kikoman

I have another Thai story to tell all of you that are considered ATM's .

I am getting up in age,where I do not have the best balance in the land, I stopped driving motorbikes because of my spells of poor balance. I wanted to add a side car on our house bike but was told that 3 wheelers are hard to handle.

My wife remembered that they had a 19 year old Honda Dream, stored under the mothers house for the last decade. We pulled it out it was in pretty bad shape ,but we took it home and washed 10 years of dust off of it.

My neighbors son, fixes motorbikes and does welding for a living, We ask him if he could get the bike in running shape, he said yes with about 2,500 baht in new parts. He disassembled the bike completely and rebuild the motor- got it running like new in a few days. Also it cost a couple of thousand baht for the iron to built the side cart. the job was done.

My wife asked him how much we owned him for his labor

His bill came to 600 baht! My wife gave him 1,000. baht.

When I asked her how much he charged her, She said 600 but she gave him 1,000.

I do not take advantage of people, I thought it was out of line 1000. baht for all the work he did ,it was still low but I gave him another 1,000.. He refused to take it.

I finally got him to take the money but he said he would come over with some friends and he would buy the whiskey and eats.

We had a great time and I think in the end I made a killing, a good as new rebuilt bike and a side car for the total price of 6.500 baht.

He was more than happy with the payment for his labor.

I do not understand the "all Thais see us as ATM's crowd" I have found out the opposite is closer to the truth!

Cheers:

The practice of penned up grain feeding cattle, is a process by which cattle are fattened faster and sold at market faster, this has been the backbone of the U.S. cattle industry, As the U.S. population consumes 25% of all beef world wide.

Raising grain to feed livestock world wide is seen in the cost of human hunger and poverty, in the developing countries in the world.

I prefer grass fed beef as it is the natural food for cattle, I also do not agree with the practice of feeding grain to animals ,instead of the millions of people that suffer from lack of food.

That is my preference not that I want all people to stop eating grain fed beef, that is the individual decision that each of us have to make for ourselves .

There is a movement to go back to grass/hay feeding of cattle, such as the Alderspring Ranch in Idaho that raises grass and hay fed cattle only. www.aldersping.com

I feel that importing the U.S. feedlot concept to the developing world would be a mistake as it would promote raising grain for animals instead of people!

There are cattle producers here in Thailand that already, raise grain fed stock and is available for those who prefer grain fed beef. The Manhattan Steak house in Pattaya, advertise that they serve only U.S. and Australian grain fed beef .

This morning the wife and I took some rice to be de-husked, and they do not charge for the service but keep the husks and unusable rice grain as cattle feed.

Also they not only make grain cattle feed, they use the husks to make charcoal and raise chickens to sell at the market.

The chickens are not the Thai home type but look more like a Leghorn and Rhode Island Red cross.

There are tens of thousands of these operation nation wide, if they do not use it to feed Thai cattle, they must export it to other countries.

The Thai beef eaters prefer their brand of beef , and it is a healthy alternative to grain fed feedlot beef.

Cheers:

If I may add my comments, as a poster already implied "Why buy TV dinners, when there is so many street vendors that sell ready made food so much cheaper"?

In my days when I lived in Pattaya ,I would purchase extra food from those vendors put them in the fridge and heat them up in the microwave ,when hungry. Lot cheaper and fresher than the packaged dinners sold anywhere!

Just another option for you to consider.

Good luck:

Cheers:

Is it true that frozen meat can't be used? It can only be fresh meat.... also, the stuff curing salt from "Royal.....phuket" is that ready to use? just add your sugar and other spice?

I use the stuff from Royal at the moment .... it is pre-mixed so just replace the salt portion of your recipe with it..... although I find that Royal has the worst customer service of any company I deal with .... and it is western owned and operated so there is no excuse ... many Thai run company's put them to shame for there customer service .... well Basil Fawlty would put them to shame for there customer service...... so I am sourcing new suppliers for the hard to find things... as I don't want to support Royal any more..... they are both rude and incompetent...... not appealing traits I look for in suppliers......

S.J.C

My wife called the lady that answers the phone in Pattaya, and she explained to her the lack of a responds to my first order and the big time lag to my second order. She asked my wife to hang up the phone and she would trace my shipment. She called back about ten minutes later and said our order was in Nakhon Sawan and we would get it the next day and it was delivered as she stated.

Thank you for the lead, it took a while but I have two sides of bacon curing in the fridge. At long last!

