Tejas

I never had much use for salsa. I just ate it because it was free while I was waiting for the guacamole.

Quacamole........yuum......but what is it with Thai quacamoles?

I was just thinking about cultural differences with regard to food........a Mexican chef once told me that in Mexico people often will eat refried beans last......in other words, they are served several things and finally the refried beans arrive.

I wonder is this is true.

That would be odd from a person from Texas who wants his refried beans served with his Mexican rice, and taco, and relleno, and fajitas, and tamales......and soft corn tortillas, and crispy corn tortillas with picante hot sauce and Mexican food..........then, the main dish comes

As far as restaurants in Thailand go, Tacos and Salsa makes some great salsas: red, orange, and green, all served with crispy corn chips (and the owner is from Mexico).

pros:

1. no income tax

2. no income tax

3. no income tax

cons:

1. too many whining farangs who should return to their home country if they don't like it here

2. too many whining farangs who should return to their home country if they don't like it here

3. too many whining farangs who should return to their home country if they don't like it here

PROS:

1) the pros........the real ones

2) good health care if you need it (in Bangkok, mainly)

3) relatively inexpensive (but getting more expensive each day)

CONS:

1) too many farangs who are stuck here (and actually dislike it here but say they don't as a psychological defense mechanism) complaining about farangs that might have something negative to say about Thailand

2) extreme heat and getting hotter each year

3) completely insane visa/business rules (coupled with rising xenophobia)

Rude or lacking in common sense............I think it is actually a lack of morals that inform people how to behave in a "civilized" manner.

Beneath the plastered on grin is a "smiling villain." Watch your back here.

Common sense can be a good and bad thing depending on what is "common."

Certainly Thais are more culturally enslaved that others.......very little creativity........almost no ability to think out of the box.

They tend to do the same thing over and over and over again........getting a negative result.........and then doing the same thing again over and over and over again.

In psychology that is sometimes the definition of insanity.......doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

Sorry.......getting off topic.

Just heard there is a place in Pattaya called, I think, MR. MOO. Apparently the owners makes Jimmie Dean like sausage.

What a GREAT POST! That is what we are looking for. Many of your statements are included below:

Panama: Panama sensed an opportunity and developed a retiree incentive program that International Living calls the world's best. One retirement opt is based on showing a pension (or social security) of only 500 USD plus 100 USD per dependent (somebody check for accuracy). Retirees get discounts on travel, entertainment, shopping, services. But like Costa Rica so many have moved in that the country is having growing pains. Like Thailand most of the country is very hot and humid. The highland town of Boquette has a very nice climate and has been heavily promoted by International Living. And it's First World prices reflect that.

Argentina: Argentina became the single best bargain in Latin America, possibly the world, after their monetary crisis of 2002. Literally overnight after their peso was devalued costs were 75% less in American Dollars. Unfortunately while the exchange rate has hovered around 3.8 Pesos to the Dollar rampant inflation has brought costs back up close to where they were pre-crisis. However outside of Buenos Aires there are many choices with a good quality of life that are reasonably priced. And as one of the world's largest countries there's climate and scenery that suits about anyone. They have some nice beach towns but winter weather on the coast is pretty raw. Some cities popular with expats are Mendoza, Bariloche, Salta, and Cordoba. But Buenos Aires is the big draw for foreigners, world class city if you are an urbanite; great beef.

Costa Rica: sort of the Thailand of Latin America. It was the top expat location but so many foreigners moved in that the government ended most of the great retiree incentives it offered. Crime and costs have soared. Still, many expats there but also many moved out, especially to Panama; Pensionado required income USD 1000/mo, and not so good - rentista USD 2500/mo--must show money was converted to colons; getting expensive; housing costs have doubled in top areas; now required to join country social security; armed robbery and carjacking now a daily event; Costa Rica is nice but the benefits are going down at a rapid rate

Mexico: gorgeous coastline overlooking Pacific; great food; one poster added the following: Favorite place is San Cristobal de las Casas, Chiapas, Mexico. Go to Google Images to see pictures. City is about 140,000, has multiplex playing American movies in English, best English language bookstore in Mexico, Walmart and Sam's club are opening stores there, has beautiful pedestrian only streets in the center, can be comfortable there on $700 a month, live very well on $1200. Unlike northern Mexico these days, San Cristobal is safe, with much to see and do. Single biggest drawback is wet season with alot of rain. But at 7000' overall it's mild most of the time, but nights can get chilly.

