 

I would guess you are the type that treats every England v Germany football match as a re-run of WW2

38 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

These EU clowns are living in cloud cuckoo land. But they are about to be brought back down to reality with a very hard bump.

 

EU: "You owe us lots and lots of money."

 

UK: "Ok, let's see the audited books."

 

EU: "Er.....we'll get back to you on that one."

 

Or

 

EU: "Our pet court is going to be the arbiter in all of this."

 

UK: ""

 

And so on, and so on.....

It isn't that long ago that Brexiters were castigating the British Courts. I assume you do believe in the rule of law.

2 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

The process has started, and I agree it is not an instantaneous change, but the new era does start today, the UK is leaving the EU for sure. What it looks like when the negotiations are done in a couple of years when the UK has officially left the EU we will have to wait and see. I am confidant it will prove to be the best decision the UK has made for a very, very long time.

I like my pie on a plate thanks!

Believing the EU is anything more than Eurocratic, undemocratic and expansionist nonsense is "pie in the sky".

 

Well we didn't have to wait and see what affect deciding to leave had on our currency as correctly predicted by all those silly experts, it plummeted. We know where we were when we joined the EEC right in the basement the sick man of Europe. So where will we be in a couple of years from now, as Kenneth Clarke said we have disappeared down a rabbit hole and apparently we expect to reappear in wonderland. Perhaps you would like to tell us will the pound be worth more or will it be less, will our economic situation be better or worse or it it pie in the sky?

1 hour ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

Talk about getting facts wrong, you are really very good at that, if not much else.

See my earlier replies starting at 335.

You still don't get it, you tried to claim that we were out as soon as we invoked Article 50 that is clearly not the case Article 50 is the start of the process of withdrawal. Even Lord Kerr the man who wrote Article 50 states that it is not irrevocable, but hell what does he know about it he is another one of those know all legal and diplomatic experts.

37 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

And when you take into account the fact that most of us in these discussions have family who are "little brown people" (his words), this particular debating tactic is more than offensive on a general level: it's hugely offensive on a personal level. Makes one wonder what, if any, connection he has with Thailand.

Do spare me your fake outrage, you and DD can not supply me with anything that suggests it was meant in the way you have decided to take it. This was the main thrust of the poster that Farage published (which even made Gove shudder but apparently which neither you nor DD have anything to say about)and contrary to what DD tries to say about immigration from the poorer parts of Eastern Europe it showed a long line of exclusively brown people and in fact was a picture of refugees outside the borders of the EU not within. It had nothing to do with the free movement of labour it was a pure scare tactic based on race so please spare me your fake offence.

It was a main theme of Johnson and Gove when they knew there was never any chance of Turkey being admitted to the EU telling us that over 300,000 immigrants a year was impossible to integrate and he was another who referred to to Turks overwhelming Europe, the Sunday Express actually claimed that 12 million Turks were intending to come to Europe. Note again nothing to do with the free movement of Labour within the EU borders but people who had darker skins. 

To listen to Brexiters now trying to claim the moral high ground when one of the three principal themes of their campaign was controlling immigration (since abandoned) and indeed it was the principal theme of the UKIP campaign who now want to reconstruct themselves as an anti immigration party. 

Find me any statement that I have posted suggesting all Brexiters are racists. But what I will say and what the journalist Wil Self said was not all Brexiters are racist but all racists were Brexiters. 

5 minutes ago, sandyf said:

You must have watched a different version of the programme.

In the one I saw Nick Clegg brought up an interesting quote. Apparently David Davis is reported as having said " If a democracy cannot change its mind then it ceases to be a democracy"

Yep I have quoted that several times on this forum but as usual it goes over the heads of some people. However in fairness David Davis has also now changed his mind "In recent months, however, Mr Davis has suggested there should be no opportunity for Britain to change its mind on whether to leave the EU." such consistency.

Just now, sandyf said:

Totally agree, one of the best posts on the thread, but just because DC and his cronies screwed up big time does not mean that leaving the EU is the right thing to do.

When the government starts amending employment legislation back in favour of the employer everyone will start to realise that they threw away the only entity that could keep the UK government in check. For many reasons the feel good factor of independence could be very short lived.

I also agree my job benefited under what was known as TUPE when it was transferred into the private sector.  Now I suspect the hard right of the Tory Party will be delighted that they can no longer be held in check.

27 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

Article 50 is silent on issue of the UKs ability to revoke the notice.