Thanks Again, Kikoman:

Cheers:

The thread is related to Thai, Mexican and U.S. beef, What an individual is willing to pay for Kobe beef is entirely up to them.

I would like to know what Thai based Mexican Restaurants are serving Kobe beef?

I will return to beef 101.

Mexican Beef,Hereford is the most represented beef ,not only in Mexico, but in all Latin America

Black Angus herd were imported to Mexico from Canada, which in turn exports feeders to the U.S.!

Charolai were imported from France to Mexico in 1936, Mexico exported the breed to the U.S. in 1950!

Limousin were imported to Mexico from France in 1936, which Mexico exported to the U.S. !

Mexico is the number one exporter of feeder cattle To the U.S., Thur ports in Texas, New Mexico and Arizona.

I would venture to say most Mexican restaurants in Thailand serve Thai beef, as it is the least expensive and tends to keep cost lower.

I purchased Australian beef in Pattaya, and it was tough and not tasty. I have gone to walking street and ordered an U.S. T-bone steak ,it was just as bad!

I do not eat much beef now, as I gave up on finding good tender beef!

My Experience with Thai beef has been better, with the cuts I purchase in Nakhon Sawan and the meat truck that serves my village.

My wife knowing how to cook beef to my taste.

I live in the real world what is available to me here in central Thailand, not what I dream for that is not.

That is the reason why Tex-Mex food will not be a theme of a new resturant in Thailand, the beef involved would be to costly verses , authentic Mexican food.

Beef is beef, end of story!

Well-argued,kikoman, it seems you know a great deal about beef and and know exactly how to prepare it well. No one is saying that Thai beef is the best, just that it's perfectly acceptable given the context. As I've said more than once, I've dined on Thai beef to great enjoyment, many times.

In beef cattle production, there is no one breed that can be considered the best. There are many variations in climatic conditions, production conditions, and market requirements throughout the United States and the world that breeds have to be chosen to fit the conditions and requirements for specific areas. It is believed that all modern domestic cattle evolved from a single ancestor, the Aurochs, which is now extinct. Modern beef cattle can be classified as one of two biological types, Bos indicus or Bos taurus. Each biological type has characteristics that are found in the breeds of cattle that fall under that classification, but

the breeds are not limited to these characteristics.

Source: http://imsonline.tamu.edu/Courses/Samples/...ocs/8393_ST.pdf

The cattle slaughtered for beef in most urban Thai restaurants represent a variety of breeds that have been successfully imported and bred here, from charolais to hereford, with native stock for durability. I have a friend in Loei Province - a Mexican woman, by chance - who has run a cattle ranch there for nearly 20 years. Not a full-bred brahman or native beef in sight, rather various hybrids of Angus.

However brahmans do produce good beef. The breed was established in the USA and is a principal source of US beef.

Brahman cattle, breed of beef cattle developed in the S United States in the early 1900s by combining several breeds or strains of zebu cattle of India. Brahman cattle have a very distinctive appearance with a hump over the shoulders, loose skin under the throat, and large drooping ears; they are generally light to medium gray in color. The breed has contributed to beef production through cross breeding with European cattle, e.g., Hereford and Angus. These hybrid cattle exhibit hybrid vigor, i.e., they generally exhibit growth and reproductive rates greater than either of the parental types. Several new breeds of cattle have been developed in the United States based on Brahman-European crosses, some important ones being the Beefmaster (Brahman combined with Shorthorn cattle and Hereford cattle), Brangus (Brahman combined with Angus cattle), Charbray (Brahman combined with Charolais cattle), and Santa Gertrudis (Brahman combined with Shorthorn). Brahman cattle have been extensively exported.

source: http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/sci/A0808699.html

One of the more successful breeds created in Thailand is Kamphaeng Saen, which is 50% Charolais, 25% Brahman, 25% Thai cattle.

JR, most Texas beef comes from Mexican cattle anyway, even if it originated in Spain (as I mentioned in my original post citing Mexico as the source for most Texas cattle) or elsewhere. Angus and Hereford breeds are the most common in Mexico nowadays, by the way. Texas was once part of Mexico fer crissake, get over it. You're over-generalizing. Your palate tells you beef A or B is better but in a blind tasting I don't think you could fool anyone.