Colombia: gone a long way towards fixing it's problems. Terrorist groups have been marginalized to remote areas and drug cartels are no longer threatening stability. Bogota's north side looks like a prosperous American city. Security is everywhere, people go out there. The city that's attracting alot of expats is Medellin. It has a year'round spring like climate and is very clean.

Chile: most expensive country in Latin America as well as it's most prosperous with excellent infrastructure; stunning views of the ocean and mountains; can get very cold is the south; lots of Europeans have already retired there in so-called "little Switzerland" areas

Ecuador: good retirement visa system; one city in particular, Cuenca, that is very beautiful, mild but cool climate, all the amenities; does have crime issues. Somebody mentioned Esmeraldes which is the most crime ridden area of the country. Cuenca in general is safe, using common sense.

Belize: most expensive country in Central America and yet has minimal infrastructure. It's real draw is beach living and it's islands. However crime, especially in Belize City, is very high; great lobsters; scuba diving

Cambodia: massive annual GNP growth.......looks like Thailand; friendly people; English spoken widely; more expensive than Thailand but some say less expensive than Thailand; don't want to get sick there but close to Thailand so if it is not an emergency situation you can go to Thailand for medical care; infrastructure improving but long way to go)

Philippines: safe and unsafe areas; beautiful beaches; storm problem; most people speak English; easy visa system; some possible retirement destinations are Boracay, Dumaguete, Panglao Island, Puerto Galera (avoid Manilla)

Malaysia: heard good around Panang........logical retirement visa option (cost of it?)

Vietnam: long coastline; storm prone; developing rapidly; health care? cost of retirement visa?

Indonesia: visa system is not that easy; Bali expensive; other areas much less expensive; earthquake problem

Please add your first hand observations to the list above.........thanks.

an interesting article, salsas are very different in the states, Mexico taquito shops have at least 4 to 6 different type of salsas, mostly very spicy.

Sorry but to me, Taco Bell never cut it !

Cheers:

Everything evolves.......including food. I wonder if the current generations of real Mexicans would even eat what their ancestors ate 400 years ago.

And then transport the food concept across the border, and you get something else.......similar to what happened to Chinese food when it reached the USA.

No matter.......it is delicious to some people and horrible to others......that is the way it goes (I think).

By the way......and we might get the salsa police started again........in northern Texas we (non-Mexicans) virtually never say "salsa."

We say "hot sauce." And out comes a picante hot sauce. All of the Mexican restaurants serve hot sauce (or vitually all of them).

Salsa, where I come from, is chopped tomatoes, onions, lime juice, chili powder, celantro, etc.

So, even what we call the food evolves.

Thailand's annual GDP growth is, actually, among the lowest in the region and has been for some time now.

Investment money is going elsewhere. Why? Different thread and subject.

If you ask neighboring people what Thailand is like.......you get the answer I presented earlier from many of them: Crazy place....Nuts!

If you ask people from Europe and the USA.......many will say something like, "Thailand.......where is that?"

The fact is that Thailand is not nearly as important worldwide as some people think.

Certainly it is not as important worldwide as Thais think!

Economically, it is a fairly insignificant player in Asia.

Face it.......when it is known, it is known for one thing only........and that is something we can't discuss.

Gerd,

That is just my taste, i think the Thai market would love them. I guess it will all depend on the price, you could try and market them as kids sausages!! I know my kids would love them. Again this is just my opinion....

Seems like a good point.........I assumed the OP was targeting Westerners.

Is your main target Thais? If so, they may like it.

Naam.........Jimmie Dean sausage is great.......sage and molasses and, I forgot, some pepper flakes. It sells in America......huge business now.

There are other brands of Jimmie Dean sausage........check them out on the net.......I have never seen anything like it in Asia.

What will the world think of this on top of the airport being blockaded previously and all the problems people had that could not get back home and to there jobs.

