Weird new requirements for multi-entry tourist visa in Sydney

[konisaan]

For the multi-entry visa they are now asking for 3 copies of your entry and departure ticket for your second entry/departure!

 

Also asking for 3 copies (including the original) of your bank balance showing sufficient funds.

 

I've always provided one copy of the latter although I suspect nobody even checks it... As for the air ticket?? That is ridiculous. The whole point of the ME visa is for people who are coming and going on a unplanned basis. I have been flying one way for the last 10 years and have no plan to change that. If someone actually tried to enforce this, I suppose I would have to buy a fully refundable return air ticket just to please them and cancel it once the visa was granted.

[JackThompson]

I think you would need 3 additional refundable or throwaway tickets (1st out, 2nd in, 2nd out) - unless you actually had fixed-date travel-plans, that far into the future.

 

It would appear that this consulate must now provide the applications + docs to an additional "higher authority" (hence, 3 copies) - and that this authority has added the requirement for the 2nd set of in/out tickets. 

 

The end-result is harmful to Thai businesses / families - but this harm doesn't seem to be a consideration of those determined to make Visas and Extensions more difficult to obtain for people from wealthier nations, who are coming to spend their foreign-sourced funds into the Thai economy.

[ubonjoe]

12 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

It would appear that this consulate must now provide the applications + docs to an additional "higher authority" (hence, 3 copies) - and that this authority has added the requirement for the 2nd set of in/out tickets. 

Sydney is an official Thai consulate. No need for them to send the document to a higher autority.

The 3 sets is for a application form B for those from certain countries.

From website: https://thaiconsulatesydney.org/en/visas

Quote

• Passport or travel document with a minimum validity of 6 months, and copy
• Visa application form, fully completed
• Recent passport-sized photograph (3.5 x 4.5 cm) of the applicant
• For non-Australian or non-resident applicant, proof of an Australian Electronic Visa
• Copy of an airline ticket indicating the date of arrival to and departure from Thailand
• Evidence of adequate finances (THB 20,000 per person, or THB 40,000 per family)
  • For multiple entries, a certified bank’s letter of balance or official bank statement showing recent balance of no less than THB 200,000
• Confirmed reservation of accommodation in Thailand

 

[konisaan]

Has anybody experienced the return airfare proof requirement in practice?

 

It's bureaucracy gone mad. They have the right to reject your visa application and they expect you to purchase a return airfare in advance?

[ubonjoe]

It does not have to be a return ticket. All that is needed is ticket out of Thailand. That could be a one way ticket to any where from any airport here. Many people have used a one way ticket to a nearby country.

[konisaan]

8 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It does not have to be a return ticket. All that is needed is ticket out of Thailand. That could be a one way ticket to any where from any airport here. Many people have used a one way ticket to a nearby country.

So have you ever been asked to prove you have a flight leaving the country?

 

What are they going to say if you plan to make a land crossing?

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, konisaan said:

So have you ever been asked to prove you have a flight leaving the country?

It has been a long time since I got visa. But back when I did I was never asked for one either in or out.

 

You find one way tickets to nearby countries for as little as 1000 baht by purchasing them in advance. Check Air Asia to Kuala Lumpur.

6 minutes ago, konisaan said:

What are they going to say if you plan to make a land crossing?

Some embassies and consulates might accept a bus or train ticket out.

[ubonjoe]

A post suggesting illegal activity has been removed.

[kmw]

HI, I also posted about this yesterday, it seems the embassy in canberrra is still using the old forms, the sydney consulates new requirements are looking like a nightmare,  as with my previous 3 back to back metv all I had was a one way flight into thailand, and didnt even have to give an itinerary, 

 

also I make my 60 day in/out via land crossing, wondering if they will accept "I will drive from chiang mai to mae sai on xxx date"???

 

 

Edited December 18, 2017 by kmw

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Sydney is an official Thai consulate. No need for them to send the document to a higher autority.

The 3 sets is for a application form B for those from certain countries.

From website: https://thaiconsulatesydney.org/en/visas

 

I think the OP was referring to this section of the Sydney form (their caps):

...

ADDITIONAL DOCUMENTS REQUIREMENTS FOR MULTIPLE ENTRY TOURIST VISA

8) - 3 Photocopies of ROUND TRIP AIRLINE TICKET or TRAVEL ITINERARY to Thailand of your Second ENTRY and Second DEPARTURE and

9) - 3 Photocopies of RECENT BANK'S STATEMENT (1 original and 2 copies) showing transaction with current balance no less than $8,000 AUD

I don't know why they want 3 copies of each, if not to submit somewhere else (MFA Bangkok?).  But looks like you can use an "itinerary" vs buying another 2 throw-away tickets for the 2nd in/out, which is good news.

