pastitche

Regardless? Why should anyone disregard criminality, ineptitude, hundreds of billions disappearing from the country's treasury while the criminal running the show bloats his wealth?

That's the opposition claim, of course, that may or may not be fact??

If the evidence is there, the voters will decide. How else can a democracy function?

You can fool some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time, so to suggest that the majority who voted for the current government is suggesting they are all stupid. That will be the opposition claim.

My money is on a coup.

Incidentally did you mean 'gloats his wealth' or 'boasts his wealth'? Maybe a hybrid, and a new meaning for an existing word?

bloat

[ blōt ]

1. swell: to become swollen or inflated, or make something do this
2. excessively expand: to increase excessively, or make something do this
3. swell with pride: to become or cause to become unpleasantly proud or conceited

Try reading my signature. Some of the requirements of democracy are an educated and informed populace, a press free to post critical analysis, and an independent police and judiciary. Something is lacking here, besides your vocabulary.

I have read your signature - it is grammatically incorrect, so please don't be pompous. In case you are unaware, 'comprise' is not followed by an 'of'; perhaps you mean 'composed of'?

Jatuporn charged that Suthep did not actually want national reform but wanted to grab absolute power for himself and his associates.

I thought Suthep want to reform first then election? Many communities also agree to reform first then election. Only YL(TS) govt refuse to reform first.

Which communities?

Put TNT in the lower cliffs and blow it up. After the rockfall, Cambodia get their temple and Thailand gets what land is left still standing. No one wins and no one loses!

Be careful what you say this whole crown of nitwits is libel to do some thing stupid like that. There is no bottom line on the IQ needed to be a PTP minister.

I suspect that their IQ is sufficiently high to know the difference between libel and liable.

I live in Phitsanulok , one of the provinces alleged to be flooded. It s not. I spent the weekend in Uthai Thani and Ayuthayai.There was no flooding. Can we stop the hysterical nonsense and talk about the actual situation with perhaps reports from those in areas whyich are inundated?

I don't believe that I have become more tolerant as I have aged. What has happened is that I have become more aware that my opinions which are of course incontrovertible fact will not be accepted by those who have been misled but will not be accepted by naysayers..

Accordingly I allow myself to keep quiet and tranquil and allow callow youth and even gun-supporting rednecks to voice their opinions without protest.

But I'm still the idealist I was as a teenager

Talking about impeachment and other methods of removing heads of government is interesting but how relevant is it to effecting change of government?

It is not unusual for a Prime Minister to resign eg Thatcher (unwillingly) and Blair in the UK. Both governments continued despite protests from the opposition.

So if Yingluck decided to bite the bullet and devote her time to more feminine pursuits, what would these protestors gain?

Probably a bigger, badder bulldog in the form of the "Yaopawa".. tougher than a ghetto soldier on the streets of Kabul.

Sometimes it is better to ignore the enemy understanding what it will become if it survives the attack wounded and returns with purpose and understanding. Let the confused beast wander endlessly.

You are probably correct about "a bigger badder bulldog" but what I asked was what would the protestors gain from YL's resignation?

Talking about impeachment and other methods of removing heads of government is interesting but how relevant is it to effecting change of government?

It is not unusual for a Prime Minister to resign eg Thatcher (unwillingly) and Blair in the UK. Both governments continued despite protests from the opposition.

So if Yingluck decided to bite the bullet and devote her time to more feminine pursuits, what would these protestors gain?

next there be beef that started the life out as horses , best bacon comes from the UK

Funny that ! a couple of years ago an old mate from England visited me in Australia and remarked how nice the bacon was, saying that in England bacon was full of water !

That's true to some extent but it's also easy to buy dry-cured bacon - even Prince Charles's produce - in any supermarket.

I don't think the U.S is to concerned about Thai pig farmers, they couldn't care less if they put them out of business totally as it means more money and wealth for the U.S at the expense of of the little countries. It is all about greed and the dollar.

Do you seriously expect the USA to allow Thailand unfettered access to its markets while the USA encounters trade barriers to Thai markets?

Really?

Trade does not work like that. If a country wants to sell into another market, it must be prepared to allow that market to sell into its own.

You do realize that the US position is no different than other countries and groups don't you? Do you think the EU, Australia, Canada, Russia, China just open their doors and say come on in?

Don't most of these countries refuse to import US pork because they believe it to be a health risk?

It's really puzzling how US pork could be cheaper than Thai pork in the supermarket. What we really need is an investigative article examining the gouging in the Thai pork distribution market channels. That's what makes Thai pork higher, the gouging and the skim in the middle.

So It isn't the US subsidies to its pork producers?

