scratt

After the tsunami, someone wrote to the Bangkok Post, expressing the thought that perhaps it would result in tourists being given incentives in the form of cheaper rooms.

As the corollary though, expect to be nailed when the going is good.

Its just a business and a ruthless one. Tourists should not feel sentimental

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I for one did not endorce cheap deals paid for by suppliers in Thailand after the Tsunami. If people wished to do that as a business decision then fine. And good luck to them. It may or may not be a good idea.. But it should be a choice taken by suppliers...

Also prices do go up and down.

Globally people expect to may more at Christmas and New Year and so on.. Understood.

But can you see that being made to pay for something you don't want and have stated you will not use is wrong? I would rather they put an extra charge on the room...

Perhaps I just don't like the idea of food going to waste!

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But this is what I do not understand and am too lazy to read your first post again - why not arrange your program to take advantage of the meals - or book where it is not a factor - rather than complain to us? As a guest I might be upset but as it is an open charge and fully documented I would have nobody to blame but myself if I booked my room there. It appears you want to blame the hotel for your booking clients there; rather than yourself. The suggestion to find alternate accommodations I thought was a good one.

I was not suggesting your post had advertising as a primary reason (although it did cross my mind) - just that there was a bunch of stuff to digest before you got to the subject.

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Good point... We were let down by our agent in that we were not made aware of the contract deal. That is something I will take up with them. I have already let our clients know that it is our mistake. Simple as that. Andd it's really no biggie in that sense as I will put them in a different hotel and cover and tansportation out of our pockets to get them to their daily activities. That's what customer service is about...

However it does not take away from the fact that increasing room rates and then sticking something on the deal as a compulsory purchase is wrong! For this the Pinnacle Hotel is wrong. To be totally intransigent about it when asked by a good client personally as a favour is plain stupid.

The fact is that when you go to a shop to buy a jumper which was 1000 Baht last week for 3000 Baht this week and they then say that if you want that jumper on this particular day then you also have to buy these trousers for 5000 Baht you might feel a little peeved when your mate bought the same jumper alone for 2000 Baht the day before! I am using the exact figures for the hotel rooms, and Gala Meal rates in this example!

We are used to shops giving discount if you buy two or more things.. But not penalising you for buying any item on a given day! Yes prices go down after Christmas, but you still buy what you want, when you want.

I know few of us stay in these hotels here for good reason IMHO. So it doesn't affect any of us directly.

For the manager of the Pinnacle Hotels to say 'Tough Crap we just want to make as much money on this day as we can, and don't really care about your clients' is not particularly responsible or helpful. Particularly when you consider that I asked if they could skip the meal but pay a lesser (extra) supplement on the rooms as a compromise. What ever happend to customer service for us as a client, for our agency as a client or for our customer!

The simple solution is for us to vote with our feet. And to that end we will cancel booking with the Pinnacle and not use them in the future. Period.

I really wasn't coming here for sympathy.. Just to let people know about it and garner their opinons. I am sure if it was directly affecting any one of you you might feel it more... But I am grateful for the feedback so far..

Thanks for everyones time...

After the tsunami, someone wrote to the Bangkok Post, expressing the thought that perhaps it would result in tourists being given incentives in the form of cheaper rooms.

As the corollary though, expect to be nailed when the going is good.

Its just a business and a ruthless one. Tourists should not feel sentimental

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I for one did not endorce cheap deals paid for by suppliers in Thailand after the Tsunami. If people wished to do that as a business decision then fine. And good luck to them. It may or may not be a good idea.. But it should be a choice taken by suppliers...

Also prices do go up and down.

Globally people expect to may more at Christmas and New Year and so on.. Understood.

But can you see that being made to pay for something you don't want and have stated you will not use is wrong? I would rather they put an extra charge on the room...

Perhaps I just don't like the idea of food going to waste!

whilst i agree with everything you say , i am surprised that you find it necessary to use the services of these international hotel chains when accommodating guests in thailand.

inflexibility is their main selling point !

there are more than enough smaller , well run , characterful locally owned and managed hotels that i'm sure would serve the needs of your guests admirably and perhaps give them more of a thailand experience than the international hotel chains.

p.s. do you have any extreme lazing about and pottering around type vacations to recommend ?

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I have answered your first points in my post just above..

Hmm.. Extreme Lazing.. Come see me on a day off and I'll give you some free tips!

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Perhaps some of us were full having to eat all the advertising before getting to the meat; but I missed that too, and not going back for seconds.

