kikenyoy

I guess the first step would be for you to describe your definition of "fluent". On forums like the one at http://how-to-learn-any-language.com the topic has been debated to death and there is still no agreed upon standard. Opinions range from being able to "get by" in daily life to being able to attend a University and be able to understand and participate in a lecture on any subject.

Based on your standard, the number will vary greatly.

Hi, I'm wondering why you need a Thai teacher that speaks English?

I had two different and very good teachers at AAA in Bangkok; neither of them spoke English, and I would have been irritated if they did.

So what about all those questions you just want answered quickly in terms you can understand? I know you can look up an unknown word in a dictionary in three seconds and move on with the lesson, but my teachers would never let me use a dictionary. Instead, we had to digress from the lesson for ten minutes or more till I 'got it' (and sometimes I didn't get it, or was not sure if I'd got it until I got out of the class and checked the dictionary.) However, none of that is the point - it's in those communicative exchanges where you really need to understand that the real work of 'learning' takes place. Don't sell yourself short and revert to English to answer a question quickly - like they say in mathematics class, its not the answer that's important but the working out.

If you want to learn Thai, my advice is forget your English.

Best

Sw

I think the key phrase is "very good teachers". My last teacher worked in a hotel for a number of years and when she moved to Pattaya she decided to be a teacher. She only received about 3 months of training. She had no idea of how to teach someone with previous knowledge and was disinterested at times.

I think your method can work with very good teachers, but it is perhaps more appropriate for more advanced students. If the student doesn't understand something and doesn't have the vocabulary to understand the explanation then it would seem to be needlessly frustrating for the student just for the sake of following the rule of only speaking Thai. Although if that's the case then one could argue that the material is probably too difficult for the student.

The method that I prefer is to conduct the lesson in Thai. If I don't understand something then ask the question in Thai (if I can) and have the reply be in Thai. If I still don't understand then explain it in English. I don't like the ambiguity of partially understanding the reply then trying to confirm it later with a dictionary or another source.

As a example, in a book I just received , there are a couple phrases that appear to be quite similar in meaning at first glance. If the difference is subtle, then I might not be able to understand the difference in Thai, but I would easily if a fluent English speaker explained it. Since they are "fixed constructions" the option of confirming the meaning in a dictionary isn't always possible.

I don't have a background in education and in the little that I've read about second language acquisition it seems people disagree about the best methods. For me, I just think of it in terms of:

1) I have a question

2) Try to ask/reply in Thai

3) Confirm with English if necessary

4) My Thai improves

But maybe that's too results oriented.

I tried Pattaya Language and Computer center lightly east of carefour on Pattaya Klang.

I bought 10 lessons but only went to 3. That should tell you enough. My last lesson, the teacher was just about falling asleep while I was reading; she was supposed to be correcting my pronunciation - I found out too late her English wasn't good enough to really do anything other than work on my pronunciation.

Maybe if you're an absolute beginner, but otherwise, I wouldn't waste your money as I did.

Sadly, this has been my experience as well. I have had four teachers...two were terrible (no English, can't teach anything other than what's in the books) and two were good. One of the good ones is now teaching at a University and the other one has about 3 jobs and a kid and was always late or re-scheduling/canceling.

I just found a tiny school in Jomthien on the main road near Tepprasit. I haven't talked to her yet, but the farang next door said he can't vouch for her teaching ability, but her English is very good. If I decide to go then I'll give you a review.

[quote name='Mosha'

(It's not words that are the same that bothers me, it's words that when spoken mean something different. eg ow )

I hope this doesn't bother you too much...there must be thousands of them!

stamp

computer

strawberry

apple (ap-pun, close enough?)

condo

apartment

steak

chocolate

romantic

coffee (cafe)

bar

Is it illegal to smoke on baht buses? I'd say about 5-10% of them have no smoking signs in the back.

I almost got in a fight with a farang who was smoking in one. He said that since it is open air it is fine. Meanwhile he was complaining about inhaling the dust from the construction!

I usually just move away from them or get off, but there was a pregnant Thai woman sitting nearby who was complaining about it so I felt I had to speak up.

โคตร spelling, sorry,

Never heard this before - what does it mean please? I'm also not sure how to parse the spelling into pronunciation - /koh-dton/ ? or is it one of those teenage anomalies /koh-dor/ or even /kohd/ (sic 'Code?)

Lexitron just give the meaning as 'generation', but the sample sentence they offer looks like an equivocation:

แม่ค้า 2 คนในตลาดทะเลาะกันและด่ากันไปถึงเจ็ดชั่วโคตร

[Mum, two people in the market were arguing and swearing for ages!]

I think เจ็ดชั่วโคตร is an idiom, so I'm still none the wiser as to what โคตร means or what context you would use it in (especially ones where you would have to remind yourself not to use it?!)

