pitrevie

To all the poster advocating a revote/rethink/60% rule: Can you honestly say that you would be on here debating these points if "remain" had won?

To some other posters: I think it's very arrogant/condescending to say "Go and think about what you did little Johnny and then come tell Mommy you're sorry". I know some "Little Johnny's" that have the highest levels of education in fields such as physics and economics that supported the leave campaign. Maybe...just maybe, the leave people voted "leave", because...well...THEY WANT TO LEAVE

Well apparently that is exactly what Farage said.

In an interview last Tuesday when he was asked about repercussions of voting to leave Boris said "Look, for some reason some people seem to think that if they vote to leave then when they wake up on Friday things will have changed. On the contrary, everything will be the same, they will get up and go to work and everything will be as normal."

For some reason Boris is not available for comment today, or yesterday come to that. Everyone else is available except for Boris Johnson. Maybe he doesn't want to explain the backtracking on the promises or tell us how the 350 million pounds a week has suddenly become 160 million pounds and Oh! sorry but that won't be going to the NHS after all!

Lots more to come

Is it you don't understand or you don't want to understand?

350mill is the gross we pay to the EU each week 10 bill a year net, when we no longer are in the EU we will have the 350 million a week to spend, if we comtinue to give the money to farmers, councils and all the other groups that currently get EU funding there will be less than 350 mill to spend each week, it's not rocket science!

I am afraid that its you that doesn't understand. The 350 million was never a true figure we actually send about 175 million so we will be saving at most 175 million a week and people such as IDS are already backing away from the promise to spend it on anything let alone the NHS. As its not rocket science to understand let me explain, I give you ten pounds each month of which you give me back five pounds immediately. Now how much money am I giving to you?

Sir Andrew Dilnot, the chair of the UK Statistics Authority, twice reprimanded the campaign for using the figure.

Institute for Fiscal Studies describing the figure as “clearly absurd” and estimating that Britain’s net contributions were closer to £175m a week.

The only reason this IS becoming a disaster is the way it's being handled (or not handled at all by those who should be handling it).

None of this is good thus far. I have a disturbing feeling it's started as it means to go on.

The whole brexit started many years ago as a power game in UK. There was a need to please the Eurosceptics to gain votes.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-britain-finland-idUSBRE89H19J20121018

Cameron was eager to prove his view that everybody loves EU that he announced the referendum vote. He was 110% sure it would be a jog in a park. After all, all the previous votes had been successes.

Cameron was dead wrong. He did not understood how sick and tired ordinary people were about the UK politics. These people wanted to show that they have power and voted against Cameron.. as well as the EU which Cameron supported.

The populists saw the opportunity and used the agony of British people for their own gain. They wanted power. They wanted to rule the UK. For the populists, there is almost nothing what is considered as beyond fair play. It's ok to lie, it's ok to make false claims. It's ok to do pretty much anything to gain votes and manipulate people's minds. The populists did exactly that.

So, now we are in this mess. UK people don't really wish to leave the EU, but they have voted to do so. How to manage the unbearable situation? The situation which very few people actually wants. Some old sods do, but they are in minority.

There are different ways. One is to have a second referendum. Another easy way out is to get Scotland to veto the result.

Then there is a possibility of general elections. The newly elected government wouldn't be obligated to follow the promises to obey the results of the advisory referendum poll.

On top of all this, there is the EU. EU might see Brexit as an opportunity to make EU a more functional entity. It might be happy for the referendum results and the fact that UK is out of the EU's core.

I'm with the EU, but I'll be sad for the good folks in UK.

Yes I agree with you I should think the EU once it recovers from this upheaval it will be business as usual, they were there long before we joined and despite the wishful thinking of many who believed everything negative about the EU they will be there long afterwards. Now that they have got rid of the one member who was constantly whinging, complaining with demands for special treatment and opt outs. When the EU parliament watches Farage walk out of that door for the last time there will be great joy and cheering. How us British are going to enjoy his antics if/when he gets elected to our parliament.

Typical left…..all for free speech and democracy until it doesn't suit them.

I gather the main agitator for the referendum is on record saying that he would not accept the result if the margin was less than 3 to 4% would that be "Typical right"

I am against the Brexit (not a Brit myself) But it seems the Brexit won fair and square. It would be unfair IMHO to do a re vote. I am sure most people who are pro Brexit will feel the same.

I agree, I was also against Brexit and we have always complained about those countries that did have a second referendum just to get the right result with the EU being accused of forcing them to do so.

In this case the EU has been very clear every official has stated, they respect the British vote, there will be no renegotiation no bribes no threats or blackmail, just leave and as soon as possible.

I think you miss my point?

Maybe, but the UK has voted to leave.... that was the referendum, that was the result.... there is NO mandate for renegotiation.