[HeavyHands]

3 hours ago, konisaan said:

So have you ever been asked to prove you have a flight leaving the country?

 

What are they going to say if you plan to make a land crossing?

I have applied & received METV 3 times in Melbourne each with no onward flights required, just arrival details & a Visa card statement with sufficient credit. This is a troubling development. 

[ubonjoe]

16 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I think the OP was referring to this section of the Sydney form (their caps):

I think that may an error since it does not show it on the webpage I quoted.

There website is under construction. For a few months all they had on it was the application forms

The embassy in Canberra does not mention 3 copies or tickets for the 2nd entry on their website.

Easy solution is to contact them about it.

[Laza 45]

I have always had to supply 3 copies of my visa applications... every page signed.. it used to be by a notary public (expensive).. but last time they would accept a Justice of the Peace signing... (free).. I just checked the South Australia Thai visa website.. they say that there have been changes to OA applications.. but no details... I have requested the new requirements.. I will post here when I hear back from them.. 

[blubb]

5 hours ago, JackThompson said:

The end-result is harmful to Thai businesses / families - but this harm doesn't seem to be a consideration of those determined to make Visas and Extensions more difficult to obtain for people from wealthier nations, who are coming to spend their foreign-sourced funds into the Thai economy.

 

... on the other side, if someone is able to spend 6 month in another country (without working) he/she must be rich and don't care.

 

Else if you're married you're  able to get a 1 year married visa, for a business owner, get your 1 or 2 Year Non-B, if you're retired get the Non-O  so what is the problem?       

   

[1337markus]

ubonjoe. You learn something everyday re entry permits. Just had some extra work come my way outside of Thailand so instead of paying for many single re entry permits ( expensive) I inquire about a multi entry permit. Logic is buy it tomorrow when first used the year starts; no! Can only buy it with a the yearly extension that is March 6th next year. So I have to buy 2 single permits as I wait for that magic number of 45 days when the extension is due. Flexibility is the key to indecision.

[kmw]

1 hour ago, HeavyHands said:

I have applied & received METV 3 times in Melbourne each with no onward flights required, just arrival details & a Visa card statement with sufficient credit. This is a troubling development. 

same with me, but with the syd consulate, just arrival details, bank statment and forms with photo, i didnt even need to provide them my one way flight into thailand.

[JackThompson]

2 minutes ago, blubb said:

... on the other side, if someone is able to spend 6 month in another country (without working) he/she must be rich and don't care.

 

Else if you're married you're  able to get a 1 year married visa, for a business owner, get your 1 or 2 Year Non-B, if you're retired get the Non-O  so what is the problem?         

The problem are the majority of potential foreign-capital spenders - all the other cases: Under 50, Not married to a Thai, and No Thai-business or job - but financially-independent, even if not "rich."    It is a misnomer, given today's digital-economy, that anyone not tied to "working a job" cannot have continual income without being "rich."

 

It is specifically those who have an independent income-stream, but who are not "rich," who are a perfect-match for Thailand, given Thailand's moderate cost-of-living with relatively high level of development.  Those with an independent-income, but who are "barely scraping by," would opt for a cheaper alternative, such as Cambodia or Latin America.

[blubb]

15 hours ago, JackThompson said:

The problem are the majority of potential foreign-capital spenders - all the other cases: Under 50, Not married to a Thai, and No Thai-business or job - but financially-independent, even if not "rich."    It is a misnomer, given today's digital-economy, that anyone not tied to "working a job" cannot have continual income without being "rich."

 

It is specifically those who have an independent income-stream, but who are not "rich," who are a perfect-match for Thailand, given Thailand's moderate cost-of-living with relatively high level of development.  Those with an independent-income, but who are "barely scraping by," would opt for a cheaper alternative, such as Cambodia or Latin America.

 

Financially independent? If you're able to deposit 100M Bath yes, but than you're rich, if you parents are rich and they support your permanent holiday, yes, but this doesn't happen anymore. If you lucky, you've sold you business or idea and now you have the luxury a live without working.

Cool but than you're not in Thailand :) Properly the only exception here, if you're Angelina Julie and you get from Brat Pit a monthly salary being his (EX)-Wife :) 

 

If you have found a possibility doing nothing and earn money please share, i bet this would be interesting for everyone.    

