pitrevie

3 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Yes, Abdelhamid Abaaoud and his merry gang also found the open borders in the Schengen zone a pleasure too. Fact is such unchecked freedom of movement is a surefire recipe for expanding criminality of all types. But, who cares? We get to have smoother, less hassle holidays, right?

In order to enter the Schengen area everyone has to go through an immigration control port of call. If they failed to pick anyone up why should any further border checks at the next countries borders pick anyone up. It is only open borders within Schengan in order to enter the Schengen zone you have to go through immigration control. So if any person can enter Britain through immigration control at the port of entry exactly how would it make a difference in the UK. We don't even have ID cards. 

1 hour ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

people predict what they hope will happen. 

Well the Dutch have already decided and Farage had great hopes for them which didn't materialise no chance of them leaving the EU. The French will decide soon and that looks likely to go the way of the pro EU parties which just leaves Germany and even if Merkel isn't Chancellor there isn't much chance of her successor wanting to leave either. So yep its just the UK and I think there will be great rejoicing in the EU Parliament when Farage walks out for the last time and they don't have to listen to his constant message of doom and gloom.

35 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

I love the way how remainers present Britain's opt-out of the Euro and other equally hare-brained schemes such as Schengen as being unreasonable . And nobody will be leaving with nothing from no deal. Europe will be the nett losers. But let's see for how long (if at all) the multis will buy into the EU's 'punish the UK to force the rest to love each other' philosophy. My money's on the multis winning that one.

Not quite clear why Schengen is unreasonable, its a pleasure to travel across Europe without being stopped at every border along the way. Note in order to enter the Schengen area I go through the same passport and immigration controls as I do when entering the UK or any other country. A friend of mine who applied for a Schengen visa recently faced all the same vetting procedures with his first port of entry.

3 hours ago, Grouse said:

And we have the audacity to moan about immigrants not integrating in the UK! 

 

How awful, it must drive the Spanish insane.

 

Fancy not even learning the language! And how about that numpty who voted for Brexit!

I agree the hysterical part of that video was that guy who voted Brexit because the UK should control immigration but was still going to continue living in Spain. The disconnect is unbelievable as if the Spanish are going to accept a situation whereby Brits are going to be allowed to live and work in Spain but Spaniards will not be allowed the same in the UK.

1 minute ago, sandyf said:

Without a doubt.

In 1979 I took 6 portable ovens down to a customer in the south of France. I allowed what I thought was adequate time at Dover to visit the customs department but grossly underestimated. I had to visit 3 different offices for signature and stamp and in the last had to ask to jump the queue, they were virtually raising the ramp as I drove on board. I didn't clear at Calais but went on to Brive and went to the local office with the customer. We were there all afternoon as they scrutinised the documents and calculated how much tax had to be paid. Interestingly enough at no point did any official ask to see the goods, only concerned about the paperwork and collecting the money. When it comes to collecting government revenue, time does not factor into the equation, axxe covering becomes the priority.

The single market opened the door to a whole new customer base for smaller companies in the UK, it will be a sad day when they start putting trip wires across the entrance.

Yes but you are not taking into account that now we are free from the dictatorial and undemocratic EU we will be able to trade on a global scale however without becoming globalists which I understand is a very bad thing. Now we are going to be able to trade with all those countries that we could not trade with while we were member's of said undemocratic and dictatorial EU. 

Below I have appended a list of such countries.

ummm well there is also ummm, oh well there must be lots of them.

Kenneth Clarke calls this policy disappearing down a rabbit hole and emerging into some wonderland.

27 minutes ago, Somtamnication said:

May he rot in hell. 

Contrary to his belief the only rotting he will be doing is in the ground.

21 minutes ago, sandyf said:

The term 'access' is a misnomer. A door gives you access but its physical size gives defined parameters, there is no parameters in the brexit concept of access.

Leaving the single market was big mistake but leaving the customs union is nothing short of a throat cutting exercise. Customs regulations will be nothing new, we have been there before, and it wasn't good.

To think that almost all the main spokesmen for Brexit told us that leaving the EU did not mean leaving the single market and the PM also in favour of remaining in the EU and single market. Its why only days following the result I advocated Johnson for PM along the lines he made the mess he should clear it up. However as Heseltine said at the time once the going got rough Boris ducked out of it and ran away

Drunk in the morning, clearly he has a problem.

11 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

I laughed out loud at the Whetherspoon's CEO on Question Time, an ardent Brexit supporter, when he said we needed to maintain immigration, something that he did not have a problem with? 