Some people that are not very informed about breeds of cattle and numbers of cattle imported mainly to Texas feedlots from Mexico via the Santa Teresa, New Mexico -one of the 10 importation points in Texas, New Mexico and Arizona. Could learn a lot from the "Sources" indicated in your post,These sources where printed in the U.S. and by many Cattleman's Associations from Texas.

Also I was surprised to learn of the (Corriente Corresponder) North American Corriente Association. A U.S. -Canadian group who main purpose is 'Preservation of the true Mexican Breed of Corriente Cattle".

If possible will you provide me with a way I may communicate, with the people that have the Kamphaeng Saen herd or where its products are available. Also I could not quite make out the price, looks like 586.00 baht is that per kilo?

Thanks again for your most informative post!

Cheers:

I agree with the last poster, there is no need to continue with this thread, without having a civil disagreement , concerning this subject.

I proved my points,

Beef is Beef!

End of Story

The thread is related to Thai, Mexican and U.S. beef, What an individual is willing to pay for Kobe beef is entirely up to them.

I would like to know what Thai based Mexican Restaurants are serving Kobe beef?

I will return to beef 101.

Mexican Beef,Hereford is the most represented beef ,not only in Mexico, but in all Latin America

Black Angus herd were imported to Mexico from Canada, which in turn exports feeders to the U.S.!

Charolai were imported from France to Mexico in 1936, Mexico exported the breed to the U.S. in 1950!

Limousin were imported to Mexico from France in 1936, which Mexico exported to the U.S. !

Mexico is the number one exporter of feeder cattle To the U.S., Thur ports in Texas, New Mexico and Arizona.

I would venture to say most Mexican restaurants in Thailand serve Thai beef, as it is the least expensive and tends to keep cost lower.

I purchased Australian beef in Pattaya, and it was tough and not tasty. I have gone to walking street and ordered an U.S. T-bone steak ,it was just as bad!

I do not eat much beef now, as I gave up on finding good tender beef!

My Experience with Thai beef has been better, with the cuts I purchase in Nakhon Sawan and the meat truck that serves my village.

My wife knowing how to cook beef to my taste.

I live in the real world what is available to me here in central Thailand, not what I dream for that is not.

That is the reason why Tex-Mex food will not be a theme of a new resturant in Thailand, the beef involved would be to costly verses , authentic Mexican food.

Beef is beef, end of story!

Texas has changed a lot in the last 26 years!

Texas, California , New Mexico and Hawaii Are Minority/ Majority states. which means Anglos are no longer the majority in those states now as we speak.

With the change in population, also comes a change in the food. Tex/Mex is the so called Mexican food that has strayed further from the original American/Mexican diet. As it incorporated a lot of beef into its dishes, that do not exist in the other Mexican, Mexican- American border foods.

In my first postings I stated, that Mexican Cattle were feeder stock, that ended up in Texas and other states feedlots. Texans have been eating Mexican beef, for decades, as well as most Americans. Foods in the US will now be labeled from where the U.S. food supply comes from, many will be surprised at the production point of origin of the food their eating.

Beef is beef, where ever it comes from!

There is starting a movement in the U.S. to return to grass feeding their cattle as that is the cows natural food! Corn is not, so as to deal with the illness corn causes feedlot cattle and the great amount of Antibiotics ,given to feedlot cattle is passed on to the consumer of that beef. The U.S. population is becoming more immune to different strains of infection because of the overconsumption of the medication given to the beef they consume.

Cheers:.

I smoked some catfish (Pla Douk) for my wife, used coconut husks as she requested,

they came out pretty good, did not have time to take a picture, as she served them up and we ate them.Added on one more row of block , and a cement top to the fire pit, as it was hard to keep my fire ,as I wanted it.

I am still having problems getting the Sodium Nitrite, no one would answer the phone in Bangkok ,called Pattaya talked to a lady there and placed my e-mail order and waited, no reply. my wife called Pattaya again, talked to the same lady, sent in my e-mail order for 20 kilos, still waiting that was over a week ago, as soon as I get it I will start smoking bacon and ham.

Cheers:

I came here for a two month vacation, that never ended, I was very happy in the bar scene but that did not last long, I move out of Pattaya to Sattahip and rented an apartment for 2,000 baht a month, close to Pattaya but far enough away from its madness.

I met my GF lived with her for a year, we made a visit to her home village and I totally liked her family, and the people of the Village, My GF owned 11 rai of land in the village given to her by her mother.

when we returned to Sattahip, we discussed moving to the village, my GF was against it as she thought I could not be happy there. I told her I could be as the whole Pattaya life style was not for me.

