Yumthai

Indeed Thai income tax is not a subject for Thais.

There could be (income) tax on the money and/or the gifting act itself depending on the country tax law where the gift occurs and the tax residence status of the gifter, but imo not in Thailand.

We can agree to disagree. My view is the location of the gift and the way of transfer does not matter. The act of gifting occurs prior wire transfer/remittance.

That makes me wonder what the real intention of the Thai government is. If they really want money in, they should better put their efforts on tax law enforcement rather than constantly updating and implementing countless rules.

You go to your home country with your wife, withdraw $5K in cash from your local bank account and gift it to your wife. Then you both fly back to Thailand. Who is remitting $5K into Thailand? Your wife and it's a gift exempted from tax.

That is the only point to discuss: what happens first? Gift or Remittance? I agree with you, imo gift rules prevail over remittance rules i.e. gift event occurs first then remittance event if any. For instance, a Thai tax resident has $1K cash in his home country that he gifts his Thai tax resident wife on 01/05/2024. He can state it in a nice letter/email as proof. From 01/05/2024 gift is acted and this money belongs to his wife wherever it is. There are many ways her $1K cash gift can be repatriated to Thailand (she could fly to pick it up, ask a third-party to bring it back, use online transfer, ...) but in any case the remittance event (tax exempted as it's a gift) will always occur for the giftee (wife) not the gifter. That's my view.

It comes from @Mike Lister original post, I think it should be omitted with the new structure.

Can you tell me where you think it's mixed and not clear? I've re-read it several times and it appears to me to be mixed but it's clear that it is and is delineated by section. The first three para's are I believe a factual overview of remittances. Para's 66-69 are the rules, 70-71 are interpretations whilst 72 is clearly the rules. It's probable that I am too close to what is written to not see the overlaps that you see so please be specific. In my opinion, First and foremost, our confidence levels that we understand all the Gift Tax rules is not high. What the rules say: The TRD does not consider what the purpose is of remitted funds, only whether they are assessable or not. If a foreigner remits non-assessable funds and then gifts them in Thailand, that is the end of the matter for the gifter. If however the foreigner remits assessable funds to Thailand and then gifts them inside Thailand, those funds must be reported as assessable income on the foreigners tax return, no matter that they are later gifted. 66) "PIT is levied on gifts given by persons who are still alive. The tax is collected on the assets or the amount given to parents, ascendants, descendants, spouse, or others based on the value of the gift that exceeds a prescribed threshold, which depends on the type of gift and donor. Assets or amounts given that do not exceed the threshold are exempt from tax. 67) The following gifts are exempt from PIT: a) Income derived by a parent from the transfer of ownership or possessory right in an immovable property without any consideration to a legitimate child, excluding an adopted child, in the amount not exceeding THB 20 million throughout a tax year in respect of each child. b) Maintenance income or gifts from ascendants, descendants, or spouse, in the amount not exceeding THB 20 million throughout a tax year. c) Maintenance income derived under a moral obligation or gifts made in a ceremony or on occasions in accordance with established custom from persons who are not ascendants, descendants, or spouse, in the amount not exceeding THB 10 million throughout a tax year. d) Income from gifts in the case where the person who receives the gifts will use them for religious, educational, or public benefit purposes according to the intention of the donors under the criteria and conditions referred to in the Ministerial Regulations. 68) Gifts in excess of the above thresholds will be subject to PIT at the rate of 5% and will not need to be included together with other income when computing the annual PIT liability. 69) For ascendants/descendants the threshold is THB 20 mill, nor non-ascendants and descendants, it's THB 10 mill". What we some posters think: In the third scenario, the foreigner gifts offshore assessable income direct to a Thai resident, the foreigner must report that income as if they themselves had received it directly. 70) The following summary points compiled by a member may help guide readers in the use of Gift Tax: a) Gifts must be traditional gifts based around a fixed date or occasion. b) Traditional gifts include supporting the spouse or other persons, mainly family, based on a moral obligation. c) Gifts to non-family members are more likely not to meet the moral obligation criterion. d) A ceremonial act may be required, in particular for non-spouses. e) Gifts must not be returned to the donor and used as a way to avoid income taxes, except under very specific Gift Tax rules which are likely to void the earlier tax advantage. f) Moral obligation is subject to interpretation, there is no single definition. g) TRD may apply additional criteria. h) TRD assessment may differ from self-assessment which risk must be evaluated in each case individually. 71) Note: Because Gift Tax is predominantly a domain of the wealthy and depends to a large extent on local practice, there is a shortage of confirmed information on this subject. One field of thought is that Gift Tax cannot be used to escape Thai tax by Gifting untaxed money from overseas. On the other hand, many Western countries, including the UK, do not tax gifts from overseas. Members wishing to exercise this option should seek qualified advice before using this option to Gift untaxed funds. 72) Two additional points on this subject are: 1) Funds that are gifted, must be for the use of the person to whom they are gifted. 2) Gifts can be revoked later and reclaimed, under specific circumstances, such as if the receiver of the gift defames the Gifter or fails to take care of their serious medical needs. Issues arise here when the receiver is the spouse of the Gifter and under marital law, the gift is regarded as conjugal property. Until this becomes more clear, it is critical that anyone wishing to use Gift Tax, seeks professional advice.