If you recall only days after the Brexit vote Johnson, Hannan and other Brexiters were asked this very question and the reverse rowing started immediately. None of them promised they could reduce immigration or even wanted to. The reaction of the interviewer says it all when Hannan makes that statement.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/06/tory-brexiter-daniel-hannan-leave-campaign-never-promised-radical-decline

5 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

Interesting to look back at the original claims made by the Brexit supporters on here about the forthcoming negotiation. The "they need us more than we need them" argument doesn't seem to be playing out ... looks like we're heading for the door with the WTO rules for future trade ... will be interesting to view the landscape as international businesses begin to move to Europe and inward investment falters ... but at least the NHS will be safe with that extra £350m per week. So, not all bad?

 

 

The Daily Mail and Daily Telegraph are offering a reward to anyone who can find any red bus with that message painted all over it. It was a figment of your imagination, nobody ever talks about it on the Brexit side.

34 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Interesting article in the Telegraph today which might upset the die hard remainers on here.

 

It came as a poll showed that Remain voters appear to be warming to the idea of Brexit, with more than half of them wanting an end to freedom of movement.

A similar proportion of people who voted to stay in the EU also support a ban on welfare payments for EU migrants.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/21/remain-voters-warming-idea-brexit-poll-shows/

 

 

"But nine in ten people want Britain to maintain free trade with the EU after Brexit, regardless of which way they voted in last year’s referendum." Which is what Boris Johnson and many of the principal players told us would happen should we vote Brexit. Difficult to see how that is going to happen.

21 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Quite. Government workers are paid well enough with better than average employment conditions and terms. Their pension scheme is absurdly generous and needs winding down. I have several friends who achieved middle management status in local government jobs, who retired at 55 ( one managed to retire at 54), and now live the life of Riley purely off the back of their government pensions. I also have a friend who was a senior police officer who retired at 50.

Perhaps you could give us some details of these absurd public sector pensions terms and conditions that you speak about. 

Oh well glad that is out of the way now for the next lie.

1945 - 1959

A peaceful Europe – the beginnings of cooperation

The European Union is set up with the aim of ending the frequent and bloody wars between neighbours, which culminated in the Second World War. As of 1950, the European Coal and Steel Community begins to unite European countries economically and politically in order to secure lasting peace. The six founding countries are Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, Luxembourg and the Netherlands.

From resistance fighters to lawyers, the Founding Fathers were a diverse group of people who held the same ideals: a peaceful, united and prosperous Europe.

Lest we forget!

12 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Yes, between us paying back the Americans for war equipment they provided, and the £4.3bn loan we had to take out with them to stop the war effort from bankrupting us, we were at a serious disadvantage to the fledging West Germany. Which was being nursed back from austerity by it's American occupiers.

"the fledging West Germany. Which was being nursed back from austerity by it's American occupiers." Already debunked but completely ignored by you as you continue with your ridiculous absurd narrative about the recovery of West Germany. Where the hell do you get the notion that West Germany was being nursed back from austerity, it was recovering from the devastation of the 2nd WW, is that what you call austerity? Again please don't compare the UK which had also suffered tremendous war damage but nothing compared to what Germany had suffered and before you go down that track, no I am not trying to absolve them from blame. 

25 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

You can dress this up any way and as much as you want, but the bald facts are that we got old German machinery and Germany got new machinery paid for by the USA. Us getting new machinery paid for by the USA (and Germany getting to keep it's aging machinery) was never an option. 

Former US Chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank Alan Greenspan gives most credit to Ludwig Erhard for Europe's economic recovery. Greenspan writes in his memoir The Age of Turbulence that Erhard's economic policies were the most important aspect of postwar Western Europe recovery, even outweighing the contributions of the Marshall Plan. He states that it was Erhard's reductions in economic regulations that permitted Germany's miraculous recovery, and that these policies also contributed to the recoveries of many other European countries. Its recovery is attributed to traditional economic stimuli, such as increases in investment, fueled by a high savings rate and low taxes.

However I am sure that somewhere you will find someone who agrees with your economic assessment for the recovery of Europe after the war based on "we got old German machinery and Germany got new machinery "

Just now, Khun Han said:

 

You can dress this up any way and as much as you want, but the bald facts are that we got old German machinery and Germany got new machinery paid for by the USA. Us getting new machinery paid for by the USA was never an option. 

Try looking at how much assistance the UK received under the same plan as Germany you might be better informed, but I doubt it will make any difference.

20 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

It was up to us what we took - fairness is a schoolyard arguement that is hardly relevant here.

 

20 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

It was up to us what we took - fairness is a schoolyard arguement that is hardly relevant here.

 

Just to drag a few facts into this particular argument in the 4 years the Marshall Plan was in operation to assist with the rebuilding of Western Europe the UK received more than twice what Germany received. Then as we all know Germany became the powerhouse of Europe and the UK went into decline. I recall friends telling me that you could get 11 DM/£ and when I was working and living in Germany it had decreased to just over 4 DM/£ and I believe the figure just prior to the Euro was around 2. So Germany thrived on the back of a currency that was getting stronger year by year. (Now we are being led to believe that German success was due to all the aid they received after the war and latterly their cheap Euro) In 1973 the UK took the decision to join the EEC and our economy which was regarded as the sick man of Europe became blah blah blah as Khun Han likes to tell us.

