ProThaiExpat

Udon: On second thought, my post containing the advice from ThaiImmigration.com begs the question regarding visa examinations vs. just plain identification.

It would seem any police officer has the right to check IDs. Thus almost any type of ID should suffice, logically, however, who said it is a logical issue. It is arbitrary, depending on the police officer involved.

Offering to go to the police station so the "fine" will be shared with superiors seems to be an excellent negotiating tool.

I have traveled all over the world and always carried my passport. Now that I am at home, for some reason, my mind says leave the passport at home because I might lose it, when I have never done so before.

With all the flap pockets with velcour fasteners or buttons on men's pants, see no risk in carring mine. Had to accompany a friend of mine on a passport replacement once and it is no big deal.

Thus, I have copied every page of my passport and will keep the current extention copied, to keep at home when and if I ever lose the passport which I carry on my person. Just back from Pattaya and had occasion to show it a couple of times, hotel, rent-a-car, airlines, etc. Think nothing of carrying my passport while traveling, a much higher risk activity for loss of passport than travel around home, so why do we worry so much about carrying it at home?

As added protection to the 30 year lease, create a mortgage for the purchase price that is payable in one lump sum upon expiration of the 30 year lease so if an eviction occurs, the amount of the unpaid mortgage (ie. the purchase price) must be paid as part of the court judegement of eviction.

The mortgage is entered on the back of the land document, as is the lease, so the property cannot be sold out from under you without your rights being dealt with.

My lease contains a 5 million baht agreed upon penalty, in addition to the lease and mortgage, in the event my peaceful occupancy is distrubed by the landlord or anyone taking from the landlord.

Keep in mind that the lease payments are taxable, usually up front, so you will be contacted for the tax as soon as you record the lease. My tax man tried to collect two hundred and fifty thousand baht for the two million baht rent at the end of the thirty years (purchase price) from my Thai landlord, but ended up settling for 10k for the 30 year term.

The rent to be paid in mone lump sum at the expiration of the lease is still taxable upon recording so the dillema is a high rent payemnt and mortgage amount to discourage eviction vs. paying tax on the amount.

Jeff1: I sought the help of a Thai lawyer to protect my interests when I hooked up with a Thai and he did the legal work to protect my interests.

For some reason, at the time, I didn't think of the house separately from the land. So my land and house are owned by the Thai.

However, I have a 30 year lease of both the land and the house, and there is a mortgage on the land and the house for its purchase price, with a recitation in the lease that if it is ever broken, there is a 5 million baht penalty payable to the lessee. Also, strong language regarding peaceful habitation and long in advance appointment to inspect the leasehold once a year. Since we are still mutally co-habitating, three years now, it seems an unimportant issue.

My main concern was after my love dies, what about greedy relatives trying to evict me or somehow winning a case in court against a farang.

My Thai wrote a will, leaving the house and property to me, there are some who say property can't be willed to a farang but the house can and the ampur authored the will and it is just another document to protect me when my Thai is gone if ever.

I have heard of another 30 years lease upon expiration of the current 30 years by an agreement recited in the first document, however, since I will be in my late nineties when the first term is up, I had little concern for that additional term.

Most farang that I know have leased their land and most own their houses.

Now that we are past the civilty issue, perhaps we could discuss what "dirty old man" means?

I have heard it used by young people toward those just ten years or even less as a derogatory remark.

Perhaps it is used by people to just put others down and choose the age issue in societies where anything old is undesireable?

Being older than most in society, I have often wondered what would make me a dirty old man. To me, it means an older person who makes uninvited advances toward a younger person, regardless of the actual age of the one making the advance.

Most civilized older men I know, wait until the younger person makes the advance to avoid the categorization. After all, "dirty" comes from the christian/judean concept that anything sexual is "dirty".

Perhaps those who think in terms of "dirty old men" could contribute to what they mean by the term, when they use it and why?

As a post script to my prior post, I found the following on ThaiImmigration.com from a frebruary post:

"A very good posting. Thanks a lot .

I’ll try to answer your question as how it is according to the Law, but this is, I’m afraid, not always how things are performed in practice, so don’t hang me if you experience different.

