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HagenvonTronje
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Posts posted by HagenvonTronje
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I translated some video interview from Thaksin onto paper:
Thaksin</SPAN>’s Interview with Al Jazeera Januari 07, 2009:
i prefere written text over listening. it's faster. so thanks for your effort. but why you didn't provide a link to your source? the video of the interview is online, you can watch it here..
it's an interview from january 2007 and not 2009. thaksin talking about his wife and that he is 57 years old should had gave you that hint, same as the lack of references to any recent events in thai politics of january 2009.
and now? what you wanna show? your skills as secretary to transcribe some spoken words?
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Police face threats over Sondhi's killing attempt casePublished on June 23, 2009Investigators probing the assassination attempt on Sondhi Limthongkul, a core leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy had been threatened not to work on the case, Deputy National Police chief General Thanee Somboonsap said on Tuesday.Thanee who is chief investigator of the case said the reason the police could not make significant progress on the case was that they had been threatened and intimidated in many ways not to proceed with their probe.He said he did not ask his team how they were threatened. However he said he intended to complete the investigation before he retired.
-- The Nation June 23, 2009::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Deputy Police Chief: Probe into Assassination Attempt on PAD Leader Faces ObstaclesTuesday, June 23, 2009 12:00 AMThe leader of an investigation team discloses that officials face obstacles and threats in trying to uncover the person behind the attempt on the life of People's Alliance for Democracy leader, Sondhi Limthongkul.Deputy Police Chief, Police General Thani Somboonsap, as leader of the investigation team tasked with apprehending the culprits responsible for the assassination attempt of PAD leader, Sondhi Limthongkul, revealed that officials working on his team are fearful and facing obstacles in trying to uncover who is behind the attempt on Sondhi's life.General Thani said his team has made considerable progress and could have made much more if they had not faced obstacles and threats.Thani expressed his confident that his team will solve the case before his retirement in October.He informed Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva about the problems that the probe team is experiencing. Abhisit reportedly expressed sympathy for what the team has gone through, but made it clear that his intention is to have the culprits brought to justice and to uphold the sanctity of law.-- Tan Network June 23, 2009::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Police vows to solve PAD leader’s shooting caseBANGKOK, 23 June 2009 (NNT) – Deputy National Police Chief Police General Thanee Somboonsup has vowed to solve the assassination case attempting to kill the People’s Alliance of Democracy (PAD) core leader Sondhi Limthongkul despite obstacles.During an interview with the media, Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban stated that he had not been informed of any problem in solving the case by Police General Thanee. Mr Suthep said the report that the police had been obstructed by influential figures must be clarified with the Deputy National Police Chief himself.Meanwhile, Police General Thanee dismissed the report. However, he admitted that his investigative team had been threatened in many forms and therefore were not able to proceed with the case. He further stated that he would let the media figure out the question about whether these influential figures were more powerful than him or not.Nevertheless, the Deputy National Police Chief said he would have this case solved and arrest the assailants in the assassination attempt before he retires.-- NNT June 23, 2009 -
EC postpones ruling on shareholding case of 44 MPs and senators
BANGKOK, 23 June 2009 (NNT) - The Election Commission (EC) has resolved to delay its deliberation on the shareholding case of 44 MPs and senators for another 15 days.
The EC’s 15-day adjournment of its ruling on the case is due to incomplete evidence and pending interrogation of witnesses on the plaintiff’s side. The commission is currently having the case file compared to those of 2 sub-panels investigating the involved 28 Democrat Party MPs and 16 senators.
The 44 individuals are accused of violating the Constitution by holding shares within private firms that have concessions with the government.
-- NNT 23 June 2009
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SIDELINES
Abhisit still faces unending, unpleasant surprises
By Sopon Onkgara
The Nation
Published on June 23, 2009
SUDDENLY, there is uncertainty about the stability of the government. A group of senators formerly sympathetic and friendly to the Democrat Party has become hostile and wanted to tear apart the bills designed to borrow loans totalling Bt800 billion for economic rescue measures and nation building.
Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, frequently on a lecture circuit on key national issues to explain government plans, and on foreign trips to strengthen bilateral relations with close and distant neighbours, might have been somewhat complacent about his command and control ability. His partial success in deflecting the pressure from key coalition partners for lucrative projects could be just temporary.