All this literature on Gift rules is mixing official statements with interpretations/assumptions. I think it's important to be able to distinguish, for any newbie looking for relevant Gift Tax information, what is coming straight from Thai books and what is assumed, maybe using a code color?

I think, as many others, that implementing a Tax Clearance Certificate at extension time will cause more financial damage from people fleeing Thailand than the extra money the Thai economy will get from both the law abiding foreigners and the agents providing "easy" certificates.

Thais know how the things work in their country whereas some foreigners, despite having living in Thailand for years, still can't adapt their formatted mindset.

The frogs may ask for supporting documents.

For those who think a gift remitted from overseas between spouses could be assessable income just use the gift rules as being the giftee when possible: A non Thai tax resident parent or child can send to the Thai tax resident child/parent giftee up to THB20M/year tax-free.

I gift my wife since years and will continue to do so. She uses this money the way she wants including for our common family expenses. To me, Thai gift law is pretty clear and not correlated to the new remittance rule. I don't see the risk of audit being increased as there have been no announcement regarding audit enforcement. I can't find any individual Thai or foreigner who has been audited either. The very low % of locals declaring and paying tax seems also to demonstrate that they are not audited. Of course things could change and if I see that happening (meaning strict/systematic tax law enforcement + real penalties) I will structure myself accordingly, but not before.

Well I stop believing long time ago that Thailand is and behaves like every other country in the world. Reading some posters here, I often wonder if we live in the same country.

Yes it's my opinion. And this is your opinion too.

I read "gratuitously" as: donee does not give something predetermined in the gift contract back in return to the gift. That does not mean donee cannot do what he/she wants in the future after gift is acted. Besides you can read further: Section 535. The following gifts are not revocable for ingratitude: Gifts purely remuneratory Gifts encumbered with a charge Gifts made in compliance with a moral duty Gifts made in consideration of marriage If a gift can be remuneratory then by definition there is something in return to the gift so not gratis. Again, Thai rules inconsistency or mistranslations ...

Their interpretation, not backed by any official Thai source. For bulletproof gifting, parents/children/spouse living abroad not being Thai tax residents themselves can gift the parent/child/spouse Thai tax resident up to THB20M a year tax-free.

We disagree on gifting in Thailand. IMO once gift is acted I believe that giftee can do whatever he/she wants with it.

As I said it's not illegal to bring cash in Thailand at each trip. I know many (older) people still living mostly on cash. They pay for their rent, food, services and even buy car/motorbike in cash. Their few yearly bank transactions do certainly not match their lifestyle.

In the real world, if someone gives you cash and you don't put it in the bank it's impossible to track it. Fiat money is fungible. You may not buy a condo with it but it's ok for living expenses. If donor ever been questioned, he can legally brings up to USD15K in Thailand undeclared that he could have accumulated over the years prior 2024.

My personal situation is sorted out for the next couple years, I was just thinking about people who don't have enough years savings prior 2024.

... said the ant, what about grasshoppers with only yearly income?

OK, so it's a fairly common (sense) assumption in most tax authorities. Not sure however, as there is no official reference, that Thai tax authority common assumption would be equal or divergent. Real-life history would rather point out Thai administration inconsistency and unpredictability but who knows...

Thailand - Individual - Income determination (pwc.com) Where in the PwC link is there a reference of your statement: "However, for no tax to be due, it is important that you never benefit from the gift, which means if you are closely related, then the recipient needs to be able to prove where the money was spent, and none of it went back to the giver." ?