Cheers in advance for your help.

It is pronounced "kohd".

As I understand it, it is an impolite way of saying "very". It can be used either positively or negatively.

โคตรสวย

f*cking beautiful

โคตรเบื่อ

f*ucking bored

I know next to nothing about linguistics, but I saw an opportunity to further "enliven" the thread and couldn't help myself.

Also from Wiki:

Although commonly referred to as the "Thai alphabet", the character set is in fact not a true alphabet but an abugida, a writing system in which each consonant may invoke an inherent vowel sound, described as an implied 'a' or 'o'

Wiki is not always the greatest source so I am also interested in hearing what others have to say about it.

Music is fun to listen to and you can learn some new vocabulary, but I think it's terrible to use as a main method for learning a language. Lyrics don't have to be grammatically correct and are often not literal in meaning.

If you want to hear audio with scrolling text then a dvd with subtitles is a much better choice in my opinion.

*edit to add: If you are looking for something more basic, I have seen some programs for learning English that use this method but I don't know the exact title.

For learning the tones with words, rather than include them in an association, I try to learn simply the FIRST LETTER of the word (i.e. the Thai symbol).

Written Thai uses an alphabet, with consonants and vowels, i.e., "letters" - not "symbols."

One would think that a person studying written Thai for seven weeks with the avowed presumption of "fluentin3months," would have learned that much.

If you want to be that technical about it...Thai uses an abugida, NOT an alphabet.

Polyglot - you also appear to have difficulties in English comprehension. If you were to re-read my post you may notice I did not at any time criticize your attempt to do what appears to be rather difficult. However I was critical of your deprecating use of the word "boy" and comments to critisize "mangkorn" - which in my opinion shows your immaturity.

Assuming you actually considered both posts "egobashing" - it would appear your ego is rather fragile - suggesting - but not proving - there is very little substance behind your claims.

I also feel - there is too much "negativity" by posters in their lack of ability to learn Thai. Their "impossible hurdles" to overcome tend to be mostly - in their minds. Therefore, I welcome your efford to show many of us that it can be done in a comparitively short time. Hopefully your "intense efford" will show results which you can demonstrate. Should you feel you have not been as successful as you had planned - I still suggest make comments on the specific difficulties you encountered to learn Thai.

And most of all - continue to be an Optimist.

Parvis,

Such hostility from what I would be willing to bet is a misunderstanding on your part.

"Boy" can be used in a demeaning way: " You don't know as much as you think, boy". But it can also be a general exclamation: "Boy that was a great game!"

Go back and read his replies. He writes @(username) a space, then starts his reply. If he formatted his post in a different way I don't think you'd find it offensive.

Mangkorn,

Boy when you go off on a rant you really go for it.

It seems like you're really overreacting especially since the post wasn't even directed at you.

There are two phrases you want; one is; kaw-duu-gon (ขอดูก่อน) which is what every thai I know says, and translates as "May (I) look before". The other one is if you're just browsing indifferently and is; kaw-duu-cheeuy-cheeuy (ขอดูเฉย ๆ) "May (I) look" yet because it has cheeuy-cheeuy (เฉย ๆ) it carries the meaning of looking "indifferently" without any commitment to purchase. (I also put the word "I" in quotes as those sentences do not have a pronoun as it is understood in context to mean the speaker.

I agree with kaw duu gon....this one to me implies that you are interested in buying. "Can I be left alone to look around a bit before I talk to you about buying something?"

I've never used kaw with "doo cheeuy cheeuy". I use this when I'm killing time wandering around the mall before a movie starts and I don't plan on buying anything. I don't think you have to ask permission (kaw) to browse. I say it with a smile and have never gotten the impression that I was being rude by not using kaw.

Try Boomerang instead. Here's their product page for the Tintin box set. 709 baht for the set.

I originally saw it at Boomerang but it was marked "reserved" and was behind the counter so I didn't bother to ask the price. Found it at B2S and figured they would be about the same price...oops. Oh well, even at 1050 baht I think it's a great deal.

I've watched a couple more episodes and I occasionally find a translation that seems like it is a bit too literal and doesn't sound quite right (and one that was laughably bad) but I'm really enjoying them and I think overall they are pretty good. Next time my daughter comes to visit I'll try to get her to watch a few episodes and give me her opinion of the Thai.

I just bought a box set of Tintin cartoons and they are at the perfect level of difficulty for me. I watched a few episodes for fun then just re-watched the first episode again with the Thai and English subtitles on and pausing it to look up any unknown words. When I paused it to read the subs I could easily understand everything except for a few new words, but when I listened to it I felt like it was just a bit too fast...which is perfect!