There are two sides to the negotiation - one the party leaving.... and one the parties that remain.... it makes no sense for Britain to have any further input on anything to do with EU's future. It makes no sense for Britain to have a say on both sides of the table. At least in Canada Quebec stated during it's referendum that they are seeking "sovereignty association" and a mandate for renegotiating it's relationship with the rest of Canada. The UK's was Remain or Leave....

I understand what you are saying, but Juncker has already made it clear that we are still in the EU until the day that the Article 50 has finished....2 years plus. So if we are in then we are in and if we still have to obey rules which is fine then we should still have a say. Or not have to comply with anything new coming in after Article 50 has been invoked, including millions more in bail outs. So we are either still in or we are not, and I hope someone has the b@!!s to tell them that

Have a say on the year to year budgets etc.... but not on it's future.... Why do you think Britain should have any say on the future of something they will not be there to fund or participate in??

Which is why Juncker and every other EU official wants this over and done with as quickly as possible. Then they will be rid of the UK and can move forward without having the UK whinging and complaining about everything and wanting special treatment and opt outs. There is no delay on the EU side but it does appear that the urgency to get our 350 million pounds a week back to spend on the NHS is not so important any longer.

As for the wishful thinking that the EU will collapse without its most troublesome member, the EU were there long before the UK joined and it will still be there long afterwards.

My guess is that the day Farage walks out of the EU Parliament for the last time they will throw a party.

I think the EU response has been very clear and unanimous, the UK has voted, the EU has accepted the vote and want us to go and as soon as possible.

I hope its Boris, we now need the people in charge who were responsible for this decision so that in a few years they can either take credit for what has happened or be called to account.

For about the only time in this saga I agree with Farage. It needs to be one of the leading BREXITERs that leads the negotiation, (I hope Boris does get the job). They should now take full responsibility for what happens as a result of their campaign.

Please no need to do anything they want us to go and as soon as possible. They are not stopping us they are not even offering free cakes if we stay they have asked us to go as soon as possible. Don't people on here ever look at the news?

I think the very fast EU response to suggest to get the divorce over with has surprised many people. It did surprise at least me.

Also the talks about Scotland leaving UK and possibility of Northern Island to do so as well.

It's like everybody are saying "You let the populists take over your country, let's see how it works for you."

It's also one way to say "Now, seriously. Go back and redo your referendum. Find the loophole if necessary. Beg your queen to nullify the vote.".. or we both get hurt, but as you by now already realised, we'll be fine to go forward together or separately.

Well yes - the EU "management team" has quite a record of telling countries whose referendum results don't fit with their plans to go away and hold another one don't they. If memory serves they did it to France, Ireland and The Netherlands?

I suppose it is all part of the inherently democratic nature of the EU ....

I don't know how many times this has to be said or even if you never read any of the regular news items that have been prominent in the last day or so.

The EU have accepted the democratic vote of the UK and have stated there will be no further offer no renegotiation of terms to induce us to stay.

The six ministers of the countries that formed the EU have also stated that they accept the decision and every EU official pronouncement has stated the same.

They are unanimous they want us to leave and to do so as soon as possible.

For some reason those were were so eager to get out do not understand what OUT means and what AS SOON AS POSSIBLE means and are trying to blame the EU for the foot dragging.

I sincerely hope that Boris does get appointed as PM and is in charge of the negotiations to take us out. That way they will not be able to make excuses in the future for whatever transpires.

Please no need to do anything they want us to go and as soon as possible. They are not stopping us they are not even offering free cakes if we stay they have asked us to go as soon as possible. Don't people on here ever look at the news?

I think the very fast EU response to suggest to get the divorce over with has surprised many people. It did surprise at least me.

Also the talks about Scotland leaving UK and possibility of Northern Island to do so as well.

It's like everybody are saying "You let the populists take over your country, let's see how it works for you."

It's also one way to say "Now, seriously. Go back and redo your referendum. Find the loophole if necessary. Beg your queen to nullify the vote.".. or we both get hurt, but as you by now already realised, we'll be fine to go forward together or separately.

Well its certainly surprised many on here. I think a lot of people expected the EU to be begging us blackmailing us threatening us but instead the undemocratic, unelected, totalitarian bureaucrats have stated they they respect the British decision now please go and as soon as possible. Only Farage seems overjoyed Boris looked as glum as could be.

Easy way out just stop paying the subs.

Please no need to do anything they want us to go and as soon as possible. They are not stopping us they are not even offering free cakes if we stay they have asked us to go as soon as possible. Don't people on here ever look at the news?

It will not be Britain that drags out the exit negotiations; it'll be the EU. It's the EU that is in danger of falling apart and desperately looking to replace the cash infusion they just lost.

I don't know how many times this needs saying but try scanning the news today. The EU is calling for an early negotiation and they want us out as soon as possible.