"If PTP is Thaksin's creation"

K. Thaksin is the owner!

Tut Tut your English is fading - Da Vinci created the Sistine Chapel - he is not the owner

It's interesting to read that 'very large numbers' equate a 'minority'. That's almost like 'the Thai' voted Pheu Thai', with 48% being a majority as in more than half of 100%.

Where did that come from, uncle?

What the @*$!)&^+ Has academia got to do with it. When the Netherlands offered help they were the ones who told the government we didn't need them.

Perhaps that was because the Netherlands expertise was indunation from the sea.

There are very large numbers of educated middle class people who vote PTP in Bangkok and elsewhere,still a minority but a growing one.

And there are a lot of people in other groups that vote for the Democrats.

This isn't a rich vs poor battle. If it was, Thaksin wouldn't be part of it.

I really don't think that we are too far apart (you and I and even Jayboy). At present Thailand is in effect a plutocracy, presently being run by the Shinawatras and that will have to change to ensure a stable society. I believe that there is only one way forward at this time and that is to let the increasingly sophisticated electorate express its wishes. They are not as stupid as TV members seem to believe and if a party, whether it be PTP or Dems can show that its intent is to make Thailand a more egalitarian society then all might be well. Otherwise there will be conflict.

If PTP is Thaksin's creation and he depends on it along with the Red Shirts that could easily be his downfall because of its grassroots membership; his weakness is that he might be able to manipulate their leadership but not those who have stronger ideologies than those who do his bidding for financial reward. There are younger people who have the same feelings about equality as the Civil Rights marchers in Alabama and Mississippi but without the racial aspect. In Thailand most are disadvantaged because of the position that society ascribes to them from birth.

The topic is high risk of more coups in Thalland not, "did a coup occur in Thailand" or "do I like the current government in Thailand" or " can democracy work in Thailand." Every thread is turned into an anti government thread for example the above poster wrote, "Any contribution to my question re how to stop the government from destroying the country? Or does this slavish, simplistic attitude of 'we won the election so we can do whatever we want', take precedence?"

Gee, man of course the party that put together a government gets to do whatever they want.

Every government in control is guilty of excesses in the excercise of power you only have to look at the US or UK to confirm that. What one does is vote them out in the next election; not lobby for the violent overthrow of the existing government!

I assume you are being deliberately naive to even compare Thailand with the UK or US.

Your 'vote them out in the next election' makes an assumption that there will be a next election, and that the playing field for that election is the same.

You raise the comparison with 1st world countries. I don't remember the UK having a party which changed the laws so it was immune from prosecution, as well as turn the clock back to nullify any previous convictions.

The 1st world has checks and balances which are relied on to prevent the country being destroyed. Artificially distorting election results by the manipulation of the less well-educated electorate, is obviously a Thai feature.

Hence, a distorted democracy and the mis-use of the responsibility a government is given, makes the ultimate Thai 'check and balance' likely.

Question - if another election is not held before Thailand, people and country, is harmed, what is the alternative?

A mature government that reflects thailand's electorate, rather than the PTP is the answer. So an end to corruption? Not likely.

In the meantime, if the playground antics of the present government are not contained, are the red supporters happy to sit back and watch Thailand slide?

I was born and raised in Detroit and Chicago. Detroit was more incompetent than Thailand and Chicago more corrupt (vote early vote often). I have first hand experience with the US Army in South East Asia that was in Thailand for 10 years. And not once during all my experience with major league crime, incompetence and corruption did I think of a coup.

Am I being deliberately naive when comparing Thailand to a first world country? I guess. Thailand could take lessons. Thailand is just a baby when it comes to corruption and incompetence.

What happened is you got old and moved to Thailand where you were no longer able to see corruption so you have no idea of the current amount going on.

Any time a Criminal on the run from the law living in a foreign country can buy the PM job and many of the ministers and tell them what to do and they try there best to do it at the cost of not doing the job they were elected to.

Well You have to be pretty blind to miss that. Also that is just the tip of the ice berg wanna talk about rice or the cost of boats for flood victims or the necessities for life during the flood that were just left to rot. The only thing the people had going for them was the Army.

You compare two crime ridden cities to a whole country. Here is a little tid bit for you New Orleans was worse.

As a matter of interest Dolly, when did you come to live in Thailand? You have said before that your second visit was almost disrupted by the airport occupations so. given your current age you must have been old too when you moved to Thailand.

Maybe it would be more germane not to attack/make assumptions about other posters when you could instead make relevant points.

Strange after a full page nobody's mentioned that most students copy their homework from friends.

The act of copying, though, is in itself a manifestation of what was said in an earlier post about kids learning to get socially as close to the feeding trough as possible.

It worked for me for a long time - I used to copy my Latin homework from a kid who was more conscientious but less bright. That was OK until I scored really well in the exam and the teacher was convinced I cheated..... karma?