21 minutes ago, i claudius said:

 

We benifited ,"not a lot" from the E.U as far as i can see we abided by every rule while most of the other country's just did as they pleased ,France being one of the main ones doing this .

Yep when we joined our economy was such a rip roaring success and the EU dragged us down. As for abiding by every rule I seem to recall that we asked for a lot of special treatment and exemptions.

6 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Somebody is confused, but it aint me. The EU has it's own procedures for dealing with international disputes, and it has been working to enhance those procedures considerably since 2015 with a new mechanism:

 

http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/accessing-markets/dispute-settlement/index_en.htm

 

And then there is the ECJ, which is an EU organisation made up of 28 judges, one from each member state.

 

So, which is this independant court? What's it's name?

 

And, Sheung Wan, like I said, let's see how the EU trying to play hardball over this pans out. There are already rumblings of dissent from member states and regions. And I'm pretty sure EU big industry won't see the benefits of this hardline approach, especially as they will be the biggest losers. I could easily envisage this kind of intransigence causing the EU to fracture.

Lets try again you said that the dispute would be referred to an international court. The ECJ is not an international court it is a European Court its made up of judges from European countries so I am assuming that any dispute referred to an International Court would be referred to the ICJ (which has judges from all over the world) not the ECJ which is an entirely different body of jurists, its international not European. and the courts are even located in different countries.

Britain would still be bound by the judgments of international courts under any serious international free trade agreement with other countries, a leading legal academic has warned MPs. Professor Michael Dougan, one of the UK’s foremost authorities on European law, warned that Britain would still have to be overruled by a court in Luxembourg if it wanted to retain access to the European single market.

5 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

"The EU is confident that, in the event of a U.K. departure without a deal, European demands for the country to meet its financial commitments to the bloc would be legally solid and hold up in international courts"

 

Which courts? Their own?

 

 

 

 

Don't you even read what you write, its says International courts, how do the EU own those? Apart from it being located in the Hague it has nothing to do with the EU, you really are a very confused person.

1 minute ago, Flustered said:

Michael Snyder is a total whack job. I consider my self religious but he is an extremist. If you put your faith in what he writes, you should read more, for example he wrote.

 

"Millions of Muslims all over the world are giving their lives to Jesus Christ, and in many instances this is happening because of dreams, visions and other supernatural encounters. " Really?

 

He also for sees the second coming of Christ between 2017 and 2024.

 

When will people accept that until the Brexit deal (or no deal) is signed, no one knows what will happen. Certainly not the intellectual financial giants we have on TV forecasting gloom, doom and despondency.

 

I put my faith in the big car manufacturers and companies like Google who are pumping in $billions pre Brexit to the UK economy so they must know something.

I am glad that some people know what they are talking about Khun Han just jumps on the bandwagon of any poster he favours doesn't bother checking what they have written and then accuses others of intellectual dishonesty because they have done just that. This is put forward as Remainers predicting total financial collapse if the UK voted Brexit. Little wonder that Kenneth Clarke said we we were heading down a rabbit hole.

15 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Like I said Gravy, you're wasting your time. He will just nit pick over wording until you get bored. It's called intellectual dishonesty.

You didn't bother to follow the links did you, you just took them at face value, what was that you just said about intellectual dishonesty?

As well as his Economic Collapse blog he has also written a book called the "Beginning of the end". He is a Christian Fundamentalist who takes the Bible literally. 

25 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I would suggest you put your glasses on and read the articles. An economic collapse is a financial collapse. Yes in denial for sure. a couple more for you to deny.

 

 

Stock market boss warns Brexit could cause financial bloodbath in London with 'at least' 100,000 City jobs at risk
 

 

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-3803870/Stock-market-boss-warns-Brexit-cause-financial-bloodbath-London-100-000-City-jobs-risk.html

 

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/june-23-2016-the-brexit-vote-could-change-everything-and-plunge-europe-into-financial-chaos

Wow that is all you could come up with and there was me thinking that you would be able to quote some of the principal players or some financial authority such as the Bank of England, The Treasury, the IMF, IFS or even mad George Osborne and all you have got is thisismoney.co.uk and some blog. I don't even rely on thisismoney.co.uk on where to invest my money. Its almost as bad as listening to Alex Jones and quoting what he says to support your case. Please do try and find someone on the REMAIN side who predicted a total financial collapse and by someone I don't mean a REMAIN supporter like Betty Higgins of Doncaster etc.

Have you actually read anything else by  Michael Snyder the author of that second link, he is predicting a world wide economic collapse. Go to his website and have a look.