Please read the statements from the top EU officials and Germany and France before repeating this nonsense ad nauseum.

Try listening to Boris stating "there is no rush"

It will not be Britain that drags out the exit negotiations; it'll be the EU. It's the EU that is in danger of falling apart and desperately looking to replace the cash infusion they just lost.

Well it appears that it is the EU that wants to complete this as soon as possible and as you can see from many of the posts here it is the Brexiters who are now dragging their feet. Apparently we will have a new PM by October and then if that is the English Donald Trump he tells us there is no rush. However I can understand your wish for the whole thing to fall apart which is what the Brexiters are hoping for so that they don't have to show us they haven't got the first idea of what comes next.

It's all bluff and rhetoric. This is a devastatimg blow to Germany and France. The UK needs to play hardball.

Please do or at least start playing at the moment you are not even prepared to go on the field. Its the EU that wants to start the game and reach a conclusion its the Brexiters who don't even want to start.

The EU (or it's un elected governors) may wish to deal harshly with the UK. However during the two years or whatever until we actually leave we still have a seat at the table, and can veto and obstruct any moves they may make to hurt us. Some might say business as usual then, until that day when we finally break.

Of course we must hope that the next Prime Minister has the balls to stand up to them.

Personally I think the Boris/Gove show has, but we will see. After all they may not get the jobs.

You don't seem to get it. The longer it drags on, the longer the uncertainty continues. And uncertainty is going to keep businesses from investing in the UK.

To think we were told that we were sending 350 million a week to the EU and the sooner we got the sooner we could spend it on the NHS. We were told once we were free of the dead hand of this totalitarian, unelected, undemocratic, even communist bureaucracy the world was our oyster. Now we are being told we had better wait in case the Dutch or the French have a referendum or even that the whole house of cards is going to come tumbling down any moment and we should wait and not rush things as we might get a better settlement.

I was against the UK breaking up but look at the Scots full of confidence in their own ability and confident that they are better off with the EU than with the bunch of whingers south of their border who are now complaining that they don't want to be rushed into this separation.

The EU was there long before we got into it and started whinging from day one and demanding special treatment and it will be there long after we have been ejected.

The Brexiters are exposed for what they are, despite all the talk they haven't got the first idea of what they want to do.

Evidence for that, just look at Boris when he gave that statement, that was a man brimming with confidence or not.

Just listen to these "Remainers"!

Talk about "spit the dummy"...

I must say, the exiters do have the better ability to brighten up the day.

Ah! Democracy in action!

To think her vote is worth exactly the same as anybody else's!

I always love this quote from Churchill.

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. Winston Churchill

Let's get the hell out as soon as possible.

I agree and that is what the EU wants us to do but some are now getting very cold feet and drumming up all sorts of excuses as to why we should take our time, wait and see. Its sounds just like "Yes Minister"

Juncker and his junta have accepted the decision by the British people, no further negotiations to improve terms no new referendum on those new terms which was always the complaint in the past.

Do you remember the quote we had on this forum by Cromwell some time before the referendum:

Mr Juncker really doesn't get it. Maybe this will help :

Juncker knows that brexit encourages the populations of other member countries to start thinking about leaving the EU.

It makes sense therefore (from the EU's point of view) to start negotiations immediately, and make it clear that the EU is v harsh on those countries that dare to leave.

I doubt the EU can force the UK into invoking article 50 before the UK is good and ready. But perhaps I'm wrong?

I think you are correct and for once the ball is firmly in the UK court and they don't like it hence the child-like response.

Its common sense from their point of view.

How are they going to stop the population of other countries demanding their own referendum? By immediately making it clear that those that leave will be dealt with v harshly. 3 months down the line (as is likely to happen unless the EU can force the UK into invoking article 50 immediately) is already too late. Other countries are already saying that they should also have a referendum.

What you mean is that other politicians like Marie Le Penn have called for a referendum in those countries. Can you name one country where the governing party is demanding a referendum?

However all the rest is pure speculation on your part.

However like Boris you sound so convincing now you have won it fills me with great confidence. I see now that the plan is, lets wait and see if any others follow before we do anything on our own. There was me thinking we couldn't wait to get out of that accursed organization and save all that money.

Why on earth would Brit. govt. want to invoke article 50 immediately?? The EU is still reeling from the shock and 'demanding' that the UK do exactly as you say - so that they can frighten other EU countries that are considering whether they should leave too.

The Brit. govt. is right (although possibly for the wrong reasons, hoping that they can re-negotiate terms and call for another referendum).

From the Brits' point of view it makes far more sense to let individual EU countries make it clear that they need exports to the UK market, and waiting for things to calm down - before invoking article 50 and starting negotiations.