1. It is mentioned somewhere that all foreigners (not only tourists) have to carry their passport with them all the time during their stay in the Kingdom. It has further today been confirmed to me by both Police and Immigration.

It's not a special "Thai Rule" though. I have have worked and lived in several countries around Asia, and in all those countries they had exactly same rule. Also in Europe (EU) that's a must.

2. The reason why we have to do it is simple: All Thai citizens got an ID card, which they have to carry with them all the time. We do not have such ID card, so instead we must carry our passport as identification.

3. - Immigration Police in Thailand is divided into 4 divisions, each responsible for their special area. Only one special task force under Immigration Division 3 are allowed to stop foreigners and check their passports and/or visas:

“The Investigation and interrogation group is a subdivision level unit under Division 3 which report direct to the Commissioner and is responsible for the inspection of illegal aliens, investigation and suppression of violators against the Immigration or Anti-White Slavery Laws and other criminal offences which lead to illegal immigration”. (Source: http://www.imm3.police.go.th/eng/index.html).

- Immigration Officers working at the Immigration Offices has no authority to go out and check foreigners’ passports/visas, not even if they have knowledge about irregularities. They must report it to Division 3, who then sends staff to investigate it.

- The ordinary Police, including Traffic Police, are authorized to ask you to identify your self. But they have no authority what so ever when it comes to checking your visa.

- The Tourist Police is a special task force established to service and help tourists. Many think their job is to keep an eye on tourists, but that is completely wrong. They have no authority to stop tourists just to ask for their ID or check their visa.

4. To your last question, if photocopies will do, I can only answer that it’s not legally accepted as genuine identification, so it would be up to the officer who wants to check you whether he will accept it or not.

I do hope this answers your questions. Otherwise please let us know."

The advice I will follow is contained in this thread, "Carry your passport, keep a copy of it at home for use in the rare event you need to replace your passport"

A twenty year old plane with a new paint job and a new interior refit looks new upon superficial inspection.

Most low price airlies are able to offer their bargain rates because their equipment costs are lower, as they rent used aircraft.

Notwithstanding the foregoing, a well maintained aircraft is just that and is no more unsafe than a new one, providing the manufacturers instructions for replacement of parts at the end of their useful life are followed.

Dr. Pat certainly doesn't need me to defend him regarding his posts.

This IS NOT a defense of Dr. Pat:

Wimpy and those who assume that Consular Postings abroad are controlling on immigration must keep in mind that Counsular Offices are in a different ministry than immigration and often the two don't agree.

Likewise, I was told by the Australian Counsel that each General Counsel can interpret and enforce any immigration regulation as he sees fit. Thus the wide variety of visa handlings among different Counsular offices.

I was under the impression that HIV was a disease that prohibited entry into Thailand and a deportable defense based on the answer given by ThaiImmigration.com to a question about an hiv positive man from Denmark.

I posted a question to the effect that if one was disease free upon entereing Thailand and never left, was these diseases still deportables if contracted in Thailand. The answer was "of course".

Then wimpy posted his ministerial regulations from his foreign consular web pages in that thread and there has been no reply from ThaiImmigration.com Admin even though there has been plenty of time for a response.

In the interim, Div 3 Bangkok commandant has been quoted as saying that ThaiImmigration.com has been posting erroneous information and that website is not the official one.

I have posted a request for clarification of an inconsistency in what is stated in Div 3's website and the actual practice in Bangkok immigration and no response has been obtained. A lack of a response is a typical way of Thais not responding when then don't have an answer. Mai pen rai.

There is also official recognition that there are differences in interpretations of the regulations between the various immigration offices.

Thus I think it is interesting but no way conclusive as to immigration's policy regarding HIV by quoting foreign based counsular webpage recitations of ministerial regulations.

Just as easily as not, an HIV positive traveler may very well be excluded from entry or deported by an immigration officer thinking as the ThaiImmigration.com officer posted regarding its excludability.

I am no expert on the Thai language and its preciseness, so I cannot say if it can be precisely translated into English, but from the vague nature of many regulations I have seen translated, I can only conclude a great deal of ambiguity does exist in the Thai regulations or their translation, much to most farang's dismay.

All we can hope for is learning from the various posts from farang and Thai officials and to act to our best judgement, aware that the gamut of interpretations may be encountered, much to our unpreventable detriment.

