ProThaiExpat

ermooney: The issue with me was where could I live at the lowest cost and have an enjoyable lifestyle to go with it. Thailand was an easy choice.

Everything you mentioned that could happen in Thailand in the future has happend and will happen anywhere else you choose to live.

I was living in a condo in Honolulu with a mortgage and one of the highest costs of living anywhere.

The equity in my newly acquired condo bought me a custom made home here in Thailand and paid for my new car. So I live a lot better, for a lot less here and even with the airconditioning running all the time, my electric bill is still less than in Hawaii.

It was an easy decision for me. Unless your home and car are paid for where you live now, I would sure like to hear from you where else is competing, in your mind, with Thailand as a cheaper place to live?

lopburi3&Dr.Pat: I was not specific enough in my post.

I was referring to the debit card I got from SCB. That card has a mastercard logo superimposed on it is the word "Electronic". It is further identified as a "hip card".

The letters of the card are not superimposed or raised. Therefore, if it was run through the card machines that use a carbon slip voucher, it would not imprint.

Who knows if the information I got from the staff at the bank is absolutely correct.

Thus, as I said, I am going to create another account to hold the majority of my money in Thailand and have monthly automatic transfers made to fund the debit card account. An ATM card for the main account is comfortable for me.

Up2u: You mistate the financial responisbility regulation: You are required to have a balance in excess of 800k, when you apply for your one year extention, in your savings account with regular withdrawals shown for living expenses, with only one "replenishment" augmentation required yearly from abroad to bring the account back up the the minimum 800K at the time of extention.

You said

This is not 800,000 stationary in your bank, but an active amunt to be transferred in every year

Your estimate of funds needed is certainly reasonable, but a little on the high side by my reckoning. Automobiles in Thailand last at least ten years before needing replacement, at the earliest. Anyone who hopes to live in retirement on a fixed capital investment has a lot of planning to do, including management of currency fluctuations. My guess is that your scenario is the situation of perhaps only 10% of the expats retired in Thailand at the present time. The other 90% have a lot less, although how many of them are living off capital and opposed to pensions is unknown to me.

OK Guys, I have spoken to SCB about my new debit card and have come to some conclusion regarding "card safety" and here they are ranked with the safest, in my opinion, first. Your comments are solicited.

1. ATM CARD: Requires ATM machine under your control, your pin number and your ATM card. DANGER: Only very sophisticated thieves can break this one.

2. DEBIT CARD: Requires an electronic reader to connect to system. Capturing the number off the card doesn't allow access. Must have card to make it work. The electronic bar code on the back of the card is what is read by the system.

DANGER: A quick swipe of your card ,AFTER your primary transaction is completed. Also, if you lose your card, it can be used by anyone. Immediate loss report is essential.

To maximize saftety, do not let clerk out of your sight while they have your card and follow them into any "other room" to ensure only one "swipe" is performed. I even followed one today into the area behind the counter as the electronic reader was below counter height and not easily viewable from over the counter. No problem with staff. This one understood immediately my concern. Mai pen rai.

3. CREDIT CARD: In my view, the DANGER of the credit card is that a carbon copy of the card can be made when a manual card machine is used in a small shop. Most often, card companies will accept hand written charge slips and "signature on file" excuse is accepted uniformly.

Fortunately, credit card companies will investigate and disallow fraudulent use of your card. I have questioned charges made to my Citibank Mastercard in the past and am satisfied with their security. Their computer is also fairly sophisticated in alerting security when your "credit pattern" is not followed.

I still think I will see if SCB will set up a master account, in addition to my new debit card account, from which they will automatically transfer monthly, a pre-arranged monthly funding of the debit card account. Will advise further.

This thread and the ones involving comment on David are rife with posts by individuals who don't even know what pedophilia is by definition. I provide the first definition provided by Google at the top of their search results, a 10 second exercise in being informed.