Surely, they grudgingly wait for the day when they can settle scores, with demand for more compensation when there is a real need to survive future political crises and other adversity.
The devastating defeat of Bhum Jai Thai Party in the Sakon Nakhon by-election at the hands of Pheu Thai Party might have punctured the swelling confidence of Newin Chidchob, who needs to reassess his strength and learn some lessons in modesty. At least, there is a signal that the Newin faction is not yet ready to break with the Democrats, despite their conflicts over benefit sharing.
Pheu Thai's victory just adds one seat for the opposition in the House. It was more a psychological boost for the party for the next general election. It gives the party hope that it can continue to control the poverty-stricken region, despite a challenge from the Newin faction.
The party, which has absolute control over the Northeast, has a strong chance of winning a simple majority in the House. More so, with some allies induced through promises for kickbacks from multimillion-baht projects, stability is quite assured. In the inherent gutter politics like ours, self-serving interests based on fair-sharing usually work better than links through ideologies.
The coalition partners will have to evaluate their respective positions now that there are more variables on the political landscape. Before the vote on Sunday, the Newin faction showed considerable confidence that it would win, with the PR stunts of a team of Cabinet members and key party members on the campaign trail. They hoped to diminish the clout and influence of Thaksin Shinawatra, now in self-imposed exile in Dubai. It was not so. The fugitive's frequent phone-ins to seek support from village leaders still worked as a sacred mantra.
With the by-election victory, Thaksin should feel that all hope of regaining power is not lost despite his present predicament and disgraced status. His grievances, full of self-pity, told through phone-ins to gullible, debt-ridden grass-roots folk obviously worked as a morale booster. That means more political trouble for Abhisit through harassment by red-shirt activists loyal to Thaksin.
There was an extremely unpleasant surprise last week. A group of senators could eventually lose their status if the Constitution Court finds their stock holding in media companies and concessionaires of state-owned entities a violation of the charter. The initial investigation and conclusion by the Election Commission was disturbing, though it was not a unanimous decision.
The sudden hostility of the Senators would complicate matters for Abhisit when he needs cooperation from all quarters for the rescue measures to show positive effects before his popularity and public tolerance run out. He appeared on TV on Sunday with a beseeching message for understanding. He also promised to show transparency in financial and fiscal issues with full clarification.
But another hard blow would come soon when the Election Commission also considers the shareholding of House members, whether they too have violated the charter. Included in the list of MPs are political heavyweights with long years in the House, serving as patrons and kingmakers in their own turfs. If found guilty, they would lose their House membership, though they can still return as Cabinet members if they feel no qualms about political scruples.
The Democrats should feel some pressure if they lose members, making the coalition precarious with a slimmer majority in the House. This would take some time before the Constitutional Court makes a ruling and that can be either for or against the senators and House members depending on the interpretation of the spirit of the law and reality.
What is more disturbing is that there has been no solid achievement on the part of the government in its six months in office. Abhisit has spent more time preventing his coalition partners from pursuing big deals with handsome kickbacks than presiding over the real hard work in keeping the country on the right track. The gruelling fight with the red-shirt activists and thugs has also sapped his strength considerably.
With all the adversity tested and won so far, including two survivals following attempts on his life by political thugs, Abhisit might feel that he has gone through the rite of passage and deserves more time from the public. A bit more patience, maybe, but surely Thaksin would not let slip even a second to hasten the downfall of his younger rival.
-- The Nation June 23, 2009
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Thailand's unemployment up 28% in Q1/09
BANGKOK, June 23 (TNA) - Thailand’s unemployment during the first quarter of this year soared 27.87 per cent from the corresponding period of 2008, a government spokesman said on Tuesday.
The spokesman quoted the National Statistical Office as saying that 780,000 people nationwide were jobless during the first quarter of 2009, up 170,000 from a year ago.
The largest number of unemployed during the first three months this year was in the production sector with 280,000 jobless, followed by the service and trade sector with 190,000 out of work and agriculture with 130,000 people, he said.
The highest unemployment rate was in the southern region where 2.6 per cent of the workforce was unemployed. Bangkok had the lowest unemployment rate at 1.4 per cent during the three-month period. (TNA)
-- TNA 23 June 2009
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Mr Chavarat: wage-increase for state enterprise employees is not linked to election campaign
BANGKOK, 23 June 2009 (NNT) - Interior Minister Chavarat Charnvirakul denies connection between wage increasing for state enterprise employees and the general election campaign.