P1P: Thanks for your post. I am looking for a grinder for my home. I am tired of paying as much as 40 or 50 baht more for lean ground meat over the unground version.

Ajarn: Many thanks for the leads. You know where I will be driving tomorrow and will report back in when I find an electric one for my kitchen.

Deadcert: The post was properly deleted in my view.

Making personal attacks and disparaging other members in this forum is not only rude but against the rules.

Calling anyone a derogatory name is attacking them personally and is uncalled for. It only leads to counter attacks and denegration of the thread.

Thanks lopbuiri 3 and others. My large tank smells fine, suspect my Thai doesn't truly understand disposer so will "service" it daily with a clear run.

In our development only toilets go into the septic tank, all other "gray" water goes into a sewer line in the street, including kitchen sink water. Developer said "no problem" with ground up sink refuse in the communal drain system!

I was personally shocked to see one of the showers draining into the open drainage cement ditch that borders my property on two sides that carries off the ground water caused by rains. This drainage ditch system, which I have covered with cement covers, like the street ones, likewise empties into the street drainage system. TIT

Stumonster: Thanks for the laugh. Having travelled alot on U.S. Airlines with their sixty year old stews, I rely not a all on cabin attendants in an emergency.

A committed exit aisle habitue, I will be the first out of the exit door when such a departure is called for in an emergency and a safe landing from that eixt appears possible.

Since NokAir is owned by Thai Airlines, I am relying on their supervision of the start up and since their accident rate is nil, no more risky than reworked used airplanes on Air Asia or Phuket Air.

Most wester societies, and I am sure Thailand, try to determine the degree of force being produced by the aggressor and then allow an equal but not greater force in defense.

It is a balancing act that defies rational thought, even after the fact.

Example, you fire a home protection weapon at an intruder in your home at night.

If the intruder is found to be unarmed, your up for manslaughter, providing you can prove that he was threatening your life. Position of the body, etc. etc. etc. If you shoot him in the back, because he turned around as you fired, your up for 2nd degree murder.

A street scene doesn't have the sanctitiy of you home, so much more diffuclt to defend yourself and still come out of it wihout jeopardy, if the police come to the scene and you are still there.

Determining the level of force being used against you and then responding with equal force, but not greater force, when under attack in an alley, is a mineboggling enterprise.

Solution, don't go into dark alleys.

While immigration does want to know what income your have to support yourself, the easiest way to get financial approval is to have the 800k in a Thai bank and the income, but in that scenario, proof of the income is not required.

If you try to get an "early" retirment visa, don't count on the income as qualifying as it is difficult to get approval of income for anyone, even those who qualify in all other respects.

More of the same, ie. each "official" does it his own way. For those not in full compliance, 500baht is a wonderful escape. Laminated copies might work with some, not others, we all pretty much know this, just hate the inconsistency.

Short of carrying your passport with you at all times, there is always a risk of something happening to you from paying your way out to jail.

T I T.

Non-related example, Chiang Mai immigration, one year extention this morning.

Got photocopies of passport from copy girl, she should know what to copy, right?, she does it all the time.

First immigration officer made a neat list of additional pages of passport required so back to copy girl.

Final review from police Captain and another page required to be copied. Back to copy girl with a loud "Aiee" which brought a laugh at least. Incidently, the last photocopy was of a visa stamp three years old and marked "used".

Whole process only took 45 minutes, a new record for a visit to immigration for a one year extention for me. Mai pen rai.

Would very much appreciate someone directing me to a store that they know, for sure, has meat grinders for sale.

Would prefer an electric one, if available.

Please also give directions as I am not all that familiar with Chiang Mai.

Many thanks for your help.

Hey Pepe: What hasn't been mentioned is that second hand cars really hold their resale value due to the quality of the originals and the excellenct and inexpensive maintenance and repair costs here.

Ten year old cars sell easily for half of their original value.

Kitchen sink with garbage disposer has the u-bend but when I turn on the water at the sink, I often get un unpleasant smell.

Could it be the water as it comes from the project government water supply or is it comming from the stainless steel very large water tank that accumulates my water prior to it being pumped into the house.