A lawyer I know from Australia had this problem while on his honeymoon in Thailand, as it was he had to beg his boss to give him 1 week off work. Then he was stuck in Thailand, eventually getting a bus south, the price was negotiated for the bus. A few hundred Kilometers out of Bangkok everyone was ordered off the bus, to continue they had to pay again, then this happened once more before reaching there destination.

The current goings on in Thailand have caused very few problems so far, unlike the previous protest.

If you travel to places like Cambodia and Malaysia and China and ask them what they think you get a simple answer: Nuts! or Crazy! or things I can't say here.

I am not trying to spam or generate a heated discussion or whatever..........this is the response I have been getting (for at least four years now).

What I want is what is best for ALL of the people and not a wealthy few.......red, yellow, or whatever color.

The internal rural-urban conflict is seriously hurting Thailand........its economic growth, its reputation in the world.

I am not sure if I can say this, but in my country if you fart the wrong way you are not going to be elected to anything.

This seems to be very different from the situation in Thailand......you can read between the lines.

Chok Dee

Really appreciate the last two posts. Here are the updated "facts" :

Panama: excellent retirement visa program; mountains/oceans)

Cambodia: massive annual GNP growth.......looks like Thailand; friendly people; English spoken widely; more expensive than Thailand but some say less expensive than Thailand; don't want to get sick there but close to Thailand so if it is not an emergency situation you can go to Thailand for medical care; infrastructure improving but long way to go)

Philippines: safe and unsafe areas; beautiful beaches; storm problem; most people speak English; easy visa system

Argentina: beautiful country no doubt; great beef; need to examine retirement visa system to see if it is better than Thailand; not much crime now

Nicaragua: massive poverty

Belize: great lobsters; scuba diving

Mexico: gorgeous coastline overlooking Pacific; great food

Malaysia: heard good around Panang........logical retirement visa option (cost of it?)

Costa Rica: Good things about it: 1. Pensionado required income USD 1000/mo, and not so good - rentista USD 2500/mo--bad part is you have to show money was converted to colons; getting expensive; Bad things about it: No free auto import (duty approx 200 percent value of vehicle; No duty free household goods; duty 100-200 percent for electrical items; Housing costs have doubled in top areas; Now required to join country social security; Armed robbery and carjacking now a daily event; Costa Rica is nice but the benefits are going down at a rapid rate.

Vietnam: long coastline; storm prone; developing rapidly; health care? cost of retirement visa?

Indonesia: visa system is not that easy; Bali expensive; other areas much less expensive; earthquake problem

Ecuador: visa system? cost of living? crime? (one person said too much crime) health care?

The Top 12 countries were France, Switzerland, United States, Luxembourg, Australia, Belgium, Italy, Germany, New Zealand, Denmark, Malta, Sweden.

Of the countries mentioned in posts here, the highest ranking country is Uruguay at # 13.

Bar Malta, the top 12 countries are the source of many of the retirees moving to Thailand (UK missing).

Right...........I think we have a couple of spammers who simply refuse to do something more productive with their lives.

Once again, here is the list of countries we want to focus on with Panama added:

Panama (excellent retirement visa program; mountains/oceans)

Cambodia (massive annual GNP growth.......looks like Thailand; friendly people; English spoken widely; more expensive than Thailand; don't want to get sick there; infrastructure improving but long way to go)

Philippines (safe and unsafe areas; beautiful beaches; storm problem; most people speak English; easy visa system)

Argentina (beautiful country no doubt; great beef; need to examine retirement visa system to see if it is better than Thailand; not much crime now)

Nicaragua (massive poverty)

Belize (great lobsters; scuba diving)

Mexico (gorgeous coastline overlooking Pacific)

Malaysia (heard good around Panang........logical retirement visa option)

Costa Rica (beautiful; getting expensive)

Vietnam (long coastline; storm prone; developing rapidly)

Indonesia (visa system is not that easy; Bali expensive; other areas much less expensive; earthquake problem)

Ecuador (too much crime)

Remember, this list is for pensioners making US$1000 - 1800 per month. There options are limited by income.