Interior Minister stated before presiding over the opening ceremony of the OTOP Development Competition that, the Metropolitan Electricity Authority, and the Metropolitan Waterworks Authority employees provided adequate revenues to the country and were appropriate have more salary, while there is no request from other state enterprises on similar issue. However, Mr Chavarat affirmed that the progress is not linked with the future general election campaign.
Mr Chavarat saw disagreement by the Ministry of Finance as usual, but confirming no conflict among the coalition parties.
-- NNT 23 June 2009
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PM: Govt won't stay if unable to work
By: BangkokPost.com
Published: 23/06/2009
The government will not try to cling to office if it is not able to effectively perform its duties, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said in an interview after the cabinet meeting on Tuesday.
Asked about the findings of an opinion poll that the government's popularity has dropped, Mr Abhisit said the government would just have to work harder.
He said the government rated poorly because the survey was conducted at a time the situation in the three southern border provinces had become more serious. He also understood well that the people would not tolerate news of conflict and corruption in the government.
... continue here
-- Bangkok Post 23/06/2009
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PM admits corruption, conflicts hit govt's popularity
Published on June 23, 2009
Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on Tuesday admitted that conflicts within the coaltions and corruption allegations had led to the government's plunging popularity.
He was responding to Bangkok poll' results that showed the government's poor job approval rating.
"Whenever there are reporters of conflicts and corruption, the public will not accept them. The poll is a warning for every one in the government,'' he said.
-- The Nation June 23, 2009
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'Corruption today beyond belief' - ArthitPublished on June 22, 2009The former deputy leader of the Democrat Party, Arthit Ourairat, has spoken out about troubles he sees for the current ruling party. In an interview with The Nation's Somroutai Sapsomboon, Arthit said his former party was being too lenient on its coalition partners. He said corruption was widespread and he urged the Democrats to no longer tolerate "things that are wrong".As a former Democrat, how do you see the government today - especially given the fact that the Democrat Party is seen as yielding too much to coalition partners? Is it against its nature?We must look at how the coalition was formed. It was well known that the influence came from many sides. In principle, the government was formed to administer the country for the benefit of the nation, so the policies of those who came in to administer had to go hand in hand. But the outstanding feature of this government is that its coalition partners do not share a similar ideology.If they say they want a government that can see to it that the country can move forward, then they must not stumble and must make sure that they achieve their objective. But the two- or three-party coalition that we see cannot go along with one another. Each [party] may claim to be working for the benefit of the people but in reality [the members of] each are after their own interests and those of their peers. Working for the benefit of the people is just a slogan.An example we see to day is the sharing of budget and loan money, which, when one looks at it, doesn't appear to be for the benefit of the public, but reflects more of what [Thais] call "division of the cake".My view is that it's better not to have this kind of coalition. But they claim this is for the survival of the nation, and that we must bear with whatever they do and must compromise and make sure that the government doesn't collapse. It's like the Democrat Party is trying to sail the government through, but others [in the coalition] do not share the sentiment and want whatever they wish.I tried to analyse it fairly to see if what they're doing is for the nation or not, but it's unclear. There are other issues that are clearer than the issue of national interest.What should the Democrat Party do?Adhere to principles and don't look at short-term [gain]. Look into the future too. When they have the chance [to become government] they must dare to take decisions on things that require decisive action - such as the bus loan project. They should have been firm on the matter, but instead kicked the ball further away without shooting it [down].Why did they dare not decide?I don't know.It seems as if corruption is quite pervasive at the moment.More pervasive beyond belief. I think the quality of politicians today is getting worse. The motive in becoming a politician is worse. It's clearer and clearer that they are [in politics] for power and benefits.In the past, illegally extracting 5 to 10 per cent [of project cost] was done very discreetly and without evidence. Today they have got no shame. They just spell out how much and do it in such a way that others will know without being perturbed. Some [politicians] banned by the Constitution Court still engage in politics without care and even become government managers and are openly involved in the management of party interests.Why? Is it because we're in a time of political crisis?No. Political crisis is not the problem.Society at large contains evil, to