irlguy1 Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 Hi guysThe brother in laws breaker is making a buzzing noise but only when he turns on one of the electric showers. Nothing else in the house causes the buzz. Not even the air con so just wondering if anyone could shed some light on why it's doing this and if it's serious?He can use the shower on cold but as soon as he turns one of them to hot the board starts making noises.?? Any help appreciated Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayned Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 Sounds like a loose connection at the breaker. I'd make sure that all of the connections are properly tightened with the appropriately insulated screwdriver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r136dg Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 IMHO, yes, it could be serious. It could be a faulty breaker being overloaded & needing (but not able) to open/trip. Thin wiring getting hot could be the cause of the mcd buzzing/wanting to open. Like Wayned said, it could also be faulty connections. You & your brother in law have a few things to troubleshoot, but whatever you do, be extremely careful! If in doubt, sub it out (to a professional). Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irlguy1 Posted December 3, 2017 Author Share Posted December 3, 2017 Thanks guys, first thing we checked was loose connections on the board. All are tight so I guess next step is call a professional but they are few and far between in the village [emoji23][emoji23][emoji24][emoji24]Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 Breakers are cheap and easy to replace, a replacement unit would be my first port of call assuming all else is ok. Is it getting hot or emitting any untoward smells? What is the rating of the breaker in question? Many do buzz when on the line of tripping, not a problem in itself. Also, is this something new or has it been doing it forever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bankruatsteve Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 Is that the main breaker or one on a circuit? IE: are both L and N going into the breaker or just a Live? Also, you could, with power off, pull out the wire(s) going into the breaker and check the end for any heat damage (from arcing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irlguy1 Posted December 3, 2017 Author Share Posted December 3, 2017 So it turns out that he has 2.5 cable for the showers. He was told that is fully acceptable by two different "electricians" in the village. Is it imperative that showers are on 4 or is 2.5 used anywhere?There is no smell of burning and no heat anywhere on the board. Its the main fuse board for the entire house. It's only a new problem and the board has been installed for 18 months. Not sure what the rating is. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irlguy1 Posted December 3, 2017 Author Share Posted December 3, 2017 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 Assuming the shower is less than 4.5kW it will be fine on 2.5mm2 cable it should really have a 20A breaker. I'll bet it's on a 32A but if the shower is the only load that's not a major safety issue. If all the connections are good, nothing is getting hot, no smells and the breaker operates on the "Test" button I wouldn't worry about it. Unless it's really annoyingly loud in which case I suspect a replacement is going to be the solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irlguy1 Posted December 4, 2017 Author Share Posted December 4, 2017 Assuming the shower is less than 4.5kW it will be fine on 2.5mm2 cable it should really have a 20A breaker. I'll bet it's on a 32A but if the shower is the only load that's not a major safety issue. If all the connections are good, nothing is getting hot, no smells and the breaker operates on the "Test" button I wouldn't worry about it. Unless it's really annoyingly loud in which case I suspect a replacement is going to be the solution.As far as I know it's 4500 watt. It's a Steibel Eltron. I will check out the wattage when I am back during the week but is 4500 ok on 2.5 or is it borderline? Also what if both showers are running at the same time?Cheers guys.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 30 minutes ago, irlguy1 said: Also what if both showers are running at the same time? Are they on the same breaker, same cable? One 4,500 will be ok on 2.5mm2, running two 4500 on the same bit of 2.5mm2 counts as "unwise". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bankruatsteve Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 27 minutes ago, irlguy1 said: As far as I know it's 4500 watt. It's a Steibel Eltron. I will check out the wattage when I am back during the week but is 4500 ok on 2.5 or is it borderline? Also what if both showers are running at the same time? Cheers guys. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 4500 W is OK for 2.5mm2 cable and a 20 amp breaker. If both showers are on the same circuit (using the same cable) then it would need to separate on different circuits or go to 6mm2 and 32 amp breaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pdavies99 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 A good chance its the insulation within the breaker that is deteriorating, the same issue on street circuit breakers, you hear them buzzing and then eventually bang, and they are replaced. A consequence of cheap made parts! Just buy a new one, not much to buy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irlguy1 Posted December 4, 2017 Author Share Posted December 4, 2017 A good chance its the insulation within the breaker that is deteriorating, the same issue on street circuit breakers, you hear them buzzing and then eventually bang, and they are replaced. A consequence of cheap made parts! Just buy a new one, not much to buy!Is that likely after only 18 months?It wasn't a cheap unit Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 13 minutes ago, irlguy1 said: Is that likely after only 18 months? It wasn't a cheap unit If it was Schneider or ABB (or even Safe-T-Cut) I would agree, but a relative no-name Chinese (or Thai) unit ... I assume it's a buzz as opposed to a fizz, fizzing would indicate something breaking down (and liberate lots of heat and "electrical" smells). With everything electrical here it's worth going with well known names, even the Chinese Tomzn or Chint are respected and known names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irlguy1 Posted December 4, 2017 Author Share Posted December 4, 2017 If it was Schneider or ABB (or even Safe-T-Cut) I would agree, but a relative no-name Chinese (or Thai) unit ... I assume it's a buzz as opposed to a fizz, fizzing would indicate something breaking down (and liberate lots of heat and "electrical" smells). With everything electrical here it's worth going with well known names, even the Chinese Tomzn or Chint are respected and known names.[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]Fair point I sent a video of the noise above can you tell if it's a fizz or a buzz ? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bankruatsteve Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 1 hour ago, irlguy1 said: Fair point I sent a video of the noise above can you tell if it's a fizz or a buzz ? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I re-played your video and I couldn't hear anything - which might be because I can't hear much anyway. Again, if it doesn't smell maybe not worry about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpower Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Possible cause of noisy breaker that's not overheating smoking or showing any signs of bad connection :- Breakers have a fast acting magnetic trip mechanism that uses a core inside a coil to detect high current pulse. On faulty, poorly manufactured or tired old breakers, this mechanism can start buzzing at supply frequency when a load is passed through the breaker. RCBO's have an additional magnetic coil that operates the same fast acting mechanism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavisH Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 If it's an old breaker it may be worth replacing it. Not long after we moved into a secondhand townhouse our breaker blew and caught fire. Fortunately, we were close to it at that time and could extinguish it. I can't imagine if it happened at night time when we were asleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irlguy1 Posted December 4, 2017 Author Share Posted December 4, 2017 If it's an old breaker it may be worth replacing it. Not long after we moved into a secondhand townhouse our breaker blew and caught fire. Fortunately, we were close to it at that time and could extinguish it. I can't imagine if it happened at night time when we were asleep. It's only 18 months oldSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavisH Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 9 minutes ago, irlguy1 said: It's only 18 months old Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Ok, so it's worth getting an electrician to look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Hmmm, I admit that I hadn't listened to the audio previously (I thought the video was just to show what you had, my bad). Does it do that when either shower is operating or just one in particular? How about with both on? Certainly an "interesting" sound and if it were mine I would be replacing it even if it's not overheating or smelling. I'd like a second opinion, anyone else want to comment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irlguy1 Posted December 5, 2017 Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 Hmmm, I admit that I hadn't listened to the audio previously (I thought the video was just to show what you had, my bad). Does it do that when either shower is operating or just one in particular? How about with both on? Certainly an "interesting" sound and if it were mine I would be replacing it even if it's not overheating or smelling. I'd like a second opinion, anyone else want to comment? It does it when either shower is on and when both are on but not with anything else. All other heavy load items like aircon or microwave etc have no issues. The showers are connected separately so I got no idea what's going on really [emoji848] When you say replace, do you mean the entire board ?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r136dg Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 13 hours ago, bankruatsteve said: I re-played your video and I couldn't hear anything My partially good ear couldn't hear much either. You have a 63amp main RCBO followed by a 10amp mcb. Can't see what size mcb's after that. Elaborating on what's been said by others; Answer these questions & your troubleshooting should be complete. Is Gsafe a good reputable brand? I won't comment on that. What size breaker/breakers are the showers pulling off of? Are both showers pulling off the same breaker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 8 minutes ago, irlguy1 said: When you say replace, do you mean the entire board ? Can you post a photo of the board with the lid off so we can see what mountings the breakers use. You should be able to get branded (ABB or Schneider) units that slot right in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irlguy1 Posted December 5, 2017 Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 Can you post a photo of the board with the lid off so we can see what mountings the breakers use. You should be able to get branded (ABB or Schneider) units that slot right in.Ah ok you mean just replace the breakers not the entire board?I am away for a few weeks and their is nobody there that knows how to take or send photos on a phone [emoji13][emoji13]I will see if they can get some kids in to take a photo [emoji23]Is it normal for two breakers connected to two different showers to both fail while everything else is fine?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irlguy1 Posted December 5, 2017 Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 As far as I know this is the model and types parts but not sure if thats of use to anyone.https://globalhouse.co.th/product/detail/8859042850126/619http://www.ginolr.com/product-152691-%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%A1%E0%B8%99%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%8B%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%A3%E0%B9%8C%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%95%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%81%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%A3%E0%B9%8C%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%94%E0%B8%B9%E0%B8%94.html'>http://www.ginolr.com/product-152691-%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%A1%E0%B8%99%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%8B%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%A3%E0%B9%8C%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%95%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%81%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%A3%E0%B9%8C%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%94%E0%B8%B9%E0%B8%94.htmlhttp://www.ginolr.com/product-152691-%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%A1%E0%B8%99%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%8B%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%A3%E0%B9%8C%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%95%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%81%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%A3%E0%B9%8C%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%94%E0%B8%B9%E0%B8%94.htmlSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 That ginolr link seems to be a drop-in replacement http://www.ginolr.com/product-152691-เมนเซอร์กิตเบรกเกอร์กันดูด.html You'll have to call for a price, it may actually be cheaper to buy a complete unit from Global and use it for spares. You'll need a man to do it for you as it's the incoming breaker. Not a DIY job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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