urandom

Initiated by our fellow forum member Cloggie, we started back in October to have regular meetings in Bangkok area [1][2]. It all started around linux and F/OSS but in fact, many different topics were discussed. At the moment, we're a group of 4/5 nerds nice people who like to meet around a (few) pint(s) and laptops.

Tomorrow (15th of Dec.) will be the last meeting before Christmas so everyone will get free laptops and we'll all be happy to welcome and meet new people, whatever your background, the operating system you're using, as long as you like Internet, computers, communication, technology and bubbles made from barley.

who

-----------------

cloggie

urandom

colinchapman

dharmabm

when

-----------------

15th of December 2010 around 7:00 p.m.

where

-----------------

http://www.soi8.net/

Ask here if you have any question, please add your nickname if you want to join.

Cheers.

@Cloggie, sorry I opened a new topic but I guess there's more traffic in this section.

[1] http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/405046-ubuntu-group/

[2] http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/409242-ubuntu-it-meeting/

never tried it...

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/4287/

Again, so what?

so the 64bit desktop is no there yet except if you want to use ugly hacks that double the chance of vulnerabilities when a library is affected and clutter your machine. Also, you mentioned mediabuntu which I guess is an unofficial repo so you better trust those guys and you'd better have some packaging skills if they disappear or do not offer updates quickly in case of security issue.

Do you think google supports buggy software? Their releases are solid, often even in beta.

I really, really do. Their installer is pure crap.

http://www.webupd8.o...untu-linux.html

Wine, Google Earth and Skype seem to be the three main open source applications that are run via 32 bit libs.

not so important but Google earth and skype are *not* open source applications. IIRC skype opensourced the UI at least.

In Ubuntu this is all done for you now and the process is transparent. If there are any bugs in them - and all software has some - , they are

linux bugs(or just bugs) and not due to being 64 bit.

there are, of course, bugs that only hit a specific architecture.

not so long time ago: http://linux.slashdo...4-Bit-Machines.

Not a bug but it also took a long time for 64bit Firefox user to get spidermonkey to be implemented... way after 32bit...

Just to avoid any misunderstanding, I have nothing against 64bit and I even run a 64bit torrentbox/HTPC/SSH server, but no desktop.

Anyway, let's just use what's best for each one of us, thanks to FOSS, it's easy to do.

you are not using native 64bit builds. just 32bit ones with multilibs. even the 64bit skype version on skype's website is just the packaged 32bit build+multilib

another possibility, if you want to get the best of both worlds (let's face it, 32 bit userland is way better for the desktop ATM - think flash, skype, google earth, wine, etc.. - ) is to use a 64bit kernel on 32bit userland, i've been doing this for years without any issue (PAE has some performance impact so I would not recommend it). it becomes a bit more complicated only if you have out of tree modules like proprietary nvidia drivers and so on but it's still possible to do it anyway. vmware may be one those too (anyway, with an i7 cpu, you could use kvm which is in-kernel as well)

edit/ typos

I'm sorry but I strongly disagree about 32 bit being better. That was certainly true five years ago and many people seem never

to check if the situation has improved.

*ahem*

Well, it has. Flash, google earth, wine, skype(the last holdout) , java all are running in my

Lucid Lynx 64 bit Ubuntu with no problems.

there is *no* native version of skype or google-earth for 64bit. there is a 64bit wine which is highly experimental and that basically doesn't work. As far as flash is concerned, there is a pre-release available. What happened when the previous 64bit alpha release has been hit by a serious security flaw? Nothing, adobe just dropped the support for 64bit until the new square release. So you had few choices, using vulnerable software, going back to 32bit+wrapper or using one the non-working FOSS alternatives. What you are using to run all those apps is just multilibs which add more bloat, complexity and is just a hack.

I wish I could get an invitation code

pm'd

but where does this message come from exactly?

from your OS on the client machine or from the router (in the web interface maybe)? it could be that the router wireless chipset has died (or is not properly recognized).

1) I would recommend it. Airport is a wireless router, albeit a 5 star deluxe model, great product with better range and extra security compared to standard routers.

i've just checked apple's website [ http://www.apple.com...s/security.html ], under security, they mention WPA/WPA2 encryption and a firewall... hmmm... where's the extra security? also, "better range" needs numbers backup otherwise it means nothing.