Given this, I think it might be productive to see how many of the countries they can realistically live in on this income.........with a lifestyle similar to what they can get in Thailand for the same money.

For pensioners, three things are critical: retirement visa income requirements, cost of living, health facilities. We should focus on these variables.

Nope As a sausage maker myself, they look and sound disgusting!!

Sorry..........maybe after grilling they taste good but they sure do not look good in the picture.

I wish some Westerner would try to duplicate what Jimmie Dean did back in the USA.

How about a simple pork sausage with sage and molasses.

Once again, here is the list of countries we want to focus on:

Argentina (beautiful country no doubt; great beef; need to examine retirement visa system to see if it is better than Thailand; not much crime now)

Nicaragua (massive poverty)

Belize (great lobsters; scuba diving)

Mexico (gorgeous coastline overlooking Pacific)

Malaysia (heard good around Panang........logical retirement visa option)

Philippines (safe and unsafe areas; beautiful beaches; storm problem; most people speak English; easy visa system)

Costa Rica (beautiful; getting expensive)

Cambodia (massive annual GNP growth.......looks like Thailand; friendly people; English spoken widely; more expensive than Thailand; don't want to get sick there; infrastructure improving but long way to go)

Vietnam

Indonesia (visa system is not that easy; Bali expensive; other areas much less expensive; earthquake problem)

Ecuador (too much crime)

Feel free to add something PRODUCTIVE.

That was ten years ago. I was there more recently. I felt quite safe, but only stayed in Buenos Aires. I read the baexpats site occasionally; very little complaints about crime. Compare to Mexico City, now that is an unsafe big city. Argentina does not have a bank account method to qualify for a retirement visa; you need a verifiable income/pension and the required amount (not much) must be imported into the country every year (unlike Thailand). If Argentina had a visa system like Thailand, it would be high on my list.

Not sure I get your distinction between the retirement visa system in Argentina and Thailand.

I am here on a marriage visa..........I must show an income (40K per month) from abroad to remain here.

Others on a different long-stay visa system have to show 800K imported each year from abroad.

It all must be verified and come from abroad...........right?

Sounds just like Argentina.

If so, I wonder what the amounts are.

By the way, I lived in Chile......never crossed the border to Argentina but assume it looks similar.

If so, there are beautiful places in Argentina and the beef is legend.

UPDATE

Argentina (beautiful country no doubt; great beef; need to examine retirement visa system to see if it is better than Thailand; not much crime now)

Nicaragua (massive poverty)

Belize (great lobsters; scuba diving)

Mexico (gorgeous coastline overlooking Pacific)

Malaysia (heard good around Panang........logical retirement visa option)

Philippines (safe and unsafe areas; beautiful beaches; storm problem; most people speak English; easy visa system)

Costa Rica (beautiful; getting expensive)

Cambodia (massive annual GNP growth.......looks like Thailand; friendly people; English spoken widely; more expensive than Thailand; don't want to get sick there; infrastructure improving but long way to go)

Vietnam

Indonesia (visa system is not that easy; Bali expensive; other areas much less expensive; earthquake problem)

Ecuador (too much crime)

Crime is a big problem in Ecuador. Its not that bad in Argentina, obviously depending where you live there.

Argentina (beautiful country)

Nicaragua (massive poverty)

Belize (great lobsters)

Mexico (gorgeous coastline overlooking Pacific)

Malaysia (heard good around Panang........logical retirement visa option)

Philippines (safe and unsafe areas; beautiful beaches; storm problem; most people speak English; easy visa system)

Costa Rica (beautiful; getting expensive)

Cambodia (massive annual GNP growth.......looks like Thailand; friendly people; English spoken widely; more expensive than Thailand; don't want to get sick there; infrastructure improving but long way to go)

Vietnam

Indonesia (visa system is not that easy; Bali expensive; other areas much less expensive; earthquake problem)

Ecuador (too much crime)

As you can see above, I am starting to include my own observations and those of others............I wonder if we can start filling this out in more detail with observations about crime, food, visas, scenary, cost of living, medical system, etc.?