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I really was not advertising. I do hope people realise that. I felt the background was important so that people could see a balanced viewpoint. I have been on this fforum for a while and even contributed to it and other parts of it. In those times I had ample time to plug stuff if I wanted to... I did not.

I really hoped that people would sympathise (not with me as we will make money out of any package we put together as we are in business) but with individuals who come to Thailand and get exploited by this hotel and others that are like minded.

I repeat.. I do not have a problem with premium rate rooms over New Year. Supply and Demand. But forcing people to eat in your establishment, or pay for it even if they do not want it is wrong. period.

whilst i agree with everything you say , i am surprised that you find it necessary to use the services of these international hotel chains when accommodating guests in thailand.

inflexibility is their main selling point !

there are more than enough smaller , well run , characterful locally owned and managed hotels that i'm sure would serve the needs of your guests admirably and perhaps give them more of a thailand experience than the international hotel chains.

p.s. do you have any extreme lazing about and pottering around type vacations to recommend ?

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I have answered your first points in my post just above..

Hmm.. Extreme Lazing.. Come see me on a day off and I'll give you some free tips!

Does Extreme Sports Cafe Ltd. do anything for the hotel industry, other than use their rooms for accommodation purposes?

You state that your "remit is promoting tourism in Thailand" and that is commendable but why should a hotel manager offer you discounts on hotel rooms, particularly in the high season? The high season is when most hotels try and to improve their bottom line following a lacklustre low season.

You then state: Over New Year we have clients in the Jomtien area who are not particularly interested in paying a vastly inflated price for a Gala Meal and Dinner on New Years eve. They will in fact be going on a trip with us..

It seems like you have altered the itinerary from the original proposal.

You then state: I contacted our agents who told me that it was part of their contract with the Pinnacle Hotel, and that there was nothing they could do.

I think that your argument lies with your agent and whatever contract they entered into with the hotel on your behalf. The hotel, no doubt, have made certain preparations in line with the contractural requirements, assigned the cooks and perhaps even ordered the food from their supplier already.

If your company regularly used the same hotel chain for all of your Thailand functions I could understand your argument, but as you use various hotels I believe that the hotel manager was well within his rights, both legally and morally, to refuse you a discount.

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We have altered no itinerary. You need to read my post again.

We have also not asked for discounts on room rates! I even said specifically in my post I understand about seasonal rates. If you are going to take part in this at least read my post before commenting incorrectly.

This particular group are spending a month in Thailand and that is a small part of their trip. All the more making me feel bad for even suggesting that they pay money for something they don't want! They are doing everything from flying to Kitesurfing, to Wakeboarding etc. etc. and are doing all of that in about 4 different regions of Thailand. Their whole package is great apart from this one blight on it. It's a little niggle.. But think about it. You have a cool group of people doing a lot of stuff and paying good money for it, and on New Years Eve you have to tell them "Oh by the way.. if you want to stay at this hotel you have to pay US$125 for a meal you dont want. Is that ok? Happy New Year idiots!" Duh!

The Pinnacle happens to be right next door to two or three locations we use.

We are constantly searching for somewhere alternative, but most of our people want to fall out of bed and go straight on the sea. So they have something of a monopoly over us, and others who want to be on that area of the beach. And they exploit it. Good on them. But so far is too far..

For skydiving and other activities we do use small local operators and love them.

With those operators I don't even ask for discount myself because they are such good value I don't feel it's fair. They in turn often do wonderful things for us like the odd free meal, or let us party with the hotel owners themselves. They even run some of our clients to the hospital / chemist if they have a cold or other injury. All for no charge.

This is so typical of the small independant operators here I wish we could just use them exclusively.

For example Mr.Chans Coffee and Art House is a hotel and restaurant just outside the main strip of Pattaya. And we regularly fill that up with skydivers. We push small operators as much as we can, and try as much as we can to get our clients to go to these fantastic places.

However, a lot of clients want the perceived security of a chain. They then complain about the cost! What can you do!!?!?

So we have to supply for all of our clients and for all of their needs..

From camping right up to the Marriot.

For the latter the only way forward is to use agencies. There are just too many hotels and contracts for us to try and work on those ourselves with each individual hotel... Agencies overall do a better job and allow us to get on with what we are good at.. Sports.

With regards to our agency being at fault. I might tend to agree with you, but we have had consistent problems with the Pinnacle about room rates, under selling on the internet in breach of their own contracts etc. Plus it's run by a Fallang, and in my view, and personal experience these corporate Fallangs in Thailand are by far the worst at having little or no regard for Thais, or foreigners who either live here or holiday here..