Pedophilia involves reoccurring sexual arousal and desires or fantasies

involving sexual impulses toward a pre-adolescent child or children

IssanAlex is NOT talking about pedophilia. He is talking about sex with teenagers, post-pubescent individuals. The age of consent is arbitrary and varies from country to courntry and generation to generation. Two hundred years ago, marriage at 14 was common, it was the onset of puberty that was the sign used to determine the age at which one could engage in sex, whether married or not.

Sex with pre-pubescent children is pedophilia by definition and is definitely a sickness, since sexual desire for individuals who have not themselves reached puberty is unnatural. Among all species on earth, there are teltale signs when a given animal is ready to mate.

Among humans, that age has advanced with time, from the onset of puberty, as women's rights have advanced. Giving a girl enough maturity to make a reasoned decision on her own regarding her body and her "choice" may well have been the driving force that raised the age of consent to what it is today. My bet is that in every country in the world, the age of consent by law today is set at a older age than it was in the past.

Universally condeming pedophila is a safe call, but using the same brush to paint older people who have sex with younger people based on varying arbitrary ages of consent is plain unintelligent.

In the U.S., one can be convicted of rape for consensual sex in one state, while if the same act involving the same persons occured a hundred feet away in another state it would not be criminal. We have all grown up with these laws so our posts would be far more productive if we discussed our various views on what the proper age of consent should be and whether that age of consent should apply to Thailand.

I visited the website a previous poster offered as a critique of Columbine and Michael Moore. Loaded with vitriol to say the least. However, I am not in a position to challenge his "facts" offered against Moore and his works, I moved on to his critique of the yet to be madefilem Farenheidt/911.

That critique places the author right where he is, a Moore hater and antagonist. Just read what he says about a movie that he hasn't even seen. His bias is patent without even a shred of objectivity. Many such on the web on any subject.

Happy to re-examine my 30k estimate per month, I am CMX too but not a hillbilly.

Electric - Now 5500 down to 1800 in winter

Gasoline 2000

UBC, cellphones 5000

Lunch at foodcourt 110x10 --1100

Water 110

Tennis 140x12= 1500

Insurance for car 2000

Carrefour for groceries, cleaning products, etc 4000

Home repair and remodel 4,000

Vacations abroad, trips to Pattaya etc ???????

I will stick to my 30k estimate per month

kasi: I don't agree with your characterization of Michael Moore as anti-American, when he is very all American, he just hates Bush and all he stands for, as do so many other Americans.

There has been a lot of press about his total commitment to defeating Bush in the election and the purpose of the film was to do just that. I am not surprised that the film gets standing ovations from those who agree with his point of view.

When Michael Moore or the democratic party starts buying tickets for the picture and distributing them free to registered voters, they will just be approaching the tactics of the Catholic Church and their champion, George W. Bush and the religious right when they gave away so many tickets to the Mel Gibson's horror flic that glorified the crucifixion of Jesus.

For those who have posted in this tread that paying a bribe is against their principles and through their individual actions they will help in erradicating corruption, I have the following story that was in the press a year or so ago.

There was a farang in the south who hit a Thai girl with his vehicle and I think broke a leg. He payed for the hospital and doctor bills.

The police told him that the accident was his fault and he had to pay them 60K baht for his negligence. The farang, in his newspaper interview, said he was adamant in not paying this "bribe", as he had lived in Thailand for a long time and had never payed a bribe.

He was put in jail, not to be released until he payed. He didn't.

After a year of incarceration, he was tried in court, found to be at fault and fined 60k Baht. When he finally payed the fine, he was then deported. The newspaper article recounting the events was basically a complaint by the farang about how unfairly he was treated in Thailand.

No one wonders why rocks found in streams are always round or why bamboo bend in the wind. Need I say more?

My guess is never. It doesn't seem to me to be the type of film that gets shown in Thailand.

There was a poorly acted film with look alikes extolling Bush's performance titled DC/911 or the reverse on Hallmark Channel recently.

I sure would like to see F..911 if it ever becomes rentable, purchaseable on CD or shown in Thailand.

