davidgtr

Yeah this really is a weird to me.

I cant figure out the "40 kilometers away from the border trade market" bit as I dont recall any roads that go west from Mae La Noi all the way to the border.

But as the crow flies it is only about 35 kms to the Salawin river & the border, so perhaps there is something going on there that we dont know about.

Or perhaps they just need the money to build the road to the border & then help themselves.

Now I also wonder if any of this is related to the dams being built on the Salawin river & new acess for the dam construction?...

Still it's a wild one & reminds me of the proposal for the tunnel from MHS to Wat Chan.

So probably never happen

Lots of tracks in the Doi Chang / Wawi area.

Try going to Doi Chang from off the Den Ha road, route 1211.

Turn off in Huai San & head in that way.

Alright, thanks for the info. Uh, where is the Mae Jo Road?

Errh, the Mae Jo road is the road to Mae Jo, Route # 1001.

If you dont know where Mae Jo (Cho) is, you probably need to look at a map.

Try a piece of this one

Good luck finding the right "motorbite" around there.

Technocracy

Yeah I too thought I saw your post earlier on & was going to reply but….?

Anyway

You might want to take a look at this previous topic

Taking A Thai Registered Vehicle Into Laos, advice

as there’s some good info I already posted there:

Now you claim that you don’t need “You don't need insurance in Laos either”, this would be totally stupid to drive around there without any insurance, as you are only leaving yourself open to being locked up in the event of any accident, not matter who’s fault it is. So get the insurance & cover yourself as best you can.

Agreed getting into Vietnam with a Lao registered left hand drive vehicle is easy, but it is not the same with a right hand drive Thai registered vehicle.

And in the North of Laos you see plenty of Chinese registered left hand drive vehicles. The Laos’ have got their act together concerning cross border transport, only the Viets & the Chinese are dragging their feet to complicate the issue.

But make sure you’ve got insurance. Take a look at Trouble In Laos

to see what happens when you don’t take out the insurance & cant pay your way out.

Davidgtr,

On the topic of insurance in Laos the problem being that 95% (probably more like 99%!) of all people don't have any! So if you do have an accident it normally sorted out between the parties involved. I live in Laos and have a Lao registered pickup and don't have insurance - it's on the list to do however the excess on the insurance makes them unattractive i.e. $500. So regardless of who is at fault you need to pay $500.

We have Thai Insurance which was a requirement to take the car into Thailand. What I am basically saying in Laos is unlike Thailand it is not mandatory to buy insurance to drive into Laos.

I've already read about the fines etc from police in Laos and to be honest in the space of over 2 years I have been stopped once and it was MY fault as I tried do a sneaky right turn at a left turn only junction but was spotted. Even then I only paid 100,000kip (i.e. $10) - the amounts of money some people mention are rediculous and many are just hearsay.

Anyway I will ask my Vietnamese friend tomorrow regarding what paperwork is required to take a car into Vietnam. Obviously this will be from a Lao perspective BUT in theory it should apply to Thai vehicles also since they have the same paperwork.

Technocracy

Agreed that you should always try & sort it out on the spot if possible. But what if (1) your offer is not enough, the police are called & you’re locked up in a Lao police cell until it’s sorted out satisfactorily &/or (2) you hit some little kid who runs out on the road as you pass through a village. Surely having some 3rd party insurance is better than zilch & is going to help. I would also think that the insurance company can negotiate better than you. Get the insurance as you go in!

Where did my post go?

In brief it was: Laos bring your can with a car passport drive to the bridge go to the relevant booths for import of car and off you go. It's easy. You don't need insurance in Laos either.

As for Vietnam - as I said before I know people who regularly drive to Vietnam in Lao registered cars and they don't have any issues. But they are Vietnamese - unless the post is deleted like the last I will ask them tomorrow if they have any particular paperwork or the standard car passport.

Oh yeah just to add numerous Vietnamese car are seen in Vientiane so they don't seem to have any problem coming the other way.

But hey delete the post again if you wish .... then I won't be arsed to share any further info...