To be honest I really don't want the hotel side of the business. The margin is so low on some of them that with credit card and bank charges we even make a loss on certain hotels.. But that's business... People want a package we do the best to supply it.

And don't get me started on the profiterring by transfers agencies now that we are in the midst of the 'GLOBAL OIL CRISIS' <- should read. Another opportunity for normal Thais to suffer and big companies to wax lyrical and make more profits!

Hi all...

I am writing to you with regards to what seems to be profiteering taken too far by certain hotels in Thailand over New Year and Christmas.

I think we all know and understand that rooms have seasonal rates, and this is acceptable to all but the most unreasonable people. No problem there.

Extreme Sports Cafe Co. Ltd. operates in Thailand to bring people to the country for various Extreme Sports and other outdoor activities.

Our remit is promoting tourism in Thailand, and for the last two years we feel we have worked very hard and had great results.

We are based in Nonthaburi and moved our global head office here 2 years ago.

Although we work with clients globally, the majority of our business and clientele come to Thailand at this time of year - Nov - April.

We are focussed, particularly post-Tsunami, on rebuilding trade in those areas of Thailand perceived as 'damaged', and also maintaining visits to the rest of the country.

Activities we offer are Kitesurfing and Windsurfing, Skydiving, Climbing, Scuba Diving etc. etc.

We have even opened the only civilian Drop Zone in South East Asia. Skydive Thailand.

We have spent the last 18 months investing heavily in Thailand and also sending many hundreds of groups of people to hotels and extreme sports schools all over the country.

We support every facet of business here. From the small individual operator to the large corporate chains. We pride ourselves on tailoring our experiences personally for each client, and dealing with their wants and needs. Our job is to make sure they get safe, cost-effective packages and have a great time.

We use various hotels in Thailand through an agency, much like we do overseas.

Some seem to have the same view as us. Others seem less caring. Such is life.

Over New Year we have clients in the Jomtien area who are not particularly interested in paying a vastly inflated price for a Gala Meal and Dinner on New Years eve. They will in fact be going on a trip with us..

To this end I was suprised to find a charge added to our booking for them which comes to almost as much as four nights in the hotel for a 'New Years Eve Gala Dinner'.

Whilst we understand that globally Hotels and Businesses offer these sorts of 'packages' and try to package them with rooms as much as possible they are usually an option which you can choose not to take part in.

Hotels in Thailand already inflate prices for busy periods such as Chinese New Year, Christmas, New Year, and this is understandable. People are not always happy, but they understand and accept this.

Assuming this was a mistake I contacted our agents who told me that it was part of their contract with the Pinnacle Hotel, and that there was nothing they could do. I mention the Pinnacle Hotel Group specifically in this email as I am dumbfounded by their attitude and response to our enquiry to them about this issue.

My next port of call was Alan, the Group Manager for Pinnacle Hotels. I explained to him who we were, as we had previously dealt with the hotel through our agents Turismo Asia. He was however aware of us and I proceeded to explain our problem.

Mr Alan was quite frank. He stated it was a "good way for the hotel to make extra money over holiday periods". I said I understood (although his frankness surprised me), that my clients will not be in the hotel on New Years Eve, do not require the meal, and are unhappy (as I would be) about being forced to pay for a meal they do not want. Alan said thaat is the case with many vistors but they still must pay for this meal they will not get! I asked Alan if he would like to be forced to pay for a meal he did not want when staying at a hotel. He declined to comment.

We touched on many viewpoints in our conversation and I even appealed to him as a company that sends him many clients each year to please waive this charge on this one occasion for these specific clients. He refused, but was unable to give any reason why our clients should have to pay for this 'service' they don't require apart from the fact that it was standard practice globally (which is not true!), and the possibility of making an easy buck as he stated earlier in our conversation.

We will be pulling all future clients from the Pinnacle Hotel Group and advising any who ask to stay elsewhere next year. We feel it is time some kind of stand was made for people coming to visit Thailand and would be grateful if you could publish this letter so that we can get peoples viewpoints on this subject.

For 2006 Extreme Sports Cafe will not be supporting any hotel in Thailand that has this kind of policy over Holiday periods, and specifically The Pinnacle Hotel Group. We feel that seasonal room rates serve this purpose well enough and the shortsighted business practice of profiteering from customers when they are unlikely to have much choice when it comes to alternate accommodation at a certain time of year is shortsighted and immoral.

Thanks for reading.

still dont understand how it is a cost to the economy as everybody pays for the energy he use.

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If they pass the full cost of energy producing to you, You'll not be able to have your food either my dear friend. Oil is at a very subsidised price in Thailand. and the main source of electricity generation is Oil black gold

Cheers!

