welo

Convinced my GF to switch from Yahoo to Gmail long ago. The interface is too overloaded especially on Thailand's slow internet.

And best of all, free accounts don't come with POP access, which makes a smooth migration impossible..

Did they do yet another redesign or are you still struggling with the 'new' AJAX interface?

welo

Shame really but while Buyers seek the cheapest solutions - and these cheaper chips from a struggling Nvidia lighten the price by quite a few Dollars - they get what they pay for. If you want the longest life from a Notebook then buy a complete Intel Solution graphics and all.

Last time I checked the Intel chips provided less performance and were cheaper than their ATI and Nvidia counterparts. Don't think blaming the 'Cheap Charlie' attitude here makes any sense.

If the delete was through the WD software, then would suggest using recuva as suggested before to see if it can 'see' the drive. Since a WD erase also kills passwords etc. [according to the user guide on the web] then it may be that this process is a custom one which might not use the default OS mechanism.

Yeah, have been reading something about the WD tools supporting encryption - hope OP didn't use that feature

welo

If I understand the OP correctly then in his case the recorded program would always freeze at the same position, even after several attempts.

Actually I think I had pretty much what the OP was talking about as I often had what I recorded working for 5-10 minutes and then the picture froze but the sound was still working. The box itself was working fine, just the recording was "frozen".

I've been re-reading the original post and re-thinking my statement and came to the conclusion that I don't have enough information on both scenarios to make a definitive statement - please contact my lawyer

I assumed that the OP's problem always occurred at a specific position inside a movie, and that is why he came up with the theory of bad blocks on the harddrive. In such a case (always stops at the same location) I would doubt that the problem is related to power instabilities, which should at least introduce a little bit of randomness. However, re-reading his post it is not really clear to me if my assumption was correct.

I further assumed that a power instability would crash the whole system and not just the video playback. This is how PCs usually react to power instabilities. It seems the PVR is different in this regard.

But anyway, didn't want to discredit your advice! When troubleshooting PC and PC-like devices it is always better to try even very unlikely measures. And suddenly the power stability doesn't seem so unlikely to me any more at all HAHA

welo

Whatever you do, just don't write any new files to the drive until you recovered (unerased) your files. Any write operation might overwrite the 'erased' files and make recovery for the overwritten files impossible.

welo

Good summary! Respect!

Just one point:

Your main problem is the broken second harddisk, which is completely silent when connected to any power source (not spinning up, no noise at all, even when connected to the power source of another PC). I would somehow make that the first point in your problem description since other problems derive from this one.

Not sure how people will react to YOU telling THEM how to fix the problem, especially in Thailand But since you obviously speak Thai well enough to describe all this tech stuff, I guess you know how to handle that without pissing them off LOL

You might ask them some questions in addition to your description:

• Do they think switching the logic board will fix the 2nd harddisk and that the data is not corrupted?
  
• Do they keep disks in stock for those purpose (A) or will they have to switch the board with the 1st (working) harddisk (?
  
• If (A) can you keep the repaired 2nd harddisk, and if ( will they copy the data to a suitable harddisk that can be used in the LaCie box alongside the working 1st harddisk?**
  
• IF the data on the 2nd harddrive is corrupted (meaning damage to the magnetic platters like bad blocks) how does this affect the costs.
  
• Can the data from the first harddrive be recovered even if the 2nd disk cannot be repaired?
  
• 
  

**My guess is that the 2 harddrives in the LaCie RAID don't necessarily have to be of the same model, mostly a properly sized disk will do it.

One last question to you? Is it correct that the device is still starting up? I assume that you retrieved the log file via web interface or telnet.

Good luck!

Keep me updated what's going on!

welo

EDIT: Btw here is a guy on the forum that works/runs a company for professional data recovery services.

I fixed the problem by connecting a UPS to the PVR (a simple, low-cost UPS that I had for my PC), and I am happy to say I have been "freeze" free for a month!

Not sure if the OP has the same problem. A system crash due to power instability would probably not persist after restart. I guess when your box froze you could just restart the box and then continue watching the program from the position where it had stopped.