Technocracy

Yeah I too thought I saw your post earlier on & was going to reply but….?

Anyway

You might want to take a look at this previous topic

Taking A Thai Registered Vehicle Into Laos, advice

as there’s some good info I already posted there:

Now you claim that you don’t need “You don't need insurance in Laos either”, this would be totally stupid to drive around there without any insurance, as you are only leaving yourself open to being locked up in the event of any accident, not matter who’s fault it is. So get the insurance & cover yourself as best you can.

Agreed getting into Vietnam with a Lao registered left hand drive vehicle is easy, but it is not the same with a right hand drive Thai registered vehicle.

And in the North of Laos you see plenty of Chinese registered left hand drive vehicles. The Laos’ have got their act together concerning cross border transport, only the Viets & the Chinese are dragging their feet to complicate the issue.

But make sure you’ve got insurance. Take a look at Trouble In Laos

to see what happens when you don’t take out the insurance & cant pay your way out.

I have been trying the various local SEA countries for entry rules, carnet bonds, etc for a Thai plated car.

Laos seems pretty easy.. They emailed me back with full info and instructions.. Vietnam I keep hearing is not easy and they have not responded to any enquiry to either BKK or London Vietnamese embassys. Please post what you can find.

Cambodia also seems tough.. You can get into the country on a very short term (couple of days) situation but not leave the area close to the border entry point.. I have gleaned this info from sites but another embassy thats tough.. They fail to understand what I am asking I feel and eep sending me cut and paste info about tourist visas.

The Myanmar Embassy simply stonewalls and doesnt respond or reply.

I quite fancy transiting Myanmar and then India / Bangladesh (chitagong national park for tiger spotting) and then Nepal and Khatmandu and back. Its all so close around us but I cant seem to get access through Myanmar. Secondly would be a loop of Laos, Vietnam, Coast Rd Hanoi tyo Ho Chi Min and back through Cambo.. But Vietnam and Cambo seem to not want this.

Take a look at this website

Drive Indochina

who claim to be the experts & the ones who organized the official TAT Motor caravans throughout the region.

Since the Japanese have just finished the 2nd of two new roads that lead from Thai thru Lao and over the mountains then, onto the coast of Vietnam, I've been wondering if a Thai owned vehicle can be driven thru Lao and then VN.[and return] What are the legalities, permits, insurance, etc that one might encounter along the way, not to mention the safety factor??

I would even consider doing it 'caravan style' with other vehicles for support, so if anyone wants to come along, then let's work out a plan. I have a 4wd 4 door pick-up that should be comfortable and roadworthy.

seeking first hand experience on this adventure......

Vietnam entry is tough without prior approval.

For Vietnam entry you might want to contact Joe Rumble at Asia Vehicle Rental in Vientiane, who does regular 4WD tours Laos / Vietnam / Cambodia / Thailand, but with Laos registered vehicles.

I've left CM and my teak house at Suan Pailom (aka the Farang Farm) is available to let.

It's not far from CMU about 15-20 mins from town, in a quiet country environment:

2 bedrooms (we used the lounge to make 3)

lots of deck space

basic outdoor kitchen

indoor bathroom

huge storage space + second toilet downstairs

carport

cleaner air than town

Your own bamboo-fringed lake and gazebo

Silence (except for bird noises)

Nice neighbours - mainly farang (NGO workers, teachers, retired, etc)

The best of both worlds - rural peace & quiet plus closeness to town. The house is a slightly 'rustic' gem IMO

I paid 10,000 a month + power/water - not sure if will stay same

Email me at johnmac11 at fastmail.us is interested & I'll put you in touch with the owner.

Robroy

Sorry mate, but you forgot the bit about the seriously polluted life threatening envirnoment - Chiang Mai / North Thailand was unquestionably uninhabitable for human beings for up to six months of the year. After crowing everywhere on thaivisa.com & even the Nation how could you recommend this to your fellow man.

