Conno

When this announcement was broadcast on the 17th June there were a couple of other items that were included with the main 5 years PIT exemption headline. I’d be interested to hear other Bitcoiners take on those. Thailands move to implement the OECD CARF framework. Basically this framework is designed to automatically share digital asset information with countries worldwide, bit like the CRS that is already in place for fiat. Setting aside the ever increasing encroachment on financial privacy, It’s not really the point of course but as long as you are not doing anything you are not supposed to be doing then all will be good. Edward Snowden summed up this perspective very well when he said something along the lines of ‘Saying privacy isn’t important because you have nothing to hide, is like saying freedom of speech isn’t important because you have nothing to say’. Nuff said really. TradFi is moving full steam ahead into adopting crypto clearly, so we have to expect everything that comes with that. If you are an old school bitcoiner then this is going to be a hard pill to swallow. The whole idea originally was for it to be an alternative to the traditional system. Love it or hate it, I suppose that was always going to be pie in the sky dreaming and was never going to be the case once it started gaining system acceptance. Rough with the smooth, it is what it is as the youth of today like to say. The other point mentioned was a digital VAT type tax is being considered on digital transactions. Personally speaking I would find this sort of acceptable if it was something like 8% - 10% and that was it, but only if the 5 year exemption remained in place. Wouldn’t be very happy if that was in addition to the normal PIT after this 5 year break ended. In addition, wouldn't this just result in traders no longer trading? doesn't make sense. Lets see what happens, 5 years is a long time in crypto. One last point, it is pure speculation of course as we could all have been vaporised by mushroom clouds before 2029. but fun to discuss all the same. What do you believe the odds are of this 5 year break being extended longer than Dec 31st 2029? Personally speaking it seems obvious to me that to end this in 4 ½ years time would be an unbelievable stupid thing to do. Lets says because of this amazingly good forward thinking, Thailand really does become the crypto Dubai of SE Asia. What do you think will happen come the end of 2029? Personally speaking I would be positioning myself so that I would be no longer cashing out any crypto after the 31st of Dec that year. I’d personally be making sure I did all that I needed to do before the deadline to set myself up for probably the remainder of my life. In other words, if it really does close at that point in 2030 everything will simply reverse, people would stop cashing out and those that came here for the tax break will just leave. Also considering there is a very good chance BTC will be close to or will have already passed the $1m per coin price, to end it then would be completely insane. TIT though so anything could happen. Over to you.

Oh buddy that is so true. I'm assuming that number is the estimated revenue over 5 [4.5] years? I'd wager a huge underestimate. Here is another observation which tells you something else too, maybe I'm tempting fate but where are the 'It's all a Ponzi scheme scam' trolls this week? Would take a brave troll to start slagging off BTC these days. There I said it, incoming in 3....2....1

if you have been here for years and already given up links with the UK eg no longer have a property back there etc and never or rarely visit then nothing to do with HMRC as far as I can see. It will be about where you are considered to have tax residency when you cash out that will matter. If it has only been a year or so since you were a UK tax resident then I think you might need to dig deeper to make sure. Absolute minefield really. Personally speaking I have been here years, only bought crypto using Baht and only through Thai SEC licensed crypto exchanges, so I think it will be pretty straightforward for expats in this position, once we have real clarity on this recent tax exemption news of course. Second part of your post. Bitkub and Upbit Thailand [Make sure you don't first register with Upbit Singapore as both the websites look very similar] I was originally with BX [2018] before they shut up shop, I then opened an account with Bitkub and have been with them ever since. As a backup I also opened an account with Upbit Thailand. Bitkubs KYC way back was very easy when I first opened the account, then it became an absolute nightmare. Without fail I would get 'Your renewal details have been rejected' emails and then it would be a back and forth until it was all sorted. On one renewal after the usual back and forth communications trying to figure out what they wanted, I eventually received the 'your update details have been approved' email, only to get 24 hours later 'Your application has been rejected' email again HUH? This type of thing happened for a few years in a row hence the reason I also opened an Upbit account. It stressed me out no end really. However after saying all the above, the last renewal with Bitkub was virtually painless and was just about as easy as the early years. this may be because I now have a bit of history with them or it may be because they have finally got their act together. Opening an account with Upbit was relatively painless a year ago or so. One other point if you want to trade [I don't, I buy and hold for the long term] then Bitkub is a better choice than Upbit due to liquidity. Which makes sense as it is the No1 exchange in Thailand by volume.

Totally agree fellas, lets wait and see. Makes total logical sense though and it shows at least someone is looking ahead with clarity and vision. If Thailand can actually get this rubber stamped and for once make the rules as clear as day [Yea I know] they could potentially do a Dubai.....they need to do something as they are clearly losing the edge they once had. Do this right and it could change everything. Bitcoin is here to stay and it is heartening to know that some people in authority actually recognise this. I for one won't be doing anything until we know what's what 100%.

CallumWK While I consider myself well versed in most things crypto, Thai tax is a completely different and complex animal. Look at the recent mess and resulting confusion in this regard over the past 2 years. So given that, I’m not going to get drawn into the nuances of will this be tax free or won’t it, as basically at the end of the day at this stage nobody knows for sure. This 5 year tax break on crypto is very new and the devil will be in the detail, on face value it is looking good, but given this was only released out of the blue on June 17th there is still so much that is unclear. I understand you are wanting simple answers to complex questions, but TIT after all. For example we still don’t know if the amendments made in Sept 2023 to the foreign sourced fiat remittance rules are going to be completely reversed and rubber stamped. It is looking likely but lets see how things develop with both that and this new crypto announcement. You know how it is here in Thailand right, changes are always a slippery beast and are never clear from the get go. Sorry if that seems a bit of a cop out, but as I said tax is a complex subject and every individuals circumstances are different. How the TRD will actually view your example is anyone’s guess at this stage. What we do know is that the overall aim of all this is clearly designed to encourage new money be injected into the Thai economy. As usual how that actually works in reality we will need to wait and see.