If I understand the OP correctly then in his case the recorded program would always freeze at the same position, even after several attempts.

Still maybe worth a try and a good hint for anybody who finds this thread having similar problems.

welo

Nikster,

I do understand your frustration so well, but pls do not forget that while you are an advanced and experienced Windows user you are just a newbie on Linux (just like me). Windows just seems so easy because you know all the tricks and workarounds that make it run smooth.

When you are a pro on one thing, it is just sooo frustrating to learn and get used to another thing. And surely even more if this other thing has some glitches and annoyances (which both Linux and Windows have).

@all

I am a bit disappointed that nobody here is interested in a reasonable discussion about software installation/maintenance via central repositories vs. Windows (or maybe OSX) style installer packages. I tried to start one in post nr 16 and 17, but nobody responded other than nikster.

I guess it is far more entertaining to bash somebody who is ranting on Linux than to engage in a real discussion

Like I said before, I do see advantages to the repository approach: Tested compatibility and safety, ease of install (for software in the repository), dependency management. But there are definitely downsides, too: doesn't it favor established software and weaken competition, since unpopular software probably doesn't make it into the repositories? And what about security concerns, since the overhead of repository management tasks might sometimes delay the distribution of important security updates.

Of course the repository approach actually eases the update process for the system as a whole (system plus installed applications), therefore might often actually speed up and promote installation of security updates.

Btw who is responsible of maintaining a package in the repository for a specific distribution. The software vendor / maintainer or the distribution maintainer? Who is to blame if the Java package is out-of-date or the Firefox plugin not working on Ubuntu?

I don't really understand the discussion about the Windows registry here, since it relates more to config files and the /etc folder on Linux than to the discussion about installers and repositories.

I also assume that the times when a blown up Windows registry slowed down the system are long over - isn't it just a database? Nowadays it shouldn't really matter if it has 10.000 or 100.000 entries, it's all about caches and indices anyway...

On Windows I do like software repository sites such as softpedia.com and filehippo.com, and I wished the filehippo update checker could also automatically download and install applications updates.

I hate all those little resident startup applications which sole purpose is to check for updates on one specific software (the Adobe Updater being my nr1 enemy) - why can't that be centralized?

peace

welo

windows considers any connection to itself as a "logged in user". Many software bundles actually "log in" to your system when they are opened. This can even include antivirus. Click task manager then click users to see which real users are logged in. I bet you find youre the only one, and you still get this msg. Pretty much all the replies in this thread are wrong.

Users connected to file shares on the PC will not show up under TaskManager/Users.

Instead goto Control Panel / Administrative Tasks / Computer Management then browse to System Tools / Shared Folders / Sessions to check for active sessions.

No idea where those 'software bundles' that 'actually log in to your system when they are opened' would show up, since I never experienced such a behavior.

Your statement is pretty vague, what kind of 'connections' are we talking about? I'm pretty sure that TCP/IP connections do not trigger such a message in general. But I see that there might be applications that do, as rreddin pointed out SQLServer/Outlook as a possible cause.

I consider a statement such as 'pretty much all the replies in this thread are wrong' as pretty arrogant.

Furthermore you didn't really bother trying to help the OP solve his problem.

Did you actually bother to read the whole thread before coming up with a statement like this?

welo

Some thoughts derived from the log file:

• Operating System in use is indeed a custom Linux build, Kernel version 2.6.12.6
  
• Filesystem used is XFS - XFS, originally developed by Silicon Graphics and then Open Sourced, is supported in all major Linux distributions as of v2.4 - it is not unique to LaCie boxes at all!
  
• The drivers/software used supports various modes ('linear concatenation' as well as RAID0)

  md: linear personality registered as nr 1
  md: raid0 personality registered as nr 2
  md: raid1 personality registered as nr 3
  md: raid10 personality registered as nr 9

  from the log I cannot tell which mode is used. The website I cited yesterday stated 'linear', but we can't be sure.
  