I went to BKK bank at Kad Sean Keew today and with a tourist visa they said something about getting an "Address Referee" (whatever that actually means - I expect a letter stating my address is correct) from my embassy or consulate.

A few months ago (when I first arrived in CM), I asked a song taew driver to take me to the following address which was listed as the australian embassy on a few sites I found from a google search. He had no luck finding the address since there was no soi written there ...

165, Sirimungklajarn Road Tambon Suthep Chiang Mai 50200

Any help would be great.

Cheers

There is still an honorary Australian Consul in Chiang Mai.

Contact: Mike Walther.

236 Chiang Mai - Doi Saket Road,

Sansai,

Chiang Mai, 50210

Tel : 05349-2480 & 05349-2426

E-mail: [email protected]

Is it open during the day?

Also, my apologies to those that responded to my magicians post. Its still in the works, just been mega busy with a guest from England.

Cheers

Phil

Interesting a google search for OT massage chiang mai turns up

1. At 1stop chiang mai: OT massage: is a dirty massage place where you can select from a good choice of young ladies with skilful hands. They are good at giving you a flirtatious and sensual oil rub down (600b all incl.), but draw the line at sex.

2. Under fabric & cloth at chiangmaiinfo.com is

O.T. Traditional Thai Massage & Karaoke, 302665-6. Charoen Muang Bazaar 459/100 Charoen Muang Rd., T. Wat Ket, A. Muang, Chiang Mai 50000. Fax: 302396 ...

3. O.T. Traditionnal Thai Massage

459/100 Charoenmuang Rd., T. Watgate, A. Muang, Chiang Mai 50000

tel.: +66 (0)53 302 665-6 - fax: +66 (0)53 302 396

So the tel number’s confirmed give em a ring. Let us know what the fabric & cloth are like, plus whether the girls are still young with skilful hands. Now it’s few years since I’ve been down there & I wonder if the joint is still heavily “manned” by Lisu gals from Phrao? I used to know a few of them well from the village.

Planning an off road trip with 4wd truck and want to check out Doi Inthanon from the back side....any one been there/done that and wanna share experiences. I'm not talking about rough off roading, just a trip away from crowds that won't tear up my vehicle and hopefully at high altitude where it is cooler. any places to set up a tent and camp comfortably safely???

Not really sure exactly where you mean the backside of Doi Inthanon, but Id say your only real options are

1. The Mae Chon Luang Road, north of Inthanon. This one could be a bit rutted towards the Huai Tong end. but check it out, once you get up on the ridgeline it is ok.

2. Maybe the Hin Lek Fai / Huai Sompoi - Pha Tang viewpoint track, SW of Inthanon.

3. The Khun Wang - Nong Tao road is just about all, if not all, asphalt now.

Not sure about camping out anywhere in the Nat Park. Probably should be in the designated areas.

Check out the Inthanon Eco Hut & the Karen Eco Lodge if you want to stay with the locals up on the mountain.

Dont know about "A route that they use from the west side of the mountain that is strictly 4WD, with beautiful views all along the route, and plenty of places to turn off for side excursions" - sounds more like a bit of misinfo probably gained over a few beers.

Take a copy of the Mae Hong Son Loop map with you & you should have all the right info.

Some of you guys might want to have a look at the Crossing Borders info on the GT Rider site.

Whilst this info is aimed at motorbikes, I think that it all probably applies to cars just as well.

The important things to note are

1. Proof of ownership, the green / blue book, & / or permission from the owner to temporarily export the vehicle.

2. ITP international transport permit

3. Carnets – you don’t need them for traveling in ASEAN with an ASEAN rego.

4. Burma at Tachilek is ok as far as the China border.

5. Vietnam is out (I think) unless you have prior permission.

6. Otherwise I think that Malaysia, Singapore, Laos, Cambodia are all ok if you just roll up at the border with the ITP & Ownership rego book. Only Sing could be tricky if you have an older vehicle.

Yes, it is very good in urban areas but in case you want to go "off the beaten track" in particular in the more remote areas, the ESRI/Garmin map lacks detail and often has no roads at all.