Perhaps we can create a VIABLE EXPAT DESTINATION and NO LONGER VIABLE EXPAT DESTINATION list. Maybe we can start narrowing the list down to a handful of alternatives.........remember, if you have lots of money you can retire anywhere. This is for people who don't have lots of money--pensioners who are having to live off of about US$1000 to 1800 per month:

Let me start (I also suggest we ignore any more silly and useless comments from Naam and is mate):

VIABLE:

Argentina (beautiful country)

Nicaragua (massive poverty)

Belize (great lobsters)

Mexico (gorgeous coastline overlooking Pacific; safe and unsafe areas)

Malaysia (heard good around Panang........logical retirement visa option)

Philippines (safe and unsafe areas; beautiful beaches; storm problem; most people speak English; easy visa system)

Costa Rica (beautiful; getting expensive)

Cambodia (massive annual GNP growth.......looks like Thailand; friendly people; English spoken widely; more expensive than Thailand; don't want to get sick there; infrastructure improving but long way to go)

Vietnam (rapid economic development/growth; long beach front areas)

Indonesia (visa system is not that easy; Bali expensive; other areas much less expensive; earthquake problem)

NO LONGER VIABLE:

Ecuador......why.....too much crime.

Forget my last post.........way too difficult.

Maybe we can simply discuss these countries as viable alternatives........would be nice to hear first hand experiences:

Argentina

Nicaragua

Ecuador

Mexico

Malaysia

Philippines

Costa Rica

Cambodia

Philippines

Vietnam

Indonesia

There actually aren't that many countries in the world for retirees that combine Thailand's relatively low cost of living with relatively easy retirement visa options. Australia, definitely not!!!

Some that come to mind --

Argentina

Nicaragua

Ecuador

Mexico

Malaysia

Philippines

Costa Rica

OK.......thanks for that.......we are expanding alternatives:

New list:

Argentina

Nicaragua

Ecuador

Mexico

Malaysia

Philippines

Costa Rica

Cambodia

Philippines

Vietnam

Can we rank them in terms of three factors:

1) cost of living ( low to high)

2) retirement visa options (easy to difficult)

3) "sanook factor"........fun and relaxed place to be (sanook to not sanook)

Might prove to be productive...........

With 1k/2k USD budget i will restart the thread with the best avail choise, Vietnam. Muslim countries are too different to be safe, Philippine is not safe and with too many hurricanes....

Thanks for the post but some of the assumptions I disagree with.

Philippines has a lower murder rate than Thailand..........my guess is that the same can be said for Vietnam and Malaysia.

Certainly, from my own personal experience, the safest country I have ever lived in was dominated by Islam.

Crime is often related to location within the country.

For example, there are places in both Thailand and the Philippines that are safe.........and places that are not safe.

The tropical storms that surge through the Philippines are an issue........but I think mostly if you live on the eastern side (not totally sure here).

I would not be so quick to dismiss Vietnam and the Philippines as possible alternatives.

I hope the soldiers are OK.

I think "somebody" just made a serious mistake.

I'd suggest Indonesia; anywhere near the coast on the Western side of Java, or perhaps Lombok.

They do have a retirement visa program plus alternatives if you have a local contact / wife / sponsor.

I still have a few years to go, but I plan to spend a few months there this year and travel around a bit.

I also have a friend who retired to Nepal - he's enjoying himself.

Londo

Thanks..........I have never lived in Nepal (did live in India more than once). I never thought of it as an alternative to Thailand.

Surely it must be beautiful in places and much cooler than Southeast Asia.

Indonesia.....once lived in Bali. But you need money to live there and the visa issues are real (as you stated......helps to have a contact, wife, sponsor).

Bali is, of course, not particularly representative of Indonesia. I do know one expat in Thailand who would happily retire in Indonesia.

Lombok: I was there when all hel_l broke lose........Muslims starting fighting Christians and burning stuff (great scuba diving though).

There must be some nice places to live in Indonesia........I am not sure where.

Remember a lot of the expats in Thailand that I am talking about are spoiled (like me).

They want the malls and Western foods and good health care......etc.

I would be concerned about health in both Indonesia and Nepal (especially Nepal).

