xbusman

Yes, thats one way of saying it, "a fly in the ointment".

That is a lovely analysis of how to determine costing for the application of taxes and duties, its a real shame you don't work for the Thai Customs department.

What you will find is that if the model is not being manufactured now, they will pick a comparable model along the lines of a BMW Z4 which they do have good information on. Then the tax calculations will change a little bit but nothing you cant handle. By the way, I love that discount for being a used vehicle. I have yet to see Customs apply that discount to anything.

The commerce department can set any price, real or imaginery, for the import license. I can assure you that Customs has no interest in that valuation what so ever. Only makes sense really, I can value a waste carbon mineral for 300 baht but when customs opens it and finds a diamond they have a tendency to adjust according to reality. The reality here is that there is little to no chance your car will ever grace your workshop.

Your best bet is to remove the axles and engine before shipping and send those in a different container. You could actually end up with enough to put together if your pockets are deep enough. Be sure to agree on the size of the bribe with Laem Chabang before shipping and dont bring both containers through the same port. Even with the level of bribes agreed to, things could change when your container goes into bonded storage for paperwork "ploblems" .

You also realize that getting a green book for your car will be very difficult. Thankfully, the chance of your needing a green book is too small to require addressing at this time.

Best of luck, we have not had a good wailing and gnashing thread since Tuk Tuk Mike lost his pride and joy, looking forward to your updates.

A quick perspective on this classic case that should be filed under lessons learned. It is a microcosm of life in Thailand and you can laugh and ridicule all you want but this is simply on a different level than what most of us operate on.

There are those that bought this card and got a few years good use out of it. Maybe their companies paid for it, maybe they had a million in loose change they dug out of their sock drawer. During that time, they got easy visas, VIP treatment at the airports, lots of golf. I know for a fact they had excellent resources in the government to get things done when Thaksin was still around. They wont notice that the card is gone other than their limo will be different when they head to the airport.

Before we get too smug about those who paid for the card with real earned money that had significance in their lives, those who are preparing the balcony for tomorrows Pattaya Mail morning edition, its not a bad idea to review our investment here. If it can happen to people of power and significance, it highlights how tenuous our grip is in this society.

Lessons learned:

Never part with cash here for anything other than that which you can hold and feel. If they offer a five year visa which is renewable, then its a five year visa. We make all sorts of assumptions that simply are not true here. If it was a lifetime visa, then they would have issued a lifetime visa and made it valid for 90 days at a time. Since they did not, aint it easy to see that the Executive branch of government did not have the power to create a visa and get immigrations to honor it? Hindsight is great stuff with other peoples problems.

If you look at an empty half finished condo for 4 million baht and the builder promises to finish the condo, you are buying an empty half finished condo for 4 million baht. If it actually progresses and you complain, you could end up with a bullet in your neck.

Even if you get the goods, take inventory and be fully aware that you might have to walk away tomorrow. There are going to be at least a few Elite cardholders that do not qualify for another visa. Under 50, no biz, no marriage, no sense. Thankfully they can make 15 day visa runs forever, and hopefully they have the money to do so in a private car.

Its all great fun until someone loses an eye so settle down and think about the ramifications of what this means to you and your life.

I love it here, cant imagine living anywhere else, but I am determined not to be stupid about it. I dont think I am brave enough to stand on a balcony railing.

Can I buy ping pong at Patpong?

No, but I hear you can buy Ping from Pong in Pat Pong.

You can, but Pongs Ping are ting tong in pat tong.

(say that ten times fast)

I bet that number is pretty accurate. A piece of plywood on Sukhumvit is a minimum 10k monthly with no electricity and not a prime location, such as down Soi 5 or some such. I think its pretty close to 20k a month with electricity and on Sukhumvit between Soi 3 and Soi 11. I would guess Patpong to be around 30K.

Personally, I think the TE card fits perfectly with the insanity that is Thailand politics. No one knows, very few care, and as long as someone keeps the cash coming everyone will ignore the problem until it collapses in a major disaster. No one will be responsible when it happens, there will always be an external reason such as airports, coupe, whatever.

There is good money to be made in Thailand and plenty of reasons to be here but it again proves the theory of never putting more money here than you can walk away from. As with almost everything in Thailand, there will be people who can smoke 1M baht for breakfast without noticing who got some value for this chump change and can walk away without any regrets. Then there will always be those who followed bad advice and put more into the latest scheme then they could afford to lose. A fool and his money is soon parted.

I think this program clearly had benefits for some people and clearly was a completely foolish investment for some people not familiar with life in a country where law is more arbitrary and changing than the weather. Dont denigrate the idea because of a few morons who neither do due diligence or failed in elementary math.