@MisterMan: if you dont need wireless-n then you can get some linksys WRT54GL for THB1,750 and stick tomato firmware inside [ http://www.polarcloud.com/tomato ] (or some of its mods, see after), you'll get really great features and a super stable router. you can even install a wide range of software on it... if you need a gigabyte router with wireless-n than i just bought an Asus RT-N16 for THB3K+ and flashed it with latest tomatousb [ http://tomatousb.org/ ] and it works great so far.

Didnt know a router could have softeware on it to do what?

If you're talking about the firmware, then think of it like the operating system of your router.

if you're talking about the extra software you can install with dd-wrt or tomato for example, then there is almost no limit. in fact, you router is a sort of mini computer, it has a cpu, some ram, it can run virtually any application that its hardware can handle. for example, you can stick a usb drive in your router and run a bittorrent client on it so you can download stuff without any computer powered on. routers can run proxies, web servers, ssh servers. you can even run vlc to stream some movies, endless possibilities. all this directly from the router.

What is N vs no N?

in short: you can get different speeds depending on your network being a, b, g or n. n is the latest and fastest. beware, your client (most likely your laptop) will need a wireless-n chipset.

in depth: http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Wireless_N

/edit: forgot b

i'm quite sure data recovery will be overpriced. don't you have any friend, coworker that could help? worst case, where do you live/work, i could try if you want (my fees: a coke zero)

1) I would recommend it. Airport is a wireless router, albeit a 5 star deluxe model, great product with better range and extra security compared to standard routers.

i've just checked apple's website [ http://www.apple.com/airportexpress/features/security.html ], under security, they mention WPA/WPA2 encryption and a firewall... hmmm... where's the extra security? also, "better range" needs numbers backup otherwise it means nothing.

@MisterMan: if you dont need wireless-n then you can get some linksys WRT54GL for THB1,750 and stick tomato firmware inside [ http://www.polarcloud.com/tomato ] (or some of its mods, see after), you'll get really great features and a super stable router. you can even install a wide range of software on it... if you need a gigabyte router with wireless-n than i just bought an Asus RT-N16 for THB3K+ and flashed it with latest tomatousb [ http://tomatousb.org/ ] and it works great so far.

you want this: http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/PhotoRec

To setup a truly secure wifi router will require lots and lots of information most of which can be googled for but the list of required configuration must have are these:

1. Network encryption/password -- WPA2/AES would be the obvious choice for this role as WEP and WPA are not considered the safest for this role.

2. Disabling SSID broadcasting, the most people casual peoples will not be able to 'see' your router. (Though people who really want to will still be able to.)

2. MAC client filtering on the router so that only the specified MAC addresses which belong to the machines that are allowed can contact the router.

3. Turning down the transmit power of your router to limit how far the signal will extend outside of your home.

With those options enabled you should have a pretty bullet-proof setup that will keep out all but the most hardcore of people. Again finally for information to do all of these especially with your specific router google will be your friend.

Finally a bit of fun, try changing your SSID (the name people see when they scan for wifi networks) to something like Virus.exe / Connect-if-you-wanna-die or something similar might also be in your best interest.

there are only two things that really matter: using WPA/WPA2 *and* using a strong, non-dictionary password. you can use https://www.grc.com/passwords.htm for example.

I just bought this a few months ago http://shop.lenovo.com/us/notebooks/thinkpad/x-series/x201 but the cheap version, the x201i, you can find it at THB28,xxx in Pantip. Best laptop I have ever had (got 2 acers and 1 asus). Build quality is really high standard, keyboard is the best i have ever seen on any laptop, i3 cpu, 12.1" matt screen. very small and light with enough processing power (2 cores/4 threads). read the reviews of his brother the x201, it's the same machine with a better cpu, they all are very positive.

just one thing, if you are a linux user, it comes with a broadcom wireless chipset whose driver is not in the kernel tree and sucks. i just bought a brand new intel 6200 to a guy from thaithinkpad forums, very cheap, works great. if you don't care about linux then you already someone with a spare broadcom chipset just in case

another possibility, if you want to get the best of both worlds (let's face it, 32 bit userland is way better for the desktop ATM - think flash, skype, google earth, wine, etc.. - ) is to use a 64bit kernel on 32bit userland, i've been doing this for years without any issue (PAE has some performance impact so I would not recommend it). it becomes a bit more complicated only if you have out of tree modules like proprietary nvidia drivers and so on but it's still possible to do it anyway. vmware may be one those too (anyway, with an i7 cpu, you could use kvm which is in-kernel as well)

edit/ typos

tomorrow night's the night...