These were originally produced in French, then translated to English and finally Thai so I'm taking anything I learn with a grain of salt but it seemed pretty good. I only found one sentence that seemed a bit "off". Tintin is selecting a horse and the first one kicks him off. The stable owner gives him another one to try:

"You'll be happy with this one"

คุณจะต้องมีความสุขกับมันแน่นอน

I think พอใจ or ชอบ would be better (but I'm unsure)

To give an idea of the level...here's my vocab list from the episode:

การควบคุม control/influence

การปราบปราม suppressing

จัดฉาก be set-up

กล้วยๆ simple

อำพราง conceal/cover up

หลงกล be cheated

พาหนะ means of transport

ทัณฑ์บน parole

ย่ำแย่ be unbearable

ลืมตาอ้าปาก to improve financial condition

สิ้นฤทธ์ be vanquished

ป่าเถื่อน savage

I bought the set at B2S and have seen it at a few other stores. It has 39 22-minute episodes on 10 dvd's for 1050 baht.

How about:

"No, I don't want to buy a lighter, movie, wallet, laser pointer, watch, etc. Please leave me alone."

written in Thai on the back. I and several of my friends would buy them.

. It is like saying that Thai students would learn to speak English faster if English words were written with Thai letters. Would English teacher accept that way of teaching? Would it benefit Thai students wanting to learn English?

Walen School - Transliteration is wrong! Learn the Thai alphabet, you can do it.

www.thaiwalen.com

It depends on how long they have to study and what their goals are. Phonetic spelling in the native language can be useful for beginners to check that they are reading it correctly. I have a few "English Conversation for Thais"-type books and they display sentences like this:

It makes me sad

อิท เม้คส มี แซ่ด

มันทำให้ฉันเศร้า

Could it be a shortened version of เฮงซวย meaning "bad or inferior" ?

Very interesting thread.

For "so-called", most translations seem to be pretty literal, but I've always thought of so-called as being a sarcastic use of the word "supposed". For example:

I took my car to that so-called mechanic and now it runs worse than before.

How would you translate that sentence considering the fact that the person you took the car to is actually a mechanic (not someone who is just "called" a mechanic) but one who is incompetent.

"What I meant by 'comprehension precedes production' is that when you're exposed to native speaker input over a long period of time you can understand more of what they say than you can actually produce yourself."

I agree with this since it's obviously true with my native language. There are thousands of words which I almost never use that I would struggle to say in conversation but can understand immediately upon hearing or reading them. I guess the question is, "what constitutes a long period of time?' Currently my overall listening skills are far lower than my speaking or reading. I expect these will converge as I improve.

"ps. I thought Star Wars was still something we had to look forward to??! And universal translators perhaps"

It is, in our galaxy. But the age of Luke Skywalker was "A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away..."

"Comprehension always precedes production: so you can expect (and should focus on) listening and reading skills to develop faster than speaking and writing skills"

I've heard this before, but I'm the opposite. When I learn a new word the lag between wanting to say it and being able to is far shorter than the time it takes for me to understand it after hearing it. I guess I just need more listening practice.

"the principles are the same whether you are in the age of Marco Polo or Luke Skywalker"

But both of these ages are in the past ?!?!

I agree with softwater. I've had the same problems and heard the same warnings.

In colloquial speech if you want to say "for starters" I think you can use แรกๆ .

You might want to take a look at the Oxford River English Thai dictionary. When you look up a word it often gives several (sometimes dozens) of these compound words. For example, the word "speak" lists:

speak for yourself

is spoken for (reserved)

no___to speak of

speak out against

Is Mr. Grant there? Speaking.

speak one's opinion/mind

etc.

and they seem to do a good job of translating the meaning and not word-by-word.

no trees to speak of

แทบจะไม่มีต้นไม้เลย

is spoken for

มีผู้ขอไว้แลว

I don't know if these are always the most common way to express the ideas in Thai but they should be at least close enough to be understood.

I bought the print version in Thai. The English version is available in print form or e-book. I find it awkward to try to hold 2 books at once or have to keep re-opening the English one so I chose the e-book. It works great for me...I read the Thai book while following along with the e-book on the computer, and I have an online dictionary open along with Anki to input any interesting sentences.

I don't think I can post a link...so the translator's name is Marcel Barang and if you do a google search his website is the first one that pops up.

I've suffered through a few dry tomes as well...definitely not the case here. The first chapter is called "เหล้า-เล่า" and it's just two drunk guys telling stories...a couple of which made me legitimately laugh out loud.

Thanks David...I'll keep an eye for them.

SoftWater,

If you're interested, the Thai title is พันธุ์หมาบ้า and the author is ชาติ กอบจิตติ

I agree about the menu. I went to an Italian place and the menu was in Italian, English and Thai. I wanted to order lasagne and there were 3 listed. The English descriptions weren't very clear so I read the Thai and found them to be much more literal (tomato sauce/beef, vegetarian, etc.).