Agreed, if the remitted funds tax reversal is eventually given the official stamp of approval, it will be a moot point.

No disrespect intended but I'm assuming you are not into crypto going by what you said above. Or maybe you are a newbee? Cool, let me try and clear things up for you. Firstly crypto is borderless, it is neither in Thailand or any other jurisdiction, it is in cyberspace on a blockchain. Nowhere and everywhere at the same time if you will. You are looking at it from a national fiat currency perspective which it most certainly isn't. It is still very early days regarding this announcement but on face value it is very good news indeed for crypto holders. I'm assuming the whole idea of this change is to encourage crypto people and their wealth to move to Thailand, Dubai style if you wish. Therefore if the tokens were originally acquired outside of Thailand, but the holder is now living in Thailand [or wishes to move here due to this favorable change] and they then transfers their self custody tokens to a Thailand SEC approved exchange for cashing out into Baht, this will be more than welcome and probably the very reason behind the move in the first place. Even if this is now exempt from tax on the actual sale event, the Baht when spent locally will help their revenue targets indirectly [VAT] Regarding your other comment about 'Was already on a Thai exchange' this is also incorrect. People who fully understand crypto do not leave coins on an exchange but rather they self custody. So in other words it is irrelevant if you had tokens already sitting in a Thai exchange or not, that's not how it works. For example, I have only ever used approved Thai exchanges since 2018 and I have left zero coins on the exchange and self custody as you should. This is actually the whole point of crypto, you retain control of your own wealth, no 3rd party liability, permissionless. In addition to saying that I have never sold a single Satoshi and only accumulated and held, because I was actually half hoping half expecting something like this to happen. It makes perfect sense for Thailand to do this, if there doesn't turn out to be some catch in the small print. Personally speaking I think the powers that be are going to be very happy with how this works out, I also have a feeling the results could prove to be so beneficial to Thailands economy over the next 5 years that there is a very good chance they may decide not to kill this policy come December 2029. I don't intend to get into a debate with no-coiners but Bitcoin is going to $1m per coin and more, it is now just a matter of when, not if. Global adoption and acceptance is here, whether some still resist that idea or not.

What an absolute pain in the rear this news is. For UK people who just need cheap and infrequent VoIP calls back home, banks, government offices etc and don't need a Skype number this might be an option. I've just signed up with Rakuten Viber which was one of the suggestions on page 2 of this thread. They offer subscription plans and a prepaid pay-as-you-go option like the one I had with Skype. I bought £9.99 credit using PayPal but there are options for Apple Pay and a Debit/Credit card too. They say £9.99 on the prepaid gives you 67 mins to UK landlines and mobile [plus worldwide numbers at different rates] which works out at around £0.15p per minute. or.... They also do a regular monthly £1.99 subscription that gives you 100 mins per month to the UK specifically, which works out a fair bit cheaper at just £0.02 per minute. So if you only need to call UK numbers the monthly subscription might be a better solution and the prepaid [while more expensive] if you want the flexibility of calling other countries too. One thing to note is they quote all rates in dollars and cents but when I bought the $9.99 USD credit it was charged at £9.99 GBP, which is a bit cheeky. I tried it out calling my UK bank and it went straight through and was a sharp and clear line. An option at least and up yours Microsoft. Not recommending them 100% as I only signed up 1 hour ago. Better and cheaper options may surface on here later, but this seems to work smoothly for now. https://account.viber.com/en/call-united-kingdom

Brill, the usual thing then when transferring to a Thai bank. Thx for the help once again.

Gotcha Big thanks for that. I'll give it a go with my UK bank sometime in the future. Not actually planning on selling anything atm anyway, waiting for that $1m BTC number. You know it's coming just a matter of when ha ha ha 2030 at the latest. Even then hoping BitcoinOS type applications on Cardano will allow smart contract staking of BTC, so will never need to actually sell the principle, only the rewards. Same same ADA. Increasing passive income for life in other words. So the wires you send from Kraken to Kasikorn are in Dollar, GBP or Baht? On a side note, I was living in fear for a while with regards my UK bank after hearing so many stories of Brits being debanked when they discover you are non-resident, The address they had for me was with relatives in the UK. I got one of those CRS forms from them late last year and I thought here we go. So filled it all in truthfully expecting my account to be closed. As it turned out the Halifax have absolutely no problem with me being retired in Thailand, so my fears were unfounded. Their online customer support desk actually expressed surprise when I said 'you'll be closing my account now then I suppose?' No she said, 'we have many customers who are now living abroad, it isn't a problem'. So dodged that bullet.....for now.

Hi mate. Can I ask you to elaborate a little on that Kraken account? Was the Thai addressed bank statement they accepted a UK bank and therefore GBP, or a Thai based bank and Baht? My UK bank is fully aware I am out here and therefore has my Thai address on the statements too. I have Thai crypto exchange accounts for Baht, but a UK GBP linked one would be a real bonus and backup if possible. What else did Kraken ask for along the KYC lines. cheers bud

You know you shouldn't have said that, now look what you have caused ha ha ha. Can't post the link as not allowed, but go to that well known BK publication and search for the following. ----------------------- Navigating new foreign income rules The Revenue Department is studying adoption of the principle of worldwide income. -------------------- Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Lets see how this plays out.

Think Jenkins reply to you may be being a bit harsh considering the limited details. You may be just an innocent 3rd party caught up in a scam operation, depending on your own actions all being above board of course. Found this which may shed a little light on the matter.

There you go BigBruv, was on the telly so still safe and effective. /S