        

  

[JackThompson]

52 minutes ago, blubb said:

Financially independent? If you're able to deposit 100M Bath yes, but than you're rich, if you parents are rich and they support your permanent holiday, yes, but this doesn't happen anymore. If you lucky, you've sold you business or idea and now you have the luxury a live without working.

Cool but than you're not in Thailand :) Properly the only exception here, if you're Angelina Julie and you get from Brat Pit a monthly salary being his (EX)-Wife :) 

 

If you have found a possibility doing nothing and earn money please share, i bet this would be interesting for everyone.    

If you can deposit only 10M Baht, there is an extension based on investments available.

 

But I was thinking of the millions who now earn a living from owning an online business.  They weren't born-rich or married into money nor have become rich (yet) - they just had an idea they were able to realize due to the digital-economy removing the up-front capital barriers to entrepreneurship which exist in the "brick and mortar" economy.  Once the business is up/running/staffed (minimally - the software/website does much of the work, in many cases), you are good to go.

 

There are also the millions more who do some sort of 'work' online - technically illegal in Thailand, due to pre-internet labor-laws, but would be a boon to the Thai economy if a visa-option were provided.

Edited December 19, 2017 by JackThompson

[blubb]

23 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

There are also the millions more who do some sort of 'work' online - technically illegal in Thailand, due to pre-internet labor-laws, but would be a boon to the Thai economy if a visa-option were provided.

 

Onlinework in Thailand, nothing prevent you from registering you business in Thailand, if you start your business in your home country, you need also to register it, the only advantage is you do not need any permission to stay and you pay properly less tax :) 

 

If you register your online business in Thailand, you will get also the permission to stay. You pay into health insurance, tax system, you do not need anyone the expensive foreign health insurance, so nothing you mention is 'technically illegal' :)  

 

Boosting the Thai economy would be easy, the Gov just should enforce the rule after being a tourist for 180 Days / Year in the Kingdom you have to leave the Kingdom, else you are handled as a residence and pay 25% income tax from you income/savings. 

  

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, blubb said:

 

Onlinework in Thailand, nothing prevent you from registering you business in Thailand, if you start your business in your home country, you need also to register it, the only advantage is you do not need any permission to stay and you pay properly less tax :) 

 

If you register your online business in Thailand, you will get also the permission to stay. You pay into health insurance, tax system, you do not need anyone the expensive foreign health insurance, so nothing you mention is 'technically illegal' :)  

 

Boosting the Thai economy would be easy, the Gov just should enforce the rule after being a tourist for 180 Days / Year in the Kingdom you have to leave the Kingdom, else you are handled as a residence and pay 25% income tax from you income/savings. 

  

One's business can be registered in many places, regardless of citizenship.  Thailand has not made themselves a good option for smaller online businesses owned by non-Thais.  Much better options exist in the Brit Virgin Islands, Hong Kong, Singapore, Seychelles, etc.

 

An Internet-based business does not require 2M Baht in up-front capital + 4 full-time employees, as is required in Thailand to acquire a work-permit and Visa.  Nor does it require sacrificing 33% of gross-receipts, ala the "Iglu" option, for billing customers/clients (which makes most businesses uncompetitive in the global marketplace). 

 

The Internet has made it possible for people to start businesses who do not have inherited-money, or "the right connections," or who must have worked good-paying jobs for years to save the starting-capital.  Ideas + hard-work + a very little money, and you are in-business.

 

And if one doesn't have a workable idea, they can work for someone who does, anywhere in the world - just not a Thai, without a work-permit - so not competing with Thais for jobs, any more than if they were doing the same thing from Cambodia or Brazil. 

 

A visa-solution for those working for foreign-clients could include a required tax-payment on a minimum income - though Thai income-taxes for those in the income-range I am referring to, would be far less than 25% of net.

[blubb]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

An Internet-based business does not require 2M Baht in up-front capital + 4 full-time employees, as is required in Thailand to acquire a work-permit and Visa.  Nor does it require sacrificing 33% of gross-receipts, ala the "Iglu" option, for billing customers/clients (which makes most businesses uncompetitive in the global marketplace). 

 

The Internet has made it possible for people to start businesses who do not have inherited-money, or "the right connections," or who must have worked good-paying jobs for years to save the starting-capital.  Ideas + hard-work + a very little money, and you are in-business.