Four years ago we moved to her village, found out it was to expensive to run the electricity to her land and purchased a rai of land for 100,000 baht, across the street from her family. We built and paid in full our home in 3 years.

As per Thai law , I know I cannot own land in Thailand. As all I have given are for my wife and her girls.When I am gone to that "Big Taco Factory in the Sky" I see her family moving in with her after the girls are gone.

People always ask us why did you built such a big house, for only a family of 4.

I know why and It is a gift from my heart to my loving wife.

Even if things do not go as planned and we part, I still will just walk away, leaving all to her for the happiness our 5 years together have brought to me!

That why I stayed here, I am happy and free here!

Cheers:

Preparation and cooking, have a lot to do with the final out come of the food being prepared.

I have seen this continually, as my wife has attempted to show other women how to make tortillas, using the same ingredients and quality of said ingredient and the out come is very different. Instead of a nice soft pliable tortilla ,some end up with products that resemble, hard crackers instead.

Cooking is an art,and the end results of the beef ,tend to be very different.

Cheers:

Its easy to think you are sure that someone is saying something negative about you when you have the language comprehension of a 1 year old baby but are in fact a fully grown adult.

Grow up, take things into your hands, learn Thai before you build a bloody house in some village somewhere. Dont expect respect for coming here knowing fuc_k all about anything and jumping in at the deep end.

Will, I think you make a very good point.

First of all, I'm not a Thai apologist, although I know I will be accused of it. But a few observations:

Are there Thais who make snide remarks about us farang? Without question. And a rude Thai person is ill mannered. But I'd say that anyone that seriously complains about that hasn't read the TV forum where Thai-bashing is a daily occurrence. And that's ill mannered, as well.

Thai people don't automatically deserve any special degree of respect...nor do we farangs.

And finally...at least for now...are farangs sometimes used by Thais as walking ATMs? Without question. Do a sizable number of farang use Thai people as nothing more than cheap sex objects. Without question. Tit for tat, so to speak.

The Thais who make those snide remarks do so with the expectation that the farang cannot speak Thai. The TV-ites who make their snide and insulting remarks do so counting on the fact that almost no Thais read these columns. I'd be terribly embarrassed if they did. TV provides a wonderful service, as it is designed to do, but in response it is not "our" shining hour. Hypocrisy is alive and well.

I agree with most of the points above. I think it was the second poster in this thread that lives in Samui, made a point that I agree with too...

I too live on Samui, & associate with more Thai's than I do "farangs" or what I call LOSF (Land of Stupid Farangs). Those who prop up the bar everyday & lead a very boring life... or need to get a life!

Give respect to the Thai's & you'll get respect back... it takes time to earn sometimes, but I have the best neighbours I had any where, other Thai's I know are just great too... They help me I help them (not money btw)... just every day things, like helping weed the garden or what ever... sometimes the Thai's give me a beer or coffee, sometimes I give them one... They borrow my tools, I borrow theirs... it works well.

I think too many farangs like to make it a "one way street"... Expect to get everything & return nothing... I always found that when I used to holiday here, but know lived here for two years & find it no different, show respect & get respect back.

"almost no Thais read these columns. I'd be terribly embarrassed if they did". I would agree with this too... some times I show things from this forum to the Thai's I know, they just roll their eyes!

Enough said!

I agree with your assessment of the situation, these people have not had any interaction with the normal Thai population outside of the bar scene. Then they make a value judgment based on their bar scene exploits.

I live in a Thai village, among the nicest, honest , giving and friendliest people That I have had the pleasure of knowing.

Get off your bar stools, if you want to meet the people of Thailand.

Cheers:

Well at long last, I am in the process of putting the finishing touches on my smoker, I made it mostly out of Thai pipes, I am going to try it out,while it is not complete as I left room for future modifications!

1st I purchased 2 Thai open ended pipe for 120 baht each.

I also purchased 2 cement drainage pipe for 85 baht each.

Also purchased 20 cement block at 5 baht each.

I laid then out to follow the plan I had in mind.

When I was satisfied, I put in the foundations and cemented all in place.

You will notice that in imag0018, I cemented some little Thai red bricks at the inlet of the smoke pipe. This was an attempt to defuse the heat and to not get a hot spot at the top of my smoker ( hope it works)

I laid some adobe bricks over the smoke pipe ,but I did not cement it in place yet.