• The first harddisk contains 3 partitions: one for the OS, one for the swap file, and one data partition. Only the latter is XFS. Based on the website cited yesterday the second harddisk does not contain a proper partition table, just the XFS filesystem.
  Hence if you connect the second harddrive to a PC, and even if it did spin up, you would not see a proper partition in most cases (including running MS Windows), the drive appearing empty or unreadable.
  
• The LaCie box still seems to work and is able to boot from the first harddisk, starting up the OS and everything, but fails when starting the XFS data partition.

  md: md0 stopped.
  md: bind<sda2>
  XFS: SB read failed

  sda2 is on the first harddisk, I guess the 'SB read failed' error message is triggered when trying to access the second harddisk.
  The second harddisk is not detected at all (this usually happens very early in the startup process)

  sda: sda1 < sda5 sda6 sda7 sda8 sda9 > sda2
  kernel: Attached scsi disk sda at scsi1, channel 0, id 0, lun 0

  Only sda, no sdb, meaning no 2nd harddisk detected at all.
  
• The beginning of the log file could be explained by the failing second harddrive, causing errors during file access (XFS), then causing the system to shutdown

  Jan 1 18:05:25 (none) user.alert kernel: Filesystem "md0": Corruption of in-memory data detected. Shutting down filesystem: md0
  Jan 1 18:05:25 (none) user.alert kernel: Please umount the filesystem, and rectify the problem(s)

  Upon next boot the 2nd harddisk is not detected anymore.
  

OK, that's a lot of tech talk, so let's get back to your questions.

I'm a bit confused about what about the LaCie box electronics is broken exactly, since the system obviously still works. My guess is that maybe a power surge damaged a component in the LaCie box that provides power to the second harddisk and at the same time also damaged electronic components on the harddisk itself. But this is just a wild guess.

But yes, if you want to fix the LaCie box (not talking about the harddisk) it is best to replace the affected electronics board completely, and this has to be an original spare part. (If the damage is only to an easily replaceable component like a capacitor it might be fixed instead of replaced, but I doubt that).

The point is that there are ways to access the data on the 2 harddisks (after repairing the 2nd) without the LaCie box. Keep this in mind to find the best and most economic solution for you.

About fixing the 2nd harddisk: the real problem there is finding the exact harddisk model and revision to match your drive. The disks itself are standard harddisks, nothing specific to LaCie. LaCie probably made a large order/contract with one of the major manufacturers (Seagate, Maxtor, Hitachi,...) and therefore should have matching models available. Don't know if Maxell Thailand keeps a stock of harddisk for this purpose though.

However, I guess you could always just take the logic board from the first harddisk, switch it to the 2nd, restore the data to another drive of similar capacity, and then put the logic board back on the first disk...

Unfortunately I don't know anybody in Bangkok who I could recommend. I'm sure that there are, at Pantip they do a lot of hard-core hardware fixing, but I just don't know a lot of people there

And since your data is valueable to you, I just can't recommend to ask around - I think it was already quite a bit risky to let some shops mess around with the harddisks. There are very talented people around, but you don't necessarily end up with those when shopping around for a tech.

Did you contact Maxell already for details. I mean 10.000 THB up can mean a lot of things. I would push for a more detailed quote. If you want I can help with a summary of what we found out. Do the have English speaking staff?

welo

I was hoping that you own this model.

It seems that this model doesn't use RAID0 but just the mentioned simpler 'concatenation' mode called SPAN or JPOD.

Few facts about the Lacie Big Disk Ethernet (1TB)

• It is Using a custom built Linux to run
  
• It uses JBOD (linear / span) to build a 1TB disk out of two 500GB.
  

source: http://snorripall.com/recovering-data-from-lacie-big-disk

I assume that the 2TB model works the same, even though we cannot rule out that your model is newer and uses a different mode, but I very much doubt it.

Based on the linked website and the comments posted there it is possible to connect the individual harddisks from the LaCie box to a PC directly and use Linux to access the data.

There seems to be nothing 'proprietary' about the LaCie box other than it runs Linux and uses software RAID drivers to build a single large partition based on two physical drives. Seems I was right about the LaCie support not being technically accurate.