With only two of us, could the water tank be too large for us and the accumulated water not used frequently enough that it gets dank, stank, or whatever that word is?

Being a "mature" farang, and following Thai culture, I have wai-ed only once, to the older mother of "my thai".

However, I never fail to acknowledge a wai with a nod of the head and a smile.

Wai experts, is this an appropriate response to a wai received by a farang of advanced years?

ChiangMaiThai: My experience exactly when it came to ice making machines, but lo and behold, last week I spotted one at PowerBuy, alerted by an ad in a Thai newspaper broght to my attention by Thai wife of across the street farang.

Now ice in abundance, making my life in Thailand all the more pleasureable.

I really think there are a lot of Thai entreprenuers that are looking for opportunities to copy western products and introduce them in Thailand, as Thais seem to welcome the opportunity to live their life more comfortably by untilizing technological advances, if they can afford to.

There is a movie showing on the Hallmark Channel this week, which could be instructive to the "traditional value" anal retentive, judgemental and age biased types" posting in this thread, if they could open their closed minds for long enough to see the film.

It is titled "Love Came on Softly".

It is a story about a beautiful young woman who traveled "out west" with her young, handsome and vigorous husband. He was killed on their first day after arriving at their "dream land", when he fell off his horse and hit his head.

She was in intense grief to the point that she didn't even want to attend the funeral arranged by nearby settlers.

As she was bent over her dead husbands grave in the rain, an older, widower approached her and proposed that since she had no means to get through the winter on her own and wagon trains were not due to go back east until spring, she should marry him and help him raise his daughter until her departure back east in the spring.

She did so for expediency reasons and the majority of the story is about how "Love Came on Softly" to both of them. He was very religious, incidently.

The Hallmark Channel is known for its "traditional values" content and, in fact, one of the produceres of the film in the billing was a "Value Television" organization.

I have seen so many unhappy people in my many days on this earth living a life dictated by "what other people think", that my hope is that anyone reading posts with such "age bias" as their sole content will ignore them and live their lives as their own hearts dictates.

No forms are required if not married in such a situation.

Does marriage actually convey some rights to land that non-marriage doesn't?

Ie. If a farang husband gives the money to the wife and doesn't sign the documents Dr. Pat referes, does this give him some rights over the land he doesn't own?

I have tried the "dry" mode on my Mitsubishi top of the line A/C and all it does is lower the desired teperature by two degrees and then turns itself off until the temperature rises to the desired temperature and then goes on again.

I get headaches from the air being two dry from A?C sometimes.

YES, there are de-humidifies available at PowerBuy. I stumbled onto one, after looking for a year for one, I thought everywhere, as it was a promotional gift if you bought a frig.

I don't know if you can buy one without the frig, but check it out and let us know.

PowerBuy is the sub-leased concession that sells applicances on the top floor of Central and Robinsons in Chiang Mai, don't know if such is the case in BKK or elsewhere.

Whiteshadow: Aids is not singled out by immigration for deportation or denial of admission.

It is only one of most communicable diseases that prevent admisson or permit deportation by the immigration regulations.

SARS, thyphoid, etc. are some of the others.

One could say that HIV is not a communicable disease if one alwasy uses a condom, but then Sars wouldn't be either if the bearer wore a gas mask.

What bothers me more is the situation where one enters the country without the communicable disease and during a long stay, contracts one of the banned communicable disease without ever leaving Thailand and then is deported.

In addition to the lease, I had my lawyer incorporate a mortgage for the value of the house and a penalty clause for double that amount if the lease was in anyway disturbed.

Thus relatives would have second thoughts, if g/f dies, in trying to void the lease.

It cost me double however, as there is a land office fee for the recording of the extra mortgage document equal to the recording of the lease. Thus you are torn between understating the value of the property leased vs. making it costly to break the lease.

Also, there is a tax on the rental income stated in the lease.

Dr. Pat: Are you makig any distiction between "0"s issued outside of Thailand or at the airport from "0"s issued within Thailand?

See my post on my "O" without the "A" issued by the main immigration office when I changed my status from touritst to non-imm 0 with one year retirment extention.

Indo-Siam: And all along I thought the "O-A" stood for "Overtly Advanced".