Hey I just want to find my way from San Kamphaeng to the Hang Dong Road

Crow Boy

If that's all you want, spend 99 baht & buy yourself a copy of the Mae Sa Samoeng paper map. Even the Blue Kiss is on the map!

And the map's available from the Downunder, right at the bar. See ya there on the weekend sometime for some real footy.

I am pretty sure it is soi 11 but agree with the other points you made.

Oops, just re-checked my GPS map & the Downunder is on the corner of soi 11.

Ah, now I can see why that location would be convenient.

Yeah we just drive around until we see the huge "Post-It Note" in the sky with an arrow pointing down to the Downunder

I agree on the Downunder being a good pub for a drink, pub food & watching sporting events - Aussie rules & Motogp - on their giant projection screen. Well worth checking out for a drink & no girly hassles.

The location is a little bewdy too, right on the corner of Nimanhamin Soi 9, just down the road from Fine Thanks, The Monkey Club & numerous other drinking spots with loads of young delectables.

Would the scaremonger alarmist doomsday guys who keep complaining about how dangerous & unhealthy it is to live here - please get a life.

Yeah I know the pollution has been / is a serious problem, but if that's all you're going to focus on I really have to wonder what the hel_l are you doing here. Surely there must be some other perfect pristine place in the world that has all the western creature comforts you need for a cheap 3rd world price that wont ever impinge upon a comfortable sterile lifestyle for 12 months of every year, year in year out.

Yeah the air has been bad this year for an extended period, but I personally don’t think the smoke has been a great deal worse than any other bad year. What’s happened this time seems to be the serious inversion trapping all the shit in the Cnx valley & all the other valleys in the north!

I’ve seen worse fires & smoke in other years. But it has not been trapped & hung around for so long. Eventually it goes away once we get a bit of rain. Once you’ve been here awhile you sort of get used to it & the unhealthy couple of months involved.

This time round we’ve had abnormal weather. A longer than normal dry season – the last real rain was in October. It should have rained a bit in any month since then, but we’ve had zilch, so the vegetation is extra dry. Now there’s been no “mango rains” yet, so it is even drier. Then we have the serious inversion to cap it all off & make lots of unhappy squealing farang.

If you guys want to live here long term, you’re going to have to get used to the dry season “inconvenience” of smoke & pollution. It aint going to go away at the frenzied clicks of your computer mouse.

The locals have been burning off like this for generations – they’ve always done it & been inconvenienced by the smoke for a few days / weeks when it’s peaked, & probably always will. They won’t change just because of 1 really bad year with abnormal weather conditions. Some years because of the (good wet) weather you hardly even notice it, as it is just miserable for 7-10 days. But it was not this year.

Its bloody silly IMHO if you think you can educate the locals overnight into no burning & high healthy environmental standards like you get back home. It aint gonna happen in the next 4 or 5 years, so get real. Perhaps in 3-4 years you might be able effect some improvement, but first the locals have to be convinced how to go about it “the farang way”, and then you’re going to need an effective waste disposal system for the refuse they burn, plus some alternative agricultural ideas to convince them they don’t need to burn the bush to clear land / fertilize the soil. Any of this is going to take time - a few years to educate the people & set in place some real alternatives.

Now a lot of the serious pollution in the valley is from dust & motor vehicle fumes. The north of Thailand is booming with thousands of new construction projects, plus thousands of new vehicles on the road every month. These are not going away in the next few months or years, so don’t expect any improvement in the near future – only more favourable weather might do the trick in the short term. If you saw what happened a few days ago – we had significantly cleaner air for 48 hrs, then puff, it was all back again. That wasn’t someone flicking the switch with fires & dust evaporating, but favourable weather letting all the crap blow away. Then it all changed & we’re back the same again. Let out a big whoopee when the first real heavy rains come & the air clears up almost immediately. Then enjoy life until the next smoky dry season comes.

Meanwhile take a look at this little beauty below.

Then think how did we all survive & get this far.

