gabruce

THAT is Thailand's pick for the Miss Universe contest???

Sorry, but I could walk through any of the major malls in Chiang Mai and find 20 girls in each, in half an hour's time, that would put her to shame. As for her "political comments"? Memorized well from the Yellow We're-So-Superior-Elite Handbook.

She, like most Yellow Elitists, think they have a monopoly on "loving the King". My wife is a staunch Red Shirt, and not a picture of Dr. T around. She doesn't like him. But has 3 large pictures of the King in the house, and thinks he's the greatest man in Thailand.

and that right there is the problem with labelling any group as just one thing. The problem that the red shirts have is that their group encompasses anti-monarchists, separatists, democracy haters, democracy supporters, confused democracy supporters, Thaksin lovers, people out to grab power, fanatics, bullies, thugs, monarchists, good people, bad people, drug dealers, regular folks, farmers, rich people, poor people.

So it's easy to find examples to label the group with, and it's also easy to see that it's not true for all.

The real question is what are the real core values of the group. Those are NOT the values espoused in their mission statement, they are the values they show day in and day out, both in what they do and in what they don't do. What do they condemn and what don't they condemn. What do they cheer and what do they boo.

Unfortunately for the Red Shirt movement, their friends the PTP and the UDD leadership don't live the values of their mission statement, and that leads to situations like this.

Yet another delaying, hold onto power tactic from the think tank of the boss in the desert.

Wont happen Jatuporn, go and talk to the senate like they have been asking you to do.

He might well do if the senate that you are referring to was the whole senate, 150 members, not just the 60-80 (nobody has come up with a definitive number) that are meeting behind closed doors, in an unofficial meeting held by a deputy speaker who has not been given royal assent as Senate Speaker.

In the meantime, he, like most politically aware people in Thailand, would do well to take Surachais declaration of non partisanship with a huge pinch of salt.

Perhaps true, however isn't also true that all 150 members should be at the meetings. Some are probably lazy, maybe some are intimidated by the threats, and some seem to be under orders to NOT participate and so boycott/don't attend.

It's an unofficial meeting held by a deputy speaker who has not been given royal assent as Senate Speaker. Why would Senators who do not agree with surachais promises of illegally appointing an interim PM give support to him by attending his unofficial meetings? (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/726768-step-down-for-sake-of-the-country-senators-urge-govt/#entry7835007)

Yes. It's much better to hear second hand from the media rather than be there in person. I still maintain that concientious senators that would think and vote for themselves and their country would be there to participate and hear first hand what is going on. You might also note that at some point he undoubtedly will be given royal assent as Senate Speaker, so participating in open meetings of the Senate, whether official or informal would seem to be the smart thing to do. Disagree with conclusions, arguments, actions. Then say so publicly.

join redshirt rally in Bangkok to escalate the protest.

Escalate according to UDD: create chaos, behave violent, and set a shopping mall ablaze.

It is a bit of a concern. Chiang Mai has several large shopping centres now. Perhaps too many for the population to support.

Whether that is incentive to burn one of the Chiang Mai ones down or incentive to burn Bangkok to the ground so more people will move here and go shopping is more than I know.

Look at the eyes,like a reptile.

No-one laughed louder than me at David Icke, when he said the world's ruling classes were comprised of "shape-shifting reptilia". But looking at Surapong, he may well have been correct after all!

And the intellectual debate from the PDRC fanclub hits yet another new low. Seems every final push lowers the bar.

The Courts decisions were a real travesy and were widely reported and commented on around the globe. Pretty much every report managed to stay above the playground level of peoples appearance. Every where apart from on here it seams. Am sure if we were to direct personal insults at you in this manner that you would be running and squealing for the mods to come to your aid.

The judges will know along with anybody else that if Suthep loses his coup, they could well be toast after this!! Lets hope so.

Agreed. It's not polite or productive to talk about how someone looks. I just remind myself if looks were important I wouldn't have a girl friend. So leave poor Surapong alone. Feel free to criticize his morals, ethics, intellect, decisions, actions, job performance etc.

The CC decision appeared to be sound to me.

the ec could end up in prison..what a great way to get people on board..hardly the hub of diplomacy ..

remember that Surapong was (and is still insisting that he still is) head of the diplomats. He showed quite conclusively that he had never heard the word before, let alone understand it and be able to practice it. So it's silly to expect the PTP to be diplomatic.

"Find them then hand them the resignation letters to be signed and bring them back so that they won’t be able to obstruct our attempt to form a new government"

So He is sending out his thugs to kidnap ministers and then force them to sign pre written resignation letters. What if they don't sign will they be tortured until the do.