[ ] Cloggie

[ ] ColinChapman

[ ] Dharmabm

[ ] Crushdepth

[X] urandom

[ ] my username

OK great !

so far, people who have confirmed (based on what can be read on this thread):

Cloggie

ColinChapman

Dharmabm

Crushdepth

urandom

hey that's the original crew !

martin, will you be able to join this time? would be nice...

siam2007, many free "teachers" at your disposal, register now!

pattaya folks (richb2004v2, kebabbaro), Cloggie comes every time from Pattaya, maybe you guys could join together for this linux/it road trip..

so what's next? are you guys still motivated? last meeting was more quiet but i enjoyed it anyway (except that i should definitely eat before drink )

what's your wireless chipset?

(just in case you don't know

$ lspci | grep Network

should tell you)

05:00.0 Network controller: Broadcom Corporation BCM4313 802.11b/g LP-PHY (rev 01)

Firefox definitely works on the neighbors signal but not my own. I can only think it's because my signal is weak or a poor connection. It seems strange that Chrome works fine though.

you, Sir, are a lucky man! the troubles you're having with this chipset will soon be history as Broadcom released opensource driver for it. it has already been merged in linus' tree (although in staging, the code still needs some work) http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=tree;f=drivers/staging/brcm80211;h=f49827a622f8e6d42ceabce11c7742e36a0d129c;hb=HEAD

expect them in .37 kernel release! if you dont want to wait, you can get them from compat-wireless as well...

probably ipv6. type about:config into your firefox addressbar, ignore the warning, put ipv in the filter box at the top, and double-click network.dns.disableIPv6 to change the value to true. close firefox and restart, i am betting that will do it.

k

correct me if i'm wrong but i guess IPv6 should time out and firefox should fallback to IPv4 (that's why resolving is so slow unless you modify the config as you advised). also (but i truly have no idea about this one), are there any ISPs in Thailand already using IPv6?

IIRC, it actually has to do with your router and not your ISP

not familiar with IPv6 but that makes sense indeed.

anyway,

root@blackout:~# zcat /proc/config.gz | grep IPV6

# CONFIG_IPV6 is not set

A minor clitch I've found is that when I connect to my wi-fi signal Firefox does not work, but Chrome does. When I connect to a neighbors signal both work. It's not a big deal though as I will simply switch to using Chrome.

Hmm is it "Files - Work offline" that is enabled in Firefox?

but then it should fail with the neighbors network as well. this issue deserves a weirdness award of the month....

probably ipv6. type about:config into your firefox addressbar, ignore the warning, put ipv in the filter box at the top, and double-click network.dns.disableIPv6 to change the value to true. close firefox and restart, i am betting that will do it.

k

correct me if i'm wrong but i guess IPv6 should time out and firefox should fallback to IPv4 (that's why resolving is so slow unless you modify the config as you advised). also (but i truly have no idea about this one), are there any ISPs in Thailand already using IPv6?

A minor clitch I've found is that when I connect to my wi-fi signal Firefox does not work, but Chrome does. When I connect to a neighbors signal both work. It's not a big deal though as I will simply switch to using Chrome.

Hmm is it "Files - Work offline" that is enabled in Firefox?

but then it should fail with the neighbors network as well. this issue deserves a weirdness award of the month....

what's your wireless chipset?

(just in case you don't know

$ lspci | grep Network

should tell you)

and now... http://lwn.net/Articles/413351/

ok, I'll share a beer or two with you if you're still there around 7.45/8.00... but it looks like we'll be something like... 2...

it looks like not much is going to happen tonight... siam2007, if you want to install linux and get a free private lesson, just let me know, we could meet tonight if you want. just be sure to bring the installation cd with you. if you have no idea about what to download, you could start with ubuntu i686, just go to ubuntu.com and grab a copy (it's an *.iso file that you have to burn as an image).