Living too long (outliving ones capital) is one of the concerns in retirement planning.

The only justification for an annuity is that it pays out regardless on how long you live.

If one does not have an inflation adjusted pension, social security or the like, then you definitely should look to living too long.

I don't agree with the conventional wisdom that you need to have 75% of your pre-retirement income in retirement to be well funded.

My expense in Chiang Mai has settled down to about 30k a month as car and house are paid for and I am able to save half of my pension. There will be a day, perhaps ten years from now when I will not be able to save half my pension, but it is inflation adjusted so only if my home country's inflation rate is less than Thailand will I have a concern.

A partner of mine years ago asked my how I was planning my retirement and I said I would just take all the money I had upon retirement and pro-rate it to my 90th year and spend all the pro-rata each year, keeping in mind that after 85, it was unlikely that I would do much more than try to get from the easy chair to the toilet to the bed and the fridge when I was older than 85.

I could live on 25k a month in CMX if I lived alone however, there would be "entertainment" expense which I don't have now.

I would think returning to a western country to live when money got tight here would not be an option as living expenses there are so much higher, of course there is welfare.

I have no health insurance, too old and too expensive, but I have a bundle in the bank avaiailable to cover by-pass surgery and the like so I don't pay the 12k per month for health insurance. Worse case scernario, if my and my forbearers life long health experience doesn't pan out for me and I become chronically ill and require substantial medical expense above what I have planned, I would probably head home for the free medical care available there for me. Don't expect that, however, and choosing the time of ones death yourself is a blessing I firmly believe in.

howard251: Your profile seems to match mine and I am just three years ahead of you here in CMX so PM me if you want any further info particularily about health insurance, "entertainment" expense or housemate expenses.

Very good point, Lopburi3. I have used an ATM in Thailand for three years without a problem but there was a 40kBaht limit per day. However, I think copying one of those is more difficult as you have to have the card to make the machine work.

My new SCB debit card has no reaised letters and the limit is 200k per day and any "merchant" can use it.

I will go in Monday and open a new account to harbor the majority of my 800k in with a link so I can do ATM transfers from harbor to the debit card account, keeping the max amount available at about a month's expenses.

Will also check with bank to see what protection I do have from unscrupulous merchant who may get a hold on my debit card number and use it without authorization.

Many of us are looking to the same issue, so here are some thoughts that I had that should strengthen your application.

1. Buy your round trip ticket (make sure it is refundable if turned down)

2. Provide a detailed itenerary of your entire stay including arrival and departure flights, times, who picks you up at airport, brings you back, what plans are for each day of your stay (If possible, or make up reasonable expectation)

3. Document your University attendance, grades and any continuing responsibilities with organzations. If your near graduation, that is a big plus, thus document when you will graduate, how close you are, current class ranking, current courses in progress. If your traveling during break in school, make sure you document your next term enrollment and classes enrolled in if possible.

4. If possible, transfer one of your parents properties into your name, so you can show home ownership by deed.

5. Document by pictures your relationship with U.S. friend, if possible.

6. Document relationship with boyfreind, fiance or the like in Thailand motivating you to return.

7. Anything you can do to document, ie pictures, etc. your close relationship with your parents and any care giving you provide them that would cause you to return to Thailand and take care of them vs. abandoning them.

8. Practice responses to questions you know will be comming in interview to improve them and your ability to answer quickly and strongly. At any suggestion from the interviewer that you would stay over in U.S., your response should be why you wouldn't. If you job is good here then the answer might be "Why would I want to stay in U.S. and be waitress in Thai restaurant when I can work in Thailand and make more money and be with my family" or words like that.

Have an answer ready if the suggestiong is made that you might stay over with American friend as lover or fiance. (Possible answer is friend not eleigible lover, you have lover in Thailand or you would get fiance visa if that was the case)

Good luck and please let us know how it goes as many of us are going to deal with that situation and would learn a lot from you.

I would be very interested is this question as well.