This evil piece of excrement in Suthep has to be stopped now. Nothing but pure evil running through his veins and he will definitely take his rightful seat beside the devil.

I'm certainly glad that you aren't a judge.

I think in the wild west you might have been turned a hanging judge who believes that where there is smoke there is fire (ie if someone accuses you of something, you must be guilty).

PS. Torture will probably consist of forcing them to eat som tum and remember that they should be there to serve the country and it's people. They will talk over and over again until the minister is so desparate to leave politics for ever that they will sign.

finally after 6 months the police will start doing their job, I dont believe it. They will probably still let the reds toss grenades and shoot at the protesters though after all, they dont really want to stop their team from doing all the damage

Oh, come on. Are you that new here? Were you here in 2008? There's a reason the police have been keeping their heads down. The PDRC are the visible, public relations part, for showing the international TV networks. Behind them, invisible to the foreign reporters, is the Army. Have you noticed how many of the "guards" are "off-duty" service members? Special Forces, SEAL, etc. The end game will depend on maneuvering going on inside the Army's top ranks and among the elite groups struggling to be in an advantageous position when something happens.

Thanks for the info. I haven't been to Bangkok to visit the protest sites and check out the guards.

Are these "off-duty" service members from specific units or all over the armed forces? Have you noticed a specific pattern, ie specific commanders/units that are providing the men or is it an individual choice to do something?

Did you think to make a detailed list with their ID's? I think the DSI should be prosecuting them. It seems likely that soldiers shouldn't be moonlighting while on active-duty. At the very least, have the media publish the list of names and id's to shame them publicly.

What percentage of guards did you discover are soldiers? Are you basing this on a statistical sample or did you check them all?

"In a forum on solutions for the crisis held at Thammasat University's Rangsit Campus yesterday, Worajet Pakeerat said Article 195 of the charter states that only a Cabinet minister has the authority to submit a request for a Royal Decree for a new poll, and not the Election Commission".

A bit difficult actually as there are no cabinet ministers or a PM for that matter!!!

and that's another example of why Thailand is in uncharted waters. The constitution didn't anticipate having to call another election after a failed election. That's also where the Constitutional Court comes in. Their job is to interpret the Constitution and rule on a way out. They can be wrong too. So more or less they will have to say who should submit the request for a Royal Decree for a new poll. What complicates the current situation as well is that the previous election failed because of the government, so giving the caretaker government the power to submit the decree leaves the next election open to the same stupidity. There are also fears, unfounded I believe, that if the EC is supposed to submit the request, that they won't and Thailand will be stuck with the current caretaker government forever, or at least until the caretaker cabinet dies of old age or resigns or the country falls completely apart. Just saying makes it sound like a silly fear.

Thos posters advocating the election of senators should pause to think after it was revealed some flew to meet Thaksin in Singapore.

Senators are supposed to be neutral, a check and balance on governmental power.

So what do some do? Fly to seek advice from their master.

Disgusting.

and what do those that have been "appointed" by the Yellows/Dems and Ammart do?

It's not a schoolyard fight. He did so I did it too!

It's not relevant what other elected and/or appointed senators do.

I think it's just completely wrong (and possibly illegal) for those Senators to have flown to Singapore to meet with the big boss. It's definitely not how they are supposed to act or think.

How would American's reacted if a bunch of Senators had flown to Pakistan and met with Osama Bin Laden (before the USA assassinated him)?

I know, it was just a private meeting and nothing to do with politics or Thailand.

It is all;

"Govt owes"

"Govt denies"

"Govt denounces"

Never'

"Govt successfully implemented"

"Govt alleviated"

"Govt took the criticism on board"

"Govt share the blame"

One can be assured that even though these farmers will be paid compensation and be paid for their rice within weeks if they step aside to make way for an interim govt that will have full govt powers the PTP will not. They say they care, but their actions state otherwise.

I don't agree. Nobody wants to pay the farmers.

They all say they do, but nobody does -- and actions speak louder than words.

I guess we will have to wait and see what the Democrats do when they are elected.

I think that they will complain that they shouldn't have to pay, that the prior government should have handled their bills instead of leaving it for the next government to handle. They will probably also remark, perhaps quietly, that they would never be as rapacious, stupid, and incompetent as the PTP. Then they will pay the farmers post-haste.

Here's hoping Chalerm doesn't try to become a Democrat!

Who is "us" Pipkins?