which people pay no attention. Society accepts [corruption]. It's severe and widespread, nationwide and not just in the political realm. Without "that something extra" no project can succeed. This government should have such problems, but in their wish to keep the government afloat [the Democrats] yield to this and that, such as the provincial [local administrative] budget, under the supervision of the Interior Ministry, which reflects the style of [bhum Jai Thai party] and not that of the Democrats, but the Democrats allowed them to go ahead with it.On the matter of rice and maize sales, in which [bhum Jai Thai] had problems with deputy premier Korbsak Sabhavasu, the premier appointed Suthep Thaugsuban, who is deputy premier for security, to sort it out - which is not right. This is not a political problem, why should it be resolved through political means when it's a problem of management?Is Abhisit today a different man to the man you used to know?He's the same man, but under different circumstances he may be different. He has to ensure the survival of the government and he can't do it alone. He should act quickly and decisively, however. He should have the courage to be straightforward because we no longer have time.How can he overcome the situation?If they still only think about survival, or fear to upset [their coalition partners] and fear that they may not join the government again in the future and so they must maintain ties - this is not the right thinking.You think the Democrats are thinking like that?That's how I see it.It's like the image of the Democrats has been tainted.I don't know. We must ask the majority. But the other day, Rangsit University poll discovered that the government [had] failed in their political and economic [duty]. I didn't expect it to be this bad.On PAD's new party. There has been report that you will become its leader.I don't know. What I discussed with the PAD was that if a new party was founded it should be a mass party and everything should come from the suggestions of members from below - be it on policy or personnel - so they can feel that the party belongs to them and not that someone has been pre-chosen as a leader. If [the latter] is the way of choosing a leader, then I won't accept it.Are you for the creation of the new party?Thailand should have a party based on ideology like this - a party that is honest and acts for the benefit of the people without seeking self interest. This is the only way to get out of the vicious cycle. But it's going to be difficult.Though the chances [of success] are slim, it's still a source of hope. There is no other way. I must praise them for rising up to light the fire of patriotism.What factors may lead to its success?1. The influence of new versus old politics. Old politics is still much more influential.2. Electoral rules don't bode well for the growth of new politics. There may be 10 million supporters of new politics but they're spread throughout the country and when district-based elections are held, they may not win any seats at all.3. As long as vote buying is not eradicated, it will be hard for new politics to succeed.How do you plan your political future?I have retired from politics and do not plan to return, although I'm still expressing political views because this is our country and I can't help worrying.If the situation changes, would you be ready to return to politics?It depends on what I would return to politics for. If it's the same old politics then I am through. Why then should I have quit in the first place?-- The Nation June 22, 2009
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Bangkok Poll: Majority unsatisfied with Govt
BANGKOK, 22 June 2009 (NNT) - Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has gained 4.06 points out of 10, according to the latest opinion survey by the Bangkok University Research Center.
The Bangkok Poll conducted on people’s opinions towards the Abhisit led government after its 6 months in office showed that Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva was given 4.06 points out of 10, decreasing 1.36 points from his first month or about 13.6 percent. The government gained the highest score on its work in international relations at 4.58 points out of 10 while receiving 4.13 points for social issues and 3.95 points for economic affairs.
Meanwhile, on the overall performance, the ruling Democrat Party was rated 4.38 points while its coalition parties gained 3.40 points, and the opposition parties got 3.46 points. The majority of respondents were most suspicious of corruption activities within the Ministry of Transport, followed by the Ministry of Finance and the Ministry of Agriculture and Cooperatives.
The majority, or 64.5 percent expected the government to remain in office for more than a year. The other 35.5 percent thought differently due to the unresolved conflicts among coalition partners, unacceptable performance and corruption problems.
-- NNT 22 June 2009
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Almost 30 Democrat MPs face disqualification
Published on June 23, 2009
As many as 28 Democrat Party MPs face disqualification for holding shares linked to state concessions, Thepthai Senpong, spokesman of Democrat Party leader said on Tuesday.
The Democrats will call a meeting on Wednesday to find ways for their MPs to fight the case in the Constitution Court.
He ruled out that the government's stability would be affected reasoning the Opposition could not launch censure motion since Parliament is in extraordinary session.
