IanForbes

There's been an interesting array of replies to the OP's topic. And, with a few exceptions, there is a degree of truth to all the replies depending on the situation. There are no hard and fast rules when it comes to relationships. There is every conceivable situation possible. The only people who are flat out wrong are the ones who say that there is ONLY one way.

Thailand is a great place to meet women, and the chances go upwards increasingly when you learn the language. But, learning Thai when your native language is English, is a slow, difficult process. That wouldn't fit into the OP's holiday plans. Thai women are no different than women everywhere... they would prefer an attractive man similar to their own age, and one who has a bit of money to spend on them. However, the smart Thai women have learned that young attractive foreigners do not stay around long enough to be a potential long term partner... so the women often go for second best.. some older guy who has a little jingle and wants to settle down.

I am really a bit surprised over your statements here. I thought you had more insights and experience. "Thai women are no different that women everywhere"! That I would expect from someone who had never been here and never met and experienced Thai women. I am not saying they are different from everywhere else. I have not been everywhere, only Europe, Asia and North America and I can truly say that the ladies here are very different from those in those areas, basically. Anyone from UK and who may noit have been much abroad and comes here, will realize from day 1 that the girls here are different. But it is so much depending on yourself, how you behave, dress and talk. This goes in bars as well as anywhere in Thailand.

The OP needs to come here and see for himself. It has been suggested to skip Koh Samui for other venues and I agree. If you go to Pattaya, remember it is not Thailand! And it is most certainly not like anything in the UK. Keep an open mind and eye and smile and you will have a good time. Do not believe anything someone tells you here and take no notice of the advice given here to not fall in love. It is futile. You WILL fall in love here. Just remember, think with your big head and think twice before doing anything. And most things in Thailand are not what they seem to be.

And I am surprised that you didn't understand what I wrote quite clearly. I'm talking about the basics of what all women want: security, love, and possibly a family. Sexual intercourse comes a distant fourth.

I'm NOT talking about the differences in culture. Yes, there are wide variations in culture that affect everyone. A simple experiment would be to compare Thailand to the Philippines. Both are Asian, but that is where the similarities stop. Thailand is basically a feudal Kingdom under a Buddhist philosophy. The Philippines is a screwed up country made that way by following the normal Catholic hypocritical philosophy.

Arthurwait posted a pretty good synopsis of some causes of excess drinking.

I might disagree somewhat of his view of drinking in bars with working girls.

they get addicted to having their ego stroked by a pretty young girl at the bars and keep going back.

But that is a moot point. It has nothing to do with getting their egos stroked, and more to do with having the company of attractive women rather than miserable women on PMS.

Boredom has a lot to do with people who drink too much. They don't have other interests to look forward to.

I the Bristish case there many people who don't have homes suitable for entertaining, so everyone goes to the local pub to socialize. What do they serve in pubs? Yah, right, booze. The longer you stay in the pub the more you drink... unless you are in a Thai pub where you can play pool or flirt with a pretty girl.

In middle and upper class North America the people have larger homes more suitable for entertaining. There is less motive to binge drinking, unless you are already a drunk.

I've had a few friends in Canada who ruined their lives by smoking and excessive drinking. Most of these guys got bored with married life after a while and had no other interests to occupy their lives. They were party animals when they were younger and they slowly turned into alcoholics with nothing new to excite them.

I won't repeat all of the points that Arthurwait brought up but for every ying there is a yang..

Yep, I truly do have this obsession to alky hol... providing I get an ice cream sundae to go along with it. Oh, and I truly do want the cherry on top.

I think it's all that sun and pretty women that's frying my brain.

I go for anyone who has a business that rely on one time sales not repeat customers.

You mean like the Time Share crooks? How do you know when a Time Share salesman is lying? Answer... When his lips are moving.

However, there are a few old saying that are still valid...

1. If it looks too good to be true then it isn't

2. A sucker and his money are soon parted

3 Those that want something for nothing most often get nothing.

So many old studs on TV, truly amazing!

True. It's where we go to spend the final portion of our lives enjoying ourselves before we can no longer function as a man. Anybody who thinks we have the same options in Europe, Australia or North America has rocks in their heads. The topic reminds me of the jerry Lee Lewis song.. "39 and holding" We get to play act what we enjoyed 40 to 50 years before.