My conclusion (assuming that the information given on the linked website is correct):

Data on the first harddisk should be mostly recoverable in any case (no matter whether the second harddisk can be fixed or not), since the LaCie box just spans the two individual drives to one large logical drive in a linear way - meaning any file written is not necessarily spread over the two drives, but defragmentation might still result into parts of a file being split between drives, especially for large files.

Your second harddisk still needs a non-trivial repair (switching electronics with an identical drive).

Assuming that the second harddisk can be fixed and the magnetic platters and therefore the data is not corrupted, it is possible to access the data even without the identical LaCie drive. I would not consider this task trivial but doable by an advanced user / technician with some Linux skills.

Still, if Maxell can do the whole process for 1x.xxx,- 10.000,- THB I would go for it, especially if it includes the fixed harddisk (updated after EDIT below)

Just not let them dramatize the RAID recovery process which is fairly simple (if the actual data on the second harddrive is not corrupted!!) - I'd consider fixing the electronics on the second harddisk to be the difficult part of the job, but maybe that's because I'm software engineer and I don't like hardware stuff like that

EDIT: well, doesn't seem to hard to change a harddisk's logic board... http://www.deadharddrive.com/

A basic electronic system failure.

Really here we are talking about power spikes or surges that affect the controller board of the hard disk. This then knocks out the hard disk and the BIOS has no idea it exists anymore. You will often see a burn if you take the drive out and have a look. You will here no spinnning at power on, the drive is effectively dead. source: http://data-recovery.mirandasbeach.com/

welo

Hallelujah!

OK, I've been re-reading the whole thread again and it seems we are still missing out on the most important fact - how does the LaCie box write the data to the disks.

I assumed it is set that it uses RAID0 which means it spreads data over the 2 drives to increase performance. This is deduced from what you said that the LaCie support told you ('proprietary RAID0').

But actually the 'LaCie 2big Dual' supports various modes. Not sure if this is your model but I assume that most of similar LaCie boxes support different modes.

You write that 'The drive is nearly full and about half of the 2TB is critical data'. If your drive showed up on your PC with a capacity of about 2TB (instead of about 1TB) then you probably configured it in one of the non-mirror modes (bad!). Still, the LaCie drive I googled supports a RAID0 mode as well as a 'concatenated' mode. The latter might be considerably easier to recover, since files are not (necessarily) spread over two disks. It is sometimes referred to as SPAN or JBOD (whereas JBOD can also refer to usage as 2 individual drives). On this model one uses a rotary switch on the enclosure to configure the mode.

So what is the exact model of LaCie box you have, and what mode was it configured to use. Did you have 2TB available or (considerably) less?

I also recommend going with a professional company, maybe Maxell, though I would clarify those questions before. Then you can provide more detailed information about the state of your box and they should be able to tell you before if they can recover data or not and how much it will cost.

EDIT: Of course do not mess around with the mode switch - your box is not operational but still, switching modes would re-initialize the RAID and delete any data, so better avoid any risk.

welo

Just to repeat what has already been said, but in more simple language. When writing files to the RAID each single file will not be placed on either one of the drives but parts of it will be written to one drive while other parts of the same file will be written to the other drive.

Hence if one disk fails maybe half of the data is lost and the file cannot be recovered as a whole. Recovering only parts of the file from the healthy drive contents is nearly impossible for most file types.

Sorry, if you have understood this already, just want to make sure.

I also assume that the File Allocation Table (the index of all files on the RAID) is located on the first harddrive, but of course holds the location of ALL files on the entire RAID. Actually I don't know how the FAT (File Allocation Table) is organized on RAID-0 setups, but since you said in your very first post that the IT shop could see folders on the first drive I assume that it somehow conforms to the standard and therefore can be read. However, I further assume that as soon as you try to copy one of the files the process will fail since the actual data to the file cannot be found. The files and folders seem to be present but it is actually only information on the structure and names you see, and the actual file contents is not accessible.