 

There is a court case in progress which may clarify the position.However if UK parliament at some point in the future wishes  to withdraw the notification there is nothing in law preventing the EU from accepting the notice being withdrawn

This is what Professor Michael Dougan says,

Once Article 50 is activated the UK is cut out of EU decision-making at the highest level and there will be no way back unless by unanimous consent from all other member states.

But hell what does he know about it after all he is only a Professor in European Law I am sure that many TV posters know far more about the matter. May as well abandon that court case the definitive position has of course been stated by George F......

4 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

You just totally ignored what I said. All of that is fact, not "alternative" fact, just fact. Look it up!

If you had bothered to read what invoking Article 50 means you would know there is NO turning back, or are you that much in denial?

All that remains is negotiating the terms of leaving. The EU know that, the media have said that time and time again but you still don't believe it.

Wake up. Wednesday is the start of a new era.

Again complete pie in the sky today the process begins of withdrawing from the EU and it will take months perhaps even years for the process to be completed. Only when the process has been completed can one truly say a new era has begun and until that date we will be operating under the same rules as we have been previously. In fact all that happens today is that a letter gets delivered stating our intention to withdraw so I doubt that the negotiators will even meet this week who knows, do you have a timetable. Then apparently the first item on the agenda is the bill for withdrawal. Who knows they might even get around to talking about our eventual relationship with Europe and what sort of treaty we will have but I daresay you are not interested in that.

2 minutes ago, KunMatt said:

 

A suggestion cannot be a lie.  Also, we are still paying into the EU so that suggestion cannot have happened yet according to the Gospel on the side of the bus.

 

Who wouldn't want to fund the NHS?  Oh that's right, Remoaners because you used your vote to make sure that the NHS got zero extra funding.  You voted for no change.  Only now are you all so concerned about the NHS.  Total hypocrites who don't care about the NHS, you just don't like to not get your own way so you bring up "the bus" on every Brexit discussion.

It was probably the single most prominent feature of the OUT campaign and you would have difficulty naming someone at the top of the Brexit campaign that didn't have his photograph standing in front of the big red bus,

However just like all the promises at the time no sooner that the campaign was over then it became only a suggestion. Just like immigration numbers. no we never said we would reduce immigration numbers only control, at that stage the interviewer shook his head in disbelief and burst out laughing

Just like remaining members of the single market hardly weeks had passed before that too was jettisoned.

As for your so called concern for the NHS I will take that the same way all the major promises of the OUT campaign have been jettisoned. 

2 minutes ago, KunMatt said:

 

Your brought up "the bus" as part of your argument therefore you forfeit the right to be debated with as an adult.

 

You couldnt have timed it any better as I had just posted that "the bus" is the most pathetic argument that the Remoaners have but one that they return to on every single discussion.  You have nothing better than "the bus", this is your biggest gripe about the whole Leave compaign; a twisted out of context quote, because you have nothing.

 

So whenever a Remoaner brings up "the bus" then any rational debate is over.

 

 

 

 

Yes of course because it was exposed as fake at the time and even Farage tried to distance himself from it later. It was one of those industrial lies that Professor Micahel Dougan referred to but of course your are not interested in anything he says unless it is on the side of a bus.

2 minutes ago, KunMatt said:

I'm sorry, but unless Prof Michael Douglas wrote it on the side of a bus in the form of a vague suggestion then I don't want to hear about it.

 

From now on we live our lives based on things we see written on the side of  busses.  Only those suggestions are contractually binding in a post Brexit UK.

Yep that is what your argument has been reduced to. Whereas I can refer to multiple issues your singular obsession is a bus.

1 minute ago, rockingrobin said:

This is missing the point.

D Cameron who stated leave meant leaving the SM is no longer in position to influence that choice.

The Brexit campaigners who stated leaving did not mean leaving SM are now in a position to fulfill that claim 

You are quite correct and its much like to listening to Trump who forgets that he is the president and it doesn't matter what the losing side said or promised the issue has got nothing to do with them.

This is about what was promised by those who wanted us OUT. Now the Brexiters are walking back each and everything they said during their campaign.

There will be no extra money for the NHS arising from any so called savings by not being in the EU.

Immigration is unlikely to be reduced.

And we will probably no longer be in the single market. 

Just now, KunMatt said:

 

See?!  "The bus".