I'm just surprised that more frustrated old farts in the western world haven't joined us.

Never had done the MHS route yet, not sure why. Heading out Monday or tuesday to do it.

Just a quick question. Fuel and hotels ?

Small tank, any problems getting fuel ?

As hotels go. in the under 1000 range but decent that are OK for my wife and I, are there many along the way so no worrys, just start looking at the end of the day ??

It depends on what route you want to take. I prefer the southern route first as it is an easy breakin to the serious hill climbs between Pai and Mae Hong Son.

Fill your gas tank before leaving Chiang Mai. It is just under a 100 km from Chiang Mai to the tiny town of Hot where you turn right (west) towards the mountains. That is the first gas stop. It is a fairly boring ride between Chiang Mai and Hot, but the highway is mostly good with some construction in various locations. And, it does give you a chance to test your bike capabilities. There are a few sections where you can average 90 Kph or more, and a few others where you will slow to a stop in places like Hang Dong. Once you leave Hot the road follows a pretty river valley and slowly climbs into the hills. A big bike shouldn't go much faster than a scooter because you just can't see around the corners... and you NEVER KNOW who might be coming at you in your lane.

From Chiang Mai, It will take about 3 to 4 hours to reach Mae Sariang, which is at the other side of the mountains. From Mae Sariang to Mae Hong Son it is mostly a good, winding highway with not too many fast sections or slow sections. It is a very pleasant ride. It's about 180 km from Mae Sariang to Mae Hong Son. There are many guest cottages and places to eat in Mae Sariang. We've seldom paid more than 400 to 500 baht for a room. However, due to my interests I most often drive another 30 km north to the village of Mae La Noi. I know of a nice guest cottage there that is only 250 baht a night. It also cuts another 30 km off the ride to Mae Hong Son the next day. Although Mae Hong Son has many hotels and guest cottages, it's hard to find one under 500 baht, Many of the hotels want 1000 baht or more... even though many are empty. There is quite a lot to explore if you want to add a few days to your trip and explore the side roads.

It is 240 km from Mae Hong Son to Chiang Mai via the northern route, but with all the curves and bends it's hard to make good time. I did it in 3 and a half hours on my 250 D-Tracker but I was trying to go as fast as safely possible. I didn't get off the bike except for one pee break and a gas stop in Pai. My butt was pretty sore when I got back to Chiang Mai. The road climbs over about 4 or 5 mountain passes between Mae Hong Son and Mae Taeng and very often the road follows ridge tops where you can look down into 2 different valleys at the same time.. However, don't trust the hairpin turns. The road is VERY rough on many of the sharp corners and you can go around them as quickly on a scooter as you can on a big bike..

it is about 107 km from Mae Hong Son to Pai and you'll want to make lots of stops to take photos. It is about 100 km from Pai to Mae Taeng where highway 1095 joins hwy 107 and turns south to Chiang Mai. 107 is a very good highway from Chiang Mai to Mae Taeng but it is very busy with transport trucks and more dangerous than it looks.

WATCH OUT FOR GROUPS OF SILVER VANS!! They ARE out to kill you, or at least just run you off the highway. They have NO respect for anyone on a motorbike.

Good luck and enjoy yourself.

Sorry I can't be much help, Anders. I saw one 4 months ago when I was looking for a bike in Chiang Mai, but it was gone when I went back later. I'm now out of the country and won't be back until November.

You can have mine. He's too expensive to feed and has already cleaned up all the neighbourhood's cats and dogs.

Nana Entertainment Plaza :-)

Sent via Plan 9 from out of space by daleks

Thanks, we are presently picking up a few new customers from a different galaxy.

I'm not sure where NEP actually is. However, every time I hear someone say sent from Android I get pictures of a creature from out of space. You know, the ones that come with scary movies.

Everyone gets perceptions depending on where you visit. If you followed me on my more recent trips you would think Thais all lived in Teak wood shacks in the hills close to some river in north west Thailand. My son who is a cabinet maker by trade would drool over some of those teak wood planks.

Somehow I don't believe you here Ian - on my first visit to Thailand Nana was the first place I was taken!