Five Pheu Thai Party MPs who face disqualification on the same ground would request the Election Commission to extend time for them to submit evidence related to their equity holding for another 15 days, an MP said on Tuesday.
"We need more time to check their equity holdings since they may have held the shares over ten years ago and some have wives or children who work in the state enterprises and were given shares as staffers,'' Pheu Thai Party party list MP Sunai Chulapongsathorn said.
Pheu Thai MPs who face disqualification include Sunai, party list MP Wirun Fuensaen, Phayao MP Pairot Tanbanchong, Bangkok MP Wicharn Meenchainant, Chiang Rai MP Itthidet Kaewlong.
At least 40 out of 61 sitting MPs are likely to be disqualified for holding stocks linked to state concessions, an Election Commission source said yesterday.
In its meeting today, the EC will consider the status of MPs - mostly from the opposition Pheu Thai and government coalition parties - named in a complaints filed by Senator Ruangkrai Leekitwattana and independent academic Somkid Homnate.
Six ministers are also included but they could resume their portfolios provided their shares aren't in media companies, the EC source said.
The six are Deputy Prime Minister Sanan Kachornprasart, Labour Minister Phaithoon Kaeothong, Energy Minister Wannarat Charnnukul, Deputy Interior Minister Boonjong Wongtrairat, Deputy Public Health Minister Manit Nop-amornbodi and Deputy Transport Minister Kuakul Danchaiwijit, according to the source.
It is up to EC chairman Apichart Sukhagganond whether the EC rules today on the MPs or waits, the source said.
Supachai Jaisamut, deputy government spokesman and Bhum Jai Thai Party spokesman, when he was deputy spokesman for the People Power Party, also filed a complaint to the EC against 28 Democrat MPs. But the EC panel in charge has not finished its investigation.
EC member Prapun Naigowit said the EC would announce its decision without waiting for the Constitution Court's verdict on similar charges against 16 senators.
The EC does not prosecute anybody, he said.
The Constitution's ban on political officeholders holding shares in companies with state concessions was also written into the 1997 charter and not just drafted against any particular politician, he said.
Whether senators holding shares before assuming their positions would get to keep them would be up to the Constitution Court. But the EC would observe the same standard in considering senators, MPs and ministers, he said.
The EC last week ruled against 16 senators with shares in 14 companies - PTT, PTT Exploration and Production, PTT Chemical, TPI Polene, Electricity Generating, Ratchaburi Holding, Sahacogen (Chonburi), Shin Corp, Thaicom, True Corp, TT&T, Manager, Bangkok Mass Transit System and Bangkok Expressway.
The disqualifications of the 16 senators would need endorsement by the Constitution Court before taking effect.
-- The Nation June 23, 2009
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Machines manufactured, programmed, and no doubt to be maintained by Loxley, subsidiary of K-Bank.
Mr. Vasant Chatikavanij, Executive Vice President of Loxley and Director of a couple of Loxley sub branches click.
Mr. Vasant is a cousin of Abhisits Oxford Collage classmate Korn Chatikavanij.
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Council of State to recheck lottery's legality
Published on June 23, 2009
The Finance Ministry has asked the Council of State to reinvestigate whether the online-lottery scheme violates any laws.
It also plans further research into the social impact, which would effectively lead to a further delay in the two- and three-digit lottery scheme.
The Government Lottery Office's board, chaired by Finance Ministry permanent secretary Sathit Limpongpan, will convene next Tuesday to discuss progress on the scheme, which now carries the name I-Lot.
Sathit said GLO director-general Wanchai Kirakul had been asked to consult with the Council of State and that it depended on the council when a legal interpretation could be made.
Earlier, the council gave the opinion the lottery was legal under the Lottery Act. However, it said an interpretation was needed, because numbers had been issued before by distributors, not machines.
"There has been a resolution that the scheme is legal, but we need greater clarity about whether the numbers can be distributed by machine," Sathit said. "And now, we are calling the scheme the 'information lottery', or I-Lot, due to the similarity of the distribution and proceeds-allocation patterns of conventional lotteries. It's not an 'on-the-ground' bet."
The GLO has also been assigned to study the social effects of the scheme despite many previous studies. Sathit said betting should not be encouraged but that it might be worth a try to legalise certain practices. Moreover, the office must also determine whether the lottery scheme can eventually alleviate the overpricing problem in conventional lotteries.