Problems I can see with the quality of real estate appraisal in Thailand is the source of sales prices to compare.

Since the sales price of property is most often distorted for purposes of avoiding taxes on the transaction, where can an appraiser go for accurate information on the sales price, the only place one gets data for an comparison appraisal.

"A unit value appraisal" is possible I assume, but the sources of the information would have to be closely examined.

Sure would like to know more about this in Thailand.

I haven't read the entire thread completely, but as to john be good's first posts regarding the divorce in the U.K. and the validity/recognition of a Thai marriage NOT occuring at the Amphur: it is submitted that when one files for a divorce, and the divorce complaint is "answered" or the opposing party "appears", thereby agreeing that "the complaint of divorce" is a proper "action" to settle the dispute, without challenging the "jurisdiction of the court" to hear the matter, then none are concerned as to the validity of the marriage.

In effect, if one doesn't raise the issue of the validity of the marriage in the first papers filed, then there is a tacit admission that a valid marriage occured from which the divorce is sought and the issue of the validity of the marriage is never visited.

Thus you could have a divorce in U.K. or anywhere else, without there being a legal marriage in the first place.

Back to the subject of the thread.

The old adage regarding a lawyer thinking of the divorce during the marriage ceremony, while somewhat insigtful, is inaccurate. A good one is thinking about the divorce before the marriage.

If the pre-nuptial agreement is approached with the intended in a positive light, it goes down fairly easily.

It should be stressed, that the intent of the agreement is to ensure that in the "rare chance" that the agreeing party (usually the wife to be) tires of the husband and "sends him away" that the husband still wants to assure her that he still will love her forever and want to provide for her after divorce through the agreement.

Then include in the agreement everthing she would get anyway, including some alimony. After all, the true objective of a pre-nup is to protect pre-marriage assets. If the pre-nup includes sufficient "consideration" ie. benefit to wife not previously had, the agreement is thereby legally sufficient.

Your all so right!

First Internet Bank was the first time I saw reference to an ATM/CHECK card used to refer to their debit card. I think a poster with account in the Channel Islands may likewise had that reference.

caughtintheact: I really liked your post for its balanced tone and one of the few in this forum which tries to UNDERSTAND immigration and what their problems are. Understanding the opposition, is basic strategy in warfare or sports, etc.

Additionally, we often forget that many immigration officers, being policemen assigned to immigration, come to the job with varing degrees of sophistication and experience. If you can imagine an ordinary policeman in your home country comprehending international financial systems.

Thus the embassy letter, which should represent a review of all your documents, is their basic document and gets you off the hook. Especially if the letter can attest to your atm/visa transfers, for which you have the slips.

Don't provide proof of monthly transfers via ATM or credit card transfers unless ASKED.

I was unable to connect my ATM receipts to my foreign bank account, so if I was going that route, I would try to get a letter from my home bank or the bank attached to the ATM to verify in writing the source of your funds withdrawn.

Your home bank statements can be matched to your ATM withdrawals or credit card withdrawls by their ATM designation and date that would match your slips. But that is backup information to be provided only if asked.

KevinN: Many thanks for your reply. It is now clear to me that you are indeed doing a debit/transfer with your Visa card.

I have said, Bangkok Bank and no doubt, SCB have indicated they can do that with a Visa or Mastercard debit card, but no with my bank issued debit/atm card.

I can guess that there is a Visa and Mastercard telephone number in Thailand that they can "clear" the transaction through, while my Hawaii ATM has telephone clearance problems, ie language and time zone.

Your help has taken me a long way. If you could give me your branch of SCB I will note it for future reference when I get my Visa or Mastercard Debit Card for First Internet Bank.

You are responsible for getting SCB a new customer, as yesterday I transferred all my Bangkok Bank savings account money to SCB and am the proud owner of a SCB ATM/debit card good for 200,000 a day. Bangkok Bank limited me to 40k a day, granted they have another card that goes higher but you have to pay for it.