I added a shelf to place my bacon on.

I placed the 2nd large pipe section on top of the 1st one.

I drilled holes in the large pipe and placed iron bars to hang my meat on.

Build the top out of my old wood fence, and drill 2 vents on top to control the heat in the smoking chamber.

Drill a hole in which to place my meat thermometer, (hope that works)

This smoker was very cheap to construct

That all there was to it, I will try it out in a few days!

I am hoping it will work, I see no reason why it shouldn't work.

Will post the results later.

Cheers:

I am in Manila now, and I ate at a mid-level buffet last night, certainly not anywhere with imported beef. Among the beef dishes, they had gyudon, roast beef, beef stroganoff, a couple Filipino beef dishes, and a beef stew. All this was with local beef, and all the dishes were really quite adequate. I would certainly return to this buffet were it in Thailand.

So that brings me to the question on whether it is the beef itself, or is it in fact merely the preparation?

I imagine cattle in the PI graze grasses that are not dissimilar to those in Thailand. I'm sticking with the notion that it's the preparation. Filipino cooks have the benefit of five centuries of colonialisation under the Spanish and the Americans.

When you find a Thai cook who knows how to cook local beef here, it's delicious.

I agree with your statement,the meat has the same background as Mexican and U.S. beef.

How it is prepared is also a big plus.

Cheers:

I divorced my first Thai wife in a friendly divorce action, we agreed to the divorce, the house was hers under law and we split possessions acquired during our union.

We went to the Ampur office and had to take two witnesses, we conveyed our agreement to the divorce personal and our divorce was granted in one day.I believe at no cost as I did not pay a baht and She did not either.

It is best to attempt to get an agreement with her, since you are willing to walk away, she will keep any joint community property you have, use that as a bargaining chip, in a court case it will cost you big baht to get a divorce and take a long time, if both agree it can be done in one day!

Good luck!

Cheers:

Thailand is no different that any other country, there are good and bad in all countries, if you place yourself in high crime areas, bar, bar girl scene drink a lot every day. you make yourself a target for criminals.

I must admit that in my humble opinion Thailand crimes at its worse are less violent them U.S. crimes.

I have never had any problems with my stay in central Thailand, very nice friendly people, the best neighbors I have ever had!

Cheers:

How you see the Thais, thats how they see you, If you come to this country thinking that you deserve respect- without giving respect, you will be disillusioned;

Thailand is not for every body, you must remember this is their country and they will live their life for their pleasure not yours!

Thais are discriminatory, I think not ! if you want to live in a racist society, go to the U.S.!

Whatever you do Thailand is not for you, do your self a favor and go somewhere where the way of life will be more to your liking!

Thailand to me is a Paradise, A wonderful life, country and people, for those who accept it as it is, those who are dissatisfied should seriously consider going to another Paradise.

Good Luck in your search!

Cheers:

I live in rural Thailand and do not speak Thai, I am hearing disabled and Thai is a tonal language same word different meaning, depending on what tone is used. I can not differentiate between the tones.

I have no problem in getting a long in rural Thailand?

Wish you luck in your visit, great country, even greater people.

Cheer:

I will NEVER again enter the King Power store for any reason, Thank You for the warning!

Thais do eat bread, walking by a local bakery in a small farming town, I saw the biggest hot dog buns that I have ever seen in my life. I asked my wife ,why were the hot dog buns so big as no hot dogs I have seen are any where near that size.

She looked at me and laughed, those are not hot dog buns, they are Ice Cream Buns, Thai vendor open them up and put multiple scoops of ice cream in them.

I brought a few and cut them down to hot dog size, they worked great!

Cheers:

I would like to see your products and price list before I could make a decision.

I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor.

Dear OP, where I disagree with you is as follows:

"There was no support for "the democratic process" from Asian countries -or from "Asean." None condemned Thailand for the Coup. This reaction is possibly because none of the countries surrounding Thailand are particularly democratic or have a democratic tradition and they reserve the right to a Coup in their own country. The USA and other Western countries expressed exasperation and dismay the yet another Thailand Coup.

There is good and bad in all leaders. Look at the Bush situation in America. He caused untold suffering and made a multitude of decisions to enhance his own agenda and that of his party. yet no Coup. Democracy cannot flourish with threats and possibility of Military Coups.

Abisit I assume is a good man, and may actually be a good PM, but his government is illegal by the standards set by Democratic principals. His insistence on holding on to that position and the power of the political and military behind him will only cause further entrenchment of his opponents."