 

And if one doesn't have a workable idea, they can work for someone who does, anywhere in the world - just not a Thai, without a work-permit - so not competing with Thais for jobs, any more than if they were doing the same thing from Cambodia or Brazil. 

 

A visa-solution for those working for foreign-clients could include a required tax-payment on a minimum income - though Thai income-taxes for those in the income-range I am referring to, would be far less than 25% of net.

 

Again, nothing against a one time multiple entry visa's a year, the Thai handling is very fair. If you are a tourist, you're the tourist, have a lot of fun while your holiday and your stay here. If you work in some way in Thailand, open your company. Else stay away. Isn't it easy?   

 

What you are telling us above it is called unfair competition and tax abusing and a lot more. Building up a solid permanent income takes years

of saving up salaries, building relationships with other businesses much as it possible or great ideas and lot of abdication in your home-country and a lot luck.   

 

Now someone found out, the COL in Thailand are bit lower compared to the homecountry.  

 

Last not least, you do not pay any taxes, nor you have any insurance nor any coverage for retirement. Who will pay your cost of living in you (home-)country if your internet idea doesn't work anymore? Who will pay the hospital bill in case you have an accident or you get sick?

Last not least if your internet idea never worked healthy and you're passing a age which you can't/won't work anymore, who will pay your the cost of living? Biological it is called parasitism.

 

 

 

 

     

 

[FritsSikkink]

3 hours ago, JackThompson said:

One's business can be registered in many places, regardless of citizenship.  Thailand has not made themselves a good option for smaller online businesses owned by non-Thais.  Much better options exist in the Brit Virgin Islands, Hong Kong, Singapore, Seychelles, etc.

 

An Internet-based business does not require 2M Baht in up-front capital + 4 full-time employees, as is required in Thailand to acquire a work-permit and Visa.  Nor does it require sacrificing 33% of gross-receipts, ala the "Iglu" option, for billing customers/clients (which makes most businesses uncompetitive in the global marketplace). 

 

The Internet has made it possible for people to start businesses who do not have inherited-money, or "the right connections," or who must have worked good-paying jobs for years to save the starting-capital.  Ideas + hard-work + a very little money, and you are in-business.

 

And if one doesn't have a workable idea, they can work for someone who does, anywhere in the world - just not a Thai, without a work-permit - so not competing with Thais for jobs, any more than if they were doing the same thing from Cambodia or Brazil. 

 

A visa-solution for those working for foreign-clients could include a required tax-payment on a minimum income - though Thai income-taxes for those in the income-range I am referring to, would be far less than 25% of net.

The real big problem for these businesses (and their owner) is they hardly make any money so they can't afford to setup a proper business in Thailand. They also think they are big contributors to the local community while they actually aren't.

[konisaan]

I made the application today at the Sydney consulate. Read here for the outcome:

 

 

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, blubb said:

What you are telling us above it is called unfair competition and tax abusing and a lot more.

As a US-Citizen, I must pay taxes to keep my passport, so I don't get off scot-free.  I'd rather pay taxes here in Thailand, but the tax-treaty won't offset the regressive lower-income US-taxes.

 

OTOH, corporations and the very-wealthy have Billions in legal offshore tax-havens.  When something is done about them, I am open to discussing the "little people" managing to avoid being taxed to the point that they can never get anything off the ground.  

 

2 hours ago, blubb said:

Building up a solid permanent income takes years

of saving up salaries, building relationships with other businesses much as it possible or great ideas and lot of abdication in your home-country and a lot luck.  

Once upon a time, that was true, and most people could never start their own business.  But they also had much better job-opportunities.  Long-term job security was wiped out for my generation (about when I hit 30) and after, so it is hard to relate to that notion.

 

Working "in my home country" would decrease my opportunities and savings.  Granted, I could save more living in Central America (where I got my business off the ground) or in Cambodia.  But there comes a time to reap some benefits from an increased income, and enjoy a better standard-of-living - found in Thailand.

 

2 hours ago, blubb said:

Last not least, you do not pay any taxes, nor you have any insurance nor any coverage for retirement. Who will pay your cost of living in you (home-)country if your internet idea doesn't work anymore? Who will pay the hospital bill in case you have an accident or you get sick?

See above on taxes.  I cannot ever dream of affording health-care in my passport-country, other than the "handout" sort of low-quality care you get after they have taken your meager savings.  Most medical bankruptcies involve people with so-called "insurance" - so they wipe you out as soon as something more than a flu hits.  I can afford good heath-insurance here, thank goodness.