 

Hahahahahahahaha

Why was that the only thing that I said but of course you chose to ignore the rest. However I like Professor Michael Dougan's description the best when he said that there were those in on the remain said did lie and exaggerate but nothing compared to the industrial scale that came out of the Brexit side. 

1 minute ago, KunMatt said:

Boris Johnson wasn't the PM during the referendum campaigns.  The guy was who the PM stated several times that voting to leave the EU meant voting to leave the single market.

 

All of this "soft Brexit" nonsense only started after the vote by Remoaners desperate to keep us in the EU as much as possible.

Boris Johnson was the leader of the OUT campaign and he told the public what OUT meant. It meant a big red bus, it meant reducing immigration, it meaning leaving the EU but remaining in the single market.

Since then the big red bus has disappeared along with its message. Nobody now talks about reducing immigration in fact Boris even admitted it might even go up. I actually posted the link to Daniel Hannan being interviewed and when he told the interviewer that it wasn't about reducing immigration even the interviewer shook his head is disbelief.

Strange that you now chose to quote one of the men who was so often accused of scare tactics.

Just to add in a recent poll 9 out of 10 polled whether they voted to remain or leave wanted to remain in the single market .

52 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Which brings us back nicely to the debating trick of insisting that those who voted brexit were voting against "little brown people'/Osborne was only forecasting (with his promised punishment budget) the result of a brexit win, rather than ratcheting up "Project Fear"/those who voted brexit were "numpties".

 

I can't be the only one who is sick and tired of these "debating tricks"!

Talking of debating tricks why have you conflated you reply to me with a statement I have never made. Try and find the word numties in any of my previous posts. Nor did I combine voting against with "little brown people". I was referring to the disgraceful poster that Farage had issued.

38 minutes ago, englishinsiam said:

 

All campaigners when asked confirmed we would leave the single market, the customs union and so on.

It's going to take a lot of negotiation but it's not in the UK's or Europe's interest to provide the UK a bad deal.

I think something along the lines of we pay for access to both these. However we then get to restrict free movement and can pick and choose the migrants that come here unlike the poor screwed over German people.

When you remoaners keep harping on at the one fact you have, which is we aren't out tomorrow then you have no basis for a civilised debate.

Nothing will really change for 18-24 months but I'm glad that pretty soon the UK will once again be masters of our own destiny.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

 

When they campaigned for an OUT vote all the campaigners were stating just the opposite. Boris Johnson was adamant that leaving the EU did not mean leaving the single market, in other words he seemed to think we could have our cake and eat it. 

However you refer to a civilised debate while in the same sentence referring to REMOANERS, perhaps you should try engaging in a civilised debate without feeling the need for snide labels.

1 minute ago, AlexRich said:

 

LOL ... absolutely, he's got form ... being on his ignore list is something that should be worn like a badge of honour. When the debate gets too tough, he gets going ... builds himself a 'straw man' and retreats to the moral high ground like a scolded baby. 

 

You are quite right being accused by Khun Han of intellectual dishonesty is so much of a joke it should be transferred to the joke section. When you ask him for evidence he calls that a debating trick, god only knows where that logic comes from.

3 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

Correct. And an absolutely typical tactic of the poster you have quoted. I'll accept his protestations that he's not that sneaky, dishonest little so-and-so Andrew Macgregor Marshall. But his writing 'personality' and political views indicate that they might as well have been twins, separated at birth .

Ah the first time you have had the honesty to admit that. Now perhaps you will also apologise for accusing me of banning you from some twitter account which I have never had in my life. By the way who the hell is Andrew Macgregor Marshall that you have a bee in your bonnet about.

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

And you persist - insisting that the brexit vote was a result of people voting against (in your words) "little brown people"!

 

I'm bored with pointing this out, and so will give this up as a pointless exercise.

Well when you can show me where I said people voting against little brown people, I note that you have only put the phrase  "little brown people" in quotations.

2 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Depends how quickly you get bored with correcting deliberate half-truths and misinterpretations. Or, in the case of another remain poster, having every debate end up with him stumped and coming out with one of his 'killer' lines such as 'look, I don't have any crayons at hand at the moment to explain it to you.' It's groundhog day, and it becomes tiresome.

I think I will let my previous post stand as to your attempts at smearing people and misrepresenting them on this forum. It earned you a suspension.

3 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Intellectual dishonesty is trying to pin the blame on brexit voters voting against "little brown people"....

Who did that read the post again. I said that was the intention of that poster that Farage put up.