OK so everyone has had their rants about why PTP can be justifiably seen as a poor government and a tool of the Antichrist in Dubai. However the thread is supposed to be about the Democrat Party improving its performance; any ideas on that front?

Personally I think that they have to make an effort to make themselves acceptable to a wider constituency than the middle classes in BKK and elsewhere; they need to capture those voters who have not previously considered them in touch with their lives.

A difficult task indeed in Thailand but the only way in which they will defeat the faux-proletarian PTP is to demonstrate that they represent the aspirations of all Thais

... the middle classes in Bangkok, and everyone south of Bangkok, and people in a couple of places north of Bangkok.

What the Democrats need is the chance to talk to people in the North East without the fear of being beaten up (both the people talking and the people listening).

Why be so negative and defeatist, surely you don't believe that a genuine reform prospectus would not be met with approval if the presenters of that prospectus had credibility? This is not the nineteenth century, there are many ways other than face-to-face by which to get a message across.

It is not only the NE that refuses to accept the Dems as a valid alternative to Thaksinism so there are converts to be made where the presumed intimidation does not take place. Thaksin is seen by many as a Thai hero who has been victimised by some mystical extra-political cabal which controls the country and which he struggled against. However his power and influence are waning and now is perhaps a good time to show that an alternative government with genuine interest in rectifying the shortcomings of Thailand's recent problems and its geographical split.

The question must be, I suppose, can the Dems do that or do we need a third party without the sins of the past?

A third of the country's voters voted for them. If they reform, will these voters still vote for them? Certain people don't vote for the Democrats because they ARE the Democrats. If they reform, they will STILL be the Democrats, and those same people will continue not to vote for them.

There are other ways for the Democrats to get their message out, but in the NE a lot of those ways are controlled. You can't just get your message out in print/radio, particularly when you can't get your message on the radio or in print for what a lot of the people listen to/read. You need to get in front of them. In other areas the Democrats can get their message out and get in front of the people and they do OK.

Thailand might need a new party with out the sins of the past, but that's not going to happen for a LONG time. What Thailand needs is a level playing field all over the country.

It seems that you believe the Democrats are condemned to live in the wilderness, unless there is extra-parliamentary intervention to install them in power - their core support may desert if they reform and those who don't vote for them will continue not to vote for them no matter what they do. That is defeatist; it is possible for a political party to rebrand itself (and steal the opposition's ideology) as Tony Blair and his team did in the UK. They succeeded in seducng significant areas of the Tory heartlands to vote for them in successive elections.

Of course the party that Blair led rid itself of many of the people who were seen as Loony Left and without that disadvantage he even won the support of the arch-capitalist, Rupert Murdoch - a media mogul who firmly believed that his newspapers had a great influence on voter intentions.

So perhaps the Dems need to get rid of the old guard and present to the people of Thailand a manifesto that guarantees a fair society without the inequalities and corruption that exist now.

OK I have always been an idealist.....

OK so everyone has had their rants about why PTP can be justifiably seen as a poor government and a tool of the Antichrist in Dubai. However the thread is supposed to be about the Democrat Party improving its performance; any ideas on that front?

Personally I think that they have to make an effort to make themselves acceptable to a wider constituency than the middle classes in BKK and elsewhere; they need to capture those voters who have not previously considered them in touch with their lives.

A difficult task indeed in Thailand but the only way in which they will defeat the faux-proletarian PTP is to demonstrate that they represent the aspirations of all Thais

... the middle classes in Bangkok, and everyone south of Bangkok, and people in a couple of places north of Bangkok.

What the Democrats need is the chance to talk to people in the North East without the fear of being beaten up (both the people talking and the people listening).

Why be so negative and defeatist, surely you don't believe that a genuine reform prospectus would not be met with approval if the presenters of that prospectus had credibility? This is not the nineteenth century, there are many ways other than face-to-face by which to get a message across.

It is not only the NE that refuses to accept the Dems as a valid alternative to Thaksinism so there are converts to be made where the presumed intimidation does not take place. Thaksin is seen by many as a Thai hero who has been victimised by some mystical extra-political cabal which controls the country and which he struggled against. However his power and influence are waning and now is perhaps a good time to show that an alternative government with genuine interest in rectifying the shortcomings of Thailand's recent problems and its geographical split.

The question must be, I suppose, can the Dems do that or do we need a third party without the sins of the past?

OK so everyone has had their rants about why PTP can be justifiably seen as a poor government and a tool of the Antichrist in Dubai. However the thread is supposed to be about the Democrat Party improving its performance; any ideas on that front?