What I think you (and many others) don't see here is that the whole world is not necessarily on the same moral standard in regard to government and democracy. And note that I am not saying which "moral standard" is ideal. I'm American, and I know that my country's democracy is flawed, as I suspect is the governmental structure of every nation. Each nation has its own somewhat unique combination of flaws.

To assume that all military coups are bad is...well, wrong. For example, the military coup that included the attempted assassination of Hitler? Good or bad? The military coup that eventually led to Idi Amin's exile. Good or bad?

An international politician I really disliked was Mahathir (sp?) from Malaysia. But I did like his stance when he once said, "Every democracy does not have to be American-styled democracy" (paraphrased).

I agreed with your statement that "every Democracy does not have to be like an American -styled Democracy"

Illegal Government by who's Standards?

Looking at Honduras, Zelaya was trying to extend his term in power, bypassing the Honduras Constitution law on one term in office.

Honduras Supreme Court ( The highest legal institution in the land) interpreted Honduras law that Zelaya's referendum was illegal!

The Army was ordered to oust Zelaya from office for Ignoring the Supreme Courts orders to cancel a referendum on changing the Honduras Constitution.

The Honduras Congress voted on the day after Zelaya was forced out of power, that the action was right.

You must remember that Zelaya's Liberal party dominates the Honduran Congress.

The US-brokered pact for a Unity Government, Signed by the Honduran Government and Zelaya, That the decision of Zelaya's return to fulfill his present term in office decision was left to a vote by Congress.

The results of that Congressional vote was 111 to 14, against Zelaya's return.

Have you ever heard of Democracy's - Balance of power.

South American Governments have elected Leftist governments, and those governments are against any type of pro-Right governments.

The Central American Governments back the decision by the people of Honduras ,as well as the US as the wishes of the population in Honduras to chart its own destiny!

Military Coup I think not! The working of the Honduras Democracy in action, Yes!

Sorry I made a Mistake it Should have been" have you ever heard of Democracy's- Check and Balances"

Not Balance of Power!

Cheers:

I also had my say and stand by my facts,

I will not comment on that subject,anymore on this thread.

But I still think, that the prices as quoted on this thread , are high.

Cheers;

I agree with your comments to a great degree, drinking and driving to me is a no-no.

Being born in Mexico to American Citizens, I enjoyed my life in Mexico, I moved to the States And agree with you that the U.S. is a police State. Why dose the "land of the free" have more people in prison that in other country in the world? Its prisons are being taken over by Corporations and most of the inmates are minorities in the U.S..

The North American Free Trade Agreement, ruined the Mexican Economy and allowed US Realtors to buy up all the land in the fishing village I lived in on the Sea of Cortez. Driving up the cost of living - that was the same as living in the states

Going from Puerto Penasco Sonora to Tucson, I was stopped by the police at 6 check points in the 112 mile drive within the U.S. and that was 10 years ago before the great Immigration crisis. While in Communist Laos on a visa run in my week there saw very few police presence , in Vientiane!

I am a law abiding person, live a quiet life in rural Thailand with a great wife /family and the best of friends.

I will never go back to the west, I plan to pass away in Thailand !

I miss my children in the US and Mexico but that is the only regrets ,I have of leaving there.

Cheers:

I was surprised by you sudden attack on the origins of Mayan/Native American food by the value judgment of your perception of what constitutes Western Food.

If you will notice the heading of the Forum, Foods in Thailand, Western Food, Farang food or Western food.

with an emphasis on Foreign Cuisines. Mexican food most definitely falls into that category!

You were the one addressing the issue of what you considered appropriate foods for this category, I never addressed the issue until you brought it up and stated you could care less who was offended by your value judgments.

We do not live in the world of Make Believe, Take a good look around,This is the Real World!

Italian food dose include tomatoes.

United States food dose include potato's.

Thai food (Thank God) dose include Chiles. And Those foods origin are the product of the Mayan/Native American culture.

Read Steven R King.PH.D Sharman Pharmaceuticals, Inc. Article titled:

FOODS THAT CHANGED THE WORLD

http://www.accessexcellence.org/RC/Ethnobotony/page5.php

Or just type in the title in search.

Western Food would not be what it is today without the contributions of Native Americans foods originated by the Native Americans of North, Central and South America.

Your value judgment do not have any value without documentation to validate your point!

Cheers: