ProThaiExpat

I have been contemplating using Paypal to transfer money from U.S. Bank account to a Thai bank account and reading this thread has led me to the conclusion that it cannot be done. Am I right?

As an aside, obviously PayPal makes its money off floats. It has control of your money for a substantial amount of time, especially when they freeze the funds, and earn interest on an overnight deposit, but not as much now since that rate has been kept so low by the Federal Reserve has kept the "overnight" rate so low.

Another example of the float scam is being done to me now. Check from Trustee in Bankruptcy (ie TRUST funds in established bank and under Federal Court control ) put on hold for ten days by attorneys trust fund bank. Once the attorney sends his TRUST FUND check to my bank, my bank puts a ten day hold on the funds as well.

Anyone wonder why banks are making so much money?

In another thread, can't remember where, there was talk of Paypal being available in Thailand soon.

I scanned their website and it would seem that if you had an account with them, that you could send money to Thailand via their system from your bank.

There was someone else who said a Thai bank was not a proper receipient for such a transfer.

Can anyone elaborate on whether Paypal is a method of money transfer into Thailand and what the cost is?

thaihome: Please elaborate on your experience with FIB.

I have studied their web page and am attracted by their a little above average money market accounts.

Is the fax letter approach the only way they do wire transfers?

How does ACH work?

I have a bill pay feature on the internet banking at my bank so sending money to them is easy by electronic check, but would like to learn of other methods.

There is information on the internet to the effect that the 60 strictly internet banks have with time been reduced by lack of interest to 20.

They do have a debit card so that is a good approach for paying non-cash purchases. I would like to dump my Platinium Visa for which I pay 145 dollars a year for. Screw the free air miles.

I tried to "chat" with them online on their website but three attempts ended for naught.

Any information would be appreciated.

Nice side step loburi3, what is the room number and on what floor is the office for change of visa classifications?

thaihome: Thanks for the link to First Internet Bank. Their money market account pays a fraction for interest than Citibank, where I am presently investigating setting up a money market.

If First Internet Bank of Indiana works with expats overseas over the internet, I will be a happy camper.

Jim Gant:

I received a response to my e-mail to my bank in the U.S. and a complete capitulation on the "can't tell you your limits for security reasons" even though the link I used could drain my account.

I was told in a somewhat oblique way that I could use my ATM (limit $500) for a "cumulative" total limit of $2500 per day.

Likewise, I was told I could use my debit card for a maximum of $5000 per day at any "point of sale transaction" with a merchant and more with a authorization call to my bank.

The gap in all this is "can a bank act as a point of sale merchant and credit a local account for $5000"? This was the gist of the post a couple of months ago. I asked then and was told Siam Commercial Bank could do this.

While the Siam branch I went to yesterday was a small one, they called twice, to their main office to answer the questions I posed, and they relayed the information that the debit card could only be used in the ATM machine.

My current plan is to try to set up a money market account in a "internet friendly exapat in Thailand welcome" bank who will wire transfer to me.

However, I am quite "put off" by the $50 fee. However, if it is once a year for a transfer to bring my baht account up to 800k , may not be too bad.

I get charged $2 for each ATM transfer. Then given a 400,000 annual budget, the ATM route and the wire transfer route cost the same. I had contemplated leaving the 800k alone in the bank and drawing cash through my ATM from U.S. bank for expenses, keeping the ATM slips to show immigration.

On reflection, the once a year transfer with sounds safer with immigration and less cumbersome in keeping the receipts, etc.

Comments?

RDN: There has been many posts suggesting that you can take out of Thailand the same money you brought in. So, in your scenario, if you came into

Thailand on a tourist visa, deposited the 800K in a Thai bank, were turned down for long stay, you could still take out the 800K because your bank book would be proof of the amount brought in.

Comments are invited and addition information on "how to take money out" is solicited.

Is there some proceedure to go through to take money out of Thailand?

Is the government involved in taking money out of Thailand?

How do you do it?

JimGant, lopburi3, etc. I went both to Bangkok Bank and Siam Commercial bank today as promised. JimGant was correct, that the debit card method of money transfer spoke of by someone in this forum some months ago was were I got the idea. I don't recall that post discussing a limit on the amount of transfer.

Both banks I visited today said the same thing. Both will accept Visa and Mastercard debit cards. BKK bank didn't mention a limit and I didn't ask since I don't have a Visa or Mastercard debit card. However, Siam Commercial made it clear to me that the debit card approach is limited to 20k Baht per day. Since that is the amount of my ATM limit, it doesn't help me any.

When my bank told me to use their ATM card to do a point of sale transaction at any bank, since it was also a debit card, and they refused for "security reasons" to divulge the limit, I can see that I was "handled".

They will be receiving a deluge of e-mails until we come up with some solution to this problem, which thankfully I didn't wait to solve until I needed the money.

Siam Commercial gal suggested that I get travellers checks in large denominations from my bank and they would cash them for 30 baht each.

Since I believe my bank gives free travellers checks to seniors and those with certain balances, I will try that approach as well. The problem, of course, is they usually require you to be present at the bank and sign the checks in their presence.

Will continue to update as I develope different ways around this problem. I had wire transfer priviliges at Charles Schwab with money link to my bank, however, I closed my Schwab account after taking a "bath" in 2002.

RDN: We are misunderstanding each other. Perhaps, I should have said as a preface to my question, the safe approach is the best approach, and if you have time and want to do it at home, do so for the peace of mind involved.

However, there doesn't seem to be any risk in obtaining a tourist visa, taking a VACATION in Thailand and getting your long stay approved here, then going back home and taking the steps that sever your relationships, knowing your approved for long stay in Thailand.

Of course, there is the cost of the "vacation" to consider.

I would appreciate your expanding on the financial aspects. Does your approach involve money in a Thai bank or can you do it with funds in a home bank?

Do you know what difficulty there is involved in trying to take your 800K deposit out of Thailand, if you are turned down, after setting it up while on a tourist visa?

Does anyone know the answers to these questions?

Dear John. (This is NOT a "dear john" letter)

Not to WORRY! There will be many very knowledgeable posters following this post with first hand experience regarding how to reach your objective.

One approach, which I have read "gurus" recommend is to obtain a non-immigrant O visa based on study of Thai culture. Since you are going to make this your permanent home, learning the language will certainly be helpful, so your being truthful when applying for this form of visa, which carries a 1 year extention feature, I think.

Lopburi3 or Dr. Pat please confirm or deny!

lopburi3: I am with you on the interpretation of the "or" in the regulation. However, having said that and knowing how loosely the translations of regulations are coming out of immigration, Dr. Pat may very well be right.

Again there is a lot of wiggle room for those who are polite, have a real need and who have long stay in Thailand.

RDN: So right.

It would be interesting to know what floor it is by each method of designation. I am fairly certain it is not the 4th floor above ground, so I will continue to use the 3rd floor designation until someone definitively tells me I am wrong. I call the the ground floor the first floor, so for ground floor "callers" my recollection is it is on the "second" floor. How the fourth floor got into it by someones recokoning, I just don't knw.

My recollection is that it is on the 2nd floor above ground or the 3rd floor counting the ground floor as the first floor. Can anyone verify or correct my failing memory?

During my working days, I remember alwasy muttering in elevators that there ought to be a law regarding floor designation, especially when parking floors are included on elevator buttons.

Eric: Now your talking like a pro.

Since I don't report every 90 days by mail I don't know how the receipt at the bottom of your report form is handled.

Certainly a self addressed stamped envelope will get your receipt to you by return mail. I have often wondered if immigration will send you your receipt if no stamp and envelope is enclosed?

Mails here are very reliable, at least for me. I don't think registering the letter will do much good unless you go for the return receipt approach.

I have often wondered if the guys who mail it in, photocopy it before mailing as proof of compliance?

You definitely want the receipt in your passport to prove compliance, just in case.

Since a major shopping complex and my favorite Japanese restaurant are almost next door to Chiang Mai immigration, I avoid all of the above by dropping the form off at immigration in person.

I photocopied their form many times after filling it in, so I don't even have to do that prior to dropping it off.

lopburi3 is so right again! Last month, I went to the small branch near the house for my "bank letter" the same place I went last year, and was told "no way" had to be from the branch I have my account, Bangkok Bank by the way.

Getting the letter from my large branch, I had occasion to talk to the Manager and she said, any branch can issue the letter since they all have computer access to all accounts. She even offered to call the manager of the small branch and advise of that fact. I said mai pen rai and left it at that. Before comming to Thailand, I would have insisted the small branch manager be taken to task.

And who said immigration is the only place to get conflicting information!!!

lopburi3: That would work for me. My ATM limit is the same as yours, so I will try the $5K tomorrow, as that level works for me.

I also sent a secure-link e-mail to the author of the "security forbids revelation" message asking for an explanation as to why the link that allows for complete withrdawal of all my funds is not secure enough to reveal a debit card limit.

I was NICE, and asked for her help in coming up with a solution to my objective of making $5k or more single withdrawals from Thailand without going the check route. I also mentioned that my "expat friends" have suggested that I change banks, but before doing that, etc. etc.

Will keep you advised how it comes out and thanks for your input.

lopburi3: I am going to try the debit card approach Monday and will definitely make it for substantially more than my $500 ATM limit. If they use the same limit for the debit card, then I am going to take them to task based on the information posters have suggested re: fax and telephone call.

I understand about security and since I am not there to set up any of the proceedures mentioned, arguably someone could capture my identity information and then without being physicall present, drain my funds.

However, when I inquired via e-mail, e-mail going through the same secure link through which I access my account, I was advised they couldn't even tell me my ATM limit or debit card limit, due to security reasons. Evidently, a low level functionary.

I will start writing letters if the debit card doesn't allow me substantially more than the ATM.

RDN: Thanks for your less risky approach. Please amplify regarding the financial responibility aspects of your method.

Are you saying that you can get a non-immigrant O-A (retirement) visa with a 365 day extention in U.K. WITHOUT having the 800K Baht in a Thai bank??

The only risk I can see to entering on a tourist visa, bringing the money in while here and then applying for the non-immigrant O retirement with 365 day extention during your first 30 days is the difficulty in returning your funds to the U.K. if your turned down for the change of classification here. Am I missing something?

Dr. Pat to the rescue!! Thanks. The accuracy of my posts is important to me and knowing your there gives me a lot of confidence that they will not remain incorrect long. Will not revise, as your message won't make sense otherwise.

ermooney/eric: You said:

Perhaps that's just wishful thinking

Your right.

We are all there on occasion so no derogatory implication intended.

What you receive at the airport from immigration, as far as I know, is an entry permit, not a visa, the entry permit is issued to visa waiver countries such as the U.S.. You must obtain a visa from a counsulate or Embassy inorder to later change the status to retirement in Thailand.

Decency is a relative term with clothes and money. Current interest rates are .75%. The highest I have seen in three years is 2% on a fixed rate one year account that doesn't qualify for financial responisbility with immigration as you cannot draw down on it during the year.

Off shore investments are certainly a way to maximize your return.

The major banks certainly are "safe". Lile decency, however, it is a relative term. No FDIC insuring your deposit however. Most expats bring in only enough money to meet their varing requirements and transfer money in from "safer" banks elsewhere.

All aliens residing in the Kingdom coninuosly for 90 days or longer are required to report their address in person or by mail ever 90 days. Fines attach for failure and enforcement has really been stepped up.

Leaving the Kingdom and re-entering during any 90 day period restarts your 90 day period as your entry document, the TM6 contains a report of your address.

An employee of the Social Security Administration, when checking on how some expats got direct deposits of their checks in Thailand, revealed that the checks are direct deposited in the New York branch of the Bangkok Bank, which then sends the money to the appropriate branch in Thailand.

I doubt they would do it without fee as they charge inter-branch transfer fees between provinces within Thailand.

Had Thaivisa been around with the great lopburi3 in it when I came to Thailand, I would have definitely done as he has suggested.

Unforturnately, my bank advised me that they would not wire transfer me money from my account even though I have online banking priviliges as I was in Thailand when requesting the service.

Thus I am faced with the problem of getting money here, while I am here.

Someone has suggested, and I intend to try it when I need to, is to use a debit card for a point of sale transaction at the bank and the very next day you have the funds in your account with minimum of fees. Wire transfer costs 40 dollars or more.

The poster said Siam Commerical Bank does it for sure. I will try it at Bangkok Bank and will let your know as waiting to try it when I need the money is unwise. Will do it on a test basis next week and advise.

Will you share the name of your operating surgeon and his specialty?

Having fallen asleep standing up while on duty in the Navy many times, I know what it is to be tired.

Physical exercise on a daily basis tires the physical body which causes the body to require sleep, whether you want to or not. Physical exercise also reduces stress.

Reading a boring book is a great sleep inducer.

Negative practice might also help. That is, getting a lot of exercise, ie a minimum of an hour and then try to stay awake as long as you can. The reverse of trying to go to sleep. You want to get to the point that you just can't keep your eyes open.

Light causes the body to awake and dark causes it to shut down and sleep. Thus a dark bedroom, air conditioned to a temperature where you are comfortable, a comfortable mattress and milk before retiring will all help.

While lying there trying to sleep, with your eyes closed, picture a dark hole about the size of a pencil or smaller in the center of both eyes. Now try to reach the bottom of the hole by mentally climging or sliding into the hole. The desired effect is to eliminate all thoughts from the mind except the dark hole and your going into it. The effect is very calming and even if your now very good at doing it at first, you will find that you are much more relaxed after attempting it. Counting sheep is the proverbial method. Anything to take your mind of your thoughts helps.

Alan: An Embassy letter verifying your pension income is only required when you are relying on that basis to meet your financial responsibility requirements for retirment classification.

While there is much information on various threads in Thaivisa that a combination of pension and bank account to meet the minimum requirement on an annual basis is allowed, latest information suggests that that is not going to be allowed.

If you can go bank account, do it. If you can't, you may have to have the full 65KBaht in pension income per month to qualify.

My recollection was a Phuket immigration boss opined that a combination was not allowed, if memory serves correctly. Again, that may only apply to Phuket, but forewarned is forearmed.

My experience dictates that it is so much easier to go the bank account route, that if it was me and I didn't have the 800k Bhat, I would borrow the money from a bank and pay the loan off with the pension. Living on half the minimum pension requirement is quite possible if your careful, and that you could do to save up enough to forever have the bank account in the minimum amount required, refilled by the pension so at the time of each years extention application, you have the minimum in the account.

Alan, you plan appears sound, right on, and approaching it the easy way, although you could do it with a touris visa as well, if that is any easier to get in the U.K.

Directing your attention to the purpose of the financial responsibility for retirees required by the immigration department, one must focus on your ability to demonstrate that (1) you have the required amount in the bank when you apply for the extention for one year (2) that your bank book demonstrates your drawing down on this money for your living expenses in the past year and (3) the replacement funds occur as a result of transfers from overseas.

When I inquired about a dollar denominated account at Bangkok Bank in CMX, I was advised they were only available in Bkk and that there were many rules and regulations regarding their use.

If your bank's rules permit you to access your dollar denominated account for your living expenses and you have some means of demonstrating this to immigration as well as meeting the other criteria innumerated above, you may wll be able to do it, however, expect much consternation and difficulty when you try to have that account qaulify. The immigration officer involved will also be a key element in that regard.

I can easily picture an immigration officer pointing out to you that the regulation requires you to have 800K BAHT in the bank and that the dollar equivalent doesn't meet that requirement.