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Which is strange when you consider that the price in Thailand is the same as the price in the US... And people in the US are complaining that Oil prices are at an all time high, and they can't stand it!

I know ###### well that petrol is not subsidised in the US. Perhaps part of the problem is the fact that other oil consuming countries are abusing their power and priveledge when it comes to current oil situation.

How about using the hot air all the politicians produce to power a huge hydroelectric plant.

That will solve two problem...

Get rid of the politicians As they will be locked away in a plant somewhere..

Produce cheap fuel.

Heck, we could just burn the politicians.

That would help in Chiang Mai in the winter.

You didn't add that in order to get a Thai Driving license you either need to pay your embassy for a home check, for which in the Birtish Embassys case they charge you 3000 Baht, make you wait 24 hours, and simply stamp the letter without a check.

I won't on principal pay 3000 Baht for a signature from an office boy.

So the other option is to get Immigration to ask your local police to come do a home check.

Of course the local police are too lasy to do that, so you then have to bribe them to get them to sign the forms 'cos they are too busy collecting bribes on the roads, and watching the lottery channel.

It's all very well criticizing illegal driving permits, but when the system for getting a Thai Driving license, unless you live in the provinces, is almost impossible legally, then sometimes an illegal one is the only way to keep driving..

In any case, our boys in brown will accept a postage stamp in lieu of a driving license as long as it comes with a 200Baht 'service fee'.

Heck, I would be wiling to wager that most female thai drivers in BMW's never had a license in their life!!

I sense higher tax for foreigners on the horizon...

Governor lays out strategy for war on ‘taxi mafia’

PHUKET CITY: -- Governor Udomsak Uswarangkura has unveiled more plans for cleaning up taxi and tuk-tuk services and reducing the influence of the island’s “taxi mafia”.

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They should try applying the meter rule all over Thailand! Particularly in downtown Bangkok.

Have you tried ebay? We have gotten some sellers on ebay to ship overseas for us before. Depends on the seller but make sure you check with them first about shipping overseas before making a bid. My husband got some outboard parts for about 1/3rd the price on ebay (including the shipping price) and is now a big fan!

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Cool idea. Thnx.

Will give that a shot now....

Where are you? I saw a beauty supply store across the street from the WTC, next to Gaysorn Plaza,  when I was in Bangkok a few weeks ago. Don't know if they would have relaxers but if they don't they might know where to get it.

A man who helps his wife with her hair? What a catch!

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Hi sbk..

We are based in Nonthaburi at the moment. But will also be moving to Koh Phangan later this year (noticed that you put yourself down as from there...) and spending six months of the year there, and six months in Bangkok. We have a business in Jomtien also and I have ventured out around Pattaya looking, thinking that perhaps it might be available there...

Thanks for the suggestion about the WTC... I will check that out next time I am down there...

The really annoying thing is I have found this stuff on Amazon and everywhere, but no one seems to ship it here. When I tried to order on Amazon it simply stated that they don't ship that product to our chosen destination!! Strange!

By the way.. I actually find relaxing my wife's hair quite relaxing.

Hi there..

Just wondering if anybody here knows of anywhere in Thailand that sells Dark and Lovely Hair products...

These are specifically for Afro hair, and my wife who requires that I relax her hair once a month!!

Great fun!!

We are currently paying four times the value of this stuff to ship it in from the UK and I was hoping that someone here may have a lead on the stuff...

Thanks..

scratt

The following site regarding energy consumption etc. may be of interest.

Cheers.

Hendrik

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/BreakingNews.html

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Buying Oil Stock online now.....

I am quite willing to do this if the government will:

1) Turn off their air conditioning

2) Stop using 25 cars to move one not very important government official from A-B whilst stopping traffic which sits burning fuel for 30 - 45 minutes on the expressway.

3) Thaksin (God Bless him!) sells his Ferrari and hands the keys back to his Air Force 1 Jet.

4) The Police actually come to do home checks instead of taking 1000Baht bribes to get off their butts and stop watching tv in the police station whilst complaining they are too busy.

5) TVs are turned off in all the Tax, Immigration and other offices where the queues are out the door and people behind desks seem to be more interested in lunch time cabaret shows..

6) etc. etc.

I love it!!

Get the bike shops to fund the law change!

I read this and I wonder why I worry about getting all my company and Visa paperwork in order on the dot every single month / year so that my status in Thailand is 100% legal and I pay my dues to society here.... I don't begrudge this at all and it is a good feeling to be a "legal alien", hoping to get residency at some point in the future...