I am reminded of my youth in which I was so impressed with the Jaguare XKE I just had to own one. Spending way to much, I purchased a model I could ill afford and spent the next months towing it back home on about every jaunt. They are a beautiful car, but really you need a vast amount of cash and follow tow truck to enjoy one. There are people who can do that, I was not one of them. Thailand Elite falls into the same category. I am glad I learned my lesson early, it helps keep me off Pattaya balconies.

Another way to think about the possibility is to compare the idea to the Elite program. That was a lifetime visa for 1 million baht and assorted other benefits. Someone under fifty would amortize that amount over twenty years, add the golf and spa in and that comes out to about 50,000 baht yearly. A much better deal and yet they probably only put together about 1500 paying customers. At 400,000 for a five year, or around 80,000 baht per year, I doubt you could put together even 100 takers even with an expensive marketing program.

Your probable range for success would be between 100,000 and 200,000 baht for a five year as long as there were no 90 day runs or re-entry costs.

I agree with Simon43, I could walk away from 100,000 and would figure that the visa would be good for at least two years, maybe the full five. At two years, it would be about break even if I did not need to do 90 day runs.

Thats walking money but you are in thinner air than mine if your walking money is 400,000

As usual, I agree with Ol Red Eyes. The storm that is coming is going to be a long nasty one with new paradigms on the other side.

They have vehicle traffic shut down to and from the airport. People are being forced to walk in and out of the airport through the cargo terminal. I would guess about two or three kilometers. Traffic is backed up forever, its an absolute mess.

I do it every week. Short answer, its going to cost you a lot of money. The EPA test alone will run you about $2000 and thats just one sheet of paper in a group of papers that can make a tree weep.

The only real show stopper is that you need to have an import license to bring auto or motorcycle parts in. I am not real sure you could get that, and without it I dont think you will be able to clear customs on all the boxes. Some of them will be no problem but anything with a serial number (frame or engine) usually requires an import license.

Its more money than you want to donate for something with uncertain results at best.

Sounds like a walk away situation to me. Like Monson, you could spend a lot more than 300K trying to collect and never get anything back.

Never put more in Thailand than you are willing to walk away from and its walkin time.

About 1995, over 300 kph in a Nascar test car with a driver by the name of Richard Petty at Talledega during a practice run on his farewell tour. I like speed but that was a bit terrifying. Gave me a whole new appreciation of racing though....

Thats as long as it passes all the environmental tests from the Ministry of Standards. Oh yeah, dont forget you have to pay excise taxes as well. All the above should not take more than a year or so, along with a few hundred thousand baht. Your car has little to no chance to pass the emissions test unless it is a new model (maybe within the last three years or so), with little to no use (say under 20,000 kilometers) and low horsepower. Always kills me to fight that battle for .0001 millegrams of NO2 while thinking of the busses on Ramkaemhang.

So to recap.

Emissions test

Excise Tax

Exact and correct paperwork from Customs

Permission to import documentation from Commerce ministry

Proper visa and work permit status to register vehicle

If you ever need someone to program your IBM systems 24 with punched cards in EITHER Cobol or RPG3, I am yo man. Got on the USENET in may 1979, how do I remember that foray into cyberspace? Had to call into another university and log in then send a request to my university to remove my rather prodigious parking violations allowing me graduate a week later. Used a rotary phone and set it on a "modem" that was about the size of a Prius, from whence it raged through data at about 64 bits per second. Speeds like that left a lasting impression.

Search button is upper right corner. This topic has been done to death.

They bought a few boards for their many bars and know the folks who make them in Phuket. They are good boards, leather covered and wear well. I am sure they could get one for you from their supplier.

Metro bar on Soi 4 in the back of the Raja parking lot has a backgammon board that gets way too much use. You can buy them there too, very nice leather ones made in Thailand.

I have noted the same thing and speculated on it occasionally. I think that since the pricing of motorcycles is somewhat fixed, making money with a dealership has to do with inventory and overhead, ergo the reason these shops are small with a very limited selection. You will probably find that a dealership is required to have a minimum count, not a minimum value, and the natural response would be to buy the cheapest models for flooring. I have seen very few phantoms in stock in my wanderings.

Having said that, I have been half in the market for a few new ones and keeping my eyes open for any shop that might carry one. I have run across a few and will take a look for you to see if they are still around. We also have some Phantoms with extremely low mileage (under 5000 kilometers) that are reasonably priced.

Have brought over more than few containers of secondhand Harleys, we have all makes, all models, all conditions. Can get clean legal green books for all of em too. We get between 17 to 24 to a box, 60% down, balance when it clears the port. Guaranteed complete and as promised. Spare parts bought with bike are sold at dealer cost plus actual tariff, so a good time to load up on things like tires and options. Takes me about two weeks to put together a container of used, one week for a container of new. Just that simple, all you have to do is get out yer wallet.

We have a few hundred in stock, both new and used, in the US. If there is enough interest I could put together a container or two and bring them in.