"The GLO has been tasked with solving these issues. It may scrap the scheme or, if it proceeds with it, explain it to society. Yet there is no deadline for when the answers are due," Sathit added.
Wanchai earlier yesterday said if the scheme were scrapped, the office could face a compensation lawsuit from Loxley G-Tech, which has the concession to install the online machines. The GLO board will convene next Tuesday to consider this issue, as well as the distribution of the Bt17 billion proceeds generated by the scheme.
The board will also ask to consider measures to ease lottery-ticket overpricing, including printing more tickets.
-- The Nation June 23, 2009
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So a wife of a guy caught for buying votes wins an election, and Thaksin makes personal phone calls - what a day for democracy indeed!
Will these people ever learn anything?
Nope - all they want back to power and here seem to be a bundle
of people who support these de facto thieve clans!
just looking at some of the evidence, hard to imagine why!
What evidence for what?
Why not stay with the truth? The husband, Pongsak Boonson, of the winning candidate Anurak Boonson wasn't caught with vote buying. that is not true.
Pongsak was red-carded for "making defamatory remarks about the Puea Pandin Party during his campaign."
Ohh, what a crime!On a sidenote, Pongsak was also part of the so called 'Friends of Newin' faction in the PPP, until september last year.
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Can't prove a double negative is so.
So there must now be videos of NON-KILLINGS to prove there were no killings.
Adjusting the meds may be in order...
actually the weird thing is a post
of some video clips that shows some gory situation that supposed to had happend in Iran and that got presented as evidence that there can not have been any killings in Bangkok. -
And Hagon, I could care less what you think.
Saying blah blah blah is not an effective rebuttal technique.
And that is not a flame, that is just truth.
Something far and few in between here far too often.
my question was if you could prove your fiction with facts. you can not substantiate your statements and it turns out that this was just your fantasies. i call this BLAH. it doesn't require a detailed rebuttal.
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what have this do to with the suspicion of a possible form of 'vote buying' with that cash handouts?
What vote buying? There aren't any elections on the horizon.
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Dems spent good money on education already,...
the connection came with context in the entry where i mentioned the cash handouts first in this thread. i juxtapose the actual fact of the governments cash handouts with the fantasy of A. that Thaksin promised money in some telephone calls.
and i would describe it as an attempt to buy sympathy. there is no question that this government lacks the overall support by the people and all parts of the society. it is some goodwill gesture by the government for the poorer. i don't believe that this cash handout worked as stimulus package and big boost for the economy. waste of tax money. other people can not do good with other peoples money, i share the Milton Friedman approach here. but anyway, if you want improve something with tax money, cash handouts for the poor is just the fastest way to waste tax money without much sucess of any improvement.
the good money for education? the government cut down the budget spend on education and one of their solution to "improve" the education is to hire more administrative officers. this is discussed on TVforum in this thread.
looks for me like fighting the unemployment rate with a blow up of the bureaucratic and administrative machine. (people working there are the same people that got send to the 'white shirt protests')
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so actually that stupid remark was just a stupid excuse that the government's 'social work' (handing out cash) is not a form of vote buying.
Spot on.
It just shows the mind set of these arrogant morons.
Just say the first lie that comes to your head, without any regard for how cruel and hurtful it might be to those less fortunate than yourself.
this 'moron' was defending that government give the less fortune 2000 baht (that is where the spot belongs to). not sure if that is so cruel at all.
technical speaking, how they make it possible for blinds to cast their votes, when it is required by the law that a voter cast his vote alone and without any assistance by a second person? if there isn't any ballot paper in braille or some other advance form and alternative from the standard process to cast a vote it seems to me impossible that a blind person can do it alone. with a law that prohibits any bystanders in the moment where a voter makes his cross and the requirement of the absence of any bystanders or 'assistant' make sense, there are some conflicts how a blind person be able to vote.
this thought maybe leads Chaowarat to the wrong assumption that blinds are not eligible to vote and without any verifying his own assumption he came up with that as quick excuse that the government providing 2000 baht can not be a form of vote buying. he maybe didn't choose most tactful words towards to the blind, but actually he don't wanted to cut down their citizens rights but just defend the government action to help them with cash handouts against the allegation that the government is vote buying with this form of help.
so whatever, this context given, a stupid remark as stupid excuse for a maybe also not so bright allegation (how many voters are blind? and why not support the less fortunate this way?), its just a lack of tact and not an overall super political scandal.
does anyone knows more about this government program of giving 2000 baht to the blind and how this is discussed by the different sides, who maybe favour others kinds of help provided?