I fail to remember anyone shot for protesting against the junta after the last coup, you wouldn't be lying about that, would you?

As it is logic night.

Me and the wife. She is not worried about a few PDRC thugs being targetted whilst trying to deny her and our children the right to vote.

Soo logically which is what we were talking about that gives me the right to say us. Or can you prove with facts and witnesses that my wife IS weeping about the PDRD who were injured or shot?

Thought not.

Wish some of the decent posters who used to support the Dems would come back and raise the bar on your side of the debate some hope though innnit!!

You and your wife both should be shedding tears over the deaths and injuries suffered by the protestors and bystanders.

You are excused if you don't actually cry, and you should at least be sad about it.

For the record, no tears here, and I do feel sad about the deaths and injuries, and in weaker moments anger against the killers.

What if a poll nation wide was taken, and the question was written is such a way as to not be bias to either side, and let the people decide if they wanted an election before or after reforms were made. Any reforms would have to be approved by the citizens of Thailand.

I think a referendum, or multiple referendums is a good idea (warning I am NOT a political expert).

Problems:

1) wording of the referendum

2) open, free, safe referendum polling (could that actually happen in Thailand now)

3) a referendum on the right things, whatever they might be.

4) Expense?

The scary part of referendums in my view is that it takes power out of the hands of the political elite who get to set the agenda for what they do. Of course who controls what a referendum is about here.

the blame in the PTP and Yingluck governments collapse. It lies fairly and squarely with Thaksin himself. It was his greed, arrogance and contempt for law and his opponents that led to the rice scams, amnesty fiascos etc. I would like to hear this said, some honesty pls.

The only HONESTY here is that Thaksin has no more contempt for law, no more greed and no more arrogance than any of the cronies now jousting to abolish Thai democracy and put themselves into power via a putsch/coup.

The only HONESTY is that Thanksin fell foul of Thai cronyism by relying on people power as a way to run the country. That scared the bejesus out of the traditional elite and neo-colonialist farangs who hate to see the Thai people rise up from their historically subjugated position.

The only HONESTY is that the obsessive farangs who keep posting hate against the current government here on ThaiVisa do so mainly because of government measures such as the "rice scheme" and the "Health care scheme" etc. ie. both measures that help ordinary Thais and risk leading to higher taxation for the rich. You wrap your opposition in terms such as "rice scheme" to make it seem as if this is somehow "corrupt" when in actual fact it is exactly the same as what democratic governments in the West did in the 19th century to hep their own people. But there is a strong contingent of people here on Thaivisa who seem to hate democratic progressivism in any kind of shape or form - whether it be Western democracy or Thai democracy. These posters prefer fascism pure and simple.

Oh. You are so wrong I am unable to laugh. Please take a rational look at your emotional outburst and consider some honesty yourself.

It's possible that some red and yellow posters prefer fascism. I think it's more likely not true.

While the rice scam did help some farmers in the short term, you must see that it's been an absolute disaster for thailand and not supportable in a short or long term. It also seems to have transferred a few hundred billion baht into pockets that have no right to the money. Oh yes, and the rice scam is just plain stupid.

Anyway, just because I disagree with you and you disagree with me over economic policies doesn't mean you need to fill yourself up with hate.

In person, I'm sure you are a nice person. It's easy to get carried away posting and get emotional and type things you wouldn't normally say.

I look forward to the strictly non-partisan Prayuth making his reasoned reply.

Hopefully he will deny it and more importantly deny it honestly.

If there is to be a Stand In Acting Caretaker Prime Minister (deep breath....) he should not come from either the army or the police, neither of which is non partisan.

brilliant! "Stand In Acting Caretaker Prime Minister"

Thank you!

Yet another delaying, hold onto power tactic from the think tank of the boss in the desert.

Wont happen Jatuporn, go and talk to the senate like they have been asking you to do.

He might well do if the senate that you are referring to was the whole senate, 150 members, not just the 60-80 (nobody has come up with a definitive number) that are meeting behind closed doors, in an unofficial meeting held by a deputy speaker who has not been given royal assent as Senate Speaker.

In the meantime, he, like most politically aware people in Thailand, would do well to take Surachais declaration of non partisanship with a huge pinch of salt.

Perhaps true, however isn't also true that all 150 members should be at the meetings. Some are probably lazy, maybe some are intimidated by the threats, and some seem to be under orders to NOT participate and so boycott/don't attend.