 

As to the internet-gig "not working out" - well, that's no different than losing a job - happens every time a company in my home-country finds cheaper workers by importing them or exporting the business.  Back there, you find another job quick, or you are quickly homeless.  That's the American system, unless you had children you could not afford (I didn't), and get rewarded with a safety-net for being reckless, or foolishly believing in the American Dream - depending on how you look at it.

 

In Thialand I could go awhile on my savings, as I pivoted to the next opportunity - or even take up teaching, if no other options.  It's nice to have some "slack" in the equation, absent crushing overhead-costs for food, transport, and housing.

 

--------------

If someone proposes bringing back protective tariffs, citizen-only-hiring, restrictive-immigration policies - so that people where I am from could have good-wages and pensions again - I'm all ears.  But big-business and my govt collaborated to destroy all that.  "Globalization" is not a law of physics - it was a calculated set of enacted policies. 

 

Many would happily put in their 20-years and begin collecting their pensions and starting businesses - as did the baby-boomers, thanks to the patriotic policies of their WWII parents.  Unfortunately, when they took the reigns, they made sure we didn't get those opportunities, so this is our best chance for a decent life.

[atecom]

On 12/19/2017 at 8:44 PM, konisaan said:

I made the application today at the Sydney consulate. Read here for the outcome:

 

 

How about for the proof of accommodation spanning the time in Thailand they seem to have? I was planning on renting a hotel for a week or two, while finding an apartment, then renting the apartment. Do I need to book confirmed accommodation for the entire time (6 Months) then cancel? I sure hope there are other ways.

[JackThompson]

12 minutes ago, atecom said:

How about for the proof of accommodation spanning the time in Thailand they seem to have? I was planning on renting a hotel for a week or two, while finding an apartment, then renting the apartment. Do I need to book confirmed accommodation for the entire time (6 Months) then cancel? I sure hope there are other ways.

The Visa has an "enter before" date 6 mo after date of application - but you don't get 6-months solid upon entry - just 60-days per entry (extendable by 30 more). 

 

You are not expected to have a residence booked for 6 months - or even 60-days - since your first visit using the visa might only be for a week.

 

If you have proof of a hotel booked for a week or two, that should suffice to meet this requirement.

[atecom]

19 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The Visa has an "enter before" date 6 mo after date of application - but you don't get 6-months solid upon entry - just 60-days per entry (extendable by 30 more). 

 

You are not expected to have a residence booked for 6 months - or even 60-days - since your first visit using the visa might only be for a week.

 

If you have proof of a hotel booked for a week or two, that should suffice to meet this requirement.

Ahh right, Im not sure why, but for some reason the rules of the Visa dates never clicked for me till I read your post here. I knew I had to leave the country (Or at least border run) every 60 days, but I always looked at the 6 months after application as a 'visa expiry' date (As in absolutely cannot stay in Thailand past this date), rather than an 'enter by' date. So in theory I could enter the country the day before my enter by date is finished and stay for a final 60 days (or 90 if I get an extension)?

 

I think it's a lot more clear if so. Thanks!!

[JackThompson]

20 minutes ago, atecom said:

Ahh right, Im not sure why, but for some reason the rules of the Visa dates never clicked for me till I read your post here. I knew I had to leave the country (Or at least border run) every 60 days, but I always looked at the 6 months after application as a 'visa expiry' date (As in absolutely cannot stay in Thailand past this date), rather than an 'enter by' date. So in theory I could enter the country the day before my enter by date is finished and stay for a final 60 days (or 90 if I get an extension)?

 

I think it's a lot more clear if so. Thanks!!

Yes, some get close to 9-months of use out of the visa, by entering right before the "enter before" date, then extending that last entry.

[BritTim]

On 12/19/2017 at 6:42 PM, JackThompson said:

If someone proposes bringing back protective tariffs, citizen-only-hiring, restrictive-immigration policies - so that people where I am from could have good-wages and pensions again

I gave you a like for your post overall, but I strongly disagree with this. Free markets (and that does include free trade and free movement of labor) does mostly benefit business and the wealthy. However, it does not overall hurt those lower down the chain. There are swings and balances there. In fact, the way to help those who are negatively affected is by intelligent tax policies (expecting those who benefit from open markets to contribute to programs that help those impacted by free market policies). Meanwhile, protectionism usually damages the economy in the long run which ultimately hurts everyone, not just the rich.