I'm well aware of Nana Plaza. I just didn't know what the "E" meant. Unfortunately, Nana Plaza and the nearby Soi Cowboy are just empty shells of what they were in the 1990s. And, after they jacked up their prices to ridiculous rates, most of the punters moved on to Pattaya. Pattaya seems to be following the same route, as did Phuket. I don't know where the NEW "hot spot" will eventually take over.

Went to NEP for the first time in years, understand where a lot of the ThaiVisa perceptions come from now!

Sent from Android please excuse errors in type or judgement

I'm not sure where NEP actually is. However, every time I hear someone say sent from Android I get pictures of a creature from out of space. You know, the ones that come with scary movies.

Everyone gets perceptions depending on where you visit. If you followed me on my more recent trips you would think Thais all lived in Teak wood shacks in the hills close to some river in north west Thailand. My son who is a cabinet maker by trade would drool over some of those teak wood planks.

Thanks for the information. I can understand why the OP would be worried.

However, I am just paranoid enough to only use my ATM card during business hours. It there is a problem I can get someone in the know to help me. All it takes is a little PRIOR planning. I actually plan ahead what I am going to need BEFORE I travel. I've been to enough ATM machines to know they don't always carry enough cash to make my transaction.

Good post... you with the unpronounceable name. I tend to actually READ what a person says and I pay attention to previous posts. There is a huge difference between being racist and actually understanding reality. Unless of course, if you have a different description of what a racist is.

Follow the money.

Who paid the bill?

That is true. In my first marriage I paid ALL the bills even though my wife was a registered nurse who could earn more money than me if she wanted to. I also did all the yard work and 90% of the cooking and cleanup. My wife stayed home with the children when they were small, but after the kids went to school she spent the rest of the day "playing ladies" with her friends while I was at work. My second marriage was much the same except I financed my wife on a variety of home businesses that she didn't follow through on, but could have made money and didn't. And, I was expected to supplement the finances of her grown children. Yup, you are correct, Follow who pays the bills in most marriages..

Keep the reports coming in and I'll be with you in spirit, if not body. I am convalescing in my living room back in Canada and trying to get over some nasty cold I brought back from Thailand with me. It is sunny outside, but I don't have the energy to go out. I'm parked in front of my TV watching the Masters golf, with the occasional bit of time on the computer. The power outage explains why I didn't get my daily e-mail from my Chiang Mai girlfriend.

Probably a bit late, butI'd say go because of the rain & the air's clearing, if not cleared.

It rained in MHS Wed night & on Friday heavily in Mae Chaem.

I came back from MHS on Thursday

Thanks for your imput, David. Too many people just don't get off the well known routes. There is lots to explore even on a rental scooter. Just take your time and leave the speed demons to their own reckless pace.

Just cuz Im Canadiun don meen I aint bin round des establishments..

The only place they wouldn't let me in was the second floor of the Grosvenor pub in Stockbridge and that was reserved for members of the Houghtan Club

My beautiful young wife contributes the same annual amount to the household as I do..........

Most of the money is spent, with pleasure, bringing up our two wonderful children

Don't worry there is nothing wrong in paying for sex......at the moment I don't have the inclination that's all, then as I say never enjoyed sex with plastic coating....I enjoy loving and being loved, and I am very very proud of my beautiful hard working young wife.....

And that is exactly what most of us who were previously married, wanted. I have no regrets with either of my two marriages and wouldn't trade those experiences for anything. I would call both of the marriages a success. However, sometime things change despite your best efforts. Anyone in a marriage like 473Geo's should be thankful and happy. Unfortunately, nothing is certain in life and you have to make the best of it when things not go as planned. I was going to say "wrong" but that is not always the case. Sometimes what first appears as a disaster can turn out to be a blessing in disguise.

I can say with some degree of pride that in all my previous relationships none ended in nastiness. I am still on good terms with all the women I've known who are still around. Some are married or in relationships with friends of mine and we all get along. I hold no animosity with anyone who hasn't intentionally done me harm.

Moral of the story, racists are all over the place, some people are just downright stupid. Keyword is "some". So it's not as bad as it seems, you can choose your friends and dismiss your enemies. You don't need to be friends with everybody, as well as not everybody has to friends with you. So get over it and move on, but make sure you still treat people the same way you want them to treat you.