Congratulations To All The Kids Who Were Born In The

1920's, 30's 40's, 50's, 60's and 70’s!!

First, we survived being born to mothers who smoked and/or drank while they carried us and lived in houses made of asbestos.

They took aspirin, ate blue cheese, tuna from a can, and didn't get tested for diabetes or cervical cancer.

Then after that trauma, our baby cribs were covered with bright colored lead-based paints.

We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, doors or cabinets and when we rode our bikes, we had no helmets or shoes, not to mention, the risks we took hitchhiking

As children, we would ride in cars with no seat belts or air bags.

Riding in the back of a Ute on a warm day was always a special treat.

We drank water from the garden hose and not from a bottle.

Take away food was limited to fish and chips, no pizza shops, McDonalds, KFC, Subway or Red Rooster.

Even though all the shops closed at 6.00pm and didn't open on the weekends, somehow we didn't starve to death!

We shared one soft drink with four friends, from one bottle and no one actually died from this.

We could collect old drink bottles and cash them in at the corner store and buy fruit tingles and some crackers to blow up frogs with.

We ate cupcakes, white bread and real butter and drank soft drinks with sugar in it, but we weren't overweight because......

We Were Always Outside Playing!!

We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were back when the streetlights came on.

No one was able to reach us all day. And we were O.K.

We would spend hours building our go-carts out of scraps and then ride down the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. We built tree houses and cubby houses and played in creek beds with matchbox cars.

We did not have Playstations, Nintendo's, X-boxes, no video games at all, no 99 channels on cable, no video tape movies, no surround sound, no mobile phones, no personal computers, no Internet or Internet chat rooms.......... WE HAD FRIENDS and we went outside and found them!

We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and teeth and there were no

Lawsuits from these accidents.

Only girls had pierced ears!

We ate worms and mud pies made from dirt, and the worms did not live in us forever.

You could only buy Easter Eggs and Hot Cross buns at Easter time.......no really!

We were given BB guns and slingshots for our 10th birthdays,

We drank milk laced with Strontium 90 from cows that had eaten grass covered in nuclear fallout from the atomic testing at Maralinga in 1956.

We rode bikes or walked to a friend's house and knocked on the door or rang the bell, or just yelled for them!

Mum didn't have to go to work to help dad make ends meet!

Footy had tryouts and not everyone made the team. Those who didn't had to learn to deal with disappointment. Imagine that!!

Our teachers used to belt us with big sticks and leather straps and bullies always ruled the playground at school.

The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke the law was unheard of. They actually sided with the law!

Our parents got married before they had children and didn't invent stupid names for their kids like "Kiora" and "Blade

This generation has produced some of the best risk-takers, problem solvers and inventors ever!

The past 70 years have been an explosion of innovation and new ideas.

We had freedom, failure, success and responsibility, and we learned

How To Deal With It All!

And YOU are one of them!

Congratulations!

You might want to share this with others who have had the luck to grow up as kids, before the lawyers and the government regulated our lives for our own good.

And while you are at it, forward it to your kids so they will know how brave their parents were.

Come on guys, get a life.

Pa Pae, Mae Lao and Mae Sae are all interesting disctricts if you get off the main road and into the district villages.

Do they have accommodation?

sarpesius

Sarpesius

1. Cnx - Pai is only 2-3 hrs away. If you're just looking to stay somewhere overnight on the way, then there's no real need to start early to stay overnight

2. If you've ever been down the main road R1095, you will note that there's 2 ghouses in Mae Sae, the Mushroom ghouse between Pha Daeng & Tapa, plus Par Daeng cabins (in Pha Daeng) should still be operational.

3. I also think that between Pang Hang & Mae Sae there are a couple of other cheap home stay places / ghouses.

4. But, just go & have a look. If you see some place you really like, ask around if there is a place to stay. Trekkers have been going thru the area for years now, so it should not be a serious problem to find something anywhere along the way. If you don’t find anything suitable, then Pai is only 1 1/2 hrs way, once you are half way in from Cnx.