But when I read stories like this it appears I could simply not pay taxes, get deported, pop back into the country any time.... Do the odd visa run when I feel like it.. Etc. Etc.

This kind of situation makes a mockery of all the attempts that we hear about to try and "...keep undesirables out of Thailand".

Hi there...

Some of you may know I opened a Drop Zone in Thailand recently.

Skydive Thailand

Well for the first two weeks in March we have the Thai Sky Festival in Prachuab.

Thai Sky Festival

Skydivers from all over the world come...

The whole process is to raise money for Children in Thailand and Tandem Skydives (Anybody can do them) are on offer at really bargain prices...

If you are interested you can PM me, or get my mobile number off the Skydive Thailand web site...

Come down anytime, have a blast with Skydivers from all over the world. Perhaps talk about learning to skydive and do a Tandem knowing the money is going to a good local cause.

Just a thought...

All the best,

scratt

Cracks me up that it is 86% complete - how can they arrive at such a precise figure? And 86% timewise, moneywise, constructionwise; accounting for employing staff, kitting out exractor vents in the kitchens, ........?

Reminds me of Spock rating the Enterprises chances of surviving a particular disaster at 8.409%  - ROUGHLY.

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Forget the airport opening... What about the support road system!

It doesn't look to me like it will be ready any time soon either....

Just bought a Toyota Vigo recently and was offered a 30% down deal by the salesman (3-5 yrs. to pay the balance).  I declined and paid cash outright, but it appears that all that is required to go the finance route is a NonImm-O visa.  No work permit reqd. 

This is based on my experience with this one purchase only.  I'm sure others here will clarify the options.

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Yeah... I bought one with a slightly larger deposit and a Non-Imm Visa... and photo-copy of my Work Permit... They didn't seem too fussed about that bit though.

I did show them documents showing that I own my own company and we own our Condo, but they just looked at them.

The slightly larger deposit was because I was a foreigner, about 1/3 of the purcahse price.

No biggie.. less interest!

Hi there....

I have a company in Bangkok and a Work Permit and Visa etc..

Was quite a learning experience and am slowly learning the ropes.

I am now starting to look at half year and end of year accounts and renewing my visa for next year. My wife is a Fallang so she has a spouse visa.

I have been told that end of year account will be around 10 - 15,000 Baht.

This seems quite expensive bearing in mind our company has barely traded for four months of the first year it has been incorporated. It took that long to get my Work Permit through.

We have also handled the filing of all of our VAT and salary returns ourselves in house so our paperwork is in order.. Big thanks to all the staff at the Nonthaburi tax office!

On top of that I have been told around 6 - 8000 to file my end of year salary tax return.

I have also been quoted something like 10,000 - 12,000 Baht for a lawyer to renew our visas... Again this seems a little high, as all our paperwork is in order and it is simply an extension.

Can anyone let me know if these fees seem normal, or if they can recommend someone who does a competent job at slightly more reasonable prices..

It is amazing to me that legal fees in Bangkok are higher than the UK!!!

Thanks in advance, for any help.

scratt

This 10M$ figure is just noonsense!

This is a symptom of the bureaucratic world we suffer today.

The system needs to be a few agencies agreeing to keep in touch and have an emergency line of cummunication 24/7.

As has already been said. It is very simple to know when these Tsunamis are going to come.

Vertical movement on a large fault line at the bottom of the Sea..

As has also already been pointed out there were people in Hawaii with 'noone to call'.

I am not sure how the reaction would have been on the beach areas at the announcement of impending doom, or if anybody would have listened. Perhaps this is why the warnings did not get out... Panic can cause as many deaths as the actual problem itself...

But $10M just sounds like some scientists getting some toys and some government officials pocketing some more money...

Phones, people, common sense do not cost that kind of money! duh!

If any of you fancy doing a Tandem Skydive on Boxing Day just outside Pattaya at Pattaya Air Park please PM me for more info...

Alterntively email me: scrattATskydivethailandDOTcom

We are going to do a bit of a promotion on that day and offer Tandems at a discounted rate...

Great way to celebrate Christmas!

We will also be doing Tandems Skydives on the 2nd January.. But spaces are limited.. GREAT WAY TO CLEAR A HANGOVER!!

Any used car tent should have a few Government insurance stickers, ask for a "Por ror bor"

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Thanks. That's great.

I think I'll pop back to the guy I bought it from. (Didn't realise it was so easy.)

They organised the finance for me so I only have a copy of the book and a finance agreement... But he was very helpful and did me a cool deal so I am sure he will have one