Jutaporn is perfectly correct. The EC are quite obviously in the pocket of Suthep and the Dems and should be sacked. They are lazy and dishonest and manipulators of democracy, the right of the people to vote for who they want. Anyone who does not see this has got to be brain dead or brain washed.

or perhaps just see more clearly than you do. So many options.

The constitution needs to be amended the right way and all senators and governors must be elected not having someone pick who going to be your voice about matters of state. Free and fair elections need to be held now and reform of people rights to vote for their choice to represent them not some elite academic who doesn't not represent your feeling.

I think that it would be a very bad idea to have a fully elected senate. Then Thailand might end up as the same disaster as the USA is. Much better to follow the Canadian model of a fully appointed Senate. It's a much more stable and productive system!

Elected governors is a good idea, allow more decentralized representation. Same for the other reform suggestion from the PDRC of having provincial police report to the governors instead of the central government in Bangkok.

You seem to balanced views. You are wrong with supporting the PTP idea for a fully elected senate and you are right to support the PDRC in electing governors. Throw in decentralizing the police force and enforcing election regulations strictly, and Thailand would be making the right first steps in the right direction. (in my opinion of course).

It's a shame to see this group of senators playing games and politics. Their stated aims seem to the same as the acting Speaker and the informal meetings. Perhaps the difference is that the acting Speaker doesn't Skype with Thaksin? There is also the minor (major!) detail that the PTP and UDD refuse to meet with the Senate.

It would seem that perhaps they are just pouting because one of them didn't win the election for Senate Speaker.

PS. I see elsewhere that the Senate has submitted the Speaker and Deputy Speaker for royal assent (or whatever it's called). It will be interesting to see if the government will sit on that request. Can the caretaker government pass it on when the status of the acting caretaker pm is in question? If they sit on it, isn't it tantamount to saying he is not a legitimate caretaker pm? What a mess!

A meaningless survey designed to keep a meaningful problem in the spotlight. While politicians scurry around worrying about their own futures, those who elected them seem once again to have been forgotten.

Good job then. It's very important to keep the rice farmers and their plight in the forefront as much as possible.

It's a shame that the government did this to the country and to the farmers.

another really bright red shirt..seriously what did he expect...

I guess he expected a right to voice his opinion. But clearly, this is a right only enjoyed by the PDRC. It would be nice to see Sutheps supporters on TV condemn the violence instead of justifying it . . . "oh but the red supporters on TV dont condemn violence commited by red shirts" . I can already hear you guys saying it . . . a sad reflection on the brainwashed

Of course the violence is unjustified. At the same time it's obvious that the protestors are on edge with the constant bombings and shooting. And THAT IS NO EXCUSE TO BEAT SOMEONE UP THAT IS INSULTING YOU!

It was also a stupid thing to do and the red shirt needs to think about that as well. No different than if I walked you to some american and shoved him. No excuse for him to beat me up, and not unexpected.

Nice of them to pay for their mistake.

Sick, really sick to continue to imply that the anti-government protesters are doing these cowardly night attacks, and to themselves.

Their mistake is taking a moral stand for their country and what they believe in. Braver than I would be.

It's one approach. When you don't want to deal with your real problems, make sure you stay busy. Not exactly what you want in the leader of a country (even one that may or may not be an acting caretaker pm), and yet he's human.

Doesn't anyone have something to say in support of this guy? PTP supporters, please work a bit harder.

Suthep's tactics finally working

What tactics? I believe the army chief was referring to yesterday's bombing of PDRC supporters (while they were sleeping).

Bombing and shooting! The shooting was the more dangerous of the two - two dead, 27 injured if I remember correctly.

Can'tSpell # 20

Red shirt caused 27 deaths Anti Government caused 0

Who are the real murderers and criminals and enemies of democracy?- obvious to everyone!!!

Except red shirt apologisers on TV!!

Red Shirt supporter post in the style of Dr. Jekyll whilst actually supporting their beloved Shinwatra and the Red Shirts Mr. Hydes. Said posters suffer from Dissociative identity disorder.

DID is one of the most controversial psychiatric disorders with no clear consensus regarding its diagnosis or treatment.

Research on effectiveness of treatment has been concerned primarily with clinical approaches and case studies. Dissociative symptoms range from common lapses in attention, becoming distracted by something else, and daydreaming, to pathological dissociative disorders.

No systematic, empirically-supported definition of "dissociation" exists.

What's wrong with you? Just don't like "can't spell"? Trying to be funny and ridicule the idea that the red shirts are doing fine and the protestors are getting killed and wounded? Perhaps it's just too subtle for me.