5. Take a copy of the Mae Hong Son loop map if you want to explore the dirt side roads.

Nothing ventured nothing gained. Go & check it all out.

Davidgtr - that's a useful-looking map. Given how variable Thai local maps tend to be, I like to refer to more than one when checking out locations, directions etc. Could you you please tell me the publisher/title of that map? Thanks in advance.

Thanks for the compliments. The map is called The Mae Hong Son loop, published by the GT Rider, 3rd edition December 2006.

Available many places in Cnx & on the loop.

Howdy,

Thank you very much. The guide has everything I was looking for and more. My wife even acted like she was interested .

Thanks for the help.

Chung

Chung Noi

No trouble to help. You might also like to see a list of legal Lao / Thai crossings

There are seven legal ones are:

1. Chiang Khong (T) / Huay Sai (L)

2. Tha Li (T) / Nam Hueng (L)

3. Nong Khai (T) / Friendship Bridge, Vientiane (L)

4. Bung Kan (T) / Pakxan (L)

5. Mukdahan (T) / Savannakhet (L)

6. Nakhon Phanom (T) / Tha Khek (L)

7. Chong Mek (T) / Vang Tao, Pakse (L)

So you're not restricted to The Friendship Bridge at Vientiane / Nong Khai.

A few days ago, I spotted an article in the current One-2-Go in-flight magazine about the Chiang Mai Royal Agricultural Research Centres at Baan Khun Wang and (smaller one about 6km further on) at Mae Jon Luang - both places have coffee plantations along with tea/macadamia nut/cherry/apricot/peach/pear/passion fruit/persimmon etc........ generally the things that flourish in a cooler climate grown on mountain terraces. To quote the article: "Baan Khun Wang...... is the biggest grower of Arabica coffee seedlings in the country, producing 700,000 plants a year".

I haven't been there myself yet, but the article gives these directions (from Highway 108 out of CM through Hang Dong):

"Drive from Chiang Mai to San Patong District and turn right (onto Highway 1013) in front of the Kasikorn Bank towards Mae Wang District. Go through Mae Wang and turn left. Distance: 88km (from CM city)"

Incidentally, my Periplus map shows a "Saturday Morning Caffe Market" (place of interest) on the left just after you turn on onto 1013 from 108. Might be worth checking out for your article?

Location Map for Khun Wang

(not the Periplus map)

Hi, I'm working on an article about coffee in and around Chiang Mai, both its cultivation and the growth of cafe culture. Does anyone know of any interesting coffee plantations not too far out of town? Also, if anyone can recommend any interesting coffeehouses or anything special to do with coffee in town, that would also be greatly appreciated.

I'm sure Uwe at Duang Dee guesthouse / Duang Dee Hill Tribe Coffee is a full bottle (cup) on coffee in North Thailand.

Could someone also tell me exactly where on the hang dong road the office exactly is and what's the name of it, or is it in Thai only?

Thanks in advance..

location. see map below

try john at jonadda guesthouse for drum kit hire. i think he might also have a pa system to spare.

dont waste your time coming north in the hot dry season - no water.

Op says he's heading over to Thailand in 6 months time which will make it September,

end of the wet season, I imagine that's probably the best time for white water?

Oops, you're right 6 months time.

In that case the Pai & Mae Taeng & Wa rivers should all be ok.

the legal vietnam / laos border crossings are

1. Dene Savan: Route 9E from Savannakhet in Laos to Lao Bao (V)

2. Na Phao: Route 12 from Tha Khek east to Vietnam. Note NO Laos visa on a arrival. You can only exit Laos from here.

3. Nam Pao: Route 8 in Laos from Thakek / Vieng Kham to Lak Xao to Cau Treo (V).

4. Namkhan: Route 7 from Phonsavan via Nong Het in Laos to Nam Can (V). Opened in Jan 2003.

5. Nam Xoi. Route 6A from Xam Nua via Vieng Xai in Laos to Nam Xoi (V). Opened in April 2004.

take a look at for a map & more info