So you spend all those years whinging about being in the EU and now you want to take all the time in the world. It sounds to me as if like many you are having second thoughts. Well I agree with the EU get on with it stop dithering and stop delaying. The bluff has been called and Boris looked very far from convincing when he gave that speech, that wasn't a man that had won the argument.

I can see all the financiers and industrialists being overjoyed at this uncertainty. Don't forget once we got out it was going to be all roses unencumbered by the corrupt totalitarian unelected undemocratic EU bureaucracy. Well lets go what are you waiting for I cannot wait to see it happen, lets put your plan (I assume you do have one) into action. Now Farage on the other hand couldn't stop gloating and we all know his plan, just stop all those nasty foreigners coming to the UK. His economic plan on the other hand seemed rather sketchy if I recall and consisted of saying "SO WHAT" anytime someone mentioned economics.

Read the posts about why its not a good idea for the UK, albeit a v good idea for the EU - and then post again.

I have and you have given no reason whatsoever apart from it not being in our interest. Well I would have thought 350 million a week is a very strong incentive to get out quickly and divert that money to the NHS. Good for the EU get rid of the whingers so that they can get on with their lives. I get the impression that Plan A let along Plan B just doesn't exist.

Yep, totally agree, time to take a breather before moving on, and I am pretty sure is does not say how long you have to invoke article 50. I think Juncker misunderstood the British Public...we voted not to bow to his every whim...so he can wait until we are ready

LOL.

UK populists: I want to leave. I want to leave!

.. vote results come and the fan is messy

EU: Fine, you voted to leave. Let's get this over with.

UK populists: I'm not ready to leave. I will leave when I ready to leave.

I thought a couple of us had pointed out why it is not in the UK's interest to start negotiations immediately? How this is in the EU elites' best interest, but far from a good idea for the UK?

Please answer those points before just posting that the UK should immediately invoke article 50, bearing in mind that it would only help the EU to frighten other member countries that are considering leaving.

So here we are with each week costing us 350 million pounds money that is going to be spent on the NHS and you are now claiming it is not in out best interest to speed things along. This time next week 350, the week after 700 after three weeks we reach a billion however lets take out time its not in our interest to speed things along when its costing us a fortune being in the EU.

The EU are calling your bluff and despite all the guff about what it was costing us being in there now you are getting the chance to leave and save all that money oh dear there is no rush.

Juncker, Tusk, and Schulz represent all that is wrong with the EU. Political fat cats

wanting nothing to do with democracy feeding at the public trough protecting there

fiefdoms and lording over the little people. All of them corrupt and 100% slimy.

You sound like Boris, one moment you want a divorce and the next moment you complain when the other party agrees and wants it done as quickly as possible.

Just accept you've won now please get it over with as soon as possible and we can all move on with our lives.

Why on earth would Brit. govt. want to invoke article 50 immediately?? The EU is still reeling from the shock and 'demanding' that the UK do exactly as you say - so that they can frighten other EU countries that are considering whether they should leave too.

The Brit. govt. is right (although possibly for the wrong reasons, hoping that they can re-negotiate terms and call for another referendum).

From the Brits' point of view it makes far more sense to let individual EU countries make it clear that they need exports to the UK market, and waiting for things to calm down - before invoking article 50 and starting negotiations.

So you spend all those years whinging about being in the EU and now you want to take all the time in the world. It sounds to me as if like many you are having second thoughts. Well I agree with the EU get on with it stop dithering and stop delaying. The bluff has been called and Boris looked very far from convincing when he gave that speech, that wasn't a man that had won the argument.

I can see all the financiers and industrialists being overjoyed at this uncertainty. Don't forget once we got out it was going to be all roses unencumbered by the corrupt totalitarian unelected undemocratic EU bureaucracy. Well lets go what are you waiting for I cannot wait to see it happen, lets put your plan (I assume you do have one) into action. Now Farage on the other hand couldn't stop gloating and we all know his plan, just stop all those nasty foreigners coming to the UK. His economic plan on the other hand seemed rather sketchy if I recall and consisted of saying "SO WHAT" anytime someone mentioned economics.

Juncker, Tusk, and Schulz represent all that is wrong with the EU. Political fat cats

wanting nothing to do with democracy feeding at the public trough protecting there

fiefdoms and lording over the little people. All of them corrupt and 100% slimy.

You sound like Boris, one moment you want a divorce and the next moment you complain when the other party agrees and wants it done as quickly as possible.

Just accept you've won now please get it over with as soon as possible and we can all move on with our lives.

Don't you just love this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDp5ngVeB-A

By the look of Boris when he gave that interview this poor devil isn't the only one.

Its not often that Donald Trump makes me laugh but on a visit to Scotland he tweeted, "Just arrived in Scotland. Place is going wild over the vote. They took their country back, just like we will take America back. No games!"

Someone has tweeted back, "Scotland voted IN you moron"