This is probably where the part about the 'proprietary' system comes into play. Maybe this File Allocation Table does not conform to standard RAID-0 and therefore can only be interpreted by LaCie's own firmware. It IS possible but I would not rely on this information given by the LaCie support too much. It might as well have been their effort to try to explain you that RAID-0 drives cannot be easily accessed individually. But a Google search might turn up an answer to this...

However, I am still confused about what exactly is wrong with the second harddrive. You did not really answer that question. Is the 'main circuit' on the 2nd harddisk broken or do you refer to some electronics in the RAID box.

You repeatedly stated that there is no sound from the second harddrive, so I conclude that it does not spin up and 'main circuit' refers to the electronics on the harddisk itself.

If the second harddisk has a hardware failure your best bet is a problem with the electronics. If the magnetic platters are severely damaged (maybe due to a head crash) it will be very difficult to recover.

Changing the electronics board on the harddrive with that from an identical working model can be done (by a professional) and should allow you to place the two harddrives back into the LaCie box and access the data. Of course, if the LaCie box is also damaged you will need to fix/replace this box, too.

Please remember that you should not do any WRITE operation to any of the disks. You risk that the data is corrupted or lost, especially if you try to access the harddisks individually with a non RAID0 system/driver.

Your best chance is to keep the first harddisk unaltered, then fix the second drive (by a professional), hoping that the magnetic platterns and therefore the data is still OK, and then find a way to access the setup (both disks together) with fitting RAID0 drivers.

If LaCie indeed uses a proprietary RAID0 system then this has to be the LaCie box, otherwise any RAID0 system (e.g. a Linux PC) might work. Of course this again is nothing for an average user and should be done by a professional who has experience with RAID systems.

For instance I would try that myself only if the data is not essential, like a mp3/movie archive which is 'nice-t0-have' but not a problem if the data is lost.

Most harddisk data recovery software will only work on a single drive, and maybe be able to recover data fragments (because the data for each file is spread over both disks). It actually depends on the RAID0 algorithm how big those data junks are. I guess small files might not be fragmented at all, but I do not have any experience on that matter.

The recovered data of fragmented files will be of very limited use, and most file types will not be accessible by the associated program and just report a 'corrupted file' error message or similar. You might be able to extract fragments of some text based formats, but it will be cumbersome work and, again, the results will be very disappointing. For instance from a Word or PDF document you will not be able to retrieve any formatting and layout information (if the file has been spread over 2 disks), just fragments of raw text.

I would consider that your last choice if you don't find a way to fix the 2nd harddrive and restore the RAID.

welo

This messgae can only happen if the person is logged on to the machine locally or the machine is a server if somebody tries to logon to the machine by remote connection then the pc screen would go blank when the person is connected

This information is correct but not complete. Please read post #6 on this thread which quotes a good article that describes in detail what can cause said message. If the article is correct a connected file share can also cause the same message.

Assuming that the router protects the PC from remote connections from the internet (NAT) an 'attack' is likely to originate from the local network, hence somebody 'hacking' the wireless connection to the access point (here the wireless router) is possible and can easily be ruled out by checking the list of connected devices on the access point (wireless router).

Of course a trojan infection that opens a backdoor to the PC and allows attackers from the internet to connect in a similar way is also possible. I am not sure though if such trojans usually use standard windows features and would hence trigger such a message or they implement their own remote control protocol to avoid being detected like that.

I personally would rather consider a more mundane explanation such as some issue with Windows XP Fast User Switching and turn it off (see nam-thips post) to rule out this possibilty first.

However, I would not ignore the problem since it might be a sign for a very serious security problem.

welo

It is most probably some kind of virus, this only comes up when a second person is also logged onto the machine, if somebody was also using your wireless connection then they would be attached to your router and not the PC,

I guess what Cuban meant was to check if somebody else is connected to OP's wireless router then this person might also have tried to connect to his/her PC, causing said issue.

I run Office 2003 Professional with the small business pack. It came pre-installed when I bought my computer. It runs MS SQL server. If I turn off the SQL server, many of the functions attached to Outlook are unavailble, so I let it run. I have no SQL knowledge.