This whole thread has taken me to the mindset that there is no reason to carry a lot of cash around as the debit card works almost anywhere, including ATM and credit card foolishness is not involved.

Many thanks.

Your application would be stronger if you could do the following (you must decide if this "extra effort" is worth it)

1. Picutures of "family ties"

2. Buy your round trip ticket (May have to pay more to have it refundable if turned down)

3. Have father or mother put their house in your name (have deed to house)

4. Prepare itenerary for every day you will be in U.S. and include your trip deaprture and arrival times, who meets you at airport, etc.

5. Picture of your U.S. friend and you together.

6. Original records from school, report cards, current evidence of enrollment, etc.

7. Proof of envolvement in any ongoing activities and responsibilities that require your return to fulfill.

Good luck. Please post again if you make it or are turned down. Many of us are looking forward to doing this as well and all information is helpful.

Reading the news article with a critical eye, I come away with the distinct impression that the Australian physician quoted is protecting the turf of his organization, other Australian physicians, who evidently are concerned about the drain of surgical business to cheaper venues.

Poor post op care is really the responsibility of the patient. On a vacation and failure to return to the operating surgeon for follow-up because of return to Australia seems highly probable. "Post-op infrection being caused by poor operative technique" is absured on the face.

Concern for the Australian health care system being harmed by paying for 20 cases of post surgical complications is silly, if for the numbers involved, if nothing else.

The recent report in this forum about back surgery in BKK is illustrative how "off the mark" the tone of the article is.

There are so many variables to the question as to make it meaningless, as it should be. For everyone who likes, younger there are ones who like older, etc.

Mental and physical maturity don't go hand in hand and why someone preferes older or younger has many roots. Father complexes, etc. etc. etc.

JimGant: your last post mirrors my conclusion as to the ideal way to handle the retirment financial responsibity criteria set up by immigration EXCEPT for:

Thai immigration likes to see multiple inflow activity to your bank account during the year. And, yes, we know what they're looking for.

The quoted portion doesn't seem in sync with the conclusion that follows. I was unaware that immigraion was interested in MULTIPLE inflows, only multiple outflows reflecting living expenses. Did you mean to say "multiple outfows"?

KeninN: My guess this thread will be terminated as being non-Thailand related once George sees it.

On the other hand, if you were to title the thread as issues underlying the article if analogously attributed to the problem in the south of Thailand between Buddhist and Muslims it might survive scrutiny.

Since I am old, with bad sikin from excessive sun exposure in my early years and a red-head father, I am indeed a "skin freak"

I look to the skin first for the "turn on". My ex-wife had northern European alabastr skin, and luckily my daughter got her skin from her mother.

Thai skin, as ChrisP says, is unmatched in texture and I personall prefer, the light tan (coffee latte) shade. Exotic has nothing to do with my interest in Thais.

A trim but slightly muscular body is my preference. Definitely younger is my presference and a non-aggessive nature is prefered. Most Thais don 't have the rampant age bias found in the west. A 20 to 30 year age difference has always seemed to be "my style". a 20yo and 50yo gap seems to many to be "dirty old man time" but now 40yo and 70yo don't seem to generate that condemnation.

A 40yo Thai, who looks and has a body of a 30 yo is just that more attractive to me as the maturity is there but the age signs are not. Am I lucky to have met the "right one for me", you bet. Did I screen two hundred to find the right one, I did. Being honest with oneself goes a long way to getting what you want and

being happy with it when you find it. I find Japanese far more exotic looking than Thai, likewise Chinese or Thai-chinese. The attitude of the pure Thai is far more attractive to me than those with Chinese influences, so I looked for the pure, country boy, Thai for my area of investigation. Lucky to to find one who is of the light skinned Thai variety.

Generalities are dangerous, so nothing in the foregoing that I have said is inteneded to be exclusive, I am sure there are Chinese, Japanese, Korean or Malay who may be a spitting immage of "my Thai", but the percentage of any of those populations meeting my cirteria is definitely less.