Personally I think that they have to make an effort to make themselves acceptable to a wider constituency than the middle classes in BKK and elsewhere; they need to capture those voters who have not previously considered them in touch with their lives.

A difficult task indeed in Thailand but the only way in which they will defeat the faux-proletarian PTP is to demonstrate that they represent the aspirations of all Thais

Isn't it just possible JT, it wasn't sharing the cake that was the clue?

Not really. It could be for others.

I used frequently to share cake with my brother in law in coffee shops in Germany without either of us feeling that we were even noticed, never mind thought to be gay.

I said multiple times I can only speak for the USA in this regard. As far as brothers, sometimes people look like brothers and yes that would tend to mitigate assumptions.

JT if you meant this to be only about Americans you ought to have made that clear; on the other hand if you want opinions from non-US people that's what I was trying to give you. I don't have any siblings, my brother in law and I don't look alike in any way - I'm taller and much heavier.

Isn't it just possible JT, it wasn't sharing the cake that was the clue?

Not really. It could be for others.

I used frequently to share cake with my brother in law in coffee shops in Germany without either of us feeling that we were even noticed, never mind thought to be gay.

Inspired by an interview with David Sedaris on the Daily Show.

That was a classic interview, it was a book promotion interview, but they got so side tracked with the weriod folks wanting a signing, they never got to mention the book. Yesterday it was online. David was not even trying to be funny, but it was a real cracker.

Indeed. The cake story resonated with me thinking about the times I've shared a slice of cake with another man in U.S. restaurants; yes, people including wait staff give you that look of knowing.

Isn't it just possible JT, it wasn't sharing the cake that was the clue?

Actually a higher body fat % and being overweight does make people sweat more. Seeing that many foreigners are fatter then Thais in general id say yes they smell a lot worse.

Add to that the fact that many Thais seem to stay dry and don't sweat at all and you got a winner.

I used to sweat a lot more when i was heavier, now i still sweat more then the average Thai, i just make sure i shower enough or have a spare t shirt with me.

I'm not sure that you are seeing the same farangs as I am, most of the ones I know could not be described as fatter than the local Thais where obesity is not uncommon; perhaps it depends where you live. Sweating is a natural response of the body and its odour may well be nfluenced by the food that is eaten but your ideal of having no fat and an excess of muscle is not natural and completely contrary to how the modern human evolved

When I was an apprentice, many years ago, part of the job was to get sandwiches, newspapers, sweets and cigarettes, for the older chaps in the factory. One man smoked "Passing Clouds", which were oval shaped and had a lovely smell - anyone remember them ?

I started out on Players No. 6, then graduated to the (slightly) harder stuff.

Yes I remember them - as 11 year olds we were experimenting with exotic brands from the local tobacconist and I was sent for something we had not yet tried. When I returned to our hideout, none of us could understand how the packet had not been crushed in my jeans pocket but the cigs were misshapen.

SC ... is an option Portobello by the Sea?

That's located at Dicky Beach QLD.

Darn cold here now though ... so there is shrinkage for tourism numbers from us locals on Dicky Beach.

However, the number of crazy Scotsmen who find this weather just like Summer at home do tend to populate the Beach.

You sir, are a charlatan and a mountebank - there is nowhere in the colony of Queensland where the temperature approaches that of the Firth of Forth when the haar rolls in from the North Sea.

I had a former colleague, a sailor and a member of North Berwick Yachting Clubwho once said to me that he had "sailed in the Mediterranean Sea, the Black Sea, the Caspian Sea and, having been in a regatta around Portobello, have now sailed in the WC". They have built a sewage facility since that time, I should add

What's the difference between the Forth Estuary and a new penny?

A new penny is shiny bright.

My grandmother said that she used to swim off portabello beach, but my mother said she just went through the motions.

So pretty much the same as Pattaya, then.

So what with the news of the old industrial estate being turned into a 'tolerance zone' for prostitution, we have:

Pattaya:

For: Crap beach, hookers, pollution

Against: Nothing

Score: +3

Portobello

Against:

Used to have a crap beach, never used to have any hookers, pollution, but now all sorted

For:

Handy for Musselburgh and golf, ice creams and horse racing; and Leith Links just up the road, and a convenient bus service

Score: +4

So it looks like Portobello comes out ahead

Sadly my dear old grandmother sold the ancestral home some 30 years ago.

SC

And,

Many years ago on a clear day you could see the Gas Works. Is it still the same ?

At Granton? I believe that it's closed down - an ex-member of my staff shut down it's computing facility (as part of his contract, he said but I can't swear to whether British Gas did plan it that way). I think it's now part of the continuum of yuppie flats all the way from the Shore to dam_n near South Queensferry. So Leith is no more now - a maze of good fish restaurants and soulless pubs. Is that what they call progress?