We carry Honda, Yamaha, and Bombardier. No chinese models at this time.

What are your prices for various models/sizes? I would be interested if the price was right.

I have never brought anything under 200ccs into Thailand so I dont know what they might run. Over 200ccs you are looking at NADA retail plus about 400 to strip them down and rebuild, 200 shipping, and 30% import duties.

Thats puts them on the ground without Tabien Lot.

Give me a model and a year and I can give you NADA retail. I would need to put together a container though, one or two bikes at a time are not worth the hassle. I could probably do new ones for dealer cost + about $200.

I have a few questions perhaps the more learned members might know.

When we talk foreign reserves, who exactly owns the foreign reserves. Is this excess government money laying about? I always sort of thought it was private money (business) that is on deposit from a surplus of trading. When exports exceed imports.

My understanding is that the trading done by the BOT is done with the reserve currency on deposit from commercial banks, the BOT does not in fact "own" this money. I have also read on occasion that the losses in that trading have been stunning as they generally bet against the market, and that there is a real question as to who is going to pay for those losses. In fact, various sources have mentioned that the losses from 1997 from the central bank intervention have yet to be fully retired, only the IMF part has been paid back.

Regards volatility, I look over the currency charts every day and see the baht making a steady and gradual increase day by day. This is broken by huge spikes of someone selling baht at far below market price. I assume those are sales by the BOT which in addition to being major money losers, create the only real "volatility" in the pretty tame trading.

Being that there are so few real traders of Thai baht, and knowing a bit about Thailand and how it works here, I have to ask myself the question of "why" the BOT wants to actually increase volatility and make continuous massive losses by betting against the market. Who might be buying these baht at tremendous discounts and making many millions with each trade?

I think I read once where the BOT went through somewhere around 40 billion in reserves in 97 within less than four weeks. While 109 billions is impressive, I am still not sure who owns that money and why the BOT would be so interested in losing it.

Zorro, mostly people lose property here from the arbitrary and constant changes in work permit and visa rules. There is the odd fraudulent situation where papers are not in order, forged, or other shenanigans. Occasionally they become uninhabitable from lack of maintenance.

Plenty of ways to lose ones investment here, and new ones being invented every day. As for actually losing a condo as in "dam_n where did I put that last night" it is pretty rare. I think that is more related to developers improperly gaining rights to land (as in Samui) or building incorrectly (as the ones out by MoChit that were too high) or overselling to farangs as the Pattaya group like to do on occasion.

My previous post was sarcastic somewhat and was hoping wrong turn would answer. changes to visas wouldn't have an impact on ownership if I'm reading you correctly the person is unable to stay but the property is still his allowing him/her to sell or rent. Lack of maintenance is a concern as it is in other countries same with fraud and building outside parameters. I really don't see it being that much different to anywhere else of course unless were talking land in the wife's name

You are correct, the problem being is that it can be challenging to sell property when you are in it, but when you are persona non grata I think it might be infinitely more challenging. Then the problem of getting the money out of the country, the paperwork, etc. Not something I would want to face. Hard enough to get things done when here.

Regards the fraud, in countries with the rule of law, you might have a fighting chance. Here, you have little to no chance of prevailing in the Judicial system. Way too many proofs of that theorem to even open that can of worms. It is frighteningly different than the west as is any third world country where the law is used more to control the population than to protect them. That is probably the hardest thing for expats to come to terms with, its so alien to our thought process and cultural assumptions. Its this environment that sustains the fraud and forgery.

Zorro, mostly people lose property here from the arbitrary and constant changes in work permit and visa rules. There is the odd fraudulent situation where papers are not in order, forged, or other shenanigans. Occasionally they become uninhabitable from lack of maintenance.

Plenty of ways to lose ones investment here, and new ones being invented every day. As for actually losing a condo as in "dam_n where did I put that last night" it is pretty rare. I think that is more related to developers improperly gaining rights to land (as in Samui) or building incorrectly (as the ones out by MoChit that were too high) or overselling to farangs as the Pattaya group like to do on occasion.

We have a few hundred in stock, both new and used, in the US. If there is enough interest I could put together a container or two and bring them in.

We carry Honda, Yamaha, and Bombardier. No chinese models at this time.

An article in my local paper in Scotland printed this:-

Thailand's king is the richest royal in the world - leaving Queen Elizabeth trailing in 12th place. King Bhumibol Adulyade, 80 the world's longest-reigning monarch, has £18.79 billion assets. Our Queen has £349 million and The United Arab Emirates Sheikh Khalifa Bin Zayed was second with (£12.35 billion). The Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah Bin Abdulaziz third(£11.27bn).

How can there be so much poverty in Thailand when a king has so much?

Its a sufficiency thing and if you understand it, you have been in Thailand too long.