Ok, sorry, didn't know that. Seems Outlook is way to bloated

Did you notice similar issues as the OP?

welo

Good advise given so far from more knowledgeable people than I am. Still, I want to point out that you should try to clarify whether the second harddisk has a hardware failure or not.

You've said that some component on the 'mainboard' is broken - are you referring to the electronics of the 'enclosure' or to one of the actual harddisks?

As stolidfeline has already mentioned, there might have been a misunderstanding. Does the second drive really not spin up when connected to a power source (meaning no sound at all) or is it that the file system/data is just not accessible.

If the harddisk suffered a hardware failure you will need an expert to access the data (switch parts with an identical working harddisk), otherwise you will 'only' need the Lacie device (the 'enclosure', not the 2 harddisk) fixed or replaced.

I am basically just repeating what the other posters already said in one way or the other..

welo

He is 'using a computer for 2 years', do you really think he runs a SQL server?

Otherwise interesting piece of information.

welo

Try to track down your problem more specifically.

Is it really only the wireless module that causes issues (A) or is it that ( your internet connection is not stable when connected through your Belkin router via wireless.

If (A) it can be a problem with the router or with your laptop, and of course both hardware or software related - or just a basic problem with the stability of the wireless signal due to distance, walls, interference, etc.

If ( a software (firmware) problem with your Belkin router is very likely. You might also suffer from double NATing, if your ISP modem is a router by itself, and the Belkin device providing router functionality on top of that. Most likely in this case you would have the same issues when connecting to the router by wire.

In both cases there are several action which you might take to troubleshoot and track down your problem further. However, I recommend checking first which of the two basic categories you fall in.

Turn off the wireless adapter on your laptop (using the hardware switch) and connect your laptop to the Belkin router by cable (NOT to the Maxnet directly). Test for a view hours. If you still have the same problems, this points to ( and it might get tricky for a novice user to solve. Otherwise you can troubleshoot your wireless connection (A).

welo

When it comes to web browsers, I would not necessarily consider 'speed' the most important criteria.

When looking at Javascript performance some compiler options will not speed up Firefox enough to be able to compete with Chrome, the difference is just too big.

Did anybody find a good review/comparison between Pale Moon and the default Firefox built? Just looked around but didn't find anything reliable, just buzz talk without any solid facts. I know the Pale Moon website lists benchmarks but those seem very limited in scope (focusing on very specific programmatic patterns) and say nothing about real world scenarios.

I am sticking with Firefox due to its addons (Chrome might catch up with its new extension platform) and for sentimental reasons - it was the Mozilla project that saved us from living hel_l on earth with a stagnating Internet Explorer.

I am in no position to comment on 'the best' download manager. When it comes to freeware 'Free Download Manager' is surely a nice pick and its rich feature-set will satisfy most users (with the exception of flash movie downloads - they are working on this feature but last time I checked it was still not usable yet).

welo

^

I agree, Internet Download Manager combines the pros of Free Download Manager with Orbit's Flash Download capabilities. I am just to stingy to buy it, so I don't use it

welo

Orbit Downloader

Not my favorite download manager in general, but it really offers nice flash media download options (not limited to youtube). Integrates with all major browsers.

welo

^

+1 from me.

And don't forget about changing the explorer setting to show hidden files and folders. Or use WinDirStat which probably shows all folders regardless of the Explorer setting (not sure on this one though)

welo

My guess is that Explorer is set to not show Hidden Program and System Files (just like Beggar set)

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/h...iddenfiles.mspx

and that the temp folder contains some massive files which are always safe to delete.

If you are not too familiar with Windows use ccleaner to get rid of temporary files and other junk.

http://www.softpedia.com/get/Security/Secu.../CCleaner.shtml

Standard setting will also wipe Web browser history, stored passwords and form data - be sure you untick those options in the IE or Firefox settings if you want to keep them.

However, CCleaner will never delete any user created files, so it is safe to use also for novice users.

welo