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calling local villages and promising their headmen cash and power
to deliver their villages votes, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH DEMOCRACY.
how do you know that cash handouts have been promised in these telephone conversations?
Cash handouts have been happening forever here,
It would be idiotic to assume cash WAS NOT being handed out.
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I did not for a MINUTE think that those two pre-election bombs were
intended to cause actual harm to voters, but were a sympathy vote getter.
Makes PTP look more besieged by those bad government plotters...
so actually it's all just your fantasy and talks of hot air, not facts. typical A. BLAH.
but okay, look at the the friends of Newin gang? are the free of any suspicion of vote buying?
and the bombs, just placed to gain sympathy? any evidence for this assumption? just another BLAH by A., this time in bold.
would it realy to far out to assume that the Bhum Jai Thai didn't win for a lot of other reasons? and haven't both side the smell of a 'leader' who is banned from politics?
that fact that YOU can not accept that the Puea Thai won this by-election has nothing to do with democracy.
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the 2000 baht for the low income earner, the 500 baht for the elderly, the 2000 baht for the blinds? wouldn't be other forms to provide social support more effective in the long run than simple cash handouts?
Not necessarily.
Republicans and libertarians would argue that even collecting taxes is ineffective in the long run.
>>>
Going shopping is the fastest way to spend this tax money, if that was the point - getting fastest returns, it worked.
a libertarian like Milton Friedman would argue that you can not do good with other peoples money (tax money). and he is right.
but what have this do to with the suspicion of a possible form of 'vote buying' with that cash handouts? providing education or somekind of infrastructure that makes people able to set up their own businesses would be smarter, than a simple cash hand out.
the cash handouts can be described as an blatant attempt to buy sympathy. a shopping of voters with tax money. but i didn't worked out.
and a photo of Newin shake hands with Abhisit was maybe partly responsible that the Sakon Nakhon citizen vote for the other side.
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calling local villages and promising their headmen cash and power
to deliver their villages votes, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH DEMOCRACY.
how do you know that cash handouts have been promised in these telephone conversations?
and what about the actually cash hand outs by the government? the 2000 baht for the low income earner, the 500 baht for the elderly, the 2000 baht for the blinds? wouldn't be other forms to provide social support more effective in the long run than simple cash handouts?
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HagenvonTronje>> You claim videos wouldn't be accepted as evidence. I say, prove it by posting them.
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and for what exactly is 'your' clip any prove or evidence at all?
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why not contact the publishing house? they maybe can not provide an instant contact with the author, but answer some legal questions on the copyright issue.
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Now please tell me, when UDD, Thaksin and the rest of the criminals are using blatant lies to further their agenda...why should we give any, _any_, respect to their opinions or protesters?
first, similar videos and pics of wounded red ones in bangkok wouldn't accept as evidence by some narrow minded thaksin haters here. and evidence of violence by the army got met with lame excuse.
and how about some historical knowledge that is mostly not a sign of a functional democracy and not a democratic leadership if the government needs the military to crack down protests by the people.
anyway, that thread is about the arrest warrents for the red shirt leaders because they violate the traffic laws and instigate other to assemble in groups of more than 10 persons. that is their "crime." any further accusation are lacking evidence and a couple of media reports and government statements got proven wrong. so the blatant lies are coming from the other side as well. PAD, Dems and Abhisist apologists here in the forum are another prime example for this.
up to you if that 'we' in you don't give any, _any_, respect to their opinion or refuse even listen to them, chase them away with paper bullets, tanks and 'volunteers' in blue shirts or silly comments in a forum will not work out in the long run.
of some video clips that shows some gory situation that supposed to had happend in Iran and that got presented as evidence that there can not have been any killings in Bangkok.
Confronting The Iranian Dictator's In Thailand
in General Topics
Posted
so we can not discuss US politics. because some american wannabe heros would feel bashed. albeit operation Ajax would be a good point to start.