Oh so true. Why care what others think? They might be idiots. Just make sure your OWN slate is clean in how you treat others.

There's been an interesting array of replies to the OP's topic. And, with a few exceptions, there is a degree of truth to all the replies depending on the situation. There are no hard and fast rules when it comes to relationships. There is every conceivable situation possible. The only people who are flat out wrong are the ones who say that there is ONLY one way.

Thailand is a great place to meet women, and the chances go upwards increasingly when you learn the language. But, learning Thai when your native language is English, is a slow, difficult process. That wouldn't fit into the OP's holiday plans. Thai women are no different than women everywhere... they would prefer an attractive man similar to their own age, and one who has a bit of money to spend on them. However, the smart Thai women have learned that young attractive foreigners do not stay around long enough to be a potential long term partner... so the women often go for second best.. some older guy who has a little jingle and wants to settle down.

You are flat out wrong. Thai females who actively looking to approach foreigners, do it with one intention in mind, get connected with a man who has money.

Some of them do it more explicitly, the ones you call prostitutes, others do it less explicitly, but still, for the same reason.

And of course there are shades of gray in between, but love and money is a VERY strong reason for the thai female to look for a foreign male.

Everyone who believes otherwise, are disillusioned.

You are replying to the WRONG quote. I was referring to the comment that all women working in bars are prostitutes. That is flat out wrong... they aren't. Depending on the bar, a good portion of the women are working the "trade"... BUT NOT ALL OF THEM!

Yes, the actual working girls are there for the money. And, in countries where the majority of women are poor, the clever women have learned not to offer their services for free to randy, irresponsible Thai boys who offer nothing for the future, and prefer to pick and choose between a wide array of foreign men.

As predicted by many, they have split up and she of course got to keep the house. He's got a new thai 'girlfriend' more his age and is happier with this, Mee is living with a 'boyfriend' more her age.

Nothing is ever certain in life and if you get a few good years then maybe it was worth it. I've certainly seen far worse scenarios amongst friends in Canada.

I was/am a complainer, too, on occasion, but I have recently realized something that I need to say to be fair. One thing I really must admit I like about the Thais (as far as I have understood thus far) is that as long as I try to fit in and respect (and maybe even show interest) in Thai custom (all manner), they generally seem to be fairly accepting.

Just a quick example. I am fast. Very fast. Worked on Wall Street and lived in NYC. Move with purpose. I don't dawdle. Super independent. I'm also often serious and probably appear that way to most Thais. You get the picture. When I have taken this type of trait with me to various venues in Thailand, it simply doesn't work. Thais seem very much put off by it, and I often feel as though there is a collective effort by everyone around me to let it be known that it's not ideal. At first, I fought it. I thought my way was better (still think that most of the time). But, my wife has been coaching me. She told me to slow down, smile more; when people stare at me like they are watching an animal in the zoo, just smile gently at them; try to speak as much Thai as I can which isn't much; make a point to interact with people I see frequently (like street vendors), etc.

Under normal circumstances, I would not be interested in doing any of these things, but when I do them, my experience changes completely for the better. Thais seem to be rather simple in this regard. Just show interests and don't 'go against the grain', and they are cool (for the most part). I do not want to make this negative, but the other side is my experience in several places in the US where if you are different enough, you will NEVER be accepted even as a guest. As much as I love my country, I have to keep it real in this aspect.

So, all things considered, with respect to acceptance -- I'm not talking about being treated as a Thai, but rather I'm talking about being treated kindly and with respect (but certainly as a guest, in my case) -- the Thais do seem rather easy going.

Good post. I'm glad that you have learned the Thai way and see how it has benefited you in Thailand. It doesn't make sense to try pushing water uphill with a broom.

And, ExpatOilWorker made a good observation...

What I love the most about Thailand is freedom. The old saying about Your freedom ends where somebody's else's right begins is very flexible in Thailand.

Funny enough, Thailand has rules and laws for most things, but it is very loosely enforced. Just look how building codes, speed limits, entertainment laws are bend to make the most enjoyable for the majority.

I also enjoy the freedom i find in Thailand, providing I stay somewhat within the rules of the country.