One thing that can't be denied: Thailand is good for expats in terms of the health facilities it offers.

In fact, IMHO, Thailand is #1 in terms of health care.

That must keep a lot of elderly expats in Thailand when they would rather move out.

There are about one billion BBQ sauce recipes...........here are two from the USA.....very different from each other:

Texas Style Sauce

4 cups ketchup

1/2 cup brown sugar

1 cup vinegar (any kind)

4 tbsp Worcestershire

1 tbsp of brisket rub

1 tsp garlic powder

1 tsp onion powder

1 tbsp liquid smoke

¼ cup molasses

1 tbsp coarse black pepper-More to taste

Carolina Style Mustard Vinegar Sauce

1 cup apple cider vinegar

1/2 cup Yellow mustard

1/4 cup onion finely minced

2 cloves garlic pureed

1/2 teaspoon black pepper

1 tablespoon Worcestershire sauce

1/2 cup brown sugar

1/4 teaspoon cayenne pepper

1/2 teaspoon salt

1/2 teaspoon Tabasco sauce

*also add some pineapple juice to taste

Good Day guys,

A retired destination never mentioned: Australia.

I retired there 10 years ago, and I don't regret it a minute. North of the 30th parrallel, the climate is fantastic, pretropical and further north tropical. On Pacific Ocean beach everyday of the year. The country is well organised, education, health system first class. Very clean, nice and tidy. They have a visa especially for retirees, not too difficult to get if you are financially confortable and still healthy. Even the public servants are kind.

I lived in Thailand and there is no comparison. Of course it's more expensive, but if you can afford it, it is much much better than Thailand. And the Government is stable, no corruption or little.

See ya guys.

Gilou.......thanks for the post..........Australia......interesting. I did not put it on the list because I assumed it was expensive compared the others on the list.

Most expats in Thailand are living on a limited budget........my guess is that it is between US$1000 to US$1800.........not much!

Many came here precisely because Thailand was a good deal (key word is "was") and expat friendly (no more).

I know many Thais that want to leave Thailand and live in Australia.........so, no doubt it is better than living in Thailand on many fronts.

Can low-income people of the type described above live comfortably in Australia?

Miruph......thanks for your post too.........I have never been to Kep (been several times to Sihanoukville). I have to check it out the next time I am in Cambodia. Yes, I am with you on the road.........also airport........things are going to change for the better..........the only question is WHEN?

sihanoukville in cambodia, no sh*t visa requirements as in thailand, lovely beaches, many many foreign owned bars and resturaunts, airport coming soon, major port/harbour, road network linked from from vietnam through (maybe snv) to thailand. if you miss thailand then its only a 5 hour ( 4 hour when the better the road) drive back up to the border.

I think it is clear that if you are on a very limited budget and are being pushed out of Thailand due to immigration policies (and want the beach), Sihanoukville is a viable alternative.

But see other posts in the Southeast Asia section on Sihanoukville.........business seems way down...........still no open airport.........no condo units on the beach (coming but not yet).

The potential is certainly there for it to become the next Pattaya. They key word is "potential."

Now.......no big malls......no big condo units........no big Foodland-like stores...........no Western fast food places.........but many bars and hotels (from low end to high end)......good beaches IMHO if they can do something about raw sewerage dumping into the beach area (surely they will do something about it just like Pattaya did).

A big plus is no visa problem at all......the best system in Asia outside of the Philippines.

Thanks for the post.

Maine --- inexpensive land, great lobster, people mostly speak English!

1k-1.8k USD a month is way too low to have any security blanket in expendable income almost anywhere!

I think I know you.............you play the banjo and live in the backwaters of Arkansas.........right?

Now..........back on planet earth............

In today's New York Times:

Tacos in the Morning? That’s the Routine in Austin (TX) -- article with great photos in audio slide show. (no recipes)

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/10/dining/10united.html

The simplicity of the place is more than intriguing (certainly as a business concept).

The flour-based tortillas look much smaller and thicker than what Kikoman posted.

Why can't somebody open a small taqueria in Pattaya or Bangkok?

Something that does not sell everything.............